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[StreetsofBeige]

The DF conspiracy theories...

The PS360 era really did a number on some people.

LOL.

The funny thing is nobody would even notice resolution or frame rate differences unless DF told them.

Most of the games have such small differences (the biggest probably being Bethesda's shitty save system on PS3 Skyrim and Fallout), who knew people would go ape shit?

I have a toaster oven on my counter that is old. But I still use it to make food instead of putting it in the oven which is overkill.

I don't give shit if there's another toaster than can heat up food better. It gets the job done. The quality difference in heating is likely so small vs. any other toaster, is it really worth griping? Kind of like griping about 720p vs 694p, or 30 fps vs 28.5 fps?

 

[SlimySnake]

LOL.

The funny thing is nobody would even notice resolution or frame rate differences unless DF told them.

Most of the games have such small differences (the biggest probably being Bethesda's shitty save system on PS3 Skyrim and Fallout), who knew people would go ape shit?

I have a toaster oven on my counter that is old. But I still use it to make food instead of putting it in the oven which is overkill.

I don't give shit if there's another toaster than can heat up food better. It gets the job done. The quality difference in heating is likely so small vs. any other toaster, is it really worth griping? Kind of like griping about 720p vs 694p, or 30 fps vs 28.5 fps?

i think thats what bugs people so much about df. when it was 720p vs 694, it was a huge deal. when it was 30 fps vs 28 fps it was a huge deal. but 900p - 1080p with dynamic resolution going all the way down to 720p? pixels dont matter anymore. massive consistent stutters during the latest zelda game? thats quite alright.

ive always looked at their framerate tests as flawed. they pick the worst performing area in the game, most of the time its the only troubling area in the game, and then use that to make assumptions about the entire game. then they take the worst drop and use that instead of giving us the mean or the average fps across an entire level/chapter. you are right, no one would notice a drop to 28 fps, but thats what they built their name off of and now they are paying the price.

 

[Mass Shift]

The DF conspiracy theories...

The PS360 era really did a number on some people.

I know, but really.

We're talking about grievances against competing rumors. It's all hot air at this point. Just pick your favorite and then wait for it to either crumble or be validated.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

i think thats what bugs people so much about df. when it was 720p vs 694, it was a huge deal. when it was 30 fps vs 28 fps it was a huge deal. but 900p - 1080p with dynamic resolution going all the way down to 720p? pixels dont matter anymore. massive consistent stutters during the latest zelda game? thats quite alright.

ive always looked at their framerate tests as flawed. they pick the worst performing area in the game, most of the time its the only troubling area in the game, and then use that to make assumptions about the entire game. then they take the worst drop and use that instead of giving us the mean or the average fps across an entire level/chapter. you are right, no one would notice a drop to 28 fps, but thats what they built their name off of and now they are paying the price.

Yup.

Frame rate analysis is by far the most exaggerated. As you said, some small area of the game may have a slight stutter for maybe 4 seconds and somehow that is like a giant cloud over the rest of the game which run fine.

I don't know what DF's web traffic is like, but this kind of stuff was big in the 360/PS3 era. I don't think people care so much now regardless of which system is better or worse.

I think most people have moved on and realize Linneman and Leadbetter freaking out a section of the game drops from 30 fps to 27 fps for a miniscule amount of time is reaching hard for clicks.

As some people have said somewhere, DF's Retro series is solid. If they focused more on that than tracking a game has a 12 line black border at the top making a game 1068p, they'd get more respect.

 

[CrustyBritches]

I thought this recent DF video was fantastic. So much useful info. It was cool that IO contacted them with console equivalent settings for PC.

 

[R600]

Whats funny is people saying MS is putting bread on their table. I mean, WTF? They had X scoop for obvious reasons, MS got spanked with PS4 and they wanted hardcored to know X > Pro.

They had PS4Pro scoop as well, just not as big. So, besides X tech analaysis with MS, what are MS providing to them really? Not a fucking thing.

Get a hold of youreself. Sony fanboys really are a crazy bunch, just looking at that Era thread...detective work is on point. People are fishing for posts since 00's to find something to discredit someone. Jesus christ...(and I only own Pro this gen).

 

[Racer!]

Whats funny is people saying MS is putting bread on their table. I mean, WTF? They had X scoop for obvious reasons, MS got spanked with PS4 and they wanted hardcored to know X > Pro.

They had PS4Pro scoop as well, just not as big. So, besides X tech analaysis with MS, what are MS providing to them really? Not a fucking thing.

Get a hold of youreself. Sony fanboys really are a crazy bunch, just looking at that Era thread...detective work is on point. People are fishing for posts since 00's to find something to discredit someone. Jesus christ...(and I only own Pro this gen).

It pisses people off when you treat rumors as facts.

 

[nikolino840]

What could happen if Scarlett push more on frames then ps5?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Quoting myself from earlier in this thread. You can see how Richard is actually a massive MS shill, and that was even before MS money.



Fucking clown Lol.

Quite evident when you read his interview with the MS Xbox One tech guys and when they invited them in for the Xbox One X deep dive. Former case “oh 40% more raw performance advantage does not matter because... hw customisations” and in the latter “HW customisations do not matter, when you have a >=40% raw performance advantage”... even Jaguar instead of being the same just clocked a bit higher than on the PS4 Pro it was a magically customised x86 core in the comparison specs sheet.

Richard routinely takes rumours from one side and finds the least positive angle possible and from the other side the most optimistic way to look at things... he is not the impartial one there.

 

[Panajev2001a]

What could happen if Scarlett push more on frames then ps5?

Scarlett would push more on frames.

 

[demigod]

What could happen if Scarlett push more on frames then ps5?

DF's narrative will change again from resolution back to frames.

 

[TLZ]

What could happen if Scarlett push more on frames then ps5?

 

[R600]

I think you guys are seriously reading into things that are just not there. Pulling some half assed quotes from 10 years ago, saying "Bu bu he didnt say PS4 destroyed Xbone in that game back in 2013 like he did in 2008 with PS360".

It just sounds so fucking pety and insane when you realize the entire reaction comes from their expectation of next gen consoles being ~5700/XT ballpark.

Not sure if this is general cult that mostly Sony fans exibit, but seems to be similar to Apples.

 

[demigod]

I think you guys are seriously reading into things that are just not there. Pulling some half assed quotes from 10 years ago, saying "Bu bu he didnt say PS4 destroyed Xbone in that game back in 2013 like he did in 2008 with PS360".

It just sounds so fucking pety and insane when you realize the entire reaction comes from their expectation of next gen consoles being ~5700/XT ballpark.

Not sure if this is general cult that mostly Sony fans exibit, but seems to be similar to Apples.

Calm down Richard.

 

[MadAnon]

I am now a MS shill because supposedly l'm lowballing ps5. It's not like our estimates come from Gonzalo benchmarks while there's absolutely nothing to gauge XBox potential performance.

How surprising that fanboys come and ruin the thread.

 

[R600]

I am now a MS shill because supposedly l'm lowballing ps5. It's not like our estimates come from Gonzalo benchmarks while there's absolutely nothing to gauge XBox potential performance.

How surprising that fanboys come and ruin the thread.

DF "According to our sources, developers are very happy with PS5"

Gaf "...."

DF "From everything we know, expectations for next gen are round about Navi10 GPU with Zen2 and RT hardware. Lets see how big this increase is over PS4Pro and X"

Gaf "Looool again lowballing Sony hahahah. MS is paying so no wonder, but no, PS5 will be much better then that as per Klee? from GAF. DF just pissed of Wired got exclusive on PS5."

 

[Fake]

I thought this recent DF video was fantastic. So much useful info. It was cool that IO contacted them with console equivalent settings for PC.

Asus was really helpful this time.

 

[chinoXL]

Asus was really helpful this time.

agreed that was a good vid, they put in some good work on that analysis...definitely looking forward to next gen with some good cpu's..might have to finally replace my 6700k

 

[Negotiator]

Quite evident when you read his interview with the MS Xbox One tech guys and when they invited them in for the Xbox One X deep dive. Former case “oh 40% more raw performance advantage does not matter because... hw customisations” and in the latter “HW customisations do not matter, when you have a >=40% raw performance advantage”... even Jaguar instead of being the same just clocked a bit higher than on the PS4 Pro it was a magically customised x86 core in the comparison specs sheet.

Richard routinely takes rumours from one side and finds the least positive angle possible and from the other side the most optimistic way to look at things... he is not the impartial one there.

This, so much this. Some XBOX fans seriously think the XB1X Jaguar variant got some huge IPC bump or something, even though benchmarks suggest otherwise (it's the clock speed bump that helps, nothing else).

We know Jaguar's uarch in depth from serious tech sites (like Anandtech/Ars Technica, DF is child's play in comparison), no need to sugarcoat it with PR BS like "hardware-baked DX12 support".

I mean, what the hell?! Thankfully they amended that part later on.

 

[sonomamashine]

I thought this recent DF video was fantastic. So much useful info. It was cool that IO contacted them with console equivalent settings for PC.

I'm a Sony guy and i don't understand these FanBoys (known for a complete lack of objectivity).
People love to dream big but got mad because DF didn't went crazy with the assumptions, it's just math people.

 

[Fake]

The article is up:

We built a 'next-gen' Zen 2/Navi-based PC - how much faster is it than current-gen consoles?

Development kits are out, game makers are briefed. Sony's PlayStation 5 and Xbox Project Scarlett projects are under wa…

www.eurogamer.net

Should you guys want me to make a thread about? I can put pieces of info there if wish.

 

[MarkMe2525]

All these DF videos will be rendered somewhat irrelevant when they find out it has a co-processor.

Ding ding ding

 

[Insane Metal]

The article is up:

We built a 'next-gen' Zen 2/Navi-based PC - how much faster is it than current-gen consoles?

Development kits are out, game makers are briefed. Sony's PlayStation 5 and Xbox Project Scarlett projects are under wa…

www.eurogamer.net

Should you guys want me to make a thread about? I can put pieces of info there if wish.

Holy shit those Jaguar CPUs are TRASH

 

[Fake]

Holy shit those Jaguar CPUs are TRASH

Indeed. Even Rich found hard to make a PC counterpart for Jaguar. The best possibility is Athlon 5370 and is even better than Jaguar, but unfortunately it is the best possibility.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Next generation is looking ace. I cant wait to see Naughty Dog's new IP running on the PS5

 

[MarkMe2525]

Microsoft is working on AI chips across its different devices, top exec says

Panos Panay, corporate vice president of devices at Microsoft, said the company could license these chips to partners.

www.cnbc.com

Has anyone put any thought into the possibility of one of these chips being the next Xbox? What advantages could an ai chip bring to a gaming console? Also, this would help differentiate their box since all rumors suggest they are using a similar apu.

 

[FranXico]

Microsoft is working on AI chips across its different devices, top exec says

Panos Panay, corporate vice president of devices at Microsoft, said the company could license these chips to partners.

www.cnbc.com

Has anyone put any thought into the possibility of one of these chips being the next Xbox? What advantages could an ai chip bring to a gaming console? Also, this would help differentiate their box since all rumors suggest they are using a similar apu.

MS has a patent on AI based graphical post-processing IIRC. Could well be.

 

[sonomamashine]

Holy shit those Jaguar CPUs are TRASH

N Negotiator

 

[Ovech-King]

So DF used 2 of the easiest games to output at 4k 60fps to show that the Radeon 5700xt is twice a strong than the Xbox One X ... Wow. If that's why they think 9tf is enough to meet this demand, I hope that Cerny is testing instead something like Metro exodus to push the envelope of the final product above 10tf . 8gb gddr6 at 448gb/s is only gonna cut it half the time for 60 fps ( and the consoles releases in one year )

 

[Fake]

So DF used 2 of the easiest games to output at 4k 60fps to show that the Radeon 5700xt is twice a strong than the Xbox One X ... Wow. If that's why they think 9tf is enough to meet this demand, I hope that Cerny is testing instead something like Metro exodus to push the envelope of the final product above 10tf . 8gb gddr6 at 448gb/s is only gonna cut it half the time for 60 fps ( and the consoles releases in one year )

Unless you have any recent console game with have the option to disable dynamic resoluiton like Wolf did I can't think any better choise.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Indeed. Even Rich found hard to make a PC counterpart for Jaguar. The best possibility is Athlon 5370 and is even better than Jaguar, but unfortunately it is the best possibility.

And yet look at our output towards the end, God of War 4, Horizion, Tsushima. My PC hasn't impressed me as much as moments in those. Would I prefer as much power as physically and economically possible in the PS5, yeah, but I'm not all too worried about it either way, the output with the full SSD architecture, massive CPU uplift, and RDNA ~2.0 with anything approaching double digit Teraflops is going to be insane.

 

[Fake]

And yet look at our output towards the end, God of War 4, Horizion, Tsushima. My PC hasn't impressed me as much as moments in those. Would I prefer as much power as physically and economically possible in the PS5, yeah, but I'm not all too worried about it either way, the output with the full SSD architecture, massive CPU uplift, and RDNA ~2.0 with anything approaching double digit Teraflops is going to be insane.

Yeah. People can downplay whatever they want, but what PS4 and Xbox archieve with that 'stop in time' box configuration is impressive. We maybe only get crossplay and not really true potential in early PS5/Scarlet, but mid and late game will always be an impressive game to release.

 

[Negotiator]

And yet look at our output towards the end, God of War 4, Horizion, Tsushima. My PC hasn't impressed me as much as moments in those. Would I prefer as much power as physically and economically possible in the PS5, yeah, but I'm not all too worried about it either way, the output with the full SSD architecture, massive CPU uplift, and RDNA ~2.0 with anything approaching double digit Teraflops is going to be insane.

And yet, we had people on this very forum in 2013-2014 telling us that Killzone Shadowfall and Ryse Son of Rome won't be surpassed, because it's easy peasy x86 already maxed out.

I wonder where are they now?

 

[R600]

So DF used 2 of the easiest games to output at 4k 60fps to show that the Radeon 5700xt is twice a strong than the Xbox One X ... Wow. If that's why they think 9tf is enough to meet this demand, I hope that Cerny is testing instead something like Metro exodus to push the envelope of the final product above 10tf . 8gb gddr6 at 448gb/s is only gonna cut it half the time for 60 fps ( and the consoles releases in one year )

Why would you assume console titles will be 60fps at 4K by default? Hasnt happened...ever actually. Even when consoles where money pits with better specs then PC at the times you had ton of sub HD sub 30fps games.

On the other hand, 9TF Navi is currently only behind Radeon VII as fastest AMD chip and without RT uses anywhere from 150W to 230W at full power (depending on wattage obviously). It costs 400$ retail as well

To compare it to this gen when top of the line PC GPUs had 3.8TF, consoles where capped at 1.3 and 1.8TF.

So I dont see a precedent to assume we HAVE to get 11-12TF because 4K60fps magic will not work with it. Consoles designers start from clean sheet of paper with thermal, manufacturing and price points in mind, and not some mythical 4K60fps all the time. That is marketing and developer part to deliver.

 

[R600]

And yet, we had people on this very forum in 2013-2014 telling us that Killzone Shadowfall and Ryse Son of Rome won't be surpassed, because it's easy peasy x86 already maxed out.

I wonder where are they now?

There is nothing in Horizon or GOW that looks particularly impressive or better from simulation/CPU POV. Sure we got nice looking pixels, but simulation part has been very stagnant this gen compared to last one, so that point stands.

In addition to that, 60fps games on PS4pro and X are rare not because of GPU part, but CPU, which is just underpowered by every metric (and was back in 2013).

 

[Fake]

In addition to that, 60fps games on PS4pro and X are rare not because of GPU part, but CPU, which is just underpowered by every metric (and was back in 2013).

Get all the consoles before X and PRO(Base PS4, Xbox One, WiiU, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Game Cube, PS2, Xbox)... do you think all of them share similars problems as well?

 

[joe_zazen]

Yeah. People can downplay whatever they want, but what PS4 and Xbox archieve with that 'stop in time' box configuration is impressive. We maybe only get crossplay and not really true potential in early PS5/Scarlet, but mid and late game will always be an impressive game to release.

no doubt. I also wonder how much increased computing power actually increases our enjoyment of the hobby. Aside from vr, which hasn't gotten into diminishing returns yet, what does massive increases in tf Bring to the table? Do better shadows and RT actually bring more enjoyment beyond ‘wow, that looks good’? Ssd nvme is going to be good, because fuck load times, but the rest? Idk, maybe i am just getting old. It is like when i look at cars now, power is one of the last things i care about.

the power of the eii gave me my two all time favourite gaming experiences: the Mario Galaxay games.

 

[sonomamashine]

And yet look at our output towards the end, God of War 4, Horizion, Tsushima. My PC hasn't impressed me as much as moments in those.

They did well but doesn't change the argument that Jaguar is weak, PC Dev's are making sure their games reach much people as possible so definitely not gonna be impressed either way add to that console ports, so yeah nothing to see here.

Would I prefer as much power as physically and economically possible in the PS5, yeah, but I'm not all too worried about it either way, the output with the full SSD architecture, massive CPU uplift, and RDNA ~2.0 with anything approaching double digit Teraflops is going to be insane.

No doubt about that.

 

[Negotiator]

no doubt. I also wonder how much increased computing power actually increases our enjoyment of the hobby. Aside from vr, which hasn't gotten into diminishing returns yet, what does massive increases in tf Bring to the table? Do better shadows and RT actually bring more enjoyment beyond ‘wow, that looks good’? Ssd nvme is going to be good, because fuck load times, but the rest? Idk, maybe i am just getting old. It is like when i look at cars now, power is one of the last things i care about.

the power of the eii gave me my two all time favourite gaming experiences: the Mario Galaxay games.

Good point.

Teraflops though aren't just for 3D graphics (I'll never get this fixation), they're also for AI (pathfinding), physics, machine learning etc. All sorts of SIMD tasks.

People are looking for AI co-processors, even though we already know the Navi GPGPU will support INT4/INT8 acceleration for deep learning/neural networks (aka next-gen AI). There's your "AI chip".

Imagine having human-like, GPU-assisted AI (the sort of "human AI" you experience in challenging PvP games). It would be a breakthrough, but would people really dig it? Would they really embrace that challenge or would they ragequit? Even current-gen consoles can offer better AI.

TBH, if Sony remasters UC2/3 MP, I won't care that much about TF. I had a lot of fun on the PS3 (~400GF) and if they can deliver the same gameplay experience remastered at 4k60 and Azure dedicated servers, that would be ace for me, even if the PS5 has a lowballed 7TF Navi GPU (still stronger than XB1X 6TF Polaris, right?).

And yeah, Mario Galaxy is tons of fun too, despite running at 480p60. Wii was barely double-digit Gigaflops.

The problem with power is always the 3rd parties (minus a few exceptions). They always need more power to brute force things. 1st parties don't care that much, you won't see them whining about hardware deficiencies, especially if they have Demoscene roots.

 

[Hobbygaming]

The leap next gen will come from many places

More games with motion-matching
More complex AI
More prominent raytracing
Better physics
Better populated open worlds
Less load times/less slowing the player down to render the next area

 

[TeamGhobad]

cyberpunk 2077 is gonna look sick on nexgen systems =)

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Get all the consoles before X and PRO(Base PS4, Xbox One, WiiU, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Game Cube, PS2, Xbox)... do you think all of them share similars problems as well?

60FPS was rare on 6th gen? I don't remember it that way. Hell you had to go out of your way to find games that weren't 60FPS games on PS2/GC/Xbox/Dreamcast. Same with SNES and MD. Don't know why those gens were exceptions tho, did it come down to dev priorities or was it specific parts of design in those systems favoring framerates over big splashy effects or what?

'Cuz we need to return to that, tbh.

 

[sonomamashine]

cyberpunk 2077 is gonna look sick on nexgen systems =)

The game doesnt look that impressive in the first place.

 

[TeamGhobad]

The game doesnt look that impressive in the first place.

i think it does, but on nexgen the streets will look busier and that makes the world more immersive. also 4k.

 

[Fake]

60FPS was rare on 6th gen? I don't remember it that way. Hell you had to go out of your way to find games that weren't 60FPS games on PS2/GC/Xbox/Dreamcast. Same with SNES and MD. Don't know why those gens were exceptions tho, did it come down to dev priorities or was it specific parts of design in those systems favoring framerates over big splashy effects or what?

'Cuz we need to return to that, tbh.

Are you saying locked 60 fps or unlock fps? Think about that. Besides, huge different in library size. Current gen have a decent quantity of games compared with previous gens.

And again, SNES and MD are like apple vs oranges for bring them to the table dude.

 

[llien]

RDNA is rivalling NVIDIA TFs, which previously GCN couldn't.

Please stop, there is nothing to "rival", gaming perf/tflop is a totally nonsensical metric, influenced mostly by GPU manufacturer's plans to use the same arch for compute stuff (or not)

 

[SlimySnake]

There is nothing in Horizon or GOW that looks particularly impressive or better from simulation/CPU POV. Sure we got nice looking pixels, but simulation part has been very stagnant this gen compared to last one, so that point stands.

In addition to that, 60fps games on PS4pro and X are rare not because of GPU part, but CPU, which is just underpowered by every metric (and was back in 2013).

good job moving goalposts. no one you quoted or they quoted was talking about simulations. they were talking about how good those games looked compared to the launch games.

no idea why people get off on dismissing fantastic looking games. this gen has given us games that far exceed what we thought was possible. games continue to look better and better despite being on a pc arch with no secret sauce. rdr2 simply shouldnt be possible on current gen consoles, and it has some fantastic weather and cloud simulations. tlou2 and ghosts look even better. tlou2 is doing some crazy stuff like enemy a.i interactions with each other, has fully interactive foliage, and next gen animation systems. ghosts not just has interactive foliage, it is doubling down on weather systems making foliage and trees move realistically.

everyone knows the cpu is underpowered. and yet nearly every multiplayer first person shooter targets 60 fps. battlefield was 30 fps last gen, 60 fps this gen. doom, wolfenstein, titfanfall, fortnite, rainbow six seige, all target 60 fps despite the weak cpu. capcom is making amazing looking games like re7, re2make and dmc5 at 60 fps. the pro enabled games like gow, sotc, borderlands 3, rage 2 and infamous second son to run at 60 fps. last gen, only cod was 60 fps. its been a huge improvement despite the weaker cpu.

like i said, really bizarre reading constant pessismist and cynical posts from people like you. i get it, you want next gen consoles to be 8 tflops, but why diminish the current gen output which has blown away people year after year?

 

[R600]

good job moving goalposts. no one you quoted or they quoted was talking about simulations. they were talking about how good those games looked compared to the launch games.

no idea why people get off on dismissing fantastic looking games. this gen has given us games that far exceed what we thought was possible. games continue to look better and better despite being on a pc arch with no secret sauce. rdr2 simply shouldnt be possible on current gen consoles, and it has some fantastic weather and cloud simulations. tlou2 and ghosts look even better. tlou2 is doing some crazy stuff like enemy a.i interactions with each other, has fully interactive foliage, and next gen animation systems. ghosts not just has interactive foliage, it is doubling down on weather systems making foliage and trees move realistically.

everyone knows the cpu is underpowered. and yet nearly every multiplayer first person shooter targets 60 fps. battlefield was 30 fps last gen, 60 fps this gen. doom, wolfenstein, titfanfall, fortnite, rainbow six seige, all target 60 fps despite the weak cpu. capcom is making amazing looking games like re7, re2make and dmc5 at 60 fps. the pro enabled games like gow, sotc, borderlands 3, rage 2 and infamous second son to run at 60 fps. last gen, only cod was 60 fps. its been a huge improvement despite the weaker cpu.

like i said, really bizarre reading constant pessismist and cynical posts from people like you. i get it, you want next gen consoles to be 8 tflops, but why diminish the current gen output which has blown away people year after year?

Not sure what to say but read better.

And yet, we had people on this very forum in 2013-2014 telling us that Killzone Shadowfall and Ryse Son of Rome won't be surpassed, because it's easy peasy x86 already maxed out.

I wonder where are they now?

 

[Gamernyc78]

Whats funny is people saying MS is putting bread on their table. I mean, WTF? They had X scoop for obvious reasons, MS got spanked with PS4 and they wanted hardcored to know X > Pro.

They had PS4Pro scoop as well, just not as big. So, besides X tech analaysis with MS, what are MS providing to them really? Not a fucking thing.

Get a hold of youreself. Sony fanboys really are a crazy bunch, just looking at that Era thread...detective work is on point. People are fishing for posts since 00's to find something to discredit someone. Jesus christ...(and I only own Pro this gen).

If you really think that money doesn't change narratives from time to time in any industry idk what world you live in. Underhanded shit and influencing via deals and money is known in every industry and has definitely happened in gaming. You can tell how fast talking points change depending on whose paying who at the time lol thts why I'm glad it's not just DF. I also appreciated when lens of truth was around.

Calm down Richard.

Seriously lol the fanboyism is so transparent and I love when ppl end with "I own only an Xbox BTW or o only own a ps4" so what's tht suppose to do strengthen your argument? I own all three consoles and lean towards Sony bcus I just feel their exclusives are better and thy just don't talk hot air.

 

[Fake]

Will never be enough. My only advice is for them stay on pc side.