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[Negotiator]

good job moving goalposts. no one you quoted or they quoted was talking about simulations. they were talking about how good those games looked compared to the launch games.

no idea why people get off on dismissing fantastic looking games. this gen has given us games that far exceed what we thought was possible. games continue to look better and better despite being on a pc arch with no secret sauce. rdr2 simply shouldnt be possible on current gen consoles, and it has some fantastic weather and cloud simulations. tlou2 and ghosts look even better. tlou2 is doing some crazy stuff like enemy a.i interactions with each other, has fully interactive foliage, and next gen animation systems. ghosts not just has interactive foliage, it is doubling down on weather systems making foliage and trees move realistically.

everyone knows the cpu is underpowered. and yet nearly every multiplayer first person shooter targets 60 fps. battlefield was 30 fps last gen, 60 fps this gen. doom, wolfenstein, titfanfall, fortnite, rainbow six seige, all target 60 fps despite the weak cpu. capcom is making amazing looking games like re7, re2make and dmc5 at 60 fps. the pro enabled games like gow, sotc, borderlands 3, rage 2 and infamous second son to run at 60 fps. last gen, only cod was 60 fps. its been a huge improvement despite the weaker cpu.

like i said, really bizarre reading constant pessismist and cynical posts from people like you. i get it, you want next gen consoles to be 8 tflops, but why diminish the current gen output which has blown away people year after year?

I've posted this before, but few people notice:


I wonder how many people here have played Uncharted 4 on Crushing?

I've played all of them and let me tell you the difficulty is insane compared to PS3 Uncharted Crushing...

Also this (cross-gen) game:

Shadow Of Mordor Nemesis System Handicapped For PS3, Xbox 360

As expected at this juncture, the new-gen versions of cross-generational games are starting to tout features that the older hardware just can't handle.

www.gameinformer.com

'Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis System Reduced On Current-Gen

The procedurally-generated enemies of 'Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor' are so next-gen, Xbox 360 and PS3 versions will see a scaled-down approach.

gamerant.com

So much for "no AI leap this gen".

Regarding "easy peasy x86 programming":

Taming the Jaguar: x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games

In this session the low-level optimizations in the AMD Jaguar CPU used in PS4 and XBOX ONE will be analyzed. Optimizing for the out of order Jaguar CPU is very different from previous console CPUs, and in this session a few key optimization...

www.gdcvault.com

Taming the Jaguar: x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games

In this session the low-level optimizations in the AMD Jaguar CPU used in PS4 and XBOX ONE will be analyzed. Optimizing for the out of order Jaguar CPU is very different from previous console CPUs, and in this session a few key optimization...

www.gdcvault.com

"Taming the Jaguar x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games" Notes

"Taming the Jaguar x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games" Notes - jaguar_optimization_notes.md

gist.github.com

Worth a read.

 

[R600]

From my standpoint, UC4 brought nothing that GTAV or UC3 didnt do gen before, except for shinnier graphics.

I mean we can say GPGPU brought more performance on table for AI and Physics, but that only points even further to the fact that Jag cores where simply underpowered to deliver the jump that was delivered from PS2 to PS3.

Gen 7 to Gen 8 we got shinnier graphics. Gen 8 to Gen 9 I think we will get much more complex worlds and AI, just duo to the jump in CPU performance.

 

[Romulus]

I've posted this before, but few people notice:


I wonder how many people here have played Uncharted 4 on Crushing?

I've played all of them and let me tell you the difficulty is insane compared to PS3 Uncharted Crushing...

Also this (cross-gen) game:

Shadow Of Mordor Nemesis System Handicapped For PS3, Xbox 360

As expected at this juncture, the new-gen versions of cross-generational games are starting to tout features that the older hardware just can't handle.

www.gameinformer.com

'Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis System Reduced On Current-Gen

The procedurally-generated enemies of 'Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor' are so next-gen, Xbox 360 and PS3 versions will see a scaled-down approach.

gamerant.com

So much for "no AI leap this gen".

Regarding "easy peasy x86 programming":

Taming the Jaguar: x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games

In this session the low-level optimizations in the AMD Jaguar CPU used in PS4 and XBOX ONE will be analyzed. Optimizing for the out of order Jaguar CPU is very different from previous console CPUs, and in this session a few key optimization...

www.gdcvault.com

Taming the Jaguar: x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games

In this session the low-level optimizations in the AMD Jaguar CPU used in PS4 and XBOX ONE will be analyzed. Optimizing for the out of order Jaguar CPU is very different from previous console CPUs, and in this session a few key optimization...

www.gdcvault.com

"Taming the Jaguar x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games" Notes

"Taming the Jaguar x86 Optimization at Insomniac Games" Notes - jaguar_optimization_notes.md

gist.github.com

Worth a read.

I did play UC4 on the hardest difficulty. I didn't find the AI much more intelligent. I also think those linked examples end results are pretty limited.

In my view, AI hasn't improved much since the early 2000s. Games like F.E.A.R. and Halo CE to an extent compared to modern games aren't anything to brag about, especially considering the timespan. We're talking nearly 20 years.

 

[CrustyBritches]

I've been casually revisiting some of these old leaks, especially anything that was deleted/removed quickly after being posted. One in particular I like is Benji-sales and his contrite attitude after posting the PS5 dev kit specs and soon after removing it(April 30, 2019):

This is the root of the 13TF rumor for the PS5 from what I can see.
---
Benji actually has a lot of interesting discussion on his Twitter.


It's pretty clear that he believes the 13TF was from an early dev kit, and now follows the same Apisak and Digital Foundry theory.
---
I've been going back and getting a timeline of relevant leaks:

Gonzalo(1.8GHz) emerges via Apisak(April 10, 2019):


New 2GHz ES version in the pipeline(June 10, 2019):


Fire Strike scores for PS4 and PS5(June 25, 2019):


"5700 XT + 3700X = next gen console simulator" tweet, now deleted(July 8, 2019):
---
Codemasters dev confirms PS5 dev kit design and that Codemasters has them in the studio(August 20, 2019):

---
Reddit OQA PCB leak(May 20, 2019):

Can anybody point me to where the idea of 13TF+ might have come from if not Benji?

 

[bitbydeath]

Around these parts, you're a fanboy for having positive MS news.

The whole 8TF thing started as a joke/downplay from MS employee Albert Penello. DF run with it and this is why it's still mentioned today.

Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS

Most games are gonna be cross-gen'd for like 3 to 3 & a half years Where do you get these numbers? PS360 were dropped like a rock after 1 year. At most they will keep getting COD and sports games for a couple of years.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Fake]

That Benji tweet as about a old devkit with Vega 13TF right? If I remember right those first devkits are using Vega due to the miss of Navi.

 

[CrustyBritches]

That Benji tweet as about a old devkit with Vega 13TF right? If I remember right those first devkits are using Vega due to the miss of Navi.

That's my assumption based on the Apisak tweets and Benji's own recent tweet:
"Fascinating video from Digital Foundry where they do a build as similar to the info we have on PS5 and Scarlett"

 

[Fake]

That's my assumption based on the Apisak tweets and Benji's own recent tweet:
"Fascinating video from Digital Foundry where they do a build as similar to the info we have on PS5 and Scarlett"

Thats a big assumption.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Thats a big assumption.

Explain why.

 

[Fake]

Explain why.

13 TF Navi?

 

[CrustyBritches]

13 TF Navi?

Where are you seeing this 13TF Navi?

 

[R600]

The whole 8TF thing started as a joke/downplay from MS employee Albert Penello. DF run with it and this is why it's still mentioned today.

Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS

Most games are gonna be cross-gen'd for like 3 to 3 & a half years Where do you get these numbers? PS360 were dropped like a rock after 1 year. At most they will keep getting COD and sports games for a couple of years.

www.neogaf.com

DF never ran with it. DF is running with Gonzalo leak and "9TF Navi @7nm node eats up more watts then entire PS4Pro, so we cannot really expect even bigger chip + RT and all other shit in console on same node".

Its just common sense they are running with, and you are running with conspiracy theories.

 

[Fake]

Where are you seeing this 13TF Navi?

Comparing Benji tweets he mention 13TF did him?

 

[DeepEnigma]

That Benji tweet as about a old devkit with Vega 13TF right? If I remember right those first devkits are using Vega due to the miss of Navi.

That's what we all thought, which would make it around 10tf Navi.

Which goes with the other supposed leak that it will be more than the 9.2tf.

 

[Fake]

That's what we all thought, which would make it around 10tf Navi.

Which goes with the other supposed leak that it will be more than the 9.2tf.

9~10TF Navi are nearly 12~13TF Vega I suppose so those first devkits are using Vega and maybe thats why the early next gen hype was about numbers, but with time the numbers was decrease.

 

[R600]

That's what we all thought, which would make it around 10tf Navi.

Which goes with the other supposed leak that it will be more than the 9.2tf.

For what is worth it, DF ran two benches. 1.8Ghz 36CUs and 40CUs at 2.0Ghz I anywhere between 8-10TF.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Fake

Where does he say "13TF Navi"? That's why I posted his new tweet where he states that the DF vid is "Fascinating" and "similar to the info we have on PS5".

 

[bitbydeath]

DF never ran with it. DF is running with Gonzalo leak and "9TF Navi @7nm node eats up more watts then entire PS4Pro, so we cannot really expect even bigger chip + RT and all other shit in console on same node".

Its just common sense they are running with, and you are running with conspiracy theories.

You're still basing this whole thing on the 5700 which won't be used in the final.

That is common sense.

 

[Fake]

Fake

Where does he say "13TF Navi"? That's why I posted his new tweet where he states that the DF vid is "Fascinating" and "similar to the info we have on PS5".

My mistake. Was 'nearly 13TF GPU' = VEGA TF?

 

[R600]

9~10TF Navi are nearly 12~13 Vega I suppose so those first devkits are using Vega and maybe thats why the early next gen hype was about numbers, but with time the numbers was decrease.

9TF Navi easily outperforms Vega64, while new benchmarks put 10TF cards above Radeon 7, which has gobs of BW more.

 

[Fake]

9TF Navi easily outperforms Vega64, while new benchmarks put 10TF cards above Radeon 7, which has gobs of BW more.

I used the 'VEGA' as the gpu probably used in the first devkits because NAVI was not avaliable due to AMD still not release in time for devkits spec. I was suppose to post 'GCN' vs 'RDNA'.

 

[Romulus]

Why are we discussing TF so much when DF has stressed that's not the metric that is important going forward?

 

[Fake]

Why are we discussing TF so much when DF has stressed that's not the metric that is important going forward?

Maybe for guess the GPU.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why are we discussing TF so much when DF has stressed that's not the metric that is important going forward?

Well if DF says so...

 

[Fake]

Its important to read the thread title as well.

 

[CrustyBritches]

My mistake. Was 'nearly 13TF GPU' = VEGA TF?

Vega 64 + Ryzen 5 2600 = 20K+ Fire Strike score. PS5 = 20K+ Fire Strike score.

Why are we discussing TF so much when DF has stressed that's not the metric that is important going forward?

To determine the source of the 13TF Navi rumors for the PS5 that lead to the downplaying of Apisak and DF's information. People did not believe Gonzalo was PS5 for this same reason. I want the source of their info.

For believers of St. Gonzalo of the Heavenly Flute, we don't need rumors or TF metrics because we have PS5's Fire Strike score.

 

[Fake]

Vega 64 + Ryzen 5 2600 = 20K+ Fire Strike score. PS5 = 20K+ Fire Strike score.

If Benji know that.

 

[Romulus]

 

[Negotiator]

There's this (April 2018):

PlayStation 5 Spec Updated and Project Epsilon Leak | Gaming Instincts

Recently the PlayStation 5 Specs leaks all over the internet, the PS5 rumors have been flying along like wildfire on the 'net, about a power-house console that uses the new AMD 'Zen' CPU, and will be focused on VR and 4K. We have more updates on the spec leaks here, have a look

www.gaminginstincts.com

It could be an elaborate hoax, or it could be true (56 CUs @ 2 GHz? more CUs with less clocks?).

What's strange is that it looks awfully similar to this:

https://www.maxconsole.com/maxconsole_files/PS4-5-NEO.pdf

Coincidence or hoax? Only Cerny knows.

If it's true, I'd like to see the bus width of that 32GB pool. 256-bit ain't gonna cut it for 14.2TF. 384-bit wouldn't work, because that would require 24GB. That's even more perplexing IMHO than the 14.2TF figure.

Sony must have set a target they want to reach long time ago, that's for sure. Last-minute changes might be possible, but nothing major.

For people who say it's 100% impossible from a TDP perspective, we have some interesting tidbits about the semi-custom CPU:





This is the power consumption of 7nm chiplet + 12nm I/O die:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_c33PfU8AIg8GA.png:large

PS5 will utilize a monolithic 7nm die. With EUV and an elaborate cooling solution (judging by the V design), who knows if they could pull it off...

In any case, RX 5700 and 1st gen 7nm are not indicative of 2020 products. Same for Zen 2 CPUs that we currently have in the market. 2020 consoles will be more efficient than 2019 PCs.

 

[sonomamashine]

Can anybody point me to where the idea of 13TF+ might have come from if not Benji?

Vega 64 is 12.66Tf and 9.2Tf Navi out perform Vega, an early Dev Kit that included Vega since Navi was still baking.

That's what we all thought, which would make it around 10tf Navi.

Which goes with the other supposed leak that it will be more than the 9.2tf.

Nope, more like 9.3Tf Navi

You're still basing this whole thing on the 5700 which won't be used in the final.

That is common sense.

For the 9879465498464684 time dude it's 5700 (xt) PERFORMANCE not the 5700, my GOD.

There's this (April 2018):

PlayStation 5 Spec Updated and Project Epsilon Leak | Gaming Instincts

Recently the PlayStation 5 Specs leaks all over the internet, the PS5 rumors have been flying along like wildfire on the 'net, about a power-house console that uses the new AMD 'Zen' CPU, and will be focused on VR and 4K. We have more updates on the spec leaks here, have a look

www.gaminginstincts.com

It could be an elaborate hoax, or it could be true (56 CUs @ 2 GHz? more CUs with less clocks?).

What's strange is that it looks awfully similar to this:

https://www.maxconsole.com/maxconsole_files/PS4-5-NEO.pdf

Coincidence or hoax? Only Cerny knows.

If it's true, I'd like to see the bus width of that 32GB pool. 256-bit ain't gonna cut it for 14.2TF. 384-bit wouldn't work, because that would require 24GB. That's even more perplexing IMHO than the 14.2TF figure.

Sony must have set a target they want to reach long time ago, that's for sure. Last-minute changes might be possible, but nothing major.

For people who say it's 100% impossible from a TDP perspective, we have some interesting tidbits about the semi-custom CPU:





This is the power consumption of 7nm chiplet + 12nm I/O die:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_c33PfU8AIg8GA.png:large

PS5 will utilize a monolithic 7nm die. With EUV and an elaborate cooling solution (judging by the V design), who knows if they could pull it off...

In any case, RX 5700 and 1st gen 7nm are not indicative of 2020 products. Same for Zen 2 CPUs that we currently have in the market. 2020 consoles will be more efficient than 2019 PCs.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Vega 64 is 12.66Tf and 9.2Tf Navi out perform Vega, an early Dev Kit that included Vega since Navi was still baking.

Nope, more like 9.3Tf Navi

For the 9879465498464684 time dude it's 5700 (xt) PERFORMANCE not the 5700, my GOD.

Which the supposed "insider" said it was about that number.

 

[sonomamashine]

Which the supposed "insider" said it was about that number.

What number ? 13TF next gen ?

 

[DeepEnigma]

What number ? 13TF next gen ?

Goodness. The 9.2/9.3 number. Kleeg or whatever said it was above that. But still keep expectations tempered.

So anywhere from 9.2-10 would be in the 13-14 Vega range of pre-Navi spec leaks.

 

[MadAnon]

4chan PowerPoint presentations and PDFs. The best kind of source.

 

[Romulus]

If we look at a game like Gears 5 xbox one x. Its resolution scales from 1540p-4k at 60fps with a mix of settings, mostly high if I'm not mistaken.

If built in ray tracing is a thing and we stay at the same 4k target, where will devs spend the additional 3-6TF of budget and additional RAM/bandwidth? Also, it seems to me that the massive gulf in CPU power will further alleviate the GPU to hit target framerates? Not to mention whatever SSD benefits are.

 

[R600]

There's this (April 2018):

PlayStation 5 Spec Updated and Project Epsilon Leak | Gaming Instincts

Recently the PlayStation 5 Specs leaks all over the internet, the PS5 rumors have been flying along like wildfire on the 'net, about a power-house console that uses the new AMD 'Zen' CPU, and will be focused on VR and 4K. We have more updates on the spec leaks here, have a look

www.gaminginstincts.com

It could be an elaborate hoax, or it could be true (56 CUs @ 2 GHz? more CUs with less clocks?).

What's strange is that it looks awfully similar to this:

https://www.maxconsole.com/maxconsole_files/PS4-5-NEO.pdf

Coincidence or hoax? Only Cerny knows.

If it's true, I'd like to see the bus width of that 32GB pool. 256-bit ain't gonna cut it for 14.2TF. 384-bit wouldn't work, because that would require 24GB. That's even more perplexing IMHO than the 14.2TF figure.

Sony must have set a target they want to reach long time ago, that's for sure. Last-minute changes might be possible, but nothing major.

For people who say it's 100% impossible from a TDP perspective, we have some interesting tidbits about the semi-custom CPU:





This is the power consumption of 7nm chiplet + 12nm I/O die:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_c33PfU8AIg8GA.png:large

PS5 will utilize a monolithic 7nm die. With EUV and an elaborate cooling solution (judging by the V design), who knows if they could pull it off...

In any case, RX 5700 and 1st gen 7nm are not indicative of 2020 products. Same for Zen 2 CPUs that we currently have in the market. 2020 consoles will be more efficient than 2019 PCs.

My issue with Epsilon leak, beside absolutely insane specs - 32GB of GDDR6 is almost 50W of power, is that it contains clear typos. Just look at first slide - gameplataforms.

 

[CrustyBritches]

If Benji know that.

He didn't at the time, that's my point. Now it seems he follows the Gonzalo leak.

N Negotiator
I vaguely remember the term "Epsilon" from B3D(?). Wasn't that codename from the UE4 update that included export options for "Epsilon". It was an existing console, maybe even Switch Lite...not kidding it was something corny like that.

 

[Imtjnotu]

This thread is getting spicy again

 

[Fake]

My guess is at the end of this year we get some info about Scarlet... or maybe at least about the version canceled.
.

 

[MadAnon]

My issue with Epsilon leak, beside absolutely insane specs - 32GB of GDDR6 is almost 50W of power, is that it contains clear typos. Just look at first slide - gameplataforms.

Because it's made up. Someone used similar template of previous leaked document about "Neo" to make it believable.

 

[R600]

My guess is at the end of this year we get some info about Scarlet... or maybe at least about the version canceled.
.

We should be getting good bit of info in next month or two, I just cant see no one spilling beans only months from reveal.

Because it's made up. Someone used similar template of previous leaked document about "Neo" to make it believable.

Well of course, but its before you even go into detail of why that leak makes 0 sense.

 

[CrustyBritches]

This thread is getting spicy again

Join us!

 

[sonomamashine]

So anywhere from 9.2-10 would be in the 13-14 Vega range of pre-Navi spec leaks.

Yes.

Goodness. The 9.2/9.3 number. Kleeg or whatever said it was above that. But still keep expectations tempered.

Listen it's not about lowballing, Rx5700 is 36CU, Rx5700 xt 40CU.
next AMD cards (5800) gonna have 52CU & 56CU (i assume) so :
52CU - 12.6Tf that gonna sell for 500$ - 450$
56CU - 13.6Tf for 500$ - 550$
so you expecting PS5 will have 13TF NAVI for a decent price 449$ to 500$ a console, i don't think so but if you do believe that i respect that and only time will tell.

 

[R600]

He didn't at the time, that's my point. Now it seems he follows the Gonzalo leak.

N Negotiator
I vaguely remember the term "Epsilon" from B3D(?). Wasn't that codename from the UE4 update that included export options for "Epsilon". It was an existing console, maybe even Switch Lite...not kidding it was something corny like that.

He was also quick to dismiss it, which I thought at time was perhaps duo to his source telling him to keep quite.

13TF GCN back in April was seen as absolute max we could get. Not many knew 9TF Navi would match it...

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes.

Listen it's not about lowballing, Rx5700 is 36CU, Rx5700 xt 40CU.
next AMD cards (5800) gonna have 52CU & 56CU (i assume) so :
52CU - 12.6Tf that gonna sell for 500$ - 450$
56CU - 13.6Tf for 500$ - 550$
so you expecting PS5 will have 13TF NAVI for a decent price 449$ to 500$ a console, i don't think so but if you do believe that i respect that and only time will tell.

Who are you even arguing with?

I'm only repeating information that was said, nothing more.

 

[bitbydeath]

For the 9879465498464684 time dude it's 5700 (xt) PERFORMANCE not the 5700, my GOD.

It's neither. Even if R600's rumour were true it's not the final hardware that's being reported only the current dev kit at that point in time. Hence why it's jumped from 8 -> 9 -> Prospero in the double digits and there's still more revisions expected to come.

 

[sonomamashine]

It's neither. Even if R600's rumour were true it's not the final hardware that's being reported only the current dev kit at that point in time. Hence why it's jumped from 8 -> 9 -> Prospero in the double digits and there's still more revisions expected to come.

from 8 ? where did you get 8 ?
Give us your Specs, what are you expecting.

 

[R600]

It's neither. Even if R600's rumour were true it's not the final hardware that's being reported only the current dev kit at that point in time. Hence why it's jumped from 8 -> 9 -> Prospero in the double digits and there's still more revisions expected to come.

Tbh from Apisak/Gonzalo/PCB/Flute leaks, its all been very consistant.

1st leak (January) specified Navi10 Lite clocked at 1.0Ghz.

2nd leak (April) specified Navi10 Lite 2nd revision and 1.8Ghz clocks

3rd leak (May) specified PCB specs, including 256bit bus and 18Gbps RAM chips, with SOC of around 316mm².

4th leak (July) Flute showed CPU clocks and performances, as well as memory chips which match 3rd Leak - PCB from May.

I want to bring 2 points to discussion.

1) There are no 18Gbps chips currently available. All Super and new AMD cards (5500) use 16Gbps. But May leak specified Samsung code for 18Gbps chips and these will actually be available in mass production by early next year. What this means is Sony probably went with "leaner" SOC size and higher clocked memory chips to get back lost BW, while MS seemed to have gone with wider bus but slower memory, thus bigger SOC but similar effective BW.

2) Navi10 Lite does not mean cut of Navi10 from PC (which is 5700XT). In AMDs case, 10 is codename for first GPU in gen. In last few years it was always top spec card, but this time its 5700. What might have been the case when Gonzalo leaked back in January is that Navi10 was to be full - 56/64CU Navi and therefore cut of version was called Lite. After that, it was decided that big card is a no go and Radeon 7 will be their big GPU, while Navi10 will be 5700.

In any case, most important thing about leaks is consistancy and this is why, IMO, Gonzalo/Flute/PCB make so much sense. Not only are they coming straight from horses mouth (AMD data miners), they also connect to one another in very specific way (Gonzalo clocks, code name nomenclature similar to other Sony AMD chips, bus width, chips used etc)

 

[bitbydeath]

from 8 ? where did you get 8 ?
Give us your Specs, what are you expecting.

The same Twitter source as the rest. R600 used to quote it all the time.

 

[bitbydeath]

Tbh from Apisak/Gonzalo/PCB/Flute leaks, its all been very consistant.

1st leak (January) specified Navi10 Lite clocked at 1.0Ghz.

2nd leak (April) specified Navi10 Lite 2nd revision and 1.8Ghz clocks

3rd leak (May) specified PCB specs, including 256bit bus and 18Gbps RAM chips, with SOC of around 316mm².

4th leak (July) Flute showed CPU clocks and performances, as well as memory chips which match 3rd Leak - PCB from May.

I want to bring 2 points to discussion.

1) There are no 18Gbps chips currently available. All Super and new AMD cards (5500) use 16Gbps. But May leak specified Samsung code for 18Gbps chips and these will actually be available in mass production by early next year. What this means is Sony probably went with "leaner" SOC size and higher clocked memory chips to get back lost BW, while MS seemed to have gone with wider bus but slower memory, thus bigger SOC but similar effective BW.

2) Navi10 Lite does not mean cut of Navi10 from PC (which is 5700XT). In AMDs case, 10 is codename for first GPU in gen. In last few years it was always top spec card, but this time its 5700. What might have been the case when Gonzalo leaked back in January is that Navi10 was to be full - 56/64CU Navi and therefore cut of version was called Lite. After that, it was decided that big card is a no go and Radeon 7 will be their big GPU, while Navi10 will be 5700.

In any case, most important thing about leaks is consistancy and this is why, IMO, Gonzalo/Flute/PCB make so much sense. Not only are they coming straight from horses mouth (AMD data miners), they also connect to one another in very specific way (Gonzalo clocks, code name nomenclature similar to other Sony AMD chips, bus width, chips used etc)

And what about Prospero now? The final devkits won't be produced until next year. There's still more changes to come.