The state of NeoGAF

Status
Not open for further replies.
I wonder if it's a coincidence that besada, the one ex-mod who has been singled-out repeatedly in this thread, is also repeatedly singled-out and shit on in prominent alt-right and GG safe spaces.
 
ChaoticBlue said:
what's with all the fucking juniors coming out of the woodwork? lol
Click to expand...
There's a lot of people who really disliked NeoGAF off-site. Probably a couple of them still had accounts and are relishing this moment.

Granted, this is also a pretty significant event for the site, so anyone who has an account would probably come back to see what's going on and give their two cents.


Chariot said:
Time for a Rebuild, eh?

You can (Not) ... ResetEra
Click to expand...
That's pretty cute.
 
CaviarMeths said:
I wonder if it's a coincidence that besada, the one ex-mod who has been singled-out repeatedly in this thread, is also repeatedly singled-out and shit on by prominent alt-right and GG safe spaces.
Click to expand...

I've been mostly staying out of this mess because it's just chaos. But are you implying that people who didn't like Besada are basically in-line with the alt-right and GG?
 
Theecliff said:
even if the allegation isn't true i don't see how you look at the site right now and fucking think this. people are acting next level deluded if they think everything is fine. evilore has handled this terribly. half the website has been taken down for fuck's sake.
Click to expand...

even if the allegation isn't true
Click to expand...
Allegation, that's the word, thank you.
 
Viruz said:
Evilore didn't fuck up at all.
Click to expand...
If we're talking about the incident he had with a female companion, I'm willing to play the wait and see game on that.

If we're talking about the handling of the allegations? It was completely FUBAR. From the initial ignoring of it, to shutting the forum down for two days, to the terrible response and subsequent nuking of the OT while making moderation anonymous, I don't think it could have been handled much worse.

That being said, I'm sticking around to see how things shake out.
 
NahaNago said:
I'd say give it some time. Most of the self righteous stone throwing folks will leave first and then the trolls will get themselves banned. I honestly keep checking my ignore list to see if those folks will leave as well.
Click to expand...

This. If the forum stays up there is a chance you could end up with a gaming focused forum that filters out the nazis and self polices against the thought police saints on the other side.

People might even come to the conclusion that people's experiences inform their world views. Shocking, but possible.

So far as the Evilore stuff goes, if things happened as reported then he did a bad thing and will likely face the consequences for it. I would hope that something sensible is done with the forum in mitigation of that being the case. If you take nothing else away from all this, let it be this: Do your best to protect your personal information on the internet, for fucks sake. We've all said things at times that would get us internet lynched if they were said aloud, posted in the wrong place or read by the wrong person. Nobody is a saint and beware of those who make saints of themselves.
 
Switch Back 9 said:
I've been mostly staying out of this mess because it's just chaos. But are you implying that people who didn't like Besada are basically in-line with the alt-right and GG?
Click to expand...

I'm implying that people who are coming into this thread with that are bringing their talking points from off-site, sure. It's a pattern of specific recurring language. I also noticed the phrase "misread signals" has been used over and over again, despite it being nowhere in EL's statement.

Reminds me of how in the days after Trump's "grab her by the pussy" comments, every Republican pundit and representative used the very specific phrase "locker room talk." It was transparent.
 
CaviarMeths said:
I wonder if it's a coincidence that besada, the one ex-mod who has been singled-out repeatedly in this thread, is also repeatedly singled-out and shit on in prominent alt-right and GG safe spaces.
Click to expand...
I don't know man, it seems irrelevant if besada was apparently abusing mod powers.
 
Link said:
If we're talking about the handling of the allegations? It was completely FUBAR. From the initial ignoring of it, to shutting the forum down for two days, to the terrible response and subsequent nuking of the OT while making moderation anonymous, I don't think it could have been handled much worse.

That being said, I'm sticking around to see how things shake out.
Click to expand...

The thing is, all the moderators walked out, and the thread count was going up massively, it would have been near enough impossible to control. Today's new threads and bumps pales in comparison. Plus I imagine he seeked legal advice before doing anything.

I'm not sure what people were expecting? Him to keep the site open with a million new toxic threads being created, and make a quick post explaining his version of events?

From his point of view he probably feels he did enough by allowing a mod to say that a statement was forthcoming. People in the public eye, tend to do the same thing, i.e remain quiet until they've seeked out legal advice and then prepare a statement.
 
Again, the Waypoint article confirms the allegations as true? Does it not?

There was more context added that gives us some insight, what exactly did the girl lie about?

What more information is needed?
 
ExVicis said:
I don't know man, it seems irrelevant if besada was apparently abusing mod powers.
Click to expand...

Well they all were, apparently, but only one is being named in all of this. Surely there was one other mod who overstepped the boundaries? No?

Nitpicking too, but it's not really abuse of power if that power is being used as intended by the big boss. Prior to this weekend, all of the strict moderation was how EL preferred to run his site.
 
CaviarMeths said:
I wonder if it's a coincidence that besada, the one ex-mod who has been singled-out repeatedly in this thread, is also repeatedly singled-out and shit on in prominent alt-right and GG safe spaces.
Click to expand...

Yes, because threatening to report to authorities and to his workplace someone who has entrusted you with his personal details is a perfectly okay thing to do.
 
I've been on (Neo)Gaf since '99. Don't post as much anymore, because life happened, but I still check it almost daily. It was always a good source of news and tips on popular media.

I feel like the events of the last few days could only have happened to Evilore. More than anything else, social ineptness caused all of this. I'd say that outside the revenge porn (which is definitely criminal in some countries), the things he is accused of aren't even that serious, but his aggressive defending or even bragging about of these types of situations made him look extremely bad.

The pitchfork hive mind cultivated here under Evilore's watch made sure everything came crashing down extra hard. Many of the mods also deserve some blame here, this place has been deteriorating for years now. I've long since avoided certain discussions because people weren't interested in other points of view and would rather accuse you of heinous crimes until you left the thread and/or were banned. That sucked and made this place lose a lot of it's appeal to me, but it still had some worth.

Kinda funny, the only thread I started these last few years was the Dutch Election OT. As far as I could tell, there were no incidents in those 27 pages even though both left and *gasp* right wing people visited it. So let's not pretend it's impossible to have a civilized discussion about politics on the internet.

Air Zombie Meat said:
iapetus was demodded and publicly humiliated because he said he didn't agree with violence. nice way to treat someone thats been moderating this place for a decade.
Click to expand...

I missed this initially, but it still pisses me off. Iapetus has always been one of the best posters in this place, intelligent and polite.
 
Viruz said:
Allegation, that's the word, thank you.
Click to expand...

Why are you so quick to step to his defense looking at his previous actions rofl.

Fucking hilarious these people who barely have any posts since 2013 now they come up here all high and might acting as if their shit dont stink.

Slobbering all over the admins dick. Looking for a mod job perhaps?
 
OCD Guy said:
The thing is, all the moderators walked out, and the thread count was going up massively, it would have been near enough impossible to control. Today's new threads and bumps pales in comparison. Plus I imagine he seeked legal advice before doing anything.

I'm not sure what people were expecting? Him to keep the site open with a million new toxic threads being created, and make a quick post explaining his version of events?

From his point of view he probably feels he did enough by allowing a mod to say that a statement was forthcoming.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what the "right" way to handle it necessarily is, but I feel like there's certainly a lot of self-inflected wounds here. A large chunk of the moderation staff left because they were told a response was coming, and were then all just left in the dark as the forum went down.
 
Jack The Nipper said:
He would have been doing better if OT was open so people have more options to actually talk things other than trying to just hammer out things on him.
Click to expand...
He should have stepped in and reined in OT if that's the case instead of what's been going on. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear there was issues with OT that needed solving and it needed a lot more attention than it got.
 
ExVicis said:
He should have stepped in and reined in OT if that's the case instead of what's been going on. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear there was issues with OT that needed solving and it needed a lot more attention than it got.
Click to expand...

Last time he stepped in to reign in OT was the Andy Signore thread. That didn't work out well.
 
ExVicis said:
He should have stepped in and reined in OT if that's the case instead of what's been going on. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear there was issues with OT that needed solving and it needed a lot more attention than it got.
Click to expand...

There was one post he made where he called out the bullies but that was about it and it was quickly forgotten about. After the demodding of one of the over-zealous Hillary people.
 
RastaMentality said:
what was this about
Click to expand...

.

AALLx said:
My story:

Some poster made a thread calling Summer Lesson problematic.

I chimed in about the separation of reality from imagination.

CrossingEden comes in and denounces developers that make such games.

I said that developers should have the right to make the games they want.

CrossingEden calls people who play Summer Lesson paedophiles and sexual predators.

I argued that saying games make people sexual predators is the same as saying games make people murderers.

CrossingEden argued that there is no point in discussing video game violence because it is different because reasons.

I said that he is being hypocritical about it.

CrossingEden strawmanned me and suddenly made my position as "I support paedophilic content", and then summoned his lapdog besada

besada not only threatened to ban me, but also threatened to report me to authorities as well as report me to my work place (my registered e-mail was from my workplace)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1295029
Click to expand...
 
Link said:
I'm not sure what the "right" way to handle it necessarily is, but I feel like there's certainly a lot of self-inflected wounds here.
Click to expand...

I agree that Evilore did not help his cause and could have done certain things better.

Although the immediate response some people were hoping for was never going to happen. It would be absolutely foolish for anyone to do so when they're held under a microscope.

The issue is that the delay combined with his past history is for many people enough to be considered evidence of guilt.

Ultimately only him and the woman involved really know what happened....
 
CaviarMeths said:
Well they all were, apparently, but only one is being named in all of this. Surely there was one other mod who overstepped the boundaries? No?

Nitpicking too, but it's not really abuse of power if that power is being used as intended by the big boss. Prior to this weekend, all of the strict moderation was how EL preferred to run his site.
Click to expand...
There were others, I'm pretty sure. You're right to focus on besada should be spread around to everyone but besada is an easy face to pin because they have been the one caught the most in overstepping their mod bounds.

But you're right. These abuses all come back to EL and I agree, there should have been a big review and overhaul of moderating and in general. The deification of mods was really the worst thing that could have happened. This all seems to be a move to change that but it really feels like taking a machete to a problem a scapel could solve. EL created this mess as the Site Runner and it feels like right now instead of being fixed it's worse in a different way.
 
Churrasco said:
Seems like you can't read. That's not what is toxic. Labeling anyone who disagrees with you racists, sexists, bigots, or whatever label you come up with is toxic.
Click to expand...

Oh geez.

Nobody is calling you racist if you're not racist.

If you say something racist then you will be called a racist.

You're just reinforcing the idea that you should be allowed to say bad shit without being held accountable.
 
ExVicis said:
He should have stepped in and reined in OT if that's the case instead of what's been going on. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but it's clear there was issues with OT that needed solving and it needed a lot more attention than it got.
Click to expand...

It isn't so hard imo, open it up set some basic rules and let others know and if it doesn't work alter as you go along. This doesn't seem to be a solution as gaming (where a lot of people stay) do not have a place to enjoy and then those who don't do any gaming come here and obviously have nothing to do but get banned or something.

This makes no sense as it is as it hurts everyone...

At least the suicide accounts can have another place to do it thus leaving a potential 50% of the mess out of a place others don't need it. Seems logical to me
 
PhantomThief said:
Unable to load, can you cap a screen?
Click to expand...

Sure thing. Couldn't find the post he was de-modded for though.

iapetusotr5w.png
 
I feel like I'm walking around some abandoned mall that used to be the most popular place in town for people to hang out.
 
QuixoticNeutral said:
I'd like to address this, as I just barely got my foot in the door to keep up with what's been going on with this, and if I had missed everything until logging into NeoGAF today, I would probably have the same opinion: that it isn't clear what's going on, splinter groups never seem to work out for long anyway, the mass account suicides and ban requests do not make this crowd look good, and shutting down Off-Topic and making GAF games-only again might even be a good idea.

Many of my own concerns have been eased (though not all), so I hope to clarify a few things. Also, even as someone who ignored Off-Topic and largely avoided the drama/outrage threads on gaming side, I am not at all convinced that GAF will deliver that kind of environment even with the kind of restructuring that, on paper, caters directly to my tastes.

Note that I'm not directly involved in setting up ResetEra myself, so there's a lot I don't know and am not in a position to talk about.

Over the weekend, it was not clear to anyone whether NeoGAF would come back, or if so, how soon and in what form. (I, for one, spent way too much time trying to grab all the cache/archive links I could to save major threads and some of my own posts for the sake of preservation, since it was already down when I arrived on the scene.) The lack of any communication from EviLore contributed substantially to this. This is the important thing: regardless of what you make of his personal situation or the allegations, everyone understood at once that it was an incredibly fragile situation to have your own self-governing communities/networks live or die by the mercurial hand of someone who could flip the lights off at any time for no reason or take his ball and go home—which, for the people on Off-Topic side, is exactly what happened anyway once GAF came back up.

Naturally, people who wanted to salvage what they loved about this place, with no idea of what the future held, realized two things:

(a) There is no natural substitute for GAF as a catch-all forum that is both a first resort for industry news (making the hovering enthusiast press totally redundant, by my reckoning) and a shared plaza for communities that would, in other forum structures, be totally balkanized;

(b) It's probably a good idea to build a worthy substitute now, right now, while there is enough broad agreement to do it (and enough impatience to keep the communities going with or without NeoGAF) such that it might actually get off the ground, without the usual splintering problems of a few angry people doing it halfheartedly while the rest hang back.

People not in the loop also went directly to the next available point of contact, which was any of the Discord servers that they might have signed up for in a game OT or community thread. Understand that at the time, this was the only convenient way of getting back in touch at all.

Several dozen of these Discord servers rapidly coordinated an effort to get a new place up and running. They made a commitment to the transition well before we had any statement from EviLore or indication of how soon GAF would be back up, because at this point it was unknown whether either of these things were coming. Also, to my knowledge, the red-name mods who resigned from NeoGAF are not the new administration but have stepped back to an advisory capacity to help get things off the ground.

How big is the exodus? Well, I think we'll need to let the dust settle over the next few weeks before we know how committed people are to really moving over, but: those volunteers you depend on to set up game OTs, weekly sales threads, community projects like game clubs, contests, voting threads, Discord channels, and GAF groups on other multiplayer services—they're pretty much all planning to join the move. If none of these things are relevant to your GAF experience, or if you trust the remaining membership here to take its place (there's been a lot of turnover in the past few years anyway), fair enough. Again, we'll know how things look in a couple of weeks, but know that a ton of the volunteer infrastructure driving the big threads here intends to move on.



This is being addressed. The leaks in question were from earlier this weekend and, being in the channel at the time, I can say that they were pretty selectively taken to make the place look bad, and may even have been incited by people looking to cause trouble. There were a lot of incidents of people tugging the channels towards mudslinging of controversial YouTube figures despite specifically being told by others to stop.

If you are concerned about privacy, then yes, I encourage you to hang back for a few weeks and see how things go, as everyone expects ResetEra to be a target for disruption in the early stages. As I understand it, membership will not be an open sign-up in the early stages while they get a system in place to ensure that the people who want to claim the user handles they use on GAF are the right people.

Finally—and this is directed partly at those who, like me, are optimistic about rebuilding elsewhere—I completely agree that the mass account suicides, overflowing outrage, and accusations that those who want to stay with GAF for now are a bunch of abuse enablers do not reflect well on what the departing community will be like. I would like to think we can be better than that. With the information we have, it's a perfectly valid decision for people who don't see any viable substitute to GAF live and operational right now to declare they would like to stay. We shouldn't be casting aspersions on each other just because of a decision to leave or stay, especially as we are not all privy to the same information.

GAF has historically had a massive problem with people who follow news items day by day, hour by hour, jumping to early conclusions, turning those conclusions into their new reality, abandoning all empathy for those who did not keep up and legitimately don't know what's going on, and bullying out the voices calling for some patience and forbearance. And if you're concerned about this repeating over there—well, again, I urge you to wait and see. (I know that I won't stick around with the new environment for long if it inherits all the same toxicity.) Just be aware that staying on NeoGAF might be a hollowed-out experience in the near term.

In the end I'll be going where the best games discussion and coverage will be. In this respect, GAF has historically been unmatched, but I'm not convinced it will remain so, and I suspect the restructuring will have the opposite effect of the one intended and make the conversation worse by driving the core communities away, as the core communities no longer see the stability of this platform as something worthy of trust.
Click to expand...
This is exactly how I read the current situation.
NeoGAF's great value lie with its great communities that were fueled by the contents/discussions brought forth by active members (and the discussion usually were of high quality because the participants really loved a certain argument and thus were knowledgeable about it) which in turn attracted new active members or lurkers who were interested in a subject.
An obvious example is the SalesAge community which is simply unmatched on the entire Internet.
What will happen to NeoGAF if/when part of those communities (I'm talking about the active members) leave?
I doubt NeoGAF can remain the same...
 
Link said:
If we're talking about the incident he had with a female companion, I'm willing to play the wait and see game on that.

If we're talking about the handling of the allegations? It was completely FUBAR. From the initial ignoring of it, to shutting the forum down for two days, to the terrible response and subsequent nuking of the OT while making moderation anonymous, I don't think it could have been handled much worse.

That being said, I'm sticking around to see how things shake out.
Click to expand...

I don't know man, but if I/you had a worldwide business, I don't know how I would react to some twitter/facebook accusations of #metoo?. Maybe talk to my lawyers?

The forum, well we'll see after... no? the accusation are personal.
 
Viruz said:
Allegation, that's the word, thank you.
Click to expand...
...did you even read my post properly? people aren't just taking issue to the allegations themselves but the way he has handled them, hence why i prefaced my post - the thing you highlighted - with a hypothetical where the allegations were irrelevant. you'd have to be fucking deluded to think he's 'done nothing wrong' with the way he's handled the fallout - just look around you. half the website's fucking gone. you don't have to think he sexually assaulted someone to also realise he's messed up big time, from the censoring, the bans, the site being down for several days, his poor statement and now the off topic and communities being nuked without any forewarning.
 
AALLx said:
.
Click to expand...

You should link the post, not the thread so that the context is more clear.

Example:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220356693&postcount=512

besada said:
I'm not sure what thought-policing involves, since I can't actually police your thoughts. I can make judgements about you, or I can turn you into the authorities if I believed you violated the law, but I'm not sure how one would go about policing your thoughts.

So you support a market that includes pedophila as acceptable content? I need you to be clear on this.
Click to expand...

You'll have to find the one where he threatens to report you to the authorities and your place of work. I didn't see it in a quick glance through the few pages surrounding this post.
 
Billy_Pilgrim said:
This. If the forum stays up there is a chance you could end up with a gaming focused forum that filters out the nazis and self polices against the thought police saints on the other side.

People might even come to the conclusion that people's experiences inform their world views. Shocking, but possible.

So far as the Evilore stuff goes, if things happened as reported then he did a bad thing and will likely face the consequences for it. I would hope that something sensible is done with the forum in mitigation of that being the case. If you take nothing else away from all this, let it be this: Do your best to protect your personal information on the internet, for fucks sake. We've all said things at times that would get us internet lynched if they were said aloud, posted in the wrong place or read by the wrong person. Nobody is a saint and beware of those who make saints of themselves.
Click to expand...

So much truth in this part right here.
 
Viruz said:
I don't know man, but if I/you had a worldwide business, I don't know how I would react to some twitter/facebook accusations of #metoo?. Maybe talk to my lawyers?

The forum, well we'll see after... no? the accusation are personal.
Click to expand...

Could have just been honest and say he fucked up and misread her signals.

But its clear you are delusional.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

What exactly is the state of Xbox Series now & going forward?
2 3
107
5K
REDRZA MWS replied
Tides of Annihilation - Announce Trailer | State of Play
Trailer  2 3 4 5
209
11K
skit_data replied
Playstation February 2025 State of Play Predictions
2 3 4 5
205
14K
TerribleAtThisGame replied
Onimusha Way of The Sword New Trailer | State of Play Feb 12. 2025
Trailer  2
68
3K
Sacred replied
Marathon rumored to be at tomorrows State of Play...
2 3
148
6K
Dr. Samuel Hayden replied
Top Bottom