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[The Xtortionist]

I think what impresses me most about Sonic Mania is just the relentless parade of new ideas. Each stage seems to introduce one-off gimmicks, sometimes multiple one-off gimmicks, and most of them feel thoroughly explored in their level. Each level also has its own unique boss at the end and its own unique music, and most levels have their own unique backgrounds as well.

Each zone also has unique enemies :V

Yeah, for better or worse that makes Sonic what it is. You don't get as many individual levels as in, like, a Mario game, but no levels will dare show you the same thing twice. It creates a unique sense of progression throughout the game. It's a cool alternative to the level trope-based norm.

 

[LordKano]

It really isn't. At best it's better than Sonic 1, and I'm not even sure I'd go that far. Some of that level design is questionable to say the least, and the time travel mechanic is a pace killer.

It's better than both Sonic 1 and 2 easily. Level design is funky sometimes but it's for the best.
The worst thing in that game is getting the chaos emeralds, because the whole minigame runs at like 15FPS.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Anyone had much experience with the two player on the Switch using joycons? Just wondering how it handles.

 

[Aki-at]

Uh but Sonic CD is easily better than two third of the trilogy.

Wacky Workbench unfortunately nullifies any claims it may have to this.

But at least it has an amazing race with Metal Sonic and probably my favourite OST in the series.

 

[Kinsei]

It's better than both Sonic 1 and 2 easily. Level design is funky sometimes but it's for the best.
The worst thing in that game is getting the chaos emeralds, because the whole minigame runs at like 15FPS.

Sonic CD is straight up garbage. There isn't a single zone in it that's actually good.

 

[Mr Swine]

You can hate

Spoiler

Sonic CD

and still love these new takes of those levels. They're very different compared to the originals.

Spoiler

Stardust Speedway Act 1 barely resembles anything from that stage in CD - it's more influenced by Marble Garden and Mushroom Hill, albeit with the original's speed tubes to tie things together. Act 2 is a bit closer to the original, but is less convoluted to navigate, and dat party atmosphere is unmatched.

Metallic Madness is also very different from CD. Again, it's less convoluted, and gimmicks like hopping to the background are new. The actual level design doesn't resemble much of CD's at all.

Uh but Sonic CD is easily better than two third of the trilogy.

While they are better than the ones from CD I still think they could have just skipped them, I feel they are the weakest of all the levels in Mania

 

[jman2050]

Yall need to back up a bit with the slander against Sonic CD, you know what I'm saying?

 

[LordKano]

Wacky Workbench unfortunately nullifies any claims it may have to this.

But at least it has an amazing race with Metal Sonic and probably my favourite OST in the series.

Every Sonic has its awful zone. 1 was filled with them, 2 has Oil Ocean, Sonic 3 has Marble Garden, and you already know who's the awful one in Mania.

Sonic CD is straight up garbage. There isn't a single zone in it that's actually good.

Y'all crazy

 

[Ferr986]

This is a useless discussion but still.... Sonic CD is still the best Sonic game

 

[Theslammer]

Spoiler

Metallic Madness

main boss.

Loved it!

 

[SkylineRKR]

Sonic CD is very good if you go at it with a different mindset. Its more about exploration. The game has 2 or 3 required things you need to find in each level to create the best conclusion. You need to find a signpost, find a place to gather enough speed in, and find the hidden things you need to destroy. I also like how past, present and future look so different from eachother.

I generally enjoy CD when I am playing it at leisure, exploring and finding all generators and projections. Sonic 3K, Mania etc are better games to me, but they are usually gotta go fast. CD is a nice change of pace thats not for everyone though.

Wacky Workbench can die in a fire though.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Spoiler

Metallic Madness

main boss.

Loved it!

Both bosses in that zone were fantastic.

Which isn't surprising, 'cause it's the best zone.

 

[LordKano]

Both bosses in that zone were fantastic.

Which isn't surprising, 'cause it's the best zone.

That's not Studiopolis though.
Which is, by the way, the best Sonic has ever been.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Sonic CD is very good if you go at it with a different mindset. Its more about exploration. The game has 2 or 3 required things you need to find in each level to create the best conclusion. I also like how past, present and future look so different from eachother.

I generally enjoy CD when I am playing it at leisure, exploring and finding all generators and projections. Sonic 3K, Mania etc are better games to me, but they are usually gotta go fast. CD is a nice change of pace thats not for everyone though.

Wacky Workbench can die in a fire though.

My main issue with CD's exploration is how punishing it is. If you hit a Past signpost but fail to gain enough speed, the post won't be able to be reactivated. Once you're in the past, you have to scour often-huge, interconnecting levels to find one specific thing that gives you no clues of its wherabouts. It's probably easier to just grab the time stones which I'm pretty sure guarantee the good ending regardless of robot generators/Metal Sonic projectors.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

That's not Studiopolis though.
Which is, by the way, the best Sonic has ever been.

Act II of Studiopolis is one of the game's high points for sure.

 

[The Xtortionist]

That's not Studiopolis though.
Which is, by the way, the best Sonic has ever been.

Can we all agree that Mania has several peak-Sonic zones

 

[LordKano]

Overall I'd say this :
Mania > 3 & Knuckles > CD > 2 > 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4

Can we all agree that Mania has several peak-Sonic zones

Definitely. Which is why I want a sequel or DLCs ASAP. Even the previously boring zones were improved

Spoiler

but that wasn't enough to save Oil Ocean.

 

[Waddle Dee]

Sonic CD is straight up garbage. There isn't a single zone in it that's actually good.

I'm not much of a Sonic CD fan but chill, man. Sonic CD has plenty of things going for it. Amazing art direction (probably the best in the franchise until Mania), two amazing soundtracks, a lot of cool gimmicks (even if they aren't all well executed, thanks to the sloppy level design) and some creative, if overly easy, bosses.

It's really the poorly executed time travel mechanic, and the cluttered level design that is CD's undoing. Still not a bad game though.

 

[MrBadger]

So I'm taking a break from the special stages to go through the Knuckles campaign, and a few of the differences caught me off guard. Firstly,

Spoiler

Mirage Saloon having a fully fleshed out Knuckles-exclusive level, ending with a Sonic Chaos boss fight.

And secondly, I thought it was weird how

Spoiler

there wasn't a Heavy King fight. I expect he's the Super Sonic boss but it was still odd that he was missing from the main campaign considering how he's bigged up as the main villain. Then he tried to steal the Master Emerald in a hilarious cutscene, followed by a Mecha Sonic-esque boss fight.

That was a great surprise but it's still weird how

Spoiler

unimportant he is

.

Also are we at the point of ranking? Sure
&K>Mania>3>2=CD>1>>>>>>>>>>4e1>4e2
I can't see how anyone can't at least say this game is comparable in quality to 3K. I thought the level design and boss fights were way more fun, but &K's far superior finale edges it out for me

 

[Aki-at]

Every Sonic has its awful zone. 1 was filled with them, 2 has Oil Ocean, Sonic 3 has Marble Garden, and you already know who's the awful one in Mania.

Except Sonic CD has several moderate to bad zones, don't get me started on Stardust Speedway. I mean look at this! Whilst the others may have some levels you're equally frustrated on, they don't have a gimmick that sends you sky high into the air and possible get accidentally hit by those electric wires.

 

[Ferr986]

Both Studiopolis, Mirage Saloon act2 and both

Spoiler

Metallic Madness

are the best Mania acts and one of the bests in the series.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

I think what impresses me most about Sonic Mania is just the relentless parade of new ideas. Each stage seems to introduce one-off gimmicks, sometimes multiple one-off gimmicks, and most of them feel thoroughly explored in their level. Each level also has its own unique boss at the end and its own unique music, and most levels have their own unique backgrounds as well.

Yep - I've never been a big Sonic fan. Don't get me wrong, I loved them as a kid and I have a soft spot for SA1 based solely on seeing the whale-chase at a Toys R Us. But ever since? Meh, put me in the camp of there "haven't been any good Sonic games" in a decade and a half. Colors was okay - as was Generations - but they're forgettable. You play them, shelve them, and never come back.

Sonic Mania, though, has just been new idea after new idea after new idea. Brilliant zones. Fun graphics. Amazing pixel art. The soundtrack is possibly the best of this gen. The controls feel just like old Sonic. And there's just constant new surprises... literally every minute or so. It's crazy just how much of the game you spend experiencing something totally unique. It's like, without exaggerating, 80% of the game as you progress.

There have been some SUPER cheap deaths - and I still f-ing hate that getting "pinched" is a kill, especially on moving platforms like in Chemical Plant. It's garbage and frustrating and unfair. But other than a few questionable enemy placements and "Demon Souls surprises" that you just have to eat the first time... this is a very well-executed game. It's probably my #2 GOTY after Zelda.

 

[LordKano]

Except Sonic CD has several moderate to bad zones, don't get me started on Stardust Speedway. I mean look at this! Whilst the others may have some levels you're equally frustrated on, they don't have a gimmick that sends you sky high into the air and possible get accidentally hit by those electric wires.

Sorry, you're talking to the guy who previously had Stardust Speedway as its favourite zone before playing Mania, I loved that shit.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Ok. Oil Ocean Zone is turning out to be the death of me. No saves between acts was an annoyance before, but with OOZ's boss, it's turned into an archaic detriment.

 

[Waddle Dee]

Every Sonic has its awful zone. 1 was filled with them, 2 has Oil Ocean, Sonic 3 has Marble Garden, and you already know who's the awful one in Mania.



Y'all crazy

Oil Ocean is probably my favorite zone in Sonic 2 and I consider Marble Garden to be one of the most overlooked levels in the franchise.

Which is the awful one in Mania to you?

Spoiler

Oil Ocean, again

? The worst zone in the game to me is probably

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

but even then I still like it.

 

[Neiteio]

Each zone also has unique enemies :V

Yeah, for better or worse that makes Sonic what it is. You don't get as many individual levels as in, like, a Mario game, but no levels will dare show you the same thing twice. It creates a unique sense of progression throughout the game. It's a cool alternative to the level trope-based norm.

Yeah, I'm impressed by the sheer scope and scale of each level, and how densely packed they are with new ideas — unique enemies, obstacles, bosses, stage elements, music, environmental art — and how you have to replay each level multiple times to see every path, and how each path takes a decent amount of time to explore despite the fact you're (potentially) moving fast, and how you can get additional replay value by going through them with different characters or pairs of characters, which sometimes even modifies the layout or straight-up changes the entire level (Knuckles' Mirage Saloon Act 1).

I also like how many platforming sections have the payoff of a pinball section where you're rocketed around the stage (with varying levels of control), which may be 90% flash but is still exhilarating and enhances the sense of scale, since you're often weaving past previous sections of the stage but arriving in new areas, like when a loop-de-loop travels behind the foreground, or when you run along the other side of a double-helix bridge, making everything feel layered and interconnected.

The level design is very impressive. I'd be interested to see a map of an entire level, if such a thing is even possible, if only to see how the big picture fits together. Some stages seem overwhelming in their complexity, to the point I wonder how they even went about designing them.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Every Sonic has its awful zone. 1 was filled with them, 2 has Oil Ocean, Sonic 3 has Marble Garden, and you already know who's the awful one in Mania.



Y'all crazy

Oil Ocean and Marble Garden are both great and better than any level in CD.

 

[LordKano]

Oil Ocean is probably my favorite zone in Sonic 2 and I consider Marble Garden to be one of the most overlooked levels in the franchise.

Which is the awful one in Mania to you?

Spoiler

Oil Ocean, again

? The worst zone in the game to me is probably

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

but even then I still like it.

Yeah

Spoiler

Oil Ocean again

, I don't dislike as much

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

as the general opinion in this thread but it's far from the best the game could offer. I liked the final boss though.

Oil Ocean and Marble Garden are both great and better than any level in CD.

I'm out of this mess.

 

[Falk]

I'd be interested to see a map of an entire level, if such a thing is even possible, if only to see how the big picture fits together. Some stages seem overwhelming in their complexity, to the point I wonder how they even went about designing them.

Wouldn't be surprised if sites like Sonic Retro have them up sooner rather than later.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(16-bit)_level_maps

 

[Waddle Dee]

Act II of Studiopolis is one of the game's high points for sure.

Strongly agree. People sleeping on this level!

 

[Neiteio]

Spoiler

Oil Ocean

really grew on me after having to replay it a million times since the Act 2 boss kept killing me and sending me all the way back to the beginning of Act 1. Both levels have a great flow. Same for Flying Battery, a zone I was mixed on at first but that I liked more and more with each replay until it became one of my favorites.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Oil Ocean is probably my favorite zone in Sonic 2 and I consider Marble Garden to be one of the most overlooked levels in the franchise.

Which is the awful one in Mania to you?

Spoiler

Oil Ocean, again

? The worst zone in the game to me is probably

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

but even then I still like it.

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

is the correct answer. Act 2 is especially terrible.

 

[LordKano]

A bit unrelated but I just remembered that Freedom Planet 2 is in development and I'm waiting for it. The first one was a good Sonic clone.

 

[MrBadger]

I'm out of this mess.

lmao

Also I liked Mania's take on

Spoiler

Oil Ocean

a lot more than the original. Act 1 was far less vertical and act 2 was a great example of Mania taking the setting and doing something unique with it. The boss was naff though, despite being cool looking

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

isn't bad, it's just a bit derivative and plain compared to the rest of Mania, and especially the rest of the original zones.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Both Studiopolis, Mirage Saloon act2 and both

Spoiler

Metallic Madness

are the best Mania acts and one of the bests in the series.

I'd give Chemical Plant Act 2 a nod, as well. Like, it's Wacky Workbench that actually functions holy shit

 

[Kinsei]

Oil Ocean and Marble Garden are both great and better than any level in CD.

I agree with you on Oil Ocean being great. Marble Garden is just kinda there for me. Not awful but not great either.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

A bit unrelated but I just remembered that Freedom Planet 2 is in development and I'm waiting for it. The first one was a good Sonic clone.

No it wasn't. It was a solid game on its own merits. It was nothing like Sonic.

 

[Neiteio]

Wouldn't be surprised if sites like Sonic Retro have them up sooner rather than later.

http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(16-bit)_level_maps

These are amazing! Hopefully they add Mania soon. :-D

 

[SkylineRKR]

I'd give Chemical Plant Act 2 a nod, as well. Like, it's Wacky Workbench that actually functions holy shit

It kills the original. Boss is better as well. The original had these fucking pitfalls iirc, this one is just... fuck yes.

 

[13ruce]

Mania is NO 1 in EU eshop store in the rankings list

Game will easily sell a million across all platforms but i am hoping for 2-2.5m personally.

 

[LordKano]

No it wasn't. It was a solid game on its own merits. It was nothing like Sonic.

I didn't mean to undermine its merits but you can't say that it isn't taking heavy influences from Sonic.

 

[Error1355]

Is the key supposed to be on the metal card in the collectors edition? Because if so my box set came with no code.

Edit: Fuck I'm stupid. Found the page with the code that must have fell somewhere.

 

[Neiteio]

I'd give Chemical Plant Act 2 a nod, as well. Like, it's Wacky Workbench that actually functions holy shit

Chemical Plant Act 2 is where I realized this game might be one of the best ever. It pretty much singlehandedly sold me on the 2D Sonic formula.

 

[Aki-at]

Sorry, you're talking to the guy who previously had Stardust Speedway as its favourite zone before playing Mania, I loved that shit.

Fair enough, fair enough.

Since I love the aesthetics for the level I am pretty happy they brought it back. Sonic CD probably has the best art direction in the series to me.

Oil Ocean is probably my favorite zone in Sonic 2 and I consider Marble Garden to be one of the most overlooked levels in the franchise.

My man!

Sonic 2 probably still has my favourite collection of levels, other than Metropolis Zone which has those starfish and crabs but I'll let it's cheapness off on the account it's one of the final levels.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Loving these boss battles. So crazy. Best boss battles of the year, for sure.

 

[Waddle Dee]

A bit unrelated but I just remembered that Freedom Planet 2 is in development and I'm waiting for it. The first one was a good Sonic clone.

Yes, I'm excited for FP2 as well. I'm a bit worried that they'll try to "un-Sonicfy" it or whatever, judging by some of the new additions, but it should still be great. The original was a definite contender for GotY for 2014 imo.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I didn't mean to undermine its merits but you can't say that it isn't taking heavy influences from Sonic.

It plays very differently and has a much bigger focus on combat. Animal characters running fast doesn't make a Sonic clone to me.

 

[LifeLike]

25$ CAD??
I'll wait for it to drop. Can't justify a 25 bucks Sonic Game.

 

[The Xtortionist]

I also like how many platforming sections have the payoff of a pinball section where you're rocketed around the stage (with varying levels of control), which may be 90% flash but is still exhilarating and enhances the sense of scale, since you're often weaving past previous sections of the stage but arriving in new areas, like when a loop-de-loop travels behind the foreground, or when you run along the other side of a double-helix bridge, making everything feel layered and interconnected.

Yeah, this is really where the pinball aspect of Sonic surfaces. Manually navigating a section of the level in Sonic is like flipping the ball in pinball, and the reward for both is generally a small span of time where the ball is at the mercy of physics and Rube Goldberg-style contraptions and setups. After that, you get to direct Sonic or the ball again before the next physics showcase, rinse and repeat. Though I suppose the difference with Sonic is that you can step in a wrestle back control at any time.

 

[Neiteio]

With regards to

Spoiler

Titanic Monarch

, I'm still trying to beat its Act 1, but despite replaying it a few times I'm not sure what its theme is. Looks like

Spoiler

a cyberpunk city?

Lot going on the background... Bit hard to parse.