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[BreezyLimbo]

Not really the same kind of treason tho. Tarly's a dang racist, and Olenna committed race treason by bringing over foreign savages.

That's true

Tarly cares more that his women won't be attacked by those savage dothraki than he does about some old hag who wanted to help them.

 

[The Artisan]

That's true

Tarly cares more that his women won't be attacked by those savage dothraki than he does about some old hag who wanted to help them.

Dany wouldn't let them do that and I think Olenna being on her side would work in that favor.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Dany wouldn't let them do that and I think Olenna being on her side would work in that favor.

you sure about that

you reallllly sure dany would be able to leash her dothraki, that they would all be good poster boys

 

[Brakke]

Racism means you don't even have room in your heart for the Good Ones.

You saw him with Gilly. She dressed up nice and talked well but ain't shit.

 

[Fuzzy]

Unlike Cersei, who definitely did not commit treason by murdering the queen.

That was just a tragic accident and Cersei was just lucky to be late for her trial.

 

[CloudWolf]

That was just a tragic accident and Cersei was just lucky to be late for her trial.

It's so weird how Cersei claims it was an accident, when one episode earlier Hot Pie tells Arya that 'everyone knows' that Cersei blew it up.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

It's so weird how Cersei claims it was an accident, when one episode earlier Hot Pie tells Arya that 'everyone knows' that Cersei blew it up.

Well everyone knows that Jamie fucks his sister and nobody does anything

it's just one of those things.

 

[CloudWolf]

you don't understand, jon said he died for the watch so that's the end of the matter.

Interestingly, that's never mentioned when trying to recruit people for his cause as well. You'd think he would mention it to Dany or that maybe Dany heard it from Melisandre, but nope. Why is no one acknowledging this actual miracle happening?

It's not like he doesn't have proof or anything, he has around 30 stab wounds on his body.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Interestingly, that's never mentioned when trying to recruit people for his cause as well. You'd think he would mention it to Dany or that maybe Dany heard it from Melisandre, but nope. Why is no one acknowledging this actual miracle happening?

because they'll look at him funny

Dany will probably be offended that Jon DARE be special in the presence of the breaker of plot, and behead him then and there.

 

[duckroll]

It's so weird how Cersei claims it was an accident, when one episode earlier Hot Pie tells Arya that 'everyone knows' that Cersei blew it up.

I don't think it's weird. I think it is one of the few interesting characterizations of Cersei left in the show which isn't dumb. She has always been in denial all her life. She fears her own shadow and is very paranoid and insecure. So when she does something like this, even if everyone knows it is her, and it is totally brazen, she won't say she did. She won't admit she did it. She can't. It has to be the way she imagines it - an amazing plan where it looks like a tragic accident and she is the rightful queen. Not an usurper.

 

[curiouscharles]

Not an usurper.

sorry, totally off-topic / totally tangential here, but it's "a usurper" not "an usurper".

i know we're told "a followed by a word starting with a vowel turns into an", but this is a classic example of one of the exceptions to this rule [regardless of origin of the English you speak].

seen this three times on GAF this week, needs to freaking stop [hurts my brain trying to say these mistakes in my head].

*for example, you'd never say "an university", or "an uniform"

**but you WOULD say "an uncle" - which is because "uncle" is a monopthong [single sound vowel], whereas "university" or "usurper" begin with the "ew" or dipthong [two sound vowel] version of the vowel.

#themoreyouknow

 

[Joni]

Interestingly, that's never mentioned when trying to recruit people for his cause as well. You'd think he would mention it to Dany or that maybe Dany heard it from Melisandre, but nope. Why is no one acknowledging this actual miracle happening?

Davos did mention it. And he was immediately side-eyed by Jon. And both Dany/Tyrion noticed it.

 

[duckroll]

sorry, totally off-topic / totally tangential here, but it's "a usurper" not "an usurper".

i know we're told "a followed by a word starting with a vowel turns into an", but this is a classic example of one of the exceptions to this rule [regardless of origin of the English you speak].

seen this three times on GAF this week, needs to freaking stop [hurts my brain trying to say these mistakes in my head].

*for example, you'd never say "an university", or "an uniform"

**but you WOULD say "an uncle" - which is because "uncle" is a monopthong [single sound vowel], whereas "university" or "usurper" begin with the "ew" or dipthong [two sound vowel] version of the vowel.

#themoreyouknow

You know, it's funny because I actually thought that while typing it because it sounded wrong, but I figured no one would care. I was wrong. I should have thought harder before hitting Submit Reply.

 

[devilhawk]

This excuse is only chill to lawyer-ass "boning down with wildlings is fine, actually" pedant Sam maybe.

Presumably the northerners are letting the desertion slide because he got rid of Bolton for them, they've been desperate for leadership, and he's basically implementing the policy a Lord Commander would as King in the North anyway.

It's the same as everything else. Oaths, birthrights, marriage vows, whatever only matter if someone's interested in enforcing them.

Exactly. Plus, in the first few episodes this year, Jon is still effectively acting as Lord Commander anyways.

 

[88random]

sorry, totally off-topic / totally tangential here, but it's "a usurper" not "an usurper".

i know we're told "a followed by a word starting with a vowel turns into an", but this is a classic example of one of the exceptions to this rule [regardless of origin of the English you speak].

seen this three times on GAF this week, needs to freaking stop [hurts my brain trying to say these mistakes in my head].

*for example, you'd never say "an university", or "an uniform"

**but you WOULD say "an uncle" - which is because "uncle" is a monopthong [single sound vowel], whereas "university" or "usurper" begin with the "ew" or dipthong [two sound vowel] version of the vowel.

#themoreyouknow

Thanks for this.

But it's still less annoying than could of/would of/should of.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

i say oo-surper so duckroll is kind of right to me

 

[ClosingADoor]

Interestingly, that's never mentioned when trying to recruit people for his cause as well. You'd think he would mention it to Dany or that maybe Dany heard it from Melisandre, but nope. Why is no one acknowledging this actual miracle happening?

It's not like he doesn't have proof or anything, he has around 30 stab wounds on his body.

"I want you to help me defeat the dead, who have risen again. Btw, I was also dead and have risen again."

Not a good sales pitch.

 

[Human Trashcan]

i say oo-surper so duckroll is kind of right to me

You're pronouncing it wrong though not to be all prescriptive but it start with the "you" sound in all regional accents as far as I'm aware

 

[Speevy]

Euron is the "oo"-surper tonight.

 

[_Ryo_]

Ollena told Jamie that she killed Joffery. Do you think that will absolve Tyrion of that particular crime in Jamie's eyes?

If so, with this fact in mind, along with the potential future Cersi/Euron romance, will it FINALLY bring Jamie back to where his plot and character is at in the novels?

The latest episode didnt show much of a reaction to Ollena's confession, other than anger. It didnt show confusion on Jamie's part, it feels kind of like a failure of writing to not explore this confession further.

For example, why did Jamie not ask if his brother and Sansa helped her kill his son?

Jamie always was the only one that trutly loved his brother, and was the only one who could challenge his love for Cersi and he would/could take sides over of her, as he did with helping Tyrion escape from his cell.

Would it not be a big deal to him that his brother was actually innocent all along?

That it would mean he did in fact not lose all of his family forever (again losing Cersi to Euron) and has a chance to repair his relationship with Tyrion and right the wrongs of Cerci?

I absolutely beleive that Ollena would havwtold him the truth in that moment. She had nothing to lose and wanted to hurt Jamie as well as she could. Telling Jamie that he aspires to kill his brother for essentially being framed could ruin him.

It boggles the mind as why Jamie didnt ask for more information where it was extremely relevant to the war,and to his family.

 

[FStubbs]

Racism means you don't even have room in your heart for the Good Ones.

You saw him with Gilly. She dressed up nice and talked well but ain't shit.

I forgot about that. That was a good indicator that he would switch sides for the Dothraki who are even more foreign than the wildlings.

Ollena told Jamie that she killed Joffery. Do you think that will absolve Tyrion of that particular crime in Jamie's eyes?

If so, with this fact in mind, along with the potential future Cersi/Euron romance, will it FINALLY bring Jamie back to where his plot and character is at in the novels

The latest episode didnt show much of a reaction to Ollena's confession, other than anger. It didnt show confusion on Jamie's part, it feels kind of like a failure of writing to mot explore this confession furture. Why did Jamie not ask if his brother and Sansa helped her kill his son? Jamie always was the only one that trutly loved his brother, and could challenge his love for his sister and he would take sides over with. Would it not be a big deal that his brother was innocent? That he did infact not lose all of his family and has a chance to repair his relationship with Tyrion and right the wrongs of Cerci? I absolutely beleive Ollena would havw told him the truth there. It boggles the mind why Jamie didnt ask for more information where it was extremely relevant to the war,and his family.

He didn't need to. I think Olenna admitting she did it made it clear to him that Tyrion and Sansa weren't involved, and Tyrion was telling him the truth.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I don't think it's weird. I think it is one of the few interesting characterizations of Cersei left in the show which isn't dumb. She has always been in denial all her life. She fears her own shadow and is very paranoid and insecure. So when she does something like this, even if everyone knows it is her, and it is totally brazen, she won't say she did. She won't admit she did it. She can't. It has to be the way she imagines it - an amazing plan where it looks like a tragic accident and she is the rightful queen. Not an usurper.

even if it was an accident why would she be queen? wouldnt gendry have a stronger claim?

 

[_Ryo_]

I forgot about that. That was a good indicator that he would switch sides for the Dothraki who are even more foreign than the wildlings.



He didn't need to. I think Olenna admitting she did it made it clear to him that Tyrion and Sansa weren't involved, and Tyrion was telling him the truth.

Okay,so if Jamie did indeed take Ollena's confession as an admission of Tyrion's and Sansa's innocence, do you think that Jamie will still want to kill Tyrion for Cersi, knowing that Tyrion was innocent all along?

His love for Tyrion and vis versa was the only genuinely healthy relationship both had ever had. With Cersi and Euron potentially starting a romance that puts a dent in the very last relationship he still has with his family

Will he now tell Cersi, and will her obvious insistence that Olenna was lying make him finally realize that she is insane and unhealthy for him and allow him to become more recgonizable as the character we observe in the novels? 

If the show doesn't explore Ollena's confession further, I would personally feel that it would be a huge failure on part of the plot by the writers. Why write to make Ollena confess if there are no consequences to develop Jamie's character and plot in response to such a huge revelation?

 

[SteveWD40]

Ollena told Jamie that she killed Joffery. Do you think that will absolve Tyrion of that particular crime in Jamie's eyes? .

I was under the impression he knew it wasn't Tyrion (everyone hated the kid), hence him helping the escape. It was the murder of Tywin he hates Tyrion for, which Jamie can't forgive, since he actually loved his father in some way.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I feel like by the time r+l=j is revealed to all of Westeros, there will be such a little amount of significant people around still alive to react to it.

lol I totally agree with this. The longer this secret has been and is being kept under wraps the less effective the actual reveal is becoming. They really need to get it out of the way in the first half here.

 

[thefro]

I don't think there's enough episodes left for dany to learn/believe/accept that Jon is the son of rhaegar and potentially has a better claim than her

So my guess is she either never finds out and it doesn't end up mattering much, or it's the piece of information that pushes her into mad queen/villain territory. That seems unlikely with these writers so unfortunately it's probably the former.

Jon can prove he's Targ by not getting roasted/eaten by Dany's dragons. Especially if he ends up riding around on one by the end of the segment.

 

[Human Trashcan]

Is Gendry ever coming back on this show? What was he doing last time we saw him? That must've been, what, season 3? 4?

 

[_Ryo_]

I was under the impression he knew it wasn't Tyrion (everyone hated the kid), hence him helping the escape. It was the murder of Tywin he hates Tyrion for, which Jamie can't forgive, since he actually loved his father in some way.

I was under the impression that Tywin's murder by Tyrion changed Jamie's mind about who killed Joffery in retrospect, and now Jamie blames Tyrion for both deaths.

 

[NekoFever]

I don't think it's weird. I think it is one of the few interesting characterizations of Cersei left in the show which isn't dumb. She has always been in denial all her life. She fears her own shadow and is very paranoid and insecure. So when she does something like this, even if everyone knows it is her, and it is totally brazen, she won't say she did. She won't admit she did it. She can't. It has to be the way she imagines it - an amazing plan where it looks like a tragic accident and she is the rightful queen. Not an usurper.

It also reflects how real life oppressive regimes handle open secrets. Like in the Soviet Union people knew the government was full of shit and there were jokes about it, but no one would be too public in their criticism because you were liable to disappear if you did. I think it's entirely possible for the gossip around Westeros to be that Cersei blew it up but 'officially' she didn't.

 

[SteveWD40]

Is Gendry ever coming back on this show? What was he doing last time we saw him? That must've been, what, season 3? 4?

Production Spoilers:

Spoiler

Yes, seen on set in a few scenes

Leaks:

Spoiler

He is making weapons in KL, he helps Davos and Tyrion smuggle something in / out and takes out some Gold Cloaks with a warhammer

It's just two scenes and my feeling is they did it to tie off that plotline.

We last saw him in S3 iirc, rowing to KL.

 

[The Artisan]

you sure about that

you reallllly sure dany would be able to leash her dothraki, that they would all be good poster boys

Yeah I'm sure. The Ironborn were into a degenerate lifestyle too and Dany made them agree to cut that shit out.

She's shown the Dothraki she means business and they'll have to follow ALL her commands just as Jon forced all the northerners and wildlings to make peace despite many of them probably wanting to kill each other.

lol I totally agree with this. The longer this secret has been and is being kept under wraps the less effective the actual reveal is becoming. They really need to get it out of the way in the first half here.

Yeah it kinda lessens the impact on the world. They've had the effect on the viewer but as time goes on, in the current events of Westeros this secret is becoming less and less vital/relevant.

I can see only Jon & Dany themselves reacting to it the most, Jon will be shocked to death but I think it will make Dany want to be closer to Jon and never let him go even more.

 

[kittoo]

Thanks for this.

But it's still less annoying than could of/would of/should of.

Oh that makes me mad. Wth is could of/would of anyway. How does it make any sense?

 

[JWiLL]

You think this would look silly?

What the...

Mads!? I never knew how much I wanted him on GoT until now. Even if that looks a bit ridiculous he would have sold the shit out of it and made Euron a fan favorite.

 

[mantidor]

So will Mel be killed by Arya? This little change from the books bothers me more than it should, her inclusion on the list is kind of weird.

 

[jfkgoblue]

Yeah I'm sure. The Ironborn were into a degenerate lifestyle too and Dany made them agree to cut that shit out.

She's shown the Dothraki she means business and they'll have to follow ALL her commands just as Jon forced all the northerners and wildlings to make peace despite many of them probably wanting to kill each other.
Yeah it kinda lessens the impact on the world. They've had the effect on the viewer but as time goes on, in the current events of Westeros this secret is becoming less and less vital/relevant.

I can see only Jon & Dany themselves reacting to it the most, Jon will be shocked to death but I think it will make Dany want to be closer to Jon and never let him go even more.

She is not going to stop the Dothraki from raping and pillaging.

 

[Gigglepoo]

The Tyrells were only as strong as they were mainly because of Tarly and his forces.

I that's true, why didn't Tywin try to marry Cercei to Dickon instead of Loras? Surely marrying into the Tarlys and Tyrells (via Maergery) would have made the Lannisters nigh unstoppable, and they even aged Dickon up so it would be appropriate on the show.

Ones watch ends when they die. He's free to leave.

None of the northern lords know he died, though. This is a major plot hole.

 

[mantidor]

She is not going to stop the Dothraki from raping and pillaging.

Somehow she was stopping the Greyjoys from raping and pillaging too.

 

[jfkgoblue]

I that's true, why didn't Tywin try to marry Cercei to Dickon instead of Loras? Surely marrying into the Tarlys and Tyrells (via Maergery) would have made the Lannisters nigh unstoppable, and they even aged Dickon up so it would be appropriate on the show.



None of the northern lords know he died, though. This is a major plot hole.

Frankly, he got rid of Ramsey so I think they just don't give a fuck.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I hope he does not decline. Jon x Dany <3

Dany needs to be with someone more...brooding. If ya know what I mean

Dany is madd entitled to things while Jon is the complete opposite; has greatness and leadership thrusted upon him without ever demanding or expecting it. they're opposites, and opposites attract

perhaps then if they do get together, being the last 2 targaryens, they'll also be the last 2 to commit incest? i had to look again but it seems like there was a stark by the name of Jonnel who married his niece. so an aunt/nephew marriage probably wouldn't be that bad for Jon & Dany in the societal way.

I can see only Jon & Dany themselves reacting to it the most, Jon will be shocked to death but I think it will make Dany want to be closer to Jon and never let him go even more.

The Artisan, brah, you seem pretty invested in this nephew/auntie relationship happening

 

[Gigglepoo]

Frankly, he got rid of Ramsey so I think they just don't give a fuck.

Yes, the northerners are definitely shown as people who don't give a fuck about tradition or laws.

 

[jfkgoblue]

The Artisan, brah, you seem pretty invested in this nephew/auntie relationship happening

He represents the other threads obsession with shipping

Yes, the northerners are definitely shown as people who don't give a fuck about tradition or laws. It's kind of amazing how readily some people hand-wave every plot hole.

Sure they care about traditions, but the fact that they hated the Boltons, and the fact that Jon is still a Stark in their eyes, outweigh it.

 

[Moff]

What the...

Mads!? I never knew how much I wanted him on GoT until now. Even if that looks a bit ridiculous he would have sold the shit out of it and made Euron a fan favorite.

not with D&D writing

 

[Gigglepoo]

Sure they care about traditions, but the fact that they hated the Boltons, and the fact that Jon is still a Stark in their eyes, outweigh it.

Remember how Jon couldn't recruit any Northern houses to his cause? Seriously, re-watch it. He got zero. But now he's a Stark so he's their king? A bastard deserter? Sure thing. No plot holes at all. Right.

So he recruited zero houses (that was Sansa, Tormen, and Davos), didn't win the battle (Vale Knights), and isn't a true Stark (Sansa).

 

[rashbeep]

What the...

Mads!? I never knew how much I wanted him on GoT until now. Even if that looks a bit ridiculous he would have sold the shit out of it and made Euron a fan favorite.

i don't think it would look totally out of place, we've had a guy with blue lips before on the show

The Artisan, brah, you seem pretty invested in this nephew/auntie relationship happening

i could see it falling apart quickly if jon's parentage becomes known. he would be a threat to dany's claim

 

[Brakke]

Gigglepoo do you even watch the show. Jon got more than zero houses.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Gigglepoo do you even watch the show. Jon got more than zero houses.

Sansa, Davos, and Tormen recruited the three northern houses that went against the Boltons.

Wait, Tormen got the wildings. Sorry about that.

 

[jfkgoblue]

Remember how Jon couldn't recruit any Northern houses to his cause? Seriously, re-watch it. He got zero. But now he's a Stark so he's their king? A bastard deserter? Sure thing. No plot holes at all. Right.

So he recruited zero houses (that was Sansa, Tormen, and Davos), didn't win the battle (Vale Knights), and isn't a true Stark (Sansa).

Look, I love to hate on the show for legitimate plot holes, but Jon being KitN is not one of those.

Hell last episode this very point was brought up that he was chosen because they believed in him, and lead the charge against Ramsey. He was the commander of the forces that defeated the Boltons, it only makes sense for them to name him KitN.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

sorry, totally off-topic / totally tangential here, but it's "a usurper" not "an usurper".

i know we're told "a followed by a word starting with a vowel turns into an", but this is a classic example of one of the exceptions to this rule [regardless of origin of the English you speak].

seen this three times on GAF this week, needs to freaking stop [hurts my brain trying to say these mistakes in my head].

*for example, you'd never say "an university", or "an uniform"

**but you WOULD say "an uncle" - which is because "uncle" is a monopthong [single sound vowel], whereas "university" or "usurper" begin with the "ew" or dipthong [two sound vowel] version of the vowel.

#themoreyouknow

 

[Tiktaalik]

Remember how Jon couldn't recruit any Northern houses to his cause? Seriously, re-watch it. He got zero. But now he's a Stark so he's their king? A bastard deserter? Sure thing. No plot holes at all. Right.

So he recruited zero houses (that was Sansa, Tormen, and Davos), didn't win the battle (Vale Knights), and isn't a true Stark (Sansa).

Everyone sitting on the sidelines then jumping board when it becomes crystal clear who the winner is and who is in charge isn't a plot hole. That's how things work in real life.

 

[Brakke]

They all explained why they decided to follow Jon. They had a whole meeting about it and everything.