Dangansona
Member
I assume any actual developments will get new threads.
PewDiePie calls someone a "fucking n****r" during PUBG livestream
- Thread starter chaobreaker
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I assume any actual developments will get new threads.
Angry Fork
Member
Even if pewdiepie isn't racist (I don't think he is, I do think he believes the word isn't a big deal, he probably thinks the word means something else in that context because that's the rationale given by people for using fag/faggot), there's a shitload of people like him who haven't been taught (or don't care) about the fact that the word is for the most part off limits to white people except in very rare/specific circumstances.
It's not really a matter of "i should be able to say it", it's just acknowledging the history behind it is really bad and it's an unwritten social rule to not say it because for 100+ years white people used it to put down black people. It's really not a big deal at all to not use it but so many white people think they're being robbed of something and in response they use it more often in order to be an asshole for no reason. They've mistakenly come to believe that freedom of speech means you should act like a dick and ignore social norms just because you can.
And even if you ignore all the history, social norms, and all that shit, why would you even have the urge to use that word anyway in place of something like "idiot, asshole, cunt, piece of shit, etc."? There's a plethora of words to call someone if you're pissed at them that don't have a deep racist history, and yet so many people want to use the one with the racist history? It's just really ignorant/stupid.
It's not really a matter of "i should be able to say it", it's just acknowledging the history behind it is really bad and it's an unwritten social rule to not say it because for 100+ years white people used it to put down black people. It's really not a big deal at all to not use it but so many white people think they're being robbed of something and in response they use it more often in order to be an asshole for no reason. They've mistakenly come to believe that freedom of speech means you should act like a dick and ignore social norms just because you can.
And even if you ignore all the history, social norms, and all that shit, why would you even have the urge to use that word anyway in place of something like "idiot, asshole, cunt, piece of shit, etc."? There's a plethora of words to call someone if you're pissed at them that don't have a deep racist history, and yet so many people want to use the one with the racist history? It's just really ignorant/stupid.
Or ya know people should just treat them like they treat other human beings before (so equally). It's that fucking simple lol. Boogie has no freaking clue at all.
Man...this entire post.
There's a reason people have been making fun of moderates and centrists. Because Boogie is apparently what's considered one.
HazySaiyan
Banned
I don't why people are so bothered about somebody being called racist, I mean it's just a word ¯\_(ツ
_/¯PhantomThief
Banned
This shit again??
Yes. Racists.
I don't why people are so bothered about somebody being called racist, I mean it's just a word ¯_(ツ
BiGBoSSMk23
A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
This is succinctly the same conclusion I've arrived at, 165 pages on...
You don't even need to have that much knowledge of black history to take a moment and realize what you're enabling.
Black people were enslaved for generations. Children growing in a subjugated society apart from that of their enslavers, appropriated the same slurs used against them to hurt each other because they didn't know any better.
This fact alone should suffice to illustrate why racism is very real, and that it is indeed as simple as the utterance of the word: that millions of marginalized and downtrodden African Americans have been dragging this filthy word for centuries within their communities, isolated from the eyes and ears of social media, and to the delight of those who revel in the equally enduring sentiment of racial superiority.
The meaning and history of the word has not changed, and it's not going to go away just because you're allowing some fucking buffoon to say it freely in front of millions of kids.
You're perpetuating the problem by desensitizing a whole new generation to the use of it, starting the cycle anew.
Exactly. It's almost as if those people are racist or something
AlexFlame116
Member
Saying racists things are bad. Period. Saying sexist things are also bad. Period. Saying anything that downplays a specific group, gender, race, etc with the intent to harm is bad.
It doesn't matter if you "aren't racist but you say the word when you're frustrated", don't say the word. It doesn't matter if your friends are of that color and they don't think it's a problem, someone out there does.
The world doesn't just revolve around you. You weren't born to tolerate others, you were born to live and work alongside them. Words like those mentioned above not only hurt, but they also unravel the equality and companionship that we once had. You don't get a pass to say the word.
If you were young and you said something harmful for the first time AND you didn't know what it meant, then that's okay with me because now I can teach you what the word really means and hope that you don't say it anymore. But if you repeatedly use the word, understanding what it means, and show no remorse or improvement, then prepare to get called out on.
It's not "just a word" when that word has been used time and time again for a specific purpose. Just don't say them period. There are plenty of other words out there that you can use when you are frustrated or upset.
It doesn't matter if you "aren't racist but you say the word when you're frustrated", don't say the word. It doesn't matter if your friends are of that color and they don't think it's a problem, someone out there does.
The world doesn't just revolve around you. You weren't born to tolerate others, you were born to live and work alongside them. Words like those mentioned above not only hurt, but they also unravel the equality and companionship that we once had. You don't get a pass to say the word.
If you were young and you said something harmful for the first time AND you didn't know what it meant, then that's okay with me because now I can teach you what the word really means and hope that you don't say it anymore. But if you repeatedly use the word, understanding what it means, and show no remorse or improvement, then prepare to get called out on.
It's not "just a word" when that word has been used time and time again for a specific purpose. Just don't say them period. There are plenty of other words out there that you can use when you are frustrated or upset.
ReplacementPelican
Member
I really did used to like Boogie, he seemed like a genuine guy.
I think the problem is that people have kind of forgotten that a lot of these video game 'celebrities' aren't the smartest people, they're the kind of people who have done nothing with their lives but play games and spend time on the internet (this isn't a sarcastic commentary on 'Gaf, y'all are fine - hopefully so am I) and when you start getting money either that young or because you somehow, as an older person, have the time to do this then you're likely not an academic or someone who spends a lot of time travelling, meeting other cultures so its easy to get sucked into internet bullshit and drama about 'feminists' and 'SJWs' because it gets you a shit load of views and dismantling someone you either made up or found on tumblr is easier than engaging people.
And that's basically a gateway to this 'everyone's too offended, everyone's too sensitive' culture that can lead to people thinking its okay to say things like this.
So when they veer off and decide to talk about politics or history its obvious that they can't keep up and that allows Boogie to wonder about 'the middle' when discussing a racist or thinking that almost directly responding to Felix's situation with 'people being DMCA-ed for personal politics' without thinking through what he's saying.
And then this.
Its a fucking shame but thanks to certain elements within the gaming community a lot of these people have either begun to think they should comment on politics (despite having, at best, a tenuous grasp on the subject) or commenting on politics to defend what they perceive as 'their people.'
And it comes down to realizing that a lot of these people just aren't very intelligent.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I've come to realize that in the context of the video, he actually used the word nigger here as a way to reassure himself of his perceived dominance over an inferior player. Like how saying, "what was this kid thinking about trying to 1v1 me??" simultaneously attempts to emasculate and assert superiority. But instead of saying something normal like that...his mind went straight to the ultimate in racial epithets to conjure the same sort of temporary self-esteem and confidence boost. Him saying nigger was him reassuring his superiority in his mind while supposing a level of stupidity/inferiority within his slain enemy. Because that's what a nigger is to him. He meant what he said.
That's like...textbook racist thinking. lol. I'm not sure there is anything he can say to lead me to believe otherwise.
That's like...textbook racist thinking. lol. I'm not sure there is anything he can say to lead me to believe otherwise.
No, that's not the intent of the word in that situation. He's using it to describe someone that's turning around and kills his (PDP's) teammate rather than facing him or someone that knows they're losing and instead ruins the game for him and his partner.
It's a very popular BM move in PUBG in any of the team modes. So that regardless of the end of the firefight, even if you lose, you ruined the game for the other group by killing their downed bud(s).
Angry Fork
Member
Sure, but I think you guys underestimate just how ignorant some people can be about history, especially kids in isolated white communities who aren't taught black history or have neighborhoods/parents who are racist or indifferent to shit like the n word.
I think maybe for a lot of younger kids the n word is taking the path that faggot took to be a synonym for asshole or something. It's really stupid and needs to be stopped but I think that's what's happening, especially with the anti-PC shit, Trumpism, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if a decent amount of kids think saying the word is about being anti-authority/anti-PC rather than anti-black. It's complete cancer especially on sites like twitch where saying it has become a meme but I don't really know what the solution is.
I've been saying this for a quite a while. I don't know why people even follow these morally baseless gaming personalities.
Boogie is one of those dudes that explains his opinion, yet the discussion doesn't need it. He just needs to shut up.
Rockin' Ranger
Member
Boogie's limit is fat shaming, only when someone would be prejudiced against him is it a problem.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Translates the same way. An inferior player taking something from him he felt was his. Still a matter of the inferior vs the superior and the words he chose to highlight that difference.
So n- is not meant hatefully??????????? Did you actually comprehend Dream's post?
Are you saying nigger is meant to denote people that ruin "fun" and that is not meant in a hateful way while referencing a minority?
wtf
When people talk about "centrists" in a situation like this, it's important to contexualize it. I think a fair comparison is something along the lines of the Onion article: Nations Still-Undecided Voters: Help, We Cant Get Our Car Seatbelts Off. I'm a big fan of the mockery on display, because it's not saying "people are bad for having come to conclusion X or Y." It's making fun of how stupid a voter has to be to not have grounds for their vote in the days before a national election. It's mocking fence-sitters where there's no business for fence sitting.
I think people maligning broader "tribalism" present in topics like racism, framing themselves as aloof of the actual details, are deplorable. Because the issue (given a context of First Amendment protections for people's right to think and speak whatever viewpoint they like) is an intellectual distinction between [some level of white supremacy] and [racial equality and mutual respect]. Negative reactions to people undecided about an issue of obvious moral consequence aren't exhibiting vapid tribalism. Expecting adults to "shit or get off the pot" on the topic of whether a class of people is categorically inferior shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation. If people believe in their depraved heart-of-hearts that whites are superior, let them. They'll be critized, confronted, and socially censured by good people. But if someone stands up and claims (in word or deed) that people should aim for something in the middle of that, it shows a glimmer of someone either very stupid or very insidious beneath. I'd like to assume stupidity, because it's the less evil outlook on people.
I think people maligning broader "tribalism" present in topics like racism, framing themselves as aloof of the actual details, are deplorable. Because the issue (given a context of First Amendment protections for people's right to think and speak whatever viewpoint they like) is an intellectual distinction between [some level of white supremacy] and [racial equality and mutual respect]. Negative reactions to people undecided about an issue of obvious moral consequence aren't exhibiting vapid tribalism. Expecting adults to "shit or get off the pot" on the topic of whether a class of people is categorically inferior shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation. If people believe in their depraved heart-of-hearts that whites are superior, let them. They'll be critized, confronted, and socially censured by good people. But if someone stands up and claims (in word or deed) that people should aim for something in the middle of that, it shows a glimmer of someone either very stupid or very insidious beneath. I'd like to assume stupidity, because it's the less evil outlook on people.
Yeah, I guess you could view it as like a coward's way out. For most people that play, it's just a dick/asshole move within the context of the game. And of course Felix replaces that with his twisted version of a synonym for any appropriate term.
Not at all what I'm saying. I know people are out for blood in here but I'm not about whatever you're trying to paint me with.
Yeah he even uses the R version and says it in a offend like way and tries tocover it up forst and then acts shocked and tries to talk is away like nothing.
I dunno why peeps keep defending it did they watch the damn video at all? PDP and his friend even have a silly coversation about it after.
That + the other things he did in the past it's not a first time affair at all.
It is and was a full blown racistic act wether people deny it or not he said something to dehumanize a entire race of people, that's racism.
UberTag
Member
ScientificPizza
Banned
i think it was lisa but i'm not sure
and you're willing to extend all this benefit of the doubt to someone like PDP who is a grown man who has used the word before and used other racial slurs?
wow really? Only when it suits him then.
Reappropriation.
ken_matthews
Member
I agree, that does say a lot about his character, but characters can change. I think we both agree that we as a society should do everything we can to stomp out racism, but maybe we draw the line on who is a lost cause differently. Maybe you are more right in this situation though; he has a public platform with millions of followers and the normalizing effect of casually saying that word is harmful. Like I said, I have mixed feelings on this. If he was just a regular guy you worked with, maybe then you try the conversation/education approach. But since he speaks to millions of people, maybe the right tactic is to try and extract a real cost.
He certainly should, but I am not sure that he does know the implications. So this is were I am coming from on this:
I have worked with and around a lot of military personnel over the last ten years. I have met a lot of different types of people from all over the country. And I have met a lot of people who came from insulated and homogenous towns (typically small towns or rural areas were everybody is a white Christian). Some of these people were unapologetic racists, but a lot of them were simply ignorant of history, racism, socioeconomics, etc. I've seen people change over the course of a couple years, after they were really exposed to different types of people and ideas. It doesn't happen through media or on the internet, but it can happen through real dialogue and interaction. Many people don't stop learning at 27. He may be a lost cause, but I am not really interested in him; I am interested in the conversation. And for the record, I think Youtube should drop his channel regardless of whether he is a racist or just the product of bad culture. The last thing we need these days is somebody who is rather popular with kids helping normalize a hateful word.
I agree, I would place them into the "lost cause" category.
I agree, and I think you are right; ignorance is not an excuse. And I am not saying it is a legitimate excuse because there is no excuse. But I believe it is possible that some people use that word out of ignorance and not racism. And if that is true, the question is what do you about it? It becomes a matter of tactics. We both want to eliminate racism, and I think the appropriate response to ignorance is education and conversation.
I agree with you 100%
So, an n word is a coward? Or a dick? Or an asshole?
That doesn't help like you think it does.
Using fucking n word as an insult is racist. No matter why you're insulting someone. If the guy is a coward, call them a fucking coward. Using a racial epithet as a synonym is a racist act, full stop.
My thoughts exactly. Why would anyone give him the benefit of the doubt in this situation? He's done nothing to earn it.
Angry Fork
Member
I don't know anything about him. I've seen like 3 or 4 of his vids and nothing in them made me think he was racist so that's all I know. I'm going off what I see as a growing trend in the gaming community to view socially unacceptable words/phrases as something that should be said just to be edgy and troll people rather than because they actually mean them.
Maybe most people who do that really are legitimately racist/sexist etc. (even if they don't recognize it), especially if they affiliate with right wing politics, but I think also a lot of them just think they're being anti-authority and think liberal feel-good, be nice to people politics is stupid/cringy or whatever.
GHG
Member
But you've seen the video this topic is about right?
"Nothing to make you think he was racist..." no sir.
King Tubby
Member
I didn't point them out to illustrate a "lost cause", though. I'm trying to pinpoint the fallacy in using ignorance as a defense here. The same arguments that people are using to excuse PewDiePie's act as borne of ignorance rather than racism could also apply to them, in theory. What they did is more obviously disturbing, but it also isn't that far removed from PewDiePIe paying people to hold up signs that say "Kill the Jews."
Yet what they did is easy to condemn, while with PewDiePie you have people hemming and hawing and trying to find excuses for him.
UberTag
Member
There's a reason. And it should be readily apparent what that reason is BECAUSE they say they know nothing about him.
No, no, no. I'm just saying the read that PDP's use is some deep power commentary probably isn't accurate. He's not that bright. He's just a piece of shit using it as a replacement for one of the terms you listed because he probably uses the word all the time with friends in that situation or for ANYTHING negative.
I agree the use of that word is a racist act and "it's just a word" is nonsense.
When I was younger, everyone was using the term 'gay' to refer to something negatively. This was homophobic. As I got older and gay rights progressed in the country, people stopped doing this because of both public pressure and realizing it was a shitty thing to do. This doesn't stop people from doing it online and in gaming to the same degree. These people know that it's wrong because they generally don't say these words in public, but feel safe and free to use them in online and gaming communities.
How the hell is this man 40?
2 thoughts:
One, racists stick together.
Two, some people have a reflex to protect white people from accusations of racism no matter what they know or don't know. In other words, racists stick together.
Has people only just learnt that Boogie falls in the right side of the spectrum more than anywhere else?
Can't believe there are people who still thinks he is a centrist. A centrist in my definition is someone who actually condemns wrong things from far left and far right. He is using this ''Lets all be friend'' Bullshit to actually tolerate racism and hatred in this world, using ''the nice guy'' agenda since its suits his business and reputations and try to remain ''calm'' when the situation is grave enough for decent to be vocal against racism.
Have you actually noticed he comes with this ''Lets all calm down'' narrative when racists are caught for their hatred (JonTron, and no PDP) and not anytime else?
Fuck that guy and (I am sorry to say this) whoever try to explain why he is ''naive'' and mean ''mean good''
Can't believe there are people who still thinks he is a centrist. A centrist in my definition is someone who actually condemns wrong things from far left and far right. He is using this ''Lets all be friend'' Bullshit to actually tolerate racism and hatred in this world, using ''the nice guy'' agenda since its suits his business and reputations and try to remain ''calm'' when the situation is grave enough for decent to be vocal against racism.
Have you actually noticed he comes with this ''Lets all calm down'' narrative when racists are caught for their hatred (JonTron, and no PDP) and not anytime else?
Fuck that guy and (I am sorry to say this) whoever try to explain why he is ''naive'' and mean ''mean good''
What, you don't know any 40 year olds with life-size replica Keyblades?
I'll add a third one: some gamers tend to have this stupid ass gatekeeping mindset where they don't want people talking about certain things that might make their hobby look bad and just want to stay positive about FUN. Usually staying positive means being delusional.
Death Penalty
Member
NHarmonic.
Member
I'm mind blown at the recurring mental gymnastics involving someone that can't be racist and ignorant at the same time. Didn't know they were mutually exclusive.
So we should be kinder to PDP because he is not racist, he is just ignorant or stupid (even after doing a racist act)... ok.
Doesn't make any sense.
Tony Redgrave
Member
This right here. Why are some people acting like this guy is living in some pop culture bubble and he's just using the word because he learned it from songs, movies and games and he "doesn't know better"? Swedish or not, this is an digital literate grown ass man who's been making content focused on an huge English talking audience for years, he's been called out for making holocaust jokes no less, he knows what the n-word means and he used it in the video in a clear vitriolic way.
There's.no.excuse.for.his.behavior.
He's not some misguided youth who doesn't know better and people suggesting it under nebulous pretenses like "he doesn't understand the real meaning of the world because he's European" should rethink their statements because what this guy truly needs is to be called out for this bullshit.
King Tubby
Member
You could write a whole dissertation on the matter. I usually think about a quote by Mos Def in the documentary Richard Pryor: I Ain't Dead Yet, #*%$#@!!
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