Salty Rice
Member
Fuck all full price games that have loot box gambling with real money in them.
(Ars Technica) Loot boxes have reached a new low with Forza 7s pay to earn option
- Thread starter Toadthemushroom
- Start date
Fortinbras
Member
Looking forward to the video.
No it's a shitty response to something that they made really shitty which was worthwhile in the previous games. It's par for the course for Turn 10. It's amazing the turn forza games have made from last gen to this gen.It's a light-hearted joke from Dan (Forza dev) having to respond on Twitter to anger about VIP http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=250429988#post250429988
This
Just sounded like something the devs would want to say, but wouldn't dare try to publicly
The lootbox system is a downgrade either way regardless of whether money is being wanted for it or not.
Once they start asking for money for it (which they have stated they will) it goes from downgrade to pure BS.
Maintenance
Member
Maybe I'm getting too old for this shit.
I already can't stand when a game releases with 5 different versions, season passes, "microtransactions", loot boxes... I'm embarrassed even spouting all that crap.
Now, they are actually affecting base gameplay by locking out features that have always been included...
I'm never purchasing this game as it stands. You have to make me happy to get my hard earned money.
It really sucks too because I really enjoy video games. There are very few that even seem to be passionate about just making a good ass game people want to play. All these games feel like they were CREATED by a marketing team. Ugh. I never would have imagined Forza making me want to continue ranting. I'm going to go have a milkshake. I'm finished.
I already can't stand when a game releases with 5 different versions, season passes, "microtransactions", loot boxes... I'm embarrassed even spouting all that crap.
Now, they are actually affecting base gameplay by locking out features that have always been included...
I'm never purchasing this game as it stands. You have to make me happy to get my hard earned money.
It really sucks too because I really enjoy video games. There are very few that even seem to be passionate about just making a good ass game people want to play. All these games feel like they were CREATED by a marketing team. Ugh. I never would have imagined Forza making me want to continue ranting. I'm going to go have a milkshake. I'm finished.
Audioboxer
Member
I meant my fake tag quote on JackAubrey was a joke.
Dan's response is typical deflect and to bring up
As he really enjoys racing, anyone complaining about the change just needs to change their feelings and they too can really enjoy racing!
I think what sucks is the Forza games keep getting better in terms of content/polish, but the MTs and other bollocks seem to ramp up each release. That's why gamers get passionate and angry, great games do not need this level of desperation to sell their souls for an extra $. Reviews and word of mouth for a great game will get you plenty of millions from sales. As will reasonable DLC and after support.
MS have a good thing going with the Horizon/Forza mainline series rotation, and it's a heck of a lot more productive than 1 GT game every 4~6 years. Yes, GT is a sales/brand juggernaut, but if MS/Turn 10 keep at it with the game itself constantly getting better, the higher sales and bigger brand will come. Especially when GT is in rocky waters right now (yes, it'll still sell silly numbers for now).
I also love how Windows Sore features '+ offers in-app purchases' like its a selling point.
Also, I really like while play Horizon 3, in the middle of playing the game that I purchased, it suddenly cuts to a minute long commercial for DLC content, followed 10 minutes later by another minute long commercial for DLC, followed later by a commercial for Forza 7.
in-fucking-game, while Im playing. Its weird that MS thinks this is necessary, when these tactics cause me to avoid doing any business with them at all.
Its all just boxed goods rollin down the assembly line for some of these publishers, and they really care more about a fucking penny than they do the art.
Also, I really like while play Horizon 3, in the middle of playing the game that I purchased, it suddenly cuts to a minute long commercial for DLC content, followed 10 minutes later by another minute long commercial for DLC, followed later by a commercial for Forza 7.
in-fucking-game, while Im playing. Its weird that MS thinks this is necessary, when these tactics cause me to avoid doing any business with them at all.
Its all just boxed goods rollin down the assembly line for some of these publishers, and they really care more about a fucking penny than they do the art.
Crayon
Member
Haha wait does that really happen?
Its fatiguing. Moment to moment.
The new metroid game locks it behind amiibo.
Family Fry
Member
You can get CR increase but its only via drivatar difficulty now. In 6, as you say, you could tweak all your settings for more CR boost.
EDIT Just had a look.
New Racer - Average +0% CR
Above Average +20% CR
Highly Skiller +40% CR
Expert +60% CR
Pro +80%
Unbeatable +100% CR
Yes. I recently downloaded Horizon 3 again and when I started playing I was greated by a Forza 7 commercial.
The problem is they've removed the bonuses for turning off assists.
Now the only way to expedite progress is tied behind a rng/mt scheme.
Now you have to gamble or pay, when before,you just had to be good at the game.
LastGamer84
Member
Won't someone please think of poor MS, How will they ever make money without loot crates?
Yup, happened to me a few days ago. I played the Forza 7 demo and I got that itch to play some Forza Horizon 3, which I hadn't played in a couple months, and a couple hours in, fucking DLC commercials, with no way to skip them either.
NullPointer
Member
That's good to know. Thanks.
Crayon
Member
That's so weird. I think of that as some kind of dark future but I guess the future is now.
How could there be no way to skip?? Omg lol.
Since Overwatch, I've have not bought any games like that. Fuck that.
And I wouldn't really call it loot, it's gambling, plain and simple.
You pay for a chance to get something good. What?! that's ridiculous.
To Far Away Times
Member
I think there should be a clear line enforced between free to play games and full priced games. None of this freemium bullshit.
Audioboxer
Member
It's... GTPlanet but this is a good summary of the goings on in Forza 7 as things stand
Quick snippet about VIP which is causing anger
More @ https://www.gtplanet.net/turn-10-confirms-microtransaction-plans-forza-7/
The loot boxes sound a bit scummy with cars being put in them, but I guess in a... car game, it was always going to be cars.
Quick snippet about VIP which is causing anger
More @ https://www.gtplanet.net/turn-10-confirms-microtransaction-plans-forza-7/
The loot boxes sound a bit scummy with cars being put in them, but I guess in a... car game, it was always going to be cars.
You might have been able to skip the Forza 7 commercial, but the two commercials for DLC content were definitely unskippable, I tried like a madman, pressing every button
ClosingADoor
Member
That sucks, I always used to turn the assists off for extra credit. I can't be bothered with all this lootbox stuff. I just want to race and get some more points if I use harder settings. This was in the game since part one on Xbox.
Put cars or other things in those boxes, not strange "mods" like this.
Put cars or other things in those boxes, not strange "mods" like this.
DangerMouse
Member
Oh wow, that's nuts.
Honest question for my curiosity. What do you want developers/publishers(whoever makes this decision) to do? Obviously the cost of making games is getting out of hand. People seem to want unlimited support and constant delivery of features or installments completely free of charge which is impossible.
At first it was paid add-ons/expansion packs, then DLC/season passes. Now it's microtransactions/loot boxes. If a developer is going to support a game post launch for years afterwards, how should they pay for those expenses?
At first it was paid add-ons/expansion packs, then DLC/season passes. Now it's microtransactions/loot boxes. If a developer is going to support a game post launch for years afterwards, how should they pay for those expenses?
By unskippable DLC adverts do you mean the Hot Wheels branded loading screen?
That's the only DLC advert I see.
NullPointer
Member
Forza 7 already has standard, deluxe and ultimate editions, along with a steady supply of premium DLC to come.
Personally I don't think this has to do with maintenance costs as much as the potential for tapping whales for uncapped, recurrent revenue. I can understand why they add this stuff, but I get off the boat when the core game has to be modified in order to justify them.
There were two, minute long commercials, one for Hot Wheels, and one for Blizzard Mountain (or whatever its called). Also a trailer for Forza 7.
Audioboxer
Member
The millions and millions and millions of dollars they earn via hundreds of thousands/millions of sales and marketing/branding/IP rights/tax relief/etc.
You won't find me one broke or poor as fuck dev/publisher on the brink of extinction releasing games like this. They're all rich as can be. Blizzard/Activision? They could probably buy a whole continent. Sony/MS/Nintendo? Apart from Sony nearly killing PlayStation due to the PS3 costs, they're all swimming in profits. Most other high end-mid tier publishers? Raking it in due to the size of the current games industry, multiple platforms that are "easy" to port to and again all the marketing/brand opportunities for their IPs.
Don't forget HD releases and re-releasing NES/SNES/PS1/PS2/Xbox titles on mass as well. As you said we already have multiple special editions for most games, many going over or near $100 a pop. Pre-orders on season pass content that gets released months down the line. So easy money to sit on in advance. Then there is all the usual microtransactions gamers gave up and accepted years ago. Add to that now loot boxes in MP games, but coming to more and more SP games. The big boys are fine my friend, no ones using the last $1,000 in the bank to struggle to put out their next instalment in the series that's already had multiple instalments.
Hence why they're all swarming around it like flies to shit to milk as much money as they can. Valve did nothing about CSGO skin gambling till the TmarTn/Pro Syndicate scandal... which just lost in the courts so yay, more skin gambling for everyone.
As for your worry of devs shuttering, yeah, read what I just said to PrimeBeef. The companies/publishers/developers we're talking about are swimming in cash.
Smokey_Run
Member
As loot boxes become the accepted method of propping up the financials of the industry, what happens when some government gets around to squashing this shit? I expect we'll see a bunch of studios being shuttered because the industry went all in on some bullshit begging to be regulated.
Remember when politicians were really on a video game violence kick and the industry actually took some initiative to self police in the hopes of avoiding legislation? You'd think they'd see the writing on the wall with loot boxes evenutally being labeled as gambling and start self regulating them before it's too late.
Remember when politicians were really on a video game violence kick and the industry actually took some initiative to self police in the hopes of avoiding legislation? You'd think they'd see the writing on the wall with loot boxes evenutally being labeled as gambling and start self regulating them before it's too late.
SRTtoZ
Member
SWTOR has Loot boxes inside loot boxes.
UberTag
Member
I want them to charge more for the game up front for an unhindered-by-loot box/microtransaction experience. $100. $120. Whatever the cost may be.
Maintenance
Member
Petrae
Member
Microtransactions are NEVER going away, regardless of whether publishers finally raise the MSRP on software or not. Post-purchase revenue streams are standard now, and consumers have shown that theyre happy and willing to pay for loot boxes and other MTs.
For now, the post-purchase revenue streams are healthy enough to keep MSRP increases at bay along with higher-priced Collectors SKUs. The time will inevitably come, though, for publishers to start raising that MSRP... but the post-purchase revenue train will keep on rolling.
This is never happening again. Microtransactions are essentially industry standard now. You dont have to like them or even buy them, but youd better get used to them being in most games.
NullPointer
Member
I remember with Forza 5's token system (at launch -- Turn 10 later changed things for the better), a gaffer calculated how much you'd have to spend (at minimum) if you wanted to unlock all of the base game content with real money:
dengatron said:
Its absurd, but interesting nonetheless.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
I'm not sure about internationally, but the trend in the US is definitely towards greater acceptance of legal gambling. Where would the pressure come from?
The last major violence in videogames moral panic was almost 20 years ago after Columbine. That's old news.
Audioboxer
Member
More devs are going to go F2P before any prices get increased on games. Psychologically the pushback to riddling a $60 game with a "digital STD", aka MTs/lootboxes/gotcha elements, is bad enough. Forza devs are going to enjoy a few weeks of hellfire. They'll probably ride it out.
You try doing all of this in a $100 RRP game and you'll literally have crazy gamers showing up outside your dev studio with boxing gloves on.
That's what you have to understand about the psychology of exploitation. The devs and pubs don't want to ask for more than $60 because it's a really really really accepted RRP. You go higher and not only do you need to try and get the whole industry to accept a higher RRP, your complete monetization fuckery REALLY comes under threat. At $60 you can release Forza 7 as if it's a F2P title, and most reviewers won't say shit and only some gamers will get angry.
Now, if you actually DO release a F2P title, well, then you can REALLY fuck people up. Enjoy individuals spending literally thousands of $ on a single game. Have people defend ANYTHING you do because "hey guys it's F2P, don't give the devs a hard time". So yeah, you'll get more games go F2P to really ramp up the exploiting and preying before you ever see an RRP increase.
I personally hate it when something goes F2P these days, as there isn't really an option of "I'll just spend $60 on this and it will be 1:1 comparable with if I bought it as a $60 game". Well, there is, you do only spend $60 on it and not a cent more. However, my point is most of these games will continually burn through your wallet if you want to try and stay up to date, or keep having fun. Yes, some F2P games are decent with what they do, but so many are simply "digital STDs" that want to spread, exploit and be hell to try and get rid of. It's why the mobile industry is such a cash cow, and why pretty much EVERYTHING is F2P.
Not with the way Turn 10 has treated the Forza Franchise. The only saving grace they have is the horizon games. I would rather have one or two great games than the last 3 forza games. I haven't enjoyed a mainline forza game since 4 and I won't be picking up 7 anytime soon if ever. I have way more faith in the GT franchise even if we only get two games a generation. The only forza game I will be picking up is the next horizon games because they are just great games.
How is it a sales success when Forza is a pack in with the console every holiday? After that, it gets discounted heavily. If not for the the pack in "sales" and heavy discounts, the game would be selling abysmally.
Edit: No surprise Audioboxer is here defending his beloved Forza franchise.
TwiztidElf
Member
I've played every Forza from 1 to 6 and all the Horizons.
But I'm out now.
A combination of franchise fatigue and shit like this. I didn't like the demo that much to be honest either. Something was off about the handling, particularly the Porsche.
But I'm out now.
A combination of franchise fatigue and shit like this. I didn't like the demo that much to be honest either. Something was off about the handling, particularly the Porsche.
Oh man, the next Horizon will be infested with this also. It's bound to happen
I really hope not if it is than I probably won't buy it. It would be a damn shame if that's the case but you are probably right.Oh man, the next Horizon will be infested with this also. It's bound to happen
Hugh Swank
Member
When I buy a game, I buy the base game. If I really like the game, I'll buy additional content (dlc). As far as in-game gear, skins, items, etc. I never ever pay for that shit. If I can't earn it playing the game, I don't get it, period. As long as dumb-asses keep paying, this shit is only going to get worse.
Smokey_Run
Member
Legal gambling for people's over the age of 18 in the US. What if they want all games labeled AO if they include paid loot boxes?
The video game violence fiasco lasted longer than Columbine. The ESA made efforts to increase screenings of M rated purchases near the mid 2000s when people were losing their minds about Grand Theft Auto. Hell, we literally had a Supreme Court case in 2011 saying games were protected under the 1st amendment over violent video games. So I don't know where this "It's old news" comment is coming from.
Also, video games are an easy target for politicians.