if Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is actually what we can expect for next gen consoles does that mean rtx2080 will be outdade by 2020

CameFromNearFuture said:
While custing 3x and its a single component ?

Lets get real here: You damn well know there are quite a Lot of Pc fanboys who want consoles to be way less powerful because of their typical insecurity and low level self steem

In every generation theres always a Pc crowd soeculating an average under powered gpu on consoles and they are ALL frustrated that this seems to be nowhere near the case this gen particularly.
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Wait what? PC fanboys are insecure and have low self steem? Boy do you love to generalize, or possibly project. Maybe look in the mirror and worry about your own self steem? I mean you seem to get really riled up championing a multi-billion dollar company's product. So much so you have to attack a whole gaming population to defend its honor. In fact I'd say you are pretty emotionally invested in PS5! You shouldn't tie your well being and self steem to products. Its not healthy.

The PC crowd is Soeculating an average under powered GPU because that's what you got last gen and prices aren't any cheaper for the coming gen. Sony won't be selling at a loss so you will get a $500 machine that would be the equivalent of a $800-$1000 PC. That is actually a great deal, but nothing to beat your chest about.

What custs 3x a single component? A 2080ti custs ~$1,050. That isn't 3x the $500 next gen consoles cust...

Personally I don't belong to the PC crowd, I am a PS4 gamer primarily (play with wife and friends a lot), though I do have a gaming PC.

I am just more of a realist and only Soeculate about things that seem realistic to me. I find it hilarious how people hype themselves up unrealistically though.

Why are my Soeculations bad because I try to be more realistic?
 
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I guess the reason for "in-engine" for Hellblade is because they don't have final silicon yet, so the video is a baseline of what they expect to deliver.
i.e. it could be rendered on a rx5700 (or what's currently inside the devkit) with lower fps, but it's at least rendered with the game-engine.
 
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Nvidia in particular has been overcharging us out the ass for ages. The real cost of high end cards is probably 25-35% of retail price. And I assume there are hefty profit margins on high end CPUs too. In terms of upfront cost next gen consoles will be a way better deal than PC.
 
Ascend said:
Nope. And they're not going to be released anytime soon. It would give the competition too much knowledge about what the hardware is. All we know is that it's Zen 2 and RDNA 2, with SSD.
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The final specs are already carved in stone... How else could game devs make games for the systems? And hence, both MS and Sony already know eachother's specs.
 
Croatoan said:
Wait what? PC fanboys are insecure and have low self steem? Boy do you love to generalize, or possibly project. Maybe look in the mirror and worry about your own self steem? I mean you seem to get really riled up championing a multi-billion dollar company's product. So much so you have to attack a whole gaming population to defend its honor. In fact I'd say you are pretty emotionally invested in PS5! You shouldn't tie your well being and self steem to products. Its not healthy.

The PC crowd is Soeculating an average under powered GPU because that's what you got last gen and prices aren't any cheaper for the coming gen. Sony won't be selling at a loss so you will get a $500 machine that would be the equivalent of a $800-$1000 PC. That is actually a great deal, but nothing to beat your chest about.

What custs 3x a single component? A 2080ti custs ~$1,050. That isn't 3x the $500 next gen consoles cust...

Personally I don't belong to the PC crowd, I am a PS4 gamer primarily (play with wife and friends a lot), though I do have a gaming PC.

I am just more of a realist and only Soeculate about things that seem realistic to me. I find it hilarious how people hype themselves up unrealistically though.

Why are my Soeculations bad because I try to be more realistic?
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I can Tell You that many people dont Just speculate, they basically have huge Desires for the consoles to have avearage at best gpu because of an ego problem. It Hurts their ego, their proud and money invested on that huge, 1000 pounds heavy You call desktop the Idea that a smaller and way cheaper box can offer a Power level more than expected for them and being in the end an excelente, better Deal than building a Pc wich gives headaches by Just suggestining (too much efforts, better Go to Walmart/bestbuy and grab a console on a single purchase lmao).

I Tell things How they are. Im not naive, my friend, and I can see emtions through words and I can read their minds, intentions and How their agenda works.

Also, every generation is a different historicsl context on both VALUE and TECH, partnerships etc. BOTH Sony and MS are embracing New stuff (rdna, custom super fast ssd etc) and shooting higher numbers than stadia numbers for obvious reasons, and Just remember that these are 2020 consoles,. Not actually 2019 consoles.
 
CameFromNearFuture said:
I can Tell You that many people dont Just speculate, they basically have huge Desires for the consoles to have avearage at best gpu because of an ego problem. It Hurts their ego, their proud and money invested on that huge, 1000 pounds heavy You call desktop the Idea that a smaller and way cheaper box can offer a Power level more than expected for them and being in the end an excelente, better Deal than building a Pc wich gives headaches by Just suggestining (too much efforts, better Go to Walmart/bestbuy and grab a console on a single purchase lmao).

I Tell things How they are. Im not naive, my friend, and I can see emtions through words and I can read their minds, intentions and How their agenda works.

Also, every generation is a different historicsl context on both VALUE and TECH, partnerships etc. BOTH Sony and MS are embracing New stuff (rdna, custom super fast ssd etc) and shooting higher numbers than stadia numbers for obvious reasons, and Just remember that these are 2020 consoles,. Not actually 2019 consoles.
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In the near future do they not use periods anymore?

Also, your idea of PC gaming is strange to me.

- The amount of PC gamers that actually want consoles to fail, or be underpowered, is a tiny, minuscule amount of trolls.
- The average PC gamer probably owns a console, and even when they don't they want powerful consoles because console tech generally holds back PC tech (especially years after console launch).
- PCs don't weigh 1000 lbs and don't have to be huge. My brother has one that is not much bigger than the xbox one.
- RDNA is PC tech too I think?
- These super fast SSDs are basically what pcs have had for a while but just a newer gen. PCs will get those, if they are actually better than Nvme, within a year or two of console launch.
- You don't have to build a PC. There are companies like iBuyPower, and CyberPowerPC that will put one together for you using the same parts you would buy off the shelf.
- It will always be easier to go to best buy and buy a console, I never argued against that lol.
 
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CameFromNearFuture said:
BOTH Sony and MS are embracing New stuff (rdna, custom super fast ssd etc) and shooting higher numbers than stadia numbers for obvious reasons, and Just remember that these are 2020 consoles,. Not actually 2019 consoles.
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If anything, PS5 and XSX (is that the right acronym?) will be behind compared to PS4 and XBO at launch. Jaguar and GCN didn't come out until 2013, the year both consoles were released. The consoles releasing in 2020 will be using Ryzen 2 CPUs and RDNA GPUs, both of which released in 2019. By the time they're out both Ryzen 4000 and Nvidia's new 3000 series cards will have been out for months.
 
CameFromNearFuture said:
Im talking the result on the screen wich is what matter most. Infamous SS and Killzone at PSMEETING were what we got in 2013/14 with no downgrade whatsoever, and I wouldnt doubt that HELLBLADE is an accurate representative of what we can get out of these box's in 1 2 years, and If this is true, seriously, who cares when we are approaching CG level ?
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Infamous still looks incredible. Killzone also but just more aliased
 
Insane Metal said:
u37rxN2.png
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If we are talking about Jaguar architecture, 2x probably falls short.
 
LazyParrot said:
If anything, PS5 and XSX (is that the right acronym?) will be behind compared to PS4 and XBO at launch. Jaguar and GCN didn't come out until 2013, the year both consoles were released. The consoles releasing in 2020 will be using Ryzen 2 CPUs and RDNA GPUs, both of which released in 2019. By the time they're out both Ryzen 4000 and Nvidia's new 3000 series cards will have been out for months.
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Bingo. Consoles will still have great performance compared to last gen, but this idea that they will launch and somehow beat out machines that cost $2-3k is ridiculous.

I will be impressed if both are 12tf with raytracing, expensive new SSD tech and still cost $400. $500 at 10tf seems more realistic to me but maybe I am wrong. Didn't Spencer insinuate that Xbox SeX is 12TF?
 
Jesus the amount of horrible posts in this thread mind boggling. How do these people get out bed in the morning without somehow killings themselves with the sheets?
 
Croatoan said:
In the near future do they not use periods anymore?

Also, your idea of PC gaming is strange to me.

- The amount of PC gamers that actually want consoles to fail, or be underpowered, is a tiny, minuscule amount of trolls.
- The average PC gamer probably owns a console, and even when they don't they want powerful consoles because console tech generally holds back PC tech (especially years after console launch).
- PCs don't weigh 1000 lbs and don't have to be huge. My brother has one that is not much bigger than the xbox one.
- RDNA is PC tech too I think?
- These super fast SSDs are basically what pcs have had for a while but just a newer gen. PCs will get those, if they are actually better than Nvme, within a year or two of console launch.
- You don't have to build a PC. There are companies like iBuyPower, and CyberPowerPC that will put one together for you using the same parts you would buy off the shelf.
- It will always be easier to go to best buy and buy a console, I never argued against that lol.
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Of course I am exaggerating on DESKTOP weight lol. Its Just a hyperbole joke that doesnt make the point Lost its value as It still holds some truth

As for SSD, it doesnt seem to be an average generic SSD and theres a difference when developers know everysingle user for that platform Will has an SSD inside and can finally develop the game with that in mind and take real advantage.

SSD Will suddenly become a requirement for many games wich currently a rare care, or am I wrong ?

And lastly, its Fair to say that the radical minority is always the more vocal one.regardless of the subject (polítics/games etc), so dont blame me for having that bad impression. At least you recognize that they do exist, hence why I feel the need to say some incovenient truths even If It sounds a bit unfair and controverse.
 
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Wow lots of talking in here without really good substance to it.
evanft said:
Jesus the amount of horrible posts in this thread mind boggling. How do these people get out bed in the morning without somehow killings themselves with the sheets?
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Yeah that's what I thought too but without that thing in the end about people killing themselves just because they know jackshit about console and pc hardware.

In any case, some people really need to read articles on pc and console hardware and if it's too difficult, digital foundry makes videos and there was one recently about the expected performance of the next consoles.
 
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That Senua's trailer was a nice bit of theater but honestly it was a like a showreel of UE5 tech demo scenes strung together. Break it down and its actually pretty simplistic if well executed. First couple of shots are mostly empty panoramic vistas, then it cuts to a very nicely mo-capped single-character facial setup, and the rest are just linear tracking shots across geometrically simple and constrained locations with fairly limited animation.

Its all good stuff, but looking at it critically its all standard setups with the display sliders pushed up to 11. Its cleverly constructed as a trailer to distract from the fact that every shot showcases a single piece of tech, and to give the impression that the game it represents is capable of doing all these things at the same time.

Watch it shot-by-shot and pay attention to the way the scope switches on each cut, its pretty clever and artistically quite marvellous. But all that being said its really quite standard stuff.
 
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CameFromNearFuture said:
Of course I am exaggerating on DESKTOP weight lol. Its Just a hyperbole joke that doesnt make the point Lost its value as It still holds some truth

As for SSD, it doesnt seem to be an average generic SSD and theres a difference when developers know everysingle user for that platform Will has an SSD inside and can finally develop the game with that in mind and take real advantage.

SSD Will suddenly become a requirement for many games wich currently a rare care, or am I wrong ?

And lastly, its Fair to say that the radical minority is always the more vocal one.regardless of the subject (polítics/games etc), so dont blame me for having that bad impression. At least you recognize that they do exist, hence why I feel the need to say some incovenient truths even If It sounds a bit unfair and controverse.
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- If you are PC gaming in 2019 without a SSD you are doing it wrong. They are not rare, especially since prices have gone down.
- We actually don't know if these new console SSDs are that much better than the newer Nvme drives that PCs have right now. Wont know that until DF or other places can test everything.
- Consoles finally joining PC in using SSDs will likely mean that mechanical drives go the way of the dinosaur. Which is fine by me. Will they become a requirement? Maybe? That depends on how devs choose to use them.
 
Clear said:
That Senua's trailer was a nice bit of theater but honestly it was a like a showreel of UE5 tech demo scenes strung together. Break it down and its actually pretty simplistic if well executed. First couple of shots are mostly empty panoramic vistas, then it cuts to a very nicely mo-capped single-character facial setup, and the rest are just linear tracking shots across geometrically simple and constrained locations with fairly limited animation.

Its all good stuff, but looking at it critically its all standard setups with the display sliders pushed up to 11. Its cleverly constructed as a trailer to distract from the fact that every shot showcases a single piece of tech, and to give the impression that the game it represents is capable of doing all these things at the same time.

Watch it shot-by-shot and pay attention to the way the scope switches on each cut, its pretty clever and artistically quite marvellous. But all that being said its really quite standard stuff.
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But no game today is even doing it. Which is why it's impressive.
 
I'll wait for in-game or game play footage. We've all been here before, we've all seen "in-engine" passed off as "what you should expect" and we know how that usually works out. On a side note, that trailer was INTENSE!
 
Croatoan said:
Consoles finally joining PC in using SSDs will likely mean that mechanical drives go the way of the dinosaur.
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It will happen eventually, but console SSD adoption will have nothing to do with it. It's such a tiny piece of the market that it won't make a difference at all. Mechanical drives are still the best option for scenarios where capacity is more important than speed, and that won't change in the foreseeable future.
 
LazyParrot said:
It will happen eventually, but console SSD adoption will have nothing to do with it. It's such a tiny piece of the market that it won't make a difference at all. Mechanical drives are still the best option for scenarios where capacity is more important than speed, and that won't change in the foreseeable future.
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Ehh, I have gone to two 1TB SSD drives in my pc. In my next build, next year some time, I think I will go 1 1 TB m.2 NVme and 1 1 TB SSD. Mechanical drives are not THAT much cheaper.

If SSDs become a requirement for gaming then you could say consoles had something to do with it because they are always the lowest spec devs build for.
 
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It does looks great, but we have not seen enough in the actual game to make that kind of broad statement about how powerful the console will end up being.

Also, stating that a 2080 super (or regular 2080) will be obsolete because a console can render about the same materials/shaders/physics/polygons/etc. is a bit strange, worse comes to worse you cut the quality of a couple of graphics settings that may be barely visible and you can play your games at high frame rates just like you did with the previous generation or card.

Most people don't have a card that expensive, most PC gamers don't have an 8 core CPU yet, etc. also, if you keep playing Fortnite it won't make any difference what consoles do.

Now, what I am hoping for these next gen consoles is a usable ray tracing feature (it works at decent frame rates at high resolutions)
 
ethomaz said:
That was at time of DirectX 9 yet.
Modern API didn't have that much overhead and are more close to console APIs.

So the 2x is not true anymore.

The big difference today are optimizations because APIs like Vulkan or even DirectX 12 offer close performance to console APIs.
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Yes, this was around the time when low-level graphics APIs didn't exist, so in hindsight, I think it's pretty whack to post this in 2019, when from what I recall even John Carmack went out to correct himself a few years later.
 
BesuBaru said:
Yes, this was around the time when low-level graphics APIs didn't exist, so in hindsight, I think it's pretty whack to post this in 2019, when from what I recall even John Carmack went out to correct himself a few years later.
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Yeap it could be a really nice interview asking him the same question today.
 
As of right now what GPU is the most likely to compare to Series X and/or PS5? I guess there's no way to know for sure currently right? But if people had to guess, what like a 2070 Super?
 
Croatoan said:
Ehh, I have gone to two 1TB SSD drives in my pc. In my next build, next year some time, I think I will go 1 1 TB m.2 NVme and 1 1 TB SSD. Mechanical drives are not THAT much cheaper.
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A decent 1 TB SSD will set you back around 100 Euros. A decent 1 TB HDD (WD Blue 1 TB) can be had for as little as 35. That's a pretty huge difference. Not to mention that that's very much on the low end in terms of capacity. Anyone who is serious about storing data will need way more than that. I have 10 TB myself, and at those capacities SSD prices can go as high as 200 Euros/TB.
 
Insane Metal said:
Yes they will and since consoles are a closed platform it'll have around twice the performance compared to a pc part as per Carmack.

EDit:

u37rxN2.png


Edit: @nkarafo laughing why?
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I honestly don't know what people are laughing of... try running a game like God of War on a PC with the same parts as a PS4 to see what happens. This is what I mean (and Carmack too).
 
Insane Metal said:
I honestly don't know what people are laughing of... try running a game like God of War on a PC with the same parts as a PS4 to see what happens. This is what I mean (and Carmack too).
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How convenient that you picked a game that will never be available on PC. I guess that's one way to ensure you won't be proven wrong.

Why not do it the other way around? Find a game that's available on both PS4 and PC that runs twice as fast on console at similar settings. My old PC (mid-range hardware from 2010, except for a GTX 760) ran Overwatch at 120-200 fps at 1080p. Think a base model PS4 can do that?
 
Chunk Loves Sloth said:
As of right now what GPU is the most likely to compare to Series X and/or PS5? I guess there's no way to know for sure currently right? But if people had to guess, what like a 2070 Super?
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I'm guessing it's going to end up between 2060 Super and 2070 Super.

Phil Spencer said 2x Xbox One X. Many people (including myself initially) took this as being 12 Tflops.

But 12 Navi teraflops is actually more like 2.5x Xbox One X, which used Polaris. DF concluded that Navi is 1.28x Polaris so I'm using that for this calculation.

I'm guessing it ends up actually being like 9-10 Navi Tflops which has the performance of ~12 Polaris Tflops.

And 9-10 Navi Tflops is in the range of 2060 Super to 2070 Super.
 
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Every begining of gen starts out with this bull videos. Games are going to look great next gen and I was impressed with some parts, and not so impressed with others. Godfall same thing.

Also take into account getting games running at 4K and good frame rates and usually devs have to start thinking about cutting effects due to cost. They could have this game running a 1 FPS and then speed up the video LOL.
 
LazyParrot said:
How convenient that you picked a game that will never be available on PC. I guess that's one way to ensure you won't be proven wrong.

Why not do it the other way around? Find a game that's available on both PS4 and PC that runs twice as fast on console at similar settings. My old PC (mid-range hardware from 2010, except for a GTX 760) ran Overwatch at 120-200 fps at 1080p. Think a base model PS4 can do that?
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Maybe try running BF1 on a pc with comparable CPU and GPU?
 
raysoft76 said:
I guess the reason for "in-engine" for Hellblade is because they don't have final silicon yet, so the video is a baseline of what they expect to deliver.
i.e. it could be rendered on a rx5700 (or what's currently inside the devkit) with lower fps, but it's at least rendered with the game-engine.
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It was rendered on the PC. Epic produced it. I seriously doubt it was rendered on any AMD board at all.
 
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LazyParrot said:
If anything, PS5 and XSX (is that the right acronym?) will be behind compared to PS4 and XBO at launch. Jaguar and GCN didn't come out until 2013, the year both consoles were released. The consoles releasing in 2020 will be using Ryzen 2 CPUs and RDNA GPUs, both of which released in 2019. By the time they're out both Ryzen 4000 and Nvidia's new 3000 series cards will have been out for months.
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Yes, that is and always will be true. It's a race they will never catch. Nvidia doesn't have to release the 3xx series next year but they will. And it will be probably close to 2x faster than the 2xxTi series. Hardware development from MS and Sony can't keep up with that exponential development from Nvidia. AMD is a few years behind Nvidia and not sure if they'll ever catch up. Don't forget that Intel will enter the fray next year as well.
 
Hayabusabruh said:
I'm confused though. Doesn't look like pre render, or even cg. It just straight looks real. Lies?
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You can only get past the uncanny valley with the power of a $500 console. Its also an 8k 60-120fps beast! Coding to the metal, loading so fast that you cry to Sony/MS, "Please, Sony/MS, make it load slower so I can at least take a sip of tea! I am so thirsty."

Fuck you, and shut your yapper. This console is so quick its already made it to the top of the mountain, but, oh boy, its only half way there!

Think about it.
 
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stranno said:
If we are talking about Jaguar architecture, 2x probably falls short.
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I don't know, put that shit CPU in a PC and try too run the same games. The cores are clocked absurdely low and the CPU is weak, even compared to lower FX 3600 series desktop parts. CPu should be a nice upgrade in the consoles, but PC will be far ahead again.

VFXVeteran said:
Yes, that is and always will be true. It's a race they will never catch. Nvidia doesn't have to release the 3xx series next year but they will. And it will be probably close to 2x faster than the 2xxTi series. Hardware development from MS and Sony can't keep up with that exponential development from Nvidia. AMD is a few years behind Nvidia and not sure if they'll ever catch up. Don't forget that Intel will enter the fray next year as well.
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Nvidia is better but they charge a premium price for their stronger GPUs too, 2080ti is far over 1000€.
 
I lost IQ points reading some posts in this thread. I feel like I time travelled back to 2005 when console kids believed their consoles were super computers running on fairy dust.
 
VFXVeteran said:
Yes, that is and always will be true. It's a race they will never catch. Nvidia doesn't have to release the 3xx series next year but they will. And it will be probably close to 2x faster than the 2xxTi series. Hardware development from MS and Sony can't keep up with that exponential development from Nvidia. AMD is a few years behind Nvidia and not sure if they'll ever catch up. Don't forget that Intel will enter the fray next year as well.
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Where do you think Intel's discrete GPU offerings will end up falling? Do you think they'll attempt to challenge Nvidia for the graphics crown or battle it out with AMD for a slice of that budget/mid-range GPU market?

Fingers crossed it won't be Larrabee all over again.
 
SavageSquirtle said:
Where do you think Intel's discrete GPU offerings will end up falling? Do you think they'll attempt to challenge Nvidia for the graphics crown or battle it out with AMD for a slice of that budget/mid-range GPU market?

Fingers crossed it won't be Larrabee all over again.
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I don't know. I just think Intel wants a piece of the pie and I don't blame them. 2 companies doing all the R&D when you have a thoroughbred just focusing on CPUs is a little lazy to me. I think that Intel's chips are going to be integrated ones though. Not full blown PCIe cards. That's just my guess.
 
LazyParrot said:
This has always been true, though. Choosing a gaming laptop over a desktop is throwing money out the window for the vast majority of users. Almost everyone I know who bought one thinking they needed something portable ended up never using it anywhere other than their desk.
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There's a certain je ne sais quoi about the neat setup of a gaming laptop tho.
 
Insane Metal said:
Yes they will and since consoles are a closed platform it'll have around twice the performance compared to a pc part as per Carmack.
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That Carmack tweet is outdated as fuck and hasn't been true the entire generation

Ever since consoles went x86 the "optimization" has become mostly a myth, similarly specced PC gives the same performance as console at same settings and resolution

And no, RTX2080 will not be outdated, it will still be stronger than consoles.
 
Denton said:
That Carmack tweet is outdated as fuck and hasn't been true the entire generation

Ever since consoles went x86 the "optimization" has become mostly a myth, similarly specced PC gives the same performance as console at same settings and resolution

And no, RTX2080 will not be outdated, it will still be stronger than consoles.
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I doubt that but we'll see :)
 
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