- Status
Lethal01
Member
"at typical TV viewing distances (~8ft) " Some people game on monitors.
Tiago07
Member
I'm liking the way this debate is going.
I think it's possible in the Future the PC have only hardcore gamers (that matters to play in 4k and 60 or more fps) or Multiplayer gamers (CS, LOL ). Even more if NextGen Consoles have a performance mode.
Because
-Theorical SSD speed doesn't matter because of Bottlenecks. PC doesn't have a I/O and implement this to PC is not easy.
- Players will need a ridiculous number of RAM and VRAM to run a NextGen game that will probably have some bugs by the loading time.
- Ultra Mode can become insignificant or inexistent.
Like I'm saying (if im not wrong) the Ultra is a mode that increase the number of Polygons and geometry/triangles on PC to create a more fidelity graphic. But PS5 Billions of Billions of triangles on UE5, has broken this I think.
- We have the loading time problem but some players prefer FPS so it's probably to these hardcore players use their high budget to buy a high level PC.
- Like you said it's possible to some games don't come to PC at least in their launch.
So the only advantage of PC will be Ray Tracing (probably Path Tracing) and FPS, but you will need to spend so much money for a PC to do that (even if NextGen mid-eng Videocards be better to RT the number of RAM and VRAM will need to increase and that is expensive). PC largest advantage was better graphics but this will dissapear like nothing.
But AMD, Nvidia and Intel can work together to create a I/O.
I can see a scenario like that in the future, with today high advantage of the I/O.
But I don't know everything and I try to understand. So, I can be totally wrong in the end.
FeiRR
Banned
It's a popular misconception that game settings on PC are some kind of industry standard. They're not. Each studio sets them to their liking, something like difficulty levels in games. The name for "all supported features and highest settings" can be Ultra, High, OMG or whatever they choose. It's only common to call it Ultra. Also no, you won't get any geometry increase/reduction with that. It's become possible only right now and the first use we've seen is Nanite from Epic in UE5 (still not shown on PC, mind you).
PC gaming enthusiasts and rich Youtubers with hundreds of thousands of viewers will still have their bubble but you might be right that the average mustard race Joe will cry and buy a console. I'm glad jumped that train over 10 years ago. It has saved me a lot of money and time.
K
Kise Ryota
Unconfirmed Member
And? It doesn't make the 'it will be a blurry mess' statement a hundred percent true for everyone (far from it, actually).
Metroiddarks
Member
I am disagree for a simple reason a PC always will involve , so each couple of years new products are released with more features and more power.
-NVIDIA will found a way to solve for the "correct" price the problem with SSD in consoles
-Yes many pc gamer will migrate but this will not kill pc gaming
-Ultra mode will be only accessible for super high end pc this first years, but when the consoles have 5/6 years in the market the PC will have
available DDR5, GDDR7/HBMN3, SSD for PCIe 5. Basically the competition between AMD, Intel, NVIDIA will increase the performance drastically in
the next years. In that moment PC master race will be the again insufferable we know that.
-The will return to PC if the medium segment are above the console in a noticeable way like gtx 1060 vs PS4/Xbox one.
Right now I only see two problems in the future for the console the 16GB memory will become a problem in some years especially when you already have a
bandwidth far of be impressive and your RT is good maybe now but in 4 years well.
I love the technology involve so much as the medium of gaming involve and I don't want any stop at least while I am alive but if this year continue in this way
all we are going to die this december.
Neo Blaster
Member
Isn't him the one who made a PS4 teardown in 2013?ERA is saying the guy is probably that one in the far way... his face is half covered.
ToadMan
Member
It was the investor conference call actually ...
Here's the quote :
"But in any case you will be able to play the game on next-gen from 19th November when the game releases and it will look better than on current-gen from that moment as well."
And then goes on to say the full fat next generation version will come later.
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Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
People always want to complain about something .. nothing can satisfy them
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
The issue is exactly that, this is like the 3rd fake pic of a PS5 photoshopped on Era so that people react like 'it's huge!' or looks bad. We even had that here when someone posted a size comparison where the depth of the console was made to be enormous.
This campaign is part of the same crap as 'PS5 has no VRS', 'PS5 isn't 10.3yflops' etc
Rusco Da Vino
Member
This is why we usually dont see Sony coming out to deny fakes. They mass-market their products and do not give a fuck about those silly "concerns".
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Dibils2k
Member
that is something xbox fans dhouldnt be bragging about... it should be something sony fans should be complaining about! you are literally getting fked up the ass and smiling about it
maybe they will have another solution for their exclusives but if they release remasters of something like TLOU2 instead of a free upgrade... lol
HAL-01
Member
they literally already said TLOU2 and other first party games are getting free next gen patches/upgrades, and third parties are following suit as well. we're not complaining because theres nothing to complain about, MS just gave it a marketable name
FeiRR
Banned
zaitsu
Banned
I have no words for you. You must be delusional. CP2077 upgrades come free, and that's not even first party game. SMART DELIVERY( aka next gen patch made by developer xD) is also present on PS5.
Best thing that MS made so far into next generation is catchy names .
I/O - velocity architecture
Next gen patch - smart delivery
All you need few buzzing words that their fans don't understand and using them like the sword.
megreotsugua
Banned
If your game show "signs" of VRS, it means it shows signs of "blurring". Like that Gears Tactics video by DF.
So saying that PS5 shows no sign of VRS is a good thing. PS5 is confirmed to have VRS by devs. I don't know why Alex of DF is making a fuss about it.
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ethomaz
Banned
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BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
Ah I assumed "that delay message" pointed to the Tweet that was posted a few replies above.
I'm betting it will just be a resolution/frame-rate bump as that would be a simple zero effort thing to implement right away and would be easy to test.
If it's an identical game to PS4 then it suggests maybe they're using dynamic resolution scaling in which case PS5 would run a PS4 game using that pinned at maximum with little no no dropping in resolution.
jackets with pockets
Banned
I did some comparison work and the logo size and location seem to match rather perfectly. I still think, like some others here, that the side view should not look that squarish, even though there clearly is an indication of curvature on the right side. EDIT: And, if you experiment with brightness/contrast values you can clearly see the curvature on the lower right side of the plate.
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Vae_Victis
Banned
I'd tend to agree with this, the definition of the image is really too low to make a definitive call, but the fact that ELA is inconsistent throughout the image is expected for parts with a single color vs. parts with lots of different colors in sequence.I'm no expert but it is all write so it should looks like that in the pic and give the impression to be fuzzy.
And:
First PS5 image straight from the factory?
Can depth be extrapolated from that image?.www.resetera.com
First PS5 image straight from the factory?
Can depth be extrapolated from that image?.
First PS5 image straight from the factory?
If it does end up being real, it's certainly tall but not as deep as I was concerned it might be.
First PS5 image straight from the factory?
If it does end up being real, it's certainly tall but not as deep as I was concerned it might be.
Edit - This guy explained better than me... I'm not used to image tools.
First PS5 image straight from the factory?
Can depth be extrapolated from that image?.
For example this is an obviously very real picture of Andrew House holding the PS4 Pro, it has a similar overall definition and resolution, and this is what FotoForensics picks up: https://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=bc0a8f7b573c445ea87a91a70f03399f65a09b88.57703
Of course it could always be a good fake created with identical levels of definition and some intentional loss of quality after the deed to uniform the image, but in that case this tool wouldn't be of any help anyway.
BadBreathOfTheWild
Member
Wrong year and video:
PlayStation 4: Unboxing the New Game Console
We got the PlayStation 4! Sony’s new console comes out on November 15 in the US, but we went to Sony’s Tokyo HQ and asked engineering director Yasuhiro Ootori to give WIRED an exclusive look inside the new system—literally. Like, he takes it apart piece by piece and explains what all the parts...
sircaw
Banned
It is amazing the lengths at which people go to, to try and discredit Sony's machine.
Just imagine if their was no push back on this crap lol,
Thank god for this thread and its technical users, for lesser tech savvy minded people like myself we would be trapped in a minefield.
HushiMushi
Banned
Wrong year and video:
PlayStation 4: Unboxing the New Game Console
We got the PlayStation 4! Sony’s new console comes out on November 15 in the US, but we went to Sony’s Tokyo HQ and asked engineering director Yasuhiro Ootori to give WIRED an exclusive look inside the new system—literally. Like, he takes it apart piece by piece and explains what all the parts...www.wired.com
btw: Cerny confirmed that there will also be a teardown from Sony:
PlayStation 5 uncovered: the Mark Cerny tech deep dive
On March 18th, Sony finally broke cover with in-depth information on the technical make-up of PlayStation 5. Expanding …
www.eurogamer.net
Lunatic_Gamer
Member
Xbox's Phil Spencer to keynote next week's Gamelab
PS5 architect Mark Cerny will also return to the now-digital event to talk with Ken Levine. All panels will be offered live for free.
Gamereactor can confirm as the event's official media partner, Head of Xbox Phil Spencer will keynote Gamelab Live 2020. With a TBD talk, the Xbox chief will share his thoughts with attendees on Wednesday at 5pm BST, with the event to be held digitally across June 23, 24, and 25. As per usual with the prestigious conference, other triple-A speakers will follow, including names such as Cyberpunk's Mike Pondsmith, Double Fine's Tim Schafer, and Uncharted's Amy Hennig, among many others. What's more, the event organisers have just revealed that PS5 architect (and Gamelab advisor) Mark Cerny will also join the party, this time together with none other than BioShock creator Ken Levine.
www.gamereactor.eu
PS5 architect Mark Cerny will also return to the now-digital event to talk with Ken Levine. All panels will be offered live for free.
Gamereactor can confirm as the event's official media partner, Head of Xbox Phil Spencer will keynote Gamelab Live 2020. With a TBD talk, the Xbox chief will share his thoughts with attendees on Wednesday at 5pm BST, with the event to be held digitally across June 23, 24, and 25. As per usual with the prestigious conference, other triple-A speakers will follow, including names such as Cyberpunk's Mike Pondsmith, Double Fine's Tim Schafer, and Uncharted's Amy Hennig, among many others. What's more, the event organisers have just revealed that PS5 architect (and Gamelab advisor) Mark Cerny will also join the party, this time together with none other than BioShock creator Ken Levine.
Breaking: Xbox's Phil Spencer to keynote next week's Gamelab
PS5 architect Mark Cerny will also return to the now-digital event to talk with Ken Levine. All panels will be offered live for free.
Nickolaidas
Banned
yewles1
Member
Phil Spencer!!!Xbox's Phil Spencer to keynote next week's Gamelab
PS5 architect Mark Cerny will also return to the now-digital event to talk with Ken Levine. All panels will be offered live for free.
Gamereactor can confirm as the event's official media partner, Head of Xbox Phil Spencer will keynote Gamelab Live 2020. With a TBD talk, the Xbox chief will share his thoughts with attendees on Wednesday at 5pm BST, with the event to be held digitally across June 23, 24, and 25. As per usual with the prestigious conference, other triple-A speakers will follow, including names such as Cyberpunk's Mike Pondsmith, Double Fine's Tim Schafer, and Uncharted's Amy Hennig, among many others. What's more, the event organisers have just revealed that PS5 architect (and Gamelab advisor) Mark Cerny will also join the party, this time together with none other than BioShock creator Ken Levine.
Breaking: Xbox's Phil Spencer to keynote next week's Gamelab
PS5 architect Mark Cerny will also return to the now-digital event to talk with Ken Levine. All panels will be offered live for free.
Mark Cerny.
jackets with pockets
Banned
Spencer is a suit-in-disguise. Cerny is the man.
jimbojim
Banned
Blog post from one of the RAD Game Tools folks: http://cbloomrants.blogspot.com/2020/06/oodle-texture-slashes-game-sizes.html
Oodle works by preparing the Texture to compress better rearranging the data inside each block in a way that is still compatible with the GPU native decoder and thus does not require much of any unpacking in the shader (although one of the posts by a RAD engineer on Twitter was talking about doing some decompression in the shader, maybe unrelated need to check some more).
What is the BCPack HW decoder then? Assuming there is even a small amount of GPU work in the bolded part of the BCn -> Oodle Texture/equivalent format conversion -> kraken compress -> ... -> kraken decompress -> Oodle Texture or equivalent to BCn conversion pipeline maybe that is what MS put in the HW decoder on top of zlib.
So, MS could be using a proprietary and even more compressed step that does the texture block formatting and compression (SDK tools) and then in HW decompresses it?
On PS5 you would have three possible paths:
The list above would be in order of texture compression efficiency from worst to best.
- BCn Texture compressed through kraken then decompressed by the HW kraken block and loaded by the GPU
- BCn Texture processed through Oodle Texture and compressed through kraken then decompressed by the HW kraken block and loaded by the GPU
- BCn Texture processed through Oodle Texture and/or by a different tooling on top of it (let's call it step XYZ) then decompressed by the HW kraken block, processed by the GPU compute shader you undo step XYZ back into a native format (GPU's support some compressed texture formats natively), and loaded by the GPU
Edit: so yeah tired but I think I was on the mark. See the following blog post and the summary by this RAD Game Tools engineer on Twitter (picture attached): http://cbloomrants.blogspot.com/2020/06/oodle-texture-bc7prep-data-flow.html
I think XVA's BCPack HW decoder is a HW implementation of something like BC7Prep (but MS proprietary, Oodle does not seem involved there) + standard zlib (XSX is not using Kraken).
So, will ask the same question, are we are looking at 15-17 GB/s of compressed data on average?
Oh look, the Holy Bible of gaming
yewles1
Member
With Oodle? More like 13-15GB/s, that may be possible depending on the game too.
DeeDogg_
Banned
They're both suits
Rusco Da Vino
Member
WTF?
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Insane Metal
Member
WTF?
WAT
No freaking way? But that's GPU decode... that's not the same thing right?
pawel86ck
Banned
UE5 tech demo proves 16 GB is enough not only for 8K textures but also insane assets quality thanks to I/O improvement. Developers will be however limited because of storage size.I am disagree for a simple reason a PC always will involve , so each couple of years new products are released with more features and more power.
-NVIDIA will found a way to solve for the "correct" price the problem with SSD in consoles
-Yes many pc gamer will migrate but this will not kill pc gaming
-Ultra mode will be only accessible for super high end pc this first years, but when the consoles have 5/6 years in the market the PC will have
available DDR5, GDDR7/HBMN3, SSD for PCIe 5. Basically the competition between AMD, Intel, NVIDIA will increase the performance drastically in
the next years. In that moment PC master race will be the again insufferable we know that.
-The will return to PC if the medium segment are above the console in a noticeable way like gtx 1060 vs PS4/Xbox one.
Right now I only see two problems in the future for the console the 16GB memory will become a problem in some years especially when you already have a
bandwidth far of be impressive and your RT is good maybe now but in 4 years well.
I love the technology involve so much as the medium of gaming involve and I don't want any stop at least while I am alive but if this year continue in this way
all we are going to die this december.
BluRayHiDef
Banned
That people are still asserting that the PlayStation 5's average level of graphical performance will be 9TF is bad enough. That you are asserting that it's even less than that is worse. Are you saying that the cooling system of the PlayStation 5 and its 7nm APU, whose size affords it higher attainable clocks and lower heat output relative to larger die sizes, aren't enough to enable its GPU to maintain 2GHz? Are you saying that you know more than the electrical engineers who designed the console and its components?
yewles1
Member
WTF?
Many caveats to this, atm. Wait till it's perfected before we start losing our minds over this.
FranXico
Member
Haptics have indeed been around for many years, and the Xbox controller has adaptive triggers, but it does not have haptics. The closest comparison would be the Switch.
geordiemp
Member
Blog post from one of the RAD Game Tools folks: http://cbloomrants.blogspot.com/2020/06/oodle-texture-slashes-game-sizes.html
Oodle works by preparing the Texture to compress better rearranging the data inside each block in a way that is still compatible with the GPU native decoder and thus does not require much of any unpacking in the shader (although one of the posts by a RAD engineer on Twitter was talking about doing some decompression in the shader, maybe unrelated need to check some more).
What is the BCPack HW decoder then? Assuming there is even a small amount of GPU work in the bolded part of the BCn -> Oodle Texture/equivalent format conversion -> kraken compress -> ... -> kraken decompress -> Oodle Texture or equivalent to BCn conversion pipeline maybe that is what MS put in the HW decoder on top of zlib.
So, MS could be using a proprietary and even more compressed step that does the texture block formatting and compression (SDK tools) and then in HW decompresses it?
On PS5 you would have three possible paths:
The list above would be in order of texture compression efficiency from worst to best.
- BCn Texture compressed through kraken then decompressed by the HW kraken block and loaded by the GPU
- BCn Texture processed through Oodle Texture and compressed through kraken then decompressed by the HW kraken block and loaded by the GPU
- BCn Texture processed through Oodle Texture and/or by a different tooling on top of it (let's call it step XYZ) then decompressed by the HW kraken block, processed by the GPU compute shader you undo step XYZ back into a native format (GPU's support some compressed texture formats natively), and loaded by the GPU
Edit: so yeah tired but I think I was on the mark
I think XVA's BCPack HW decoder is a HW implementation of something like BC7Prep (but MS proprietary, Oodle does not seem involved there) + standard zlib (XSX is not using Kraken).
Some nice reading. See who can make the link to Bc7..
Understanding BCn Texture Compression Formats – Nathan Reed’s coding blog
Pixels and polygons and shaders, oh my!
www.reedbeta.com
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Yup, I know but that's what I've seen people say and I wanted to add it to the FUD list. And I think Xbox has rumble triggers which are different from adaptive triggers but I've also seen people spreading the word that rumble triggers ARE adaptive triggers which obviously are 2 different things.
thurnishaleygw
Member
FranXico
Member
I was always under the impression that those already were adaptive triggers, didn't know that. Not that it would make such a big difference IMHO.
FranXico
Member
Disguise? The predictable gamer T-shirt with a blazer on top? Oh no, sir. Phil is one of us!
/s
jimbojim
Banned
X1/XSX still has basic rumble motors (i'm sure you saw how it works in Forza 5) in the whole gamepad compared to new voice-coil actuators, more advanced haptic feedback in DS5, which can imitate different surfaces and moves like NSW HD Rumble & combine that with ADAPTIVE triggers. "Impulse triggers" in X1/XSX gamepad have a rumble motors in them. Pretty basic. Adaptive triggers can imitate different sensations of resistance in games like drawing a bow string or a loose gun trigger with an empty clip. That DS5 will have.
Haptic feedback is pretty basic in X1/XSX gamepad and it's really behind than those in Switch Joy Con. Btw. X1/XSX gamepad doesn't have adaptive triggers.
In X1 gamepad all is they do is rotate the mass and vibrate creating the buzzing sound and sensation ( like in Forza 5 ) we feel from the game pad. They do not provide any resistance to the pull of a trigger which is what the adaptive triggers do. Xbox One erms. 2 Big and 2 mini
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B_Boss
Member
The guy holding the PS4 is the one who did the awesome launch PS4 teardown video, Ootori-dono.
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FeiRR
Banned
I think he means you can go this high but it takes the whole GPU power. They're benchmarking so it makes sense. Imagine you make the screen flash for a second (for example your character teleports) and in that second you fill up the whole memory with new assets. First parties will find ways, they always do.
shaddam
Member
Somehow people always forget that there is cross buy on sony platforms way before even the ps4 was announced
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
No, Mart Cerny is a former game dev.
Phil Spencer used to be a TV host for a property development show in the UK.
They've both got some wild personalities going by this career history.
Handy Fake
Member
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Neo Blaster
Member
I'm talking about the guy who did that to a PS4 in 2013, he was wearing gloves in the video.
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