Yeah, that's why I pointed out that they live by old laws and a bastard deserter wouldn't become king even if they have a meeting about it. But we'll agree to disagree.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
Yeah, that's why I pointed out that they live by old laws and a bastard deserter wouldn't become king even if they have a meeting about it. But we'll agree to disagree.
The Artisan
Member
Yes she will, man. Why would she let them continue doing stuff she worked to put an end to?
you betcha!
I've been shipping the 2 of them before I knew they were related. They're just perfect for each other. Aunt/nephew sexual and romantic relations seem to be socially acceptable in Westeros. But Jaime/Cersei grosses me the fuck out. Whether on GRRM's planet earth or our planet earth, you should never hook up with your brother/sister.
Napalm_Frank
Member
Royce/Baelish was the commander who defeated the Boltons TBF (via Sansa's request). Jon lead his men into a slaughter.
Hmmm did they? They said Jon avenged the red wedding and was Ned son, those are the literal reasons and both are incorrect.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Oh yeah i really felt the fireworks in that last episode. Haven't seen this kind of sexual tension since I saw a 2x4 propped up against a shed wall
You're wrong though.
Jon won over the Wildlings (which cost him his life), as well as Lady Mormont, the true MVP of Northern lords.
No, Davos did.
Aldo, this whole battle happened at that time because Sansa kept things from him when he was literally asking to her face what readon he should wait gor (Winter coming, ya know).
To then he is Ned's son, and he did avenge the Red Wedding... it was the Boltons who did it.
How is she going to stop them? She may be Khal because she killed the others, but other hopeful Khals will work to either break off or usurp her. Now there are rogue Khalisars roaming Westeros.
Davos gave the speech that turned Mormont, Tormund gave the speech that convinced the wildings to join the northern fight. Jon couldn't sway either side to his cause.
His actions did.
we're really hitting the bottom of the nitpick barrel
scraping hard
sunday is too far away
I just want a universe that makes sense. Even if you think its nitpicky, Jon couldn't sway any house to his side. And Sansa/Littlefingers' Vale army won the battle. And he's a bastard. And he's a Night's Watch deserter. And he lead a suicide charge, undermining any strategy they had. Yeah, it makes the show easier to enjoy if you hand wave all that away, but it all happened. It's a part of the story. If you don't care, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it's untrue or unimportant.
Of course I know that
I just found it ironic. He definitely did not avenge the red wedding, his army was defeated until the Vale arrived and Roose was long dead. The closest to a red wedding revenge was Arya.The scene in question.
"As far as I know, you're a Snow, and Lady Sansa is a Lannister. Or is it a Bolton?" That was her response to Jon's request.
"I understand that I am responsible to Bear Island and all who live here. Why should I sacrafice one more Mormont life for someone else's war?"
Then Davos argues on behalf of Jon's fight. And she agrees to jon. How am I being obstinant? She flat-out denied Jon and Sansa's request but is swayed by Davos. You think Jon recruited her?
She is not a normal Khaleesi, the show has made the point that she is a "messias"-figure to the Dothraki. Everyone saw how she was unburnt when she killed the other Khals. There were some other moments like that in the show and she has dragons.
As a non native speaker, that was actually helpful.
Someone always dramatically swoops in at the end of a battle to save the day, the guy who was leading the whole time gets the credit.
If you wanna get really into it- Ramsay took refuge in winterfell. If it wasn't for Jon and wun wun, they would have had to deal with a castle defense (or not, because TV)
If you wanna get really into it- Ramsay took refuge in winterfell. If it wasn't for Jon and wun wun, they would have had to deal with a castle defense (or not, because TV)
I think you are right. This will cause trouble. You can't change these people completely. They have traditions, since ages. She also didn't free them like the slaves, she convinced them with power.
But I also guess that they might go back to where they came from when everything is done. They don't belong to Westeros. The land is completely different and there are parts they will never go, like the north.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Because the Dothrakis whole thing is pillaging and raping. They are nothing without the pillaging and raping.
You brought up the ironborn, but the only ironborn who joined her were the ones scared of Euron. They probably didnt like pillaging and raping to begin with.
LordOfChaos
Member
The actor makes it fun, but man is he fucked in the WoW chapter:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TOzYKnHHFS87I2B1Mx1xaF0zoR5pjdl5bLh9Fzi6Dts/edit
I don't agree. Yes, Ramsey flew but there was hardly anything left to defend Winterfell and the front gate was also only of wood. I always felt that rushing to Winterfell was stupid because they already won and I think wunwun didn't have to die.
Ocarina_117
Banned
Davos is the greatest hype man in Westeros.
I loved how, after Missandei listed Dany's titles like she was Usidore the Blue, Davos just says "He's Jon Snow." I laughed out loud.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
"And this is Jon Snow"
Then Davos verbally smacks Dany when she douns Jon Snow
Davos is the best. If he dies we riot
Red Arremer
Member
The animosity between the Tyrells and Martells stems from the time after Daeron's annexation of Dorne, when Dorne was added to the territory of the reach, and the Tyrell lord who was to rule over the combined territories was assassinated, leading to Dorne going independent once more. I distinctly remember Olenna even referencing it in the show with the line about a hundred scorpions (which is how that Tyrell lord was killed by the Dornish).
In the books, they also hate the Martells in particular because Oberyn crippled Willas Tyrell, but since Willas doesn't exist in the show, it's just the hostility due to the murder of that Tyrell guy.
Ocarina_117
Banned
There a also a lot of raiding of settlements on each side of the border.
Mace also shows disdain, in the books, when made aware the dornish were crossing his lands to come to KL.
Red Arremer
Member
Yeah, though the Dornish have had border squabbles with the Marcher lords of the Stormlands as well.
...I had a longer, more well-written post in mind, but all of that actually is unimportant, so
- People don't sign up to follow ambassadors or advisers who do the convincing for their superiors.
- Jon Snow led the army that fought the battle to take the North back from the traitorous house that sold them out to the South, when most of the other houses were too chickenshit to even show up
- That he's a bastard with the rest of the Stark men dead is probably the least important of all the unimportant stuff here
- No one gives a shit about the Night's Watch at this point, plus he was the Lord Commander, plus no one in the Night's Watch is chasing him, plus "Fuck you you left the Night's Watch to reclaim the North when none of us had the nuts to do anything about it I hate you Jon Snow" doesn't make sense
- That the battle is won and at the end of it Jon Snow is the de facto Lord of Winterfell is the only thing that matters about the battle
- Including that Littlefinger showed up and saved the day because he's still not going to be King in the North
I mean, all of this stuff should be immediately apparent
Jon Snow led the army that won the battle to retake/avenge the North while showing up every other chickenshit Northern house, and he's the last living son of Ned Stark sitting at the head of the table in Winterfell. Anything beyond that is pretty marginal.
Yara literally tells Dany that is their way of life and is taken aback that they have to give that up.
It's like some of you are watching another show.
fuuuck, why did I reread that I forgot how good it is
Red Arremer
Member
When during the Battle of Vienna, John Sobieski came with the Polish relief army to beat the Ottomans, it wasn't Starhemberg, the military governor of Vienna, or Charles V of Lorraine, the ruler of Austria, who was celebrated afterwards, but the man who led the relief army: Sobieski.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
But the point is that yara and her gang prettt much rebel against their way of life the second that she ran away.
No? You are just making up things, they rebelled against Euron, again she literally does not want to give that up, she only does it because Dany demanded it and to get to Euron they need Dany.
Yeah with Yara they sort of stumbled through turning her into Book!Asha. Book!Asha's Kingsmoot speech is all about how she offers them pinecones so they don't have to be Raiders anymore. Book!Asha would probably take Dany's offer no problem.
Show!Yara probably should've been more reluctant about it and of course her "banners" should've pushed back against her taking the deal, but the show obviously wouldn't bother getting into that detail.
Show!Yara probably should've been more reluctant about it and of course her "banners" should've pushed back against her taking the deal, but the show obviously wouldn't bother getting into that detail.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Too bad they failed and got captured.
The Dothraki are a different beast though. Their whole schtick is literally savages on horses.
Rad Shadow
Banned
You would think the sand snakes would have a poison pill or some other method to off themselves so a situation like what's happening now wouldn't occur.
Ah well. Drama! Revenge!!
Ah well. Drama! Revenge!!
The Artisan
Member
2x4 propped up against a shed wall?
They are loyal to her. If they commit something she forbade, she's gonna
Nah man, when she made the alliances with Yara she was like "No more pillaging, reaving, raping, etc"
Yara is like "but that's our way of life" - not acceptable for Dany.
Tywin and the Tyrells were celebrated for winning the Battle of Blackwater Bay even though Tyrion was in charge.
But whatever. Some people are annoyed the Northerners forgot the old laws, others don't care. Jon being king isn't ruining the show.
Red Arremer
Member
I never said it was, I just was not agreeing with the point that "Jon won the battle cause he was in charge", despite the fact that the army he was in charge of was nearly completely slaughtered until the Vale relief forces came in. Especially considering Jon's fairly poor tactical decisions made against Ramsay's forces.
I was agreeing with you by showing other examples (a show example) of the calvary being championed instead of the general leading the initial attack. Sorry for the confusion! We're on the same side.
Red Arremer
Member
The Artisan
Member
Red Arremer
Member
I just was watching a few clips of season 1. Remember when the Stark host shot down Walder Frey's ravens so he couldn't send word to the Lannisters of Robb's movements? Insane how we went from such primitive methods to ships equipped with warp speed and high end scanners, as well as armies with such strong cloaking technology that they can move without anybody noticing until they're literally in front of a castle they want to take, and can besiege and conquer it in the blink of an eye with their photon torpedo launchers and phaser rifles.
What you are saying makes too much sense but the why is the reason David and Dan are terrible at this. It's all just about the moment to moment shock. It was shocking in the moment, she got him back "OOOH". And that's it.
il Diavolo
Banned
Yup. Was watching some scenes from season 1 on YouTube. The contrast in quality is stark.
The Artisan
Member
I think that happened in season 2 but yeah you're right. The fluidity of the pacing isn't as smooth and won't be for the rest of the series I think.
Cesare Borgia
Banned
It's a two sided coin. On one hand the dialogue and acting are superior in S1. On the other hand, the cinematography and direction is very lacking throughout S1 until Alan Taylor's episodes. Whereas over the last few seasons the cinematography and direction have been great, while everything else is questionable.
No. She wanted to usurp the rightful King of the Iron Islands, and begged Dany to help her do it.
1)I am assuming he is referring to both actors wooden performances.
2)The Dothraki are only loyal if they perceive the leader is strong, what happens when Dany continues to take the Ls? She can't control a 100k+ Dothraki army that loses their respect for her. I can almost guarantee that there will be rogue khalisars roaming Westeros and it will 100% be Dany's fault.
3)Same thing for the Ironborn, but we won't get to see that as they are all dead now.