Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Dodkrake said:
Please point out how many SSD's in the market achieve 5.5GB/s sequential read.

Also, XSX SSD is nothing to be proud of. It's slower than medium high tier SSD's.
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"It's got a God-tier storage system which is pretty far ahead of PCs, bon [but?] a high-end PC with an SSD and especially with NVMe, you get awesome performance too."

According to the guy who runs epic, an NVMe will give you "awesome performance" Maybe 5.5 is overkill? Best you can find rn seems to be about 5.

Implying a normal, Sata ssd will have good preformance as well means any NVMe should be great, as they're huge step up.


But maybe you know more than Tim Sweney? Quotes from the DF article


pasterpl said:
so this is not native 4K and "only" 30fps? Is this due to gpu limitations?
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One would have to assume. I/O difficultly causes stutter regardless of res most often because of asset size, so that's not likely to be the limit. And nothing but streaming seems to be CPU demanding here, so that probably isn't it either.
 
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Personally for me this did nothing. There are lots of impressive tech demos already. But good showing by Unreal and it was running on PS5 so that is a good thing.
 
dan_of_orion said:
because there is a difference between streaming in 2.4 GB/s (Series X) of data vs streaming in 5.5 GB/s (PS5), that's double the I/O. The devs could pull it of on Series X but they'll need to a lot workarounds and tricks with the data streaming where as the PS5 would be able to handle it on the hardware level. We already heard so many people say the PS5 will able to pull of games which just won't be possible on Series X and PC's. This is just good speculation on part and it makes sense, but we'll have to wait and see I guess.
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-XsX has more RAM bandwidth, and more Compute Units (hence more TFLOPS), slightly faster CPU, and supposedly better implementation of Ray Tracing. Care to speculate on how the demo might look like on XsX based on that information alone?
-Unreal Engine 5 with Lumen and other stuff is also being used for XsX and PC.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
Ill give you that it may not be possible on XsX because of its slower hard drive (I think it is highly possible), but saying its not possible on PC? Uhh.......
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The issue with current PC gaming configurations is that you can't brute force through bottlenecks in transfer speed with an excess in raw computational power.

Even with an SSD as fast as the one on PS5 (which is ridiculous and barely on the market in the near future), you will still be a bit slower due to the I/O and decompression process not being set up for this instantaneous transfer of asset from SSD to RAM. It's a matter of sheer time required to perform the action.

Are there workarounds? Sure: you can pre-load more assets, which means you need more RAM, and/or you can load lower quality versions of assets, which means some degree of visual downgrade. But just plugging in a 1 TB/s SSD and saying "GPU overkill will do the rest to fill the gap" won't really work.
 
SlimySnake said:
who needs ray tracing when you already have multi bounce global illumination.
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GI is only one part of Raytracing. there will also be reflections. I guess this will be the main difference between PS5 and xSX game next gen. Microsoft will take every opportunity to put in shiny reflective assets in their games regardless of artistic value.
 
So, that was fucking amazing. That's how you say "next-gen" loud and clear. And running on a PS5, making absolutely clear the fact that the SSD is key in delivering this kind of graphics. Well done Epic/Sony.

And, just in case, I'm not saying this can't be done on the Xbox, not at all, but Sony, through this reveal, just gained quite some momentum and pretty much denied all SSD naysayers. Well done indeed.

 
pasterpl said:
so this is not native 4K and "only" 30fps? Is this due to gpu limitations?
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I don't think GPU limitations is the right way to think about it. The team likely targeted a spec and resolution necessary to showcase UE5 to its fullest, and this is how it runs on a PS5 devkit.

It's a brand new engine with dynamic GI and film quality assets, and given the delta between PS5 and XBSX, this isn't going to run at 4k native on either console unless optimizations or concessions are made (which runs totally opposite to the point they were making today).
 
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Kazekage1981 said:
-XsX has more RAM bandwidth, and more Compute Units (hence more TFLOPS), slightly faster CPU, and supposedly better implementation of Ray Tracing. Care to speculate on how the demo might look like on XsX based on that information alone?
-Unreal Engine 5 with Lumen and other stuff is also being used for XsX and PC.
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1. More RAM bandwidth but roughly the same fill rate
2. More CU's =/= better performance
3. 100MHz advantage on CPU is negligible
4. We don't know that
 
Corndog said:
Ssd does not render graphics. Exact same demo could be done on pc with a standard hdd. It would just need adequate ram.
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I never said it renders graphics, I said it removes a major bottleneck which in effect can improve graphics as a result. Yes a PC can do it with the appropriate amount of RAM but it wouldn't be viable to take that approach in a console any time soon. Consoles still set the baseline for the most part and the only way this paradigm shift was going to occur was as a result of SSDs and optimised I/O stacks being implemented, which both console manufacturers have done, but Sony moreso.

Nowhere in my prior post did I make this a PC vs Console thing.
 
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Wow. This demo was truly something that gave me the sense of "next gen" and I couldn't even see it in 4k! The speed and level of detail without pop in, etc. was STUNNING. If Sony can at all, they should follow this up TODAY or tomorrow at the latest with some other tidbit or presentation that's PS5 related.

I'm also not naive enough to expect that this demo couldn't run on the new Xbox either. I'm sure it can. Probably just a little more difficult or requiring a trick or two where it's a bit easier on the PS5 side due to the I/O and SSD speed. But definitely doable for Xbox, I'm sure.

This thing and the tech behind it are SUPER impressive though. That flying segment- I was like 'no way this is gameplay' but it was! Truly impressive. Hellblade 2 looked great but that stuff also didn't look like actual GAMEPLAY. I'm sure it would be close but even if Hellblade 2 WAS gameplay, THIS demo was far more impressive. Hell, I want to play this game! I'm hoping this is a 'vertical slice' of some real game that's in development, but it might just be a purpose built gameplay demo from Epic. Time will tell.

Seriously, Sony needs to follow up this demo with some information THIS WEEK. It would really catapult them forward with some great momentum and buzz, especially in the wake of the not too well received MS demo. Just saying from a marketing perspective I think it would be a smart move from them. Not sure if they're ready for it though.

Bottom line, this was the best demo I've seen thus far related to next gen. Really makes me look forward to us getting our hands on MORE demos and footage and of course, getting those new consoles hooked up to our TV's just as SOON AS POSSIBLE! :)

Hype train is back on the track!
 
Agnostic2020 said:
He said running 4k in stream where did u get 1440p from ?
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From the eurogamer article which went up alongside that

www.eurogamer.net

This is next-gen: see Unreal Engine 5 running on PlayStation 5

We've seen the specs, we've heard the pitches - but what we haven't experienced is any demonstration of a genuine next-…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

[...]in the demo we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time.[...]
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Neo Blaster said:
Didn't they say on the interview it was running on a PS5 devkit?
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Yes? Not sure what that has to do with my comment though.

Running on PS5 doesn't mean it required a PS5; although Epic did make a statement that implied the level of detail required the PS5 I/O, they also said this was possible on PC/XSX but didn't have performance comparisons.
 
thurnishaleygw said:
So, that was fucking amazing. That's how you say "next-gen" loud and clear. And running on a PS5, making absolutely clear the fact that the SSD is key in delivering this kind of graphics. Well done Epic/Sony.

And, just in case, I'm not saying this can't be done on the Xbox, not at all, but Sony, through this reveal, just gained quite some momentum and pretty much denied all SSD naysayers. Well done indeed.

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Totally agree. Now if they're able, Sony needs to follow this up with some more info of their own! Would really put them in the pole position market and mind-share wise at this point.
 
megreotsugua said:
BILLIONS OF TRIANGLES TO THE LEFT! BILLIONS OF TRIANGLES TO THE RIGHT! BILLIONS OT TRIANGLES ABOVE, BELOW, BEHIND, OVER THERE, EVERYWHEEEEEREEEE!!!

THIS IS NEXT-GEN!!!

SSD BABY!!!
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Here is the thing, are you really gonna look to the left and look to the right, behind and above admiring the texture work and detail and the billions of triangles? Most people are just gonna go forward and get a glimpse and appreciate it from that perspective. Hence, in my opinion those billions of triangles are being wasted, and in my opinion, the developer should reduce the billions of triangles to increase:

Resolution and frame rate

because there is a way for those side rocks/walls to have the same appearance without needing so many triangles.
 
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Doesn't matter what resolution it was running at, but they had a better next gen "show case" than Xbox. People want to see what next gen consoles are capable of and how SSD will improve next gen graphics outside of just "loading."
 
Thirty7ven said:
Lol who gives a fuck if that was 4k or not. Some of you are crazy man.
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Well, because 4k looks WAY better than just "regular" HD and also because it makes the demo more impressive due to the fact that SO MANY MORE pixels are being pushed around in such a fluid manner at a high rate of speed.
 
Agnostic2020 said:
Maybe that's the stream they r analysing cause he explicitly said running 4k in the stream.
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My quote from prior was not from DF, but from Nicolas Penwarden VP of Engineering at Epic games in the article.

rendering one triangle per pixel essentially means that performance scales closely with resolution. "Interestingly, it does work very well with our dynamic resolution technique as well," adds Penwarden. "So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit and then we can adapt to that. In the demo we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time."

Penwarden also confirms that the temporal accumulation system seen in Unreal Engine 4 - which essentially adds detail from prior frames to increase resolution in the current one - is also used in UE5 and in this demo.
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The output resolution was 4K.
 
Insane Metal said:
???

It is a very important information. WTH is wrong with that?
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Important to what?

It was showing an incredible amount of detail with an extremely clean image both in still and fast motion. From DF:

We've spent a long time poring over a range of 3840x2160 uncompressed PNG screenshots supplied by the firm. They defy pixel-counting, with resolution as a metric pretty much as meaningless as it is for, say, a Blu-ray movie. But temporal accumulation does so much more for UE5 than just anti-aliasing or image reconstruction - it underpins the Lumen GI system.
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So yeah, why the hell does it matter?

Avatar at 1080P looks better than Crysis 1 at 4K. Individually these things don't matter at all.

Sinthor said:
Well, because 4k looks WAY better than just "regular" HD and also because it makes the demo more impressive due to the fact that SO MANY MORE pixels are being pushed around in such a fluid manner at a high rate of speed.
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Yeah it will make the demo more impressive in your mind. But when you saw it for the first time, your eyes couldn't even guess what res it was running at.
 
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thebigmanjosh said:
I don't think GPU limitations is the right way to think about it. The team likely targeted a spec and resolution necessary to showcase UE5 to its fullest, and this is how it runs on a PS5 devkit.

It's a brand new engine with dynamic GI and film quality assets, and given the delta between PS5 and XBSX, this isn't going to run at 4k native on either console unless optimizations or concessions are made (which runs totally opposite to the point they were making today).
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If what we saw was not 4k native, then I don't give a damn about resolution, just gimme that image quality.
 
thurnishaleygw said:
So, that was fucking amazing. That's how you say "next-gen" loud and clear. And running on a PS5, making absolutely clear the fact that the SSD is key in delivering this kind of graphics. Well done Epic/Sony.

And, just in case, I'm not saying this can't be done on the Xbox, not at all, but Sony, through this reveal, just gained quite some momentum and pretty much denied all SSD naysayers. Well done indeed.

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there are SSD naysayers?
 
Kazekage1981 said:
Here is the thing, are you really gonna look to the left and look to the right, behind and above admiring the texture work and detail and the billions of triangles? Most people are just gonna go forward and get a glimpse and appreciate it from that perspective. Hence, in my opinion those billions of triangles are being wasted, and in my opinion, the developer should reduce the billions of triangles to increase:

Resolution and frame rate

because there is a way for those side rocks/walls to have the same appearance without needing so many triangles.
Click to expand...

Those triangles are not rendered if you are far away from them. The SSD and fast I/O only allows the stored details (billions of triangles) just in time when the character is near it.

Those billions of triangles behind you, above you, on left and right outside your peripherals and those far away from you are not rendered.

This ties in with what Cerny discussed as the Geometry Engine and Primitive Shaders.

Edit: As regards the resolution and fps. That would still be game dependent. I suppose this could still be optimized. And it's running on an early PS5.
 
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Kazekage1981 said:
Here is the thing, are you really gonna look to the left and look to the right, behind and above admiring the texture work and detail and the billions of triangles? Most people are just gonna go forward and get a glimpse and appreciate it from that perspective. Hence, in my opinion those billions of triangles are being wasted, and in my opinion, the developer should reduce the billions of triangles to increase:

Resolution and frame rate

because there is a way for those side rocks/walls to have the same appearance without needing so many triangles.
Click to expand...
Man, this looks like serious damage control. Relax, you'll see something like that on your favorite piece of plastic.
 
Codexer said:
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But but the SSD is not so important are the TF the unpaid marketing people which make videos and tweets of some company told me that ....listen first the devs not the fans or the marketing people
and yes I say dev which actually working not analyst.

Is like you not vaccinated because someone in a tweet said that they were not useful, there is no such idiot to believe it ... oh wait that explains a lot.
 
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Sinthor said:
Well, because 4k looks WAY better than just "regular" HD and also because it makes the demo more impressive due to the fact that SO MANY MORE pixels are being pushed around in such a fluid manner at a high rate of speed.
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4k is overkill and it also kills any system nowadays. Let's not pretend 4k gaming is something real even on PCs. Very few people use it.
 
Kazekage1981 said:
Here is the thing, are you really gonna look to the left and look to the right, behind and above admiring the texture work and detail and the billions of triangles? Most people are just gonna go forward and get a glimpse and appreciate it from that perspective. Hence, in my opinion those billions of triangles are being wasted, and in my opinion, the developer should reduce the billions of triangles to increase:

Resolution and frame rate

because there is a way for those side rocks/walls to have the same appearance without needing so many triangles.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid this part of the GPU is independent of the shaders - fewer polygons will not result in a higher resolution.

But apart from that ... I want realistic worlds in NextGen! So I'm for as many polygons as possible!
 
husomc said:
GI is only one part of Raytracing. there will also be reflections. I guess this will be the main difference between PS5 and xSX game next gen. Microsoft will take every opportunity to put in shiny reflective assets in their games regardless of artistic value.
Click to expand...
ps5 also has ray tracing. cerny mentioned a game with complex animations that was running reflections with only a modest hit in performance.
 
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