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[Dre3001]

I've never bought a loot box and doubt I'll start now.

Will be interesting to see how this affects up the game economy. Money has never been an issue with forza. I've got like 400 million in Forza 6 with nothing to use it on, and probably gave away a few hundred million in horizon 3 for the same reason.

This is what I meant with my earlier post.

Yes you get a much bigger bonus for playing without assists but I don't think it makes a huge difference by the time you are atleast halfway through the game.

If you are finishing top 3 in every race, with or without assists you should be loaded with credits by the time you are atleast halfway through.

I'm not in favor of the whole "pay to win" but I think forza is nowhere close to other games in this regard.

 

[farisr]

What is funny about stuff like this is that gamers hate it. But then they love it too because they buy all of this stuff giving the publisher more revenue

"$50 pizza? That's ridiculous! Pizza places need to be called it and....."

*transaction complete*

No, the gamers who hate it don't buy it, the hardcore fans of the franchise with disposable incomes end up spending hundreds and thousands of dollars and end up making up (and then some) for the folks that didn't buy it.

 

[LordOcidax]

For people that are having hard time to understand.. This.. is gone.

 

[JaggedSac]

So you can turn ABS off in options but won't get a credit boost unless you've got the ABS off mod equipped, is that correct?

That's rather shitty as it needlessly limits your credit making potential (to push you towards paid tokens, no doubt),

That depends, if the base credit amount paid out for races didn't change. Did it or did it not change in 7?

 

[Trup1aya]

Question is, how has the game economy changed? If they are now giving the same amount of credits as having all assists off, where is the harm? Has someone done the analysis on how much credits races give in relation to the items that can be purchased with said credits?

The game economy has inarguably changed because being skilled allowed for faster progression. Now faster progression is tied to being luckier or spending more money.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Can't wait for senators to get a whiff of this shit and regulate the fuck out of child gambling

 

[GHG]

Wtf dude? I'm not defending it I sinply have no problem with it.

Yes there's obviously something wrong with people who are able to play at higher skill levels being rewarded accordingly.

You level the playing field by incentivising those who aren't as good to try and get better, not by nerfing the rewards for those who do happen to be better.

 

[foltzie1]

I'm surprised that ESRB ratings dont require gambling-like mechanics to be listed as Mature.

 

[LordOcidax]

Yes there's obviously something wrong with people who are able to play at higher skill levels being rewarded accordingly.

You level the playing field by incentivising those who aren't as good to try and get better, not by nerfing the rewards for those who do happen to be better.

Exactly

 

[R_thanatos]

What i reallise dislike is the fact that loot boxes are in this game ( when they could be simple modifiers ) but i , in fact , hate more that it doesn't have MT at launch and they plan to mess up their game with it later.

 

[NullPointer]

So they replace what was a simple and accessible assist system with a crystal clear risk/reward structure, in order to push players into making interacting with modpacks a regular part of their play sessions.

All of these games warping their own systems to get players to make regular visits to their in-game stores is fucking gross. I don't want to visit your storefront or get mired in your RNG unlocks and crate openings or stop to wonder which events will net me the best virtual currency - I just want to play the damn game.

 

[VincentMatts]

This is what I meant with my earlier post.

Yes you get a much bigger bonus for playing without assists but I don't think it makes a huge difference by the time you are atleast halfway through the game.

If you are finishing top 3 in every race, with or without assists you should be loaded with credits by the time you are atleast halfway through.

I'm not in favor of the whole "pay to win" but I think forza is nowhere close to other games in this regard.

Ive never paid for loot boxes except in Halo5 and thats because i wanted to get certain skins. I dont see myself putting a dime in loot boxes in this game. I dont care if im not the best at Forza, i play for fun. If the game prevents me from progressing because of it, then id have an issue with it.

 

[Fishook]

I hate loot boxes and the endless grind. But after playing Forza 7 for a few hours its doesn't bother me whatsoever as a single player gamer, who just wants to race a few cars and unlock a few cars every so often.

I can understand peoples frustrations playing multiplayer and have a must have car. Its not like every car costs £1 million plus credits.

 

[farisr]

That depends, if the base credit amount paid out for races didn't change. Did it or did it not change in 7?

Even if base credit is the same, the option to modify it freely and earn more is gone, which is shitty. Even I, as a filthy casual, played around with those race modifiers to be able to earn credits faster. That was part of the game, this "addition" actively makes the game worse for people who liked doing that and is effectively decreasing the rate that they were able to earn credits with.

 

[Trup1aya]

What i reallise dislike is the fact that loot boxes are in this game ( when they could be simple modifiers ) but i , in fact , hate more that it doesn't have MT at launch and they plan to mess up their game with it later.

They aren't messing up the game later with it.

It's messed up now.

Later when they add it, the economy won't change. You also have the option to remove any mention of them. But you still wont get bigger payouts for turning off assists and will still have rely on RNG to do what was previously handled via skill.

 

[wapplew]

I hope 10 years from now we can all look back at paid loot boxes and say ''Glad that shit isn't around today.'' rather than ''Can't believe we didn't stop it back then.''

Why do people keep buying them....I can't...help...

10 years from now publisher will invent new business practices and we will say "remember loot boxes, those were good days"

 

[Daffy Duck]

I was surprised to see loot boxes in this game as I hadn’t played Forza 6, it’s just another game stuffed with needless lootboxes.

I wish they would fuck off and die a long slow painful death, but they aren’t going anywhere.

I will just ignore them in Forza 7.

For people that are having hard time to understand.. This.. is gone.

No it’s not? I was able to change driver assists and stuff in the menu lat night.

 

[Audioboxer]

For a response to your post, you can either wait 72 hours or purchase a response box. Each response box has a chance to include a relevant rebuttal:

1. Bronze Response Box: $2.50
2. Silver Response Box: $9.99
3. Gold Response Box: $15.99 [BEST VALUE!]

Reminds me of this

In a $60 game.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

I was surprised to see loot boxes in this game as I hadn’t played Forza 6, it’s just another game stuffed with needless lootboxes.

I wish they would fuck off and die a long slow painful death, but they aren’t going anywhere.

I will just ignore them in Forza 7.

When you ‘just ignored them’ in 6 it led to them cutting more features from the base game to put in boxes in 7. Just ignoring it now will mean they’ll cut something else from 7 to put in boxes in 8..... and so on and so on

 

[LordOcidax]

I was surprised to see loot boxes in this game as I hadn’t played Forza 6, it’s just another game stuffed with needless lootboxes.

I wish they would fuck off and die a long slow painful death, but they aren’t going anywhere.

I will just ignore them in Forza 7.



No it’s not? I was able to change driver assists and stuff in the menu lat night.

The Difficulty bonus....

 

[Ricerocket]

No it’s not? I was able to change driver assists and stuff in the menu lat night.

See that big +85% credit? It's now 0%.

It's a change from previous to push token sales. Like Destiny 2 changing permanent shaders to one time uses. The future of GaaS makes gaming look so bad when slowly, pubs are making changes that nudge folks spending more money on things that were typically there before.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

The Difficulty bonus....

I find it somewhat amusing how many people have tried to defend it without bothering to read the article or at least the OP

 

[R_thanatos]

They aren't messing up the game later with it.

It's messed up now.

Later when they add it, the economy won't change. You also have the option to remove any mention of them. But you still wont get bigger payouts for turning off assists and will still have rely on RNG to do what was previously handled via skill.

i don't deny that. i'm arguing that it'll be worse later.
If the preview from windows central is correct , right now there is no incentive to buy with money , but you canbe sure that once it happens, that fact will no longer be true and the experience for the end user will be worse.

Oh yeah it's messed up , but unfortunately forza 7 hasn't reached it's final form yet

 

[Dre3001]

For those who have played it, does F7 increase the credit payout per race in comparison to F6?

 

[VincentMatts]

No it’s not? I was able to change driver assists and stuff in the menu lat night.

I think he means the credits you earn from changing it

 

[DJ_Lae]

In concept I don't have a huge problem with these mods as they're the same as in Forza 6 (did 5 have them too? I can't remember) and provide some little modifiers for each race if you so choose. And if they're anything like 6 they're pretty much handed out like candy for free.

However, they fucked them up by removing the bonus for disabling assists. These mods should stack with that.

 

[Markoman]

I really don't like the "just don't buy them" attitude. That's what got us into this shitshow in the first place. It will only get worse from here.

"Just don't buy the horse armor"
"Just don't buy the season pass"
"Just don't buy a deluxe edition"

Whenever I go on a little PSN tour, I see 3 version of each game which also feature some ingame currency. Yesterday for the first time I wasn't sure if a certain sale I was looking at is for a full game/ add-on (Battlefield 1 Revolution).

GaaS is a plausible idea in concept, but it's already poisoned because we associate it with loot boxes and all the other bullshit.

A service should reward loyal customers not exploit their stupidity.

 

[BruceCLea]

Games as a service

 

[IISANDERII]

You make extra credits now choosing the lenght of the race. I'm fine with removing rewards for assists as people who can't drive without them can earn same amount as people playing without assists.

Except that you can earn more. If you you use some of your earnings for the coin doubler.

 

[JaggedSac]

Even if base credit is the same, the option to modify it freely and earn more is gone, which is shitty. Even I, as a filthy casual, played around with those race modifiers to be able to earn credits faster. That was part of the game, this "addition" actively makes the game worse for people who liked doing that and is effectively decreasing the rate that they were able to earn credits with.

What if the base credit payout is more than in previous games? Seems like this would be easy to quantify since all games are out in the wild to test.

Class B race on track A for 3 laps in Forza 6 with all assists off = X amount of credits

Class B race on track A for 3 laps in Forza 7 = Y credits

 

[Xater]

Changing the difficulty or terms of a single race in exchange for a higher CR payout will sound familiar to Forza fans, because this used to simply be a standard thing you could do whenever you wanted. Players could manually add or remove certain assists—like "driving line" marks of where you should accelerate and brake—and get more CR per race for having fewer assists. That's no longer the case. You can still adjust the assists as you see fit, but you won't be rewarded for doing so... unless you have the right mod in your inventory.

WTF? You can keep your garbage game. I hope this shit ires back for them so I don't have to fear for Horizon 4.

 

[VincentMatts]

Id be ok with it if all the dlc was free. But im pretty sure that aint the case, is it?

 

[depward]

Loot boxes or blind pulls or whatever the hell you want to call them are the worst thing to happen to video games.

They're also prevalent in toys now, which feeds this weird kid gambling addiction and makes this time of thing "normal" in a child's every day life.

This is gross. An evolution of loot boxes. I will not be purchasing this game based on this scummy practice.

 

[KageMaru]

How so? in F6 for example the more assists you had on, the less credits you earned. This type of stuff has been there for a while now.

I don't have the game but from what it says in the article, you no longer earn extra credit by disabling assists.

 

[robotrock]

I wish with these driving sims, they would just have every car unlocked immediately

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Considering they say up front you can 100% disable the visibility of any future token purchasing, I think it's not a new low.

That was kind of my point

 

[EBE]

In concept I don't have a huge problem with these mods as they're the same as in Forza 6 (did 5 have them too? I can't remember) and provide some little modifiers for each race if you so choose. And if they're anything like 6 they're pretty much handed out like candy for free.

However, they fucked them up by removing the bonus for disabling assists. These mods should stack with that.

Should they? In Forza 6 I remember turning on Sim handling (for a credit boost) and then equipping a mod that turned on Sim handling (for a credit boost). Getting paid twice for the same thing?

This is just me playing devil's advocate lol

 

[Hydrargyrus]

Disgusting addition and trend.

There's no need to put that in this kind of game.

 

[Daffy Duck]

The Difficulty bonus....

See that big +85% credit? It's now 0%.

It's a change from previous to push token sales. Like Destiny 2 changing permanent shaders to one time uses. The future of GaaS makes gaming look so bad when slowly, pubs are making changes that nudge folks spending more money on things that were typically there before.

I think he means the credits you earn from changing it

I thought I saw an increase in the menu when I changed driving assist like assisted breaking and the such?

But if I am wrong then this is just fucking hilarious and the worst way of crowbarring loot boxes in a game, hahaha.

 

[EvB]

This sounds this a similar setup to Gears of War and Halo Wars 2 ?

Just as Destiny 2 has single use XP boosters that you can buy in game or buy using real money.
Just don't buyt them if you don't want to, you experience isn't going to be diminished.
In all of those games these cards come thick and fast throughout the game, it isn't as if you can ONLY buy them as Micros.

 

[formasymphonic]

That's not the point of this thread. The main issues that surround this type of thing are how it might effect game design and the fact that it introduces gambling mechanics to young children who will lack the maturity to be able to deal with something like this properly.

Honestly, I think if game publishers/developers want to introduce this type of shit into their games then it should mean that the game is automatically rated 18+ (or whatever the legal age for gambling is in each country). Take the hard line and they will soon start thinking twice about it.

It needs to start being classified as gambling.

Government regulation can't come soon enough. It's up to you, Europe.

This is where I'm at tbh. Over the years it's consistently gotten more pervasive and it's all stuff designed exploit behavioural traits that a lot of people won't even realise is being leveraged against them. It starts off innocently with cosmetics and ends up with stuff like this, NBA 2k18 and worse.

It's one thing to go into this stuff as an adult and be able to see these things for what they are - and make and informed decision. But a lot of this stuff is exposed to minors and is becoming the new baseline for what is acceptable.

Gambling shouldn't really be acceptable standard for minors. I know a lot of kids' parents won't care and will let them play anyway - but as has been stated, the industry isn't putting any real effort into self regulation so an outside body is going to need to step in.

 

[a.wd]

My solution is to not spend money and just play the base game.

aaaaand were done here. anyone for schwarma?

 

[Rumblebones]

I hope the EU gets around to banning this godawful practice.

 

[tuxfool]

A service should reward loyal customers not exploit their stupidity.

Stupid people are more loyal people, usually.

 

[Xater]

Id be ok with it if all the dlc was free. But im pretty sure that aint the case, is it?

Hahaha of course not. Please buy the car pass, and potential expansions.

 

[Fortinbras]

I thought I saw an increase in the menu when I changed driving assist like assisted breaking and the such?

But if I am wrong then this is just fucking hilarious and the worst way of crowbarring loot boxes in a game, hahaha.

Changing drivatar difficulty increases payouts, disabling assists however does not.

 

[LordOcidax]

aaaaand were done here. anyone for schwarma?

 

[guybrushfreeman]

aaaaand were done here. anyone for schwarma?

How it that a solution to anything when every year it gets worse and worse?

 

[NullPointer]

See that big +85% credit? It's now 0%.

It's a change from previous to push token sales. Like Destiny 2 changing permanent shaders to one time uses. The future of GaaS makes gaming look so bad when slowly, pubs are making changes that nudge folks spending more money on things that were typically there before.

This. Its another perfect example of base game design being warped to push additional (and recurrent) purchases.

Its the opposite of a Quality of Life improvement.

aaaaand were done here. anyone for schwarma?

The base game has been changed. So for or against you're opted in to this new scheme.

 

[DJ_Lae]

Should they? In Forza 6 I remember turning on Sim handling (for a credit boost) and then equipping a mod that turned on Sim handling (for a credit boost). Getting paid twice for the same thing?

This is just me playing devil's advocate lol

I actually don't remember if identical mods stacked in Forza 6 or if the mod gave you a bigger credit bonus than simply disabling the assist itself.

But most of the mods I've gotten in Forza 7 seem to be of the flat % increase variety. Cockpit view and disabling driving lines seem to be a lot rarer.