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Who says you can't add custom ray tracing cores to RDNA chip? RDNA2 is just improvement of the RDNA arch. Why would you need RDNA2 specifically?
bitbydeath
Member
That's why Ray-Tracing is only built into the high-end cards, it needs the power.
Racer!
Member
Thats about 35mm2 less than what org PS4 launched with. Seems like we are in "gimping territory" on the compute side for another generation then.
bitbydeath
Member
It's a complete architecture overhaul, simply adding a few cores won't make it RT compliant.
Stuart360
Member
I dont think it really works like that. Its more 'put ray tracing in the high end cards that cost $500-1000'.
I think that rumour from a while ago about GTX 1080 power level will probably be close to what we get, and you cant expect much more for a $400-500 box.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Maybe its my TV (55inch 4k Samsung NU8000) but 1440p looks great with a little AA, and 4k looks great, but I need some serious AA for 1080p to look good. I sit about 5 feet away and the aliasing is horrible on a game like Borderlands 3 (1080p, no AA, performance mode) on a PS4 Pro. That game has the worst jaggies I have seen this gen.
Playing Control on PC at 1080P with 4x SSAA looks a little soft but is not bad. To be perfectly honest I can barely tell the difference between 1440p 2x SSAA and 4k no AA.
I hope PS5 game developers will start to give players options. I would buy a PS5 and play games at PS4 graphics level if it gave me 1080p/1440p and 60+ Fps on all games.
And PS4 is about 150mm² less then PS3.
And PS4Pro is around 30mm² less then PS4 original.
Its not gimping, its just that as manufacturing node go down, chips get more and more expensive per mm². In case of PS3s ~500mm² vs hypoteticsl 316mm², I am sure PS5s would be more expensive as process is getting more expensive itself.
bitbydeath
Member
All I'm saying is we have a choice of two cards. The 5800 or 5900, there spec is unknown but it is 100% one of those.
It's not an overhaul lol. There's reason why it's called RDNA2 and will be released less than a year after RDNA. PS4 Pro has Polaris packing Vega features. How is that possible!? They both are GCN based. You know, just likes RDNA2 will be RDNA based. And it was already said in previous wired article that PS5 will use "custom Navi" chip. And AMD in their presentations showed that PS5 will be based on RDNA arch.
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sonomamashine
Member
Good thing you missed some 17Tf - 14Tf madness, it was crazy.
You still don't get it don't you, or maybe a M variant of 5800 with RT, just don't expect anything crazy.
Stuart360
Member
We dont know for certain. It could be heavily modified, underclocked, use less cores, or even a different gpu and soc made for the consoles.
We should know by now that comparing console tech to PC tech can produce wildly different results. One thing is certain though, 2080, 2080 super, 2080ti power levels are a pipe dream, no matter how much 'secret sauce' these consoles have.
Stuart360
Member
I still remember TheLastWords 24-32tf, 32-64gb ram, 16 core Zen 3 cpu prediction for PS5, its in this thread somewhere lol.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Make sure your sharpness isn't too high either, keep it dead in the middle, or 0. I notice a lot of TV manufacturers like to have that turned all the way up out of the box.
It obviously will vary depending on the game and what solution they use for AA, but for the most part I don't run into too many issues.
I also try to keep the 4K gaming TVs at no more or less than 50 inches in size (for smaller pixel density), and sit about 5 to 6 feet away. Only problem is now, the newer ones that come out by Sony you can't get less than 55", so I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet when I upgrade next year or 2021. All depends on HDMI 2.1 and VRR launching.
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bitbydeath
Member
That's exactly what I'm saying, custom 5800 or custom 5900 there are literally no other options.
Racer!
Member
Well, PS4 was seriously gimped no question about that. PS3 was somehing like 493mm2 combined.
sonomamashine
Member
If you put some barbecue sauce it might ..., defenitely gonna notice the difference between PC & Consoles except Sony exclusives.
Give this guy a Health Care.
Yes but a custom 5800 (M) variant might be close to 5700 with RT on top of it so... they might aswell call it 5750xt i saw AMD patent xx50, xx50xt ++ stuff.
bitbydeath
Member
5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree it is more likely that as opposed to the 5900.
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Yea PS3 was 493mm², but PS2, which was cheaper, was even bigger - 520mm².
360 was 440mm², Xbox One was 363mm² and X was 360mm².
So we are safely moving into direction of smaller and smaller die sizes.
So this GPU will have 2x more TFLOPs and same BW as 5700?5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree.
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Stuart360
Member
250-300 watts just for the gpu, and the consoles are aiming for what, 200 watts total? for eveything. If they use that card, it will be so stripped back that those specs will mean nothing.5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree it is more likely that as opposed to the 5900.
bitbydeath
Member
Why would they aim for 200 watts total?
Even the Pro was a lot more than that and wasn't anywhere near as well ventilated as the PS5 Dev Kit.
sonomamashine
Member
You know you don't need rumors to figure those out (this chart is flawed btw), i've been counting them earlier on this thread you just do the math and take previous AMD CU counts as example and have an idea of TF count.5800 matches what the rumours have all been pointing towards too so I agree it is more likely that as opposed to the 5900.
bitbydeath
Member
vpance
Member
Seems likely to be 2.0. And probably the reason both MS and Sony have to wait until next year to launch.
Also everyone just forgot this I guess?
Negotiator
Banned
Uhm, what's next? Getting a 150mm2 PS6 APU, supposedly because 3nm GAAFET wafers will be crazy expensive in 2027?
There's a reason Sony delayed the PS5 until late 2020 (and no, it wasn't just the PS4 BC shenanigans).
Consoles always tend to use cost effective and mature nodes. Apple on the other hand tends to be more on the bleeding edge side.
bitbydeath
Member
You used the exact same CU count as previous models or did you account for the extra die space?
Stuart360
Member
Well the premium consoles are a bit different as they were built for raw power, but most new gen consoles run under 200watts, well under in a lot of cases. PS4 for example runs at 165watts.
The next gen consoles would need like 500watts to run a gpu like that, and the cpu and everyhting else. Thats not happening.
bitbydeath
Member
Seems likely to be 2.0. And probably the reason both MS and Sony have to wait until next year to launch.
Also everyone just forgot this I guess?
I recall seeing his name before, has he ever gotten anything right or only speculative at this point in time?
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Racer!
Member
Why PS2 was cheaper is a much longer story than that. But, well see.
bitbydeath
Member
You're right, I wouldn't expect anything over 400watts. But I guess that's where the shaving/customisation comes in.
Stuart360
Member
I mean why do you think they sell 800watt, 1000watts pcu's for PC, because you need that for high end hardware. You are just not going to get that power level in a console.
Whatever you say chief. You can try to discredit numbers I posted, but fact is. PS2 die size > PS3 die size > PS4 die size > PS4 Pro die size > ??
For MS its the same so perhaps they know more then us?
sonomamashine
Member
just CU count to have a Tf number wich was obvious, here is an example of Navi M variant cut.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This is just them speculating.
They did go on to say the closed box nature makes for much more performance tricks compared to the PC open platform of the same nature.
So pick your poison in what they said.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
No it fucking isn't. It's a 5700 with dedicated RT cores.
Lone Wolf
Member
where did they get the Ghz, RAM and GPU type from?This is CNET specs from last article:
bitbydeath
Member
Nope. 5700 is already ruled out as it doesn't support RT. It is not that.
sonomamashine
Member
it's 5750 or 5800M then
, now we good ?edit : what we are saying is 5700 equivalent not the product.
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bitbydeath
Member
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Are you slow? Any card can support raytracing if it is custom.
What is more likely, a custom 5700 with RT hardware tacked on or a GPU that doesn't exist yet that is double the cost if the 5700?
You do know that any card can brute force raytracing if the game supports it right?
Wait till he realizes what that M means. Gonna break his heart.We good
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bitbydeath
Member
The GPU that doesn't exist yet as you can't just custom the 5700. You'd be starting from scratch with a whole new card. Which I guess is another possibility. Completely custom based off nothing card.
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
Wait till he realizes what that M means. Gonna break his heart.We good
No shit? So you can't make a custom GPU based off of a 5700 architecture but you can from some future card?
Your logic is wacko.
bitbydeath
Member
The M stands for Mobile obviously.
I'm just pointing out the facts, you can't base it off the 5700 because the whole architecture changes with the introduction of RT.
Fake
Member
Dunno. CNET was Gamespot sister site.
Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD
Interesting. Seems graphical improvements while they will come are not the main focus.
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Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
M means massively underpowered as well.
You can't base it off the retail card, but you can use the basic architecture for a custom design....It's much more likely than getting some future card that "runs circles around s 2080ti".
I love consoles and play them more than my pc but a new console will never be more powerful than an enthusiast pc. Ergo ps5 isnt going to even touch a 2080 super, let alone a 2080ti.
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