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[Hanmik]

I remember WindowsCentral wrote this in their Review

OH NO, IT HAS LOOT CRATES!

My exact reaction. After all, the first thought here is microtransactions. Thankfully, I was hasty, and at least for now it seems there is no upsell.

You buy them with in-game credits, and if you don't have enough, you simply get a polite message telling you so. No coercion to go to the Microsoft Store and spend real money, just a polite reminder you're too poor and to go back and win some more dough.

To get you going, there's a good chance returning players will just get a whole bunch of crates for free. VIP members get three special crates to open with higher quality content, and if you're a Forza veteran, you'll be rewarded for your loyalty with a raft of freebies.
But what's actually inside the crates? You get mods. Lots and lots of mods.

Mods can be a game changer since some alter the performance of your car in the race. Others reward you with an extra bounty for achieving certain things, or in the case of some of the VIP ones, you get double credits just for showing up. It's not always making your life easier, though, as some of the rewards come for challenging yourself and making a race harder.

Early on, in particular, using credit boosting mods is a great way to bump your Forza bank balance and give you a better chance to get that ride you really want. A pro tip as well is to install the Forza Hub app on your Xbox One or Windows 10 PC. It's not enabled yet, but every so often just for logging into it, you'll get free credits from the developer. Free credits are the best credits.

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-motorsport-7

they made it sound like it was no big deal..? is it a big deal?

 

[Audioboxer]

Can't wait for loot boxes to have loot boxes!

Sadly most of gaming will be okay with this. Gotta love that corporate worship.

They already do in F2P games. Neverwinter, the MMO, has lootboxes inside lootboxes. A lot of the loot that drops from in-game dungeons is RNG inside RNG as well. There are some arguments to excuse some of it in F2P games, but the concept of "F2P" is even under threat these days. Many games are going F2P because they can skip some of the arguments that come with a $60 product needing to be mostly playable, and run right to "pay to win cause our game is F2P bro". You end up almost needing to drop hundreds of $ in some of these "F2P" games to keep having fun. Expect more and more games to go F2P in the coming months/years as it gives so much of a defensive forcefield to produce fuckery and preying tactics. Many gamers get awkward around wrapping their mind around criticising something that is "F2P".

People in this topic should explore this one from yesterday ~ http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1440188

This is getting out of control in $60 games, let alone the industry in general. Pre-order season passes, microtransactions, lootboxes, paid mods, space bux, paid for online. What can we charge for next? Maybe add pay as you go tariffs to controllers so that after x amount of hours instead of just needing to charge the battery, you need to deposit $1 to continue using your controller.

But don't you know developers and publishers are literally starving? Yeah, I'm sure if there is really bad wealth inequality it's the publisher's shitty contracts with the devs, not the gamers not handing enough money head over heels to someone. Blizzard, EA, Activision and others cannot possibly make this game without all this added bullshit! Ok.

 

[Falchion]

Wow, so you won't be rewarded for turning the assists how you like without the mods? That's awful.

 

[le.phat]

You really think this game is the precedent?...

No. I'm just pointing out that we're not over the hump yet. This edition will set the precedent for the Forza franchise. This is something you must be aware of when buying into these practices.

 

[BigEmil]

Gaming industry becoming more and more disgusting

Yet gamers will still support this shit smh smh

 

[ebullientprism]

Also it is shady as SHIT that companies dont get the real micro-transactions going till some time after launch.

Fuck them extra hard for that bullshit.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

Can I win 3d trees in the loot boxes?

 

[Tempy]

I'd really rather have microtransactions instead of lootcrates, as you know what you'll get when you pay for it (e.g. a Porsche), rather than potentially something you don't want or already have.

Though reading this I'm not quite sure this does anything much different from other implementations of lootcrates.

 

[danowat]

they made it sound like it was no big deal..? is it a big deal?

I think the shifting of game mechanics that have been in numerous iterations of the game behind loot crates is a fairly big deal.

Gaming industry becoming more and more disgusting

Yet gamers will still support this shit smh smh

I brought the game (for 3300 Rubles), but will NOT every partake in any loot crate BS that costs real money, is that still bad?

 

[Toadthemushroom]

I remember WindowsCentral wrote this in their Review



https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-motorsport-7

they made it sound like it was no big deal..? is it a big deal?

Even if there was no upsell (though not only have Turn10 confirmed to Ars that they will sell them for paid-with-real-money Tokens) it's still designed to program players into spending more time on the game long after they've learned anything new. Or you could argue that they are doing so to gain the ability to try something new - you might really want a particular car in the set to try out on a whole bunch of race courses and weather types.

We definitely need to see whether these mods are thrown in with cars and driver outfit items in loot box sets. If they are then it's especially obvious that they are there to feed back in to the game's loot box systems.

 

[Synth]

Winners don't do drugs, son.

Forza series is one of the greatest and biggest racing franchises nowadays.

@topic: well, this exists on Forza series at least since Forza 5. And honestly, I had never bought a single token. So, yeah... not a biggie.

I've been fine with all previous token systems in Forza games, as they have never actually had any effect on how I've played the game and unlocked content. I'm actually all for letting people buy their way through progress is they wish, so long as it's not having a direct effect on other players (like buying a powerful weapon for pvp)

This one is different though. You can't simply buy the outfits, and need to roll lootboxes in hope of unlocking them. This is quite clearly done because people would otherwise just buy the outfit they want, rather than start spending token Overwatch-style trying to roll the item they want.

No. I'm just pointing out that we're not over the hump yet. This edition will set the precedent for the Forza franchise. This is something you must be aware of when buying into these practices.

I'd argue that the purchase of tokens (and their use on lootboxes) sets the precedent for Forza, not the purchase of the game itself. Trust me, if the game flopped they wouldn't take "hmm, it was the lootboxes" as the message from it. We've seen this plenty of times in the past (mostly from Capcom, lol).

 

[Majukun]

welcome to the new videogame industry guys,hope you like what you give your contribution in creating when you were saying things like "oh but all you have to do is not use them"

the only solution was to not buy games with microtransactions, but you couldn't avoid buying your favorite game and keeping the money in your pocket just for a while.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I couldn't understand why we constantly needed new Forza games, but it's all becoming clear now.

 

[Complicated]

That's some clickbait for sure. You can "buy" the things with in-game currency. Microtransactions can be turned off in the menu. They're launching without microtransactions to ensure the game progression isn't too severe for people who don't buy things.

I don't see how anything about that is a new low.

 

[FutureLarking]

Government regulation can't come soon enough. It's up to you, Europe.

And can we hurry up and do it before Brexit so it gets rolled into UK law - can't happen soon enough!

That's some clickbait for sure. You can "buy" the things with in-game currency. Microtransactions can be turned off in the menu. They're launching without microtransactions to ensure the game progression isn't too severe for people who don't buy things.

I don't see how anything about that is a new low.

What you used to be able to do for free to get rewarded for now requires you to spend points, otherwise you don't get rewarded. Now, you don't *have* to spend monies to spend points, but you'll be sure it'd be a whole lot simpler. Otherwise, what's the point? The only point of the change is to not break an economy that gets to now be funded by real monies.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

That's some clickbait for sure. You can "buy" the things with in-game currency. Microtransactions can be turned off in the menu. They're launching without microtransactions to ensure the game progression isn't too severe for people who don't buy things.

I think it's more likely that they are launching without microtransactions because they need to analyse user data to balance the system, and they are only going to get enough user data from launch day onwards when there's an influx of hundreds of thousands of users interacting with the Prize Crate systems.

Happy to be told otherwise. Maybe it's a mixture of both. Maybe I'm too cynical.

 

[The Boat]

Loot boxes are a fucking cancer.

 

[wapplew]

No. I'm just pointing out that we're not over the hump yet. This edition will set the precedent for the Forza franchise. This is something you must be aware of when buying into these practices.

We are well over the hump.
Have you seen lastest NPD analysis on agent of mayhem? You can't launch a game without loot box if you want moderate success nowadays.

 

[JlNX]

From the article:

I don't see whats different in that quote, 6 had it's micros added after launch as well and was also balanced before they were implemented.

The direct removal of the extra CR system, where drivers would earn more for using less assists etc, and putting it behind a paywall is VERY different from 6's implementation.

Oh ok this is what I missed, kinda shitty but I don't really see how it would result in a title or an article like that.

 

[Goodacre0081]

Forza 7 |OT| Hit the GaaS

 

[ViciousDS]

I fucking hated mods in 6.....looks like 7 is another pass and we again wait for Horizon 4......why am I not surprised.

 

[Dubz]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Games have cost $60 since 2004. Game development costs have risen exponentially. They gotta make their money somewhere if gamers aren't going to pay more thank $60 for games.

 

[synce]

I see the race has already begun to see how many gameplay elements you can lock behind legalized gambling.

 

[Complicated]

I think it's more likely that they are launching without microtransactions because they need to analyse user data to balance the system, and they are only going to get enough user data from launch day onwards when there's an influx of hundreds of thousands of users interacting with the Prize Crate systems.

Happy to be told otherwise. Maybe it's a mixture of both. Maybe I'm too cynical.

They're doing it because Forza 5 launched with them, and the progression was too punishing to get new cars in a reasonable time. They quickly changed the progression and fixed the issue, but I'm sure they don't want a repeat.

 

[TVexperto]

Microsoft gonna Microsoft
Cant wait for more insane lootboxes in PUBG

 

[leeh]

I've been fine with all previous token systems in Forza games, as they have never actually had any effect on how I've played the game and unlocked content. I'm actually all for letting people buy their way through progress is they wish, so long as it's not having a direct effect on other players (like buying a powerful weapon for pvp)

Me too. I remember the rants about it on here but as it never effected the game and how I play, it wasn't a big deal.

Now they're taking away bonuses for racing without assists, that's shitty T10, really shitty. I'm fucking peeved at this, as someone who races with no assists.

What's my incentive for racing with no assists now? Why punish the people who're good at this game? FU T10.

I'm still buying F7 though, so you win.

Although, this could be an MS directive. If so, I apologise greatly T10, you're fantastic developers, and FU MS for ruining an aspect about one of my favorite games.

 

[Audioboxer]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Games have cost $60 since 2004. Game development costs have risen exponentially. They gotta make their money somewhere if gamers aren't going to pay more thank $60 for games.

And many can refute that. Look at the size of the gaming industry, the number of players, the marketing deals (IP branding/toys/figures/clothing/video content), the millions of copies sold across multiple platforms and how insanely rich and wealthy the big publishers are.

As I said above if you want to point out slave like conditions for developers then you can point to the corporate greed of the publishers/contracts they dish out, not the gamers not handing over enough money to save this industry from poverty/collapsing in on itself.

 

[danowat]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Games have cost $60 since 2004. Game development costs have risen exponentially. They gotta make their money somewhere if gamers aren't going to pay more thank $60 for games.

Without using shady psychological hooks would be preferable.

 

[Toadthemushroom]

They're doing it because Forza 5 launched with them, and the progression was too punishing to get new cars in a reasonable time. They quickly changed the progression and fixed the issue, but I'm sure they don't want a repeat.

I guess it's the same thing. They don't want to release with poor balancing, so it's better to see how people interact with the systems at launch and then tweak them to include paid-tokens based on that interaction. Given these systems are all about driving engagement or sales relative to other factors, data and information about what players are doing in the game is key to them.

 

[Abhor]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Games have cost $60 since 2004. Game development costs have risen exponentially. They gotta make their money somewhere if gamers aren't going to pay more thank $60 for games.

Sure, but that doesn't mean rng lootboxes that should be regulated as gambling get a free pass.

 

[matrix-cat]

Also it is shady as SHIT that companies dont get the real micro-transactions going till some time after launch.

Fuck them extra hard for that bullshit.

No microtransactions at launch so the reviewers won't complain about them, then just patch them in a week or two later and watch that whale money roll in.

 

[Beartruck]

Can't wait for loot boxes to have loot boxes!
.

It'll be like when you get a scratch off and you win a free ticket.

 

[Greigor The Fellhand]

Sure, but that doesn't mean rng lootboxes that should be regulated as gambling get a free pass.

ya, loot boxes is gambling and its only a matter of time before it gets classified by the government as such. And pushing gambling on minors is bad.

only way I think they could fudge it is how Magic the gathering and tading card games operate. technically a booster pack is gambling

 

[Synth]

Me too. I remember the rants about it on here but as it never effected the game and how I play, it wasn't a big deal.

Now they're taking away bonuses for racing without assists, that's shitty T10, really shitty. I'm fucking peeved at this, as someone who races with no assists.

What's my incentive for racing with no assists now? Why punish the people who're good at this game? FU T10.

I'm still buying F7 though, so you win.

Although, this could be an MS directive. If so, I apologise greatly T10, you're fantastic developers, and FU MS for ruining an aspect about one of my favorite games.

Well, the incentive of racing without assists is knowing that you don't suck...

I'm not actually mad about that aspect. Sure it's cool having some bonuses for turning assists off, but logically that'd be factored into the economy anyway, so it's just as arguable that they were actually punishing weaker players that needed them to enjoy the game before.

It's actually placing content behind the lootboxes that bugs me. If I could unlock everything in the manner I usually would in all prior games, I'd just do what I did in FM6 and ignore their existence. That's not really an option here if I actually want to access all the game's content.

 

[Dubz]

Sure, but that doesn't mean rng lootboxes that should be regulated as gambling get a free pass.

I agree. I actually wish games would just be $75 and ditch all the microtransactions.

 

[Fortinbras]

I remember WindowsCentral wrote this in their Review

https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-motorsport-7

they made it sound like it was no big deal..? is it a big deal?

Turn 10 really want the loot box money. It's going to be a few months before microtransactions are introduced. That's been the Forza way for years.

Even VIPs earn fewer credits now. The 100% credit bonus has been replaced with consumable mod cards. You only get 5 which can be used 5 times each.

 

[kpaadet]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Games have cost $60 since 2004. Game development costs have risen exponentially. They gotta make their money somewhere if gamers aren't going to pay more thank $60 for games.

I would rather buy a $70 game than a $60 one filled with micro transactions that might affect game design and cater to the gambling side of some people. But I'm probably in the minority.

 

[Complicated]

I'm all for getting loot boxes completely out of games, or more realistically; regulated by the government. I'm just skeptical as to why credit boosters you can get with the credits you're boosting are the "new low" of loot box implementation.

 

[E92 M3]

Oh wow, I had no idea they removed the ability to earn extra credits by changing settings. I always maxed that out...

 

[FearlessBelgian]

Price of the loot box are ridiculously high ... 100.000 credits for a good crate , you need more than 1 hour of gameplay for earning 100.000 credits...

 

[Roberto Larcos]

That's not the point of this thread. The main issues that surround this type of thing are how it might effect game design and the fact that it introduces gambling mechanics to young children who will lack the maturity to be able to deal with something like this properly.

Honestly, I think if game publishers/developers want to introduce this type of shit into their games then it should mean that the game is automatically rated 18+ (or whatever the legal age for gambling is in each country). Take the hard line and they will soon start thinking twice about it.

It needs to start being classified as gambling.

This would be my solution. I'm sure it'll happen eventually, it'll just take a bit of time for the media at large to start hammering away at the issue.

Until then, for me at least, I won't buy a new copy of a game that includes lootbox in any form.

 

[killroy87]

ACG mentioned this in the review, and emphasized how real money was not an option (and that he’d update if it changed). Kind of scummy of them to go this route, be the good guys at first and then start charging money.

 

[Eumi]

I'm going to play devils advocate here.

Games have cost $60 since 2004. Game development costs have risen exponentially. They gotta make their money somewhere if gamers aren't going to pay more thank $60 for games.

Im a consumer. It’s not on me to accept crap for issues the developers have.

If I don’t want to buy a game because of micro transactions or lootboxes, I won’t. If I want to voice my opinion that I dislike these things, I will.

They’re supposed to be making games I want to play. If they can’t make a profit that’s not the fault of the consumer.

 

[Audioboxer]

No microtransactions at launch so the reviewers won't complain about them, then just patch them in a week or two later and watch that whale money roll in.

Yeah, that is scummy as fuck. It works in this industry too as everyone is chasing zero-hour clicks so half the reviews are rushed and shat out as it is. Can't even test MP? Who cares, just get that review out so people will click and rush to your score.

In an industry where hundreds of thousands if not millions literally pre-order something without knowing how it's going to review, reviews are somewhat dulling in importance anyway. Hence why journalists are caught in that cycle of trying to get reviews out 0.5 seconds after an embargo lifts (embargoes, something else that have gotten worse over the years from special "review events" to everything being a release day embargo to prevent anyone knowing anything before those pre-orders ship from retailers).

The devs and pubs are swimming in an industry heavily saturated with impatience. Whether it's needing everything day 1, or being okay paying for DLC content months if not a year+ in advance without even knowing what it is (season passes), and all the booster packs, pay2win options and skip this insane grind for something by giving us money for keys for an RNG chance.

Time is money in the gaming industry, as it is true in the modern times there is so much content that the average gamer will complete like 2% in their lifetime. Just ask people what their current backlog is like. Probably tens of games if not hundreds. Why do we even own all these games in our backlog if we'll never play them? I ask myself that when I look at my collection of PS3 games I haven't even played yet.

 

[LordOcidax]

This news is coming out before the reviews.... thats bad... really bad.

 

[PackAPunchedMick]

I am a self proclaimed whale in paragon but this kind of shit in a full priced retail title is fucking disgusting.

This news is coming out before the reviews.... thats bad... really bad.

Windows Central 11/10.

 

[dose]

More loot box shit in another $60 game. Disgusting.

Yep. Terrible trend.

 

[danowat]

This news is coming out before the reviews.... thats bad... really bad.

The reviews are already out?

 

[Gator86]

No microtransactions at launch so the reviewers won't complain about them, then just patch them in a week or two later and watch that whale money roll in.

By and large, reviewers don't care. Look at NBA 2K. It's fucking disgusting with their VC scam and it got solid reviews with the exception of the one that 2K tried to pressure the site into changing.

 

[GHG]

The reviews are already out?

Most outlets are giving themselves more than 24 hours before giving the game a score.

No doubt once the review scores are all in they will flick the switch and allow the loot boxes to be bought with real money.