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[Gamerguy84]

John and NXGAMER could work well together. Rich and Alex definitely think alike.

I couldn't get through the video watching Alex being an xbox apologist.

 

[Entroyp]

The drive by shit posting is getting out of hand. I understand there are legit Halo fans disappointed with the footage, but most of this concern trolling is coming from the typical sony fans who were never going to buy an Xbox in the first place and should be called out.

People with common sense realize that some of these sony fans come in every Xbox related thread with one goal in mind....shit on Xbox.

Yea like Xbox fans haven't been shitting on PS threads all the time? C'mon.

 

[eastwood333]

Kind of what happens when xbox fans have been drive-by posting how Halo would destroy anything on PS5 for months.

Exhibit A right here. There isn't a single Xbox thread were this guy isn't shitting on Xbox one way or another.

 

[T-Cake]

"Resolution is completely overrated"

Sounds hilarious coming from DF.

Their whole MO has been about resolution and frame rate comparison this entire generation. Now they say it doesn't matter anymore. So why waste time even bothering with that part of the analysis next-gen, just put up the pretty frame time graphs and leave it at that.

 

[DarthFeanor]

This is the best part:


"Resolution is completely overrated"

Sounds hilarious coming from DF.

Well, there is no free lunch.

After 2 years of games using RTX its clear 4k 60fps in a open dinâmica world would require a GPU north of U$1000.

 

[yurqqa]

Digital Foundry really have a great team !!!

I really hope more people will finally grow the brains and appreciate them more.

Their whole MO has been about resolution and frame rate comparison this entire generation. Now they say it doesn't matter anymore.

You understand that there is a phrase explaining why is that so (DLSS) exactly after that ?

 

[Psykodad]

Exhibit A right here. There isn't a single Xbox thread were this guy isn't shitting on Xbox one way or another.

There are a lot of xbox threads I don't enter.

 

[eastwood333]

Yea like Xbox fans haven't been shitting on PS threads all the time? C'mon.

Not like this, no.

 

[Dory16]

I have to give 343 props for native 4k60 at launch in an open world FPS. That just doesn't exist anymore.
Now iron out all those ugly things and add ray tracing BEFORE launch. Thanks.

PS: We all know that the Sony drive by army has a license to troll and derail from the mods and we'll be better served by just ignoring them and staying on topic.
Kudos to Digital Foundry for letting science and the facts speak. It's too easy for some drones out here to act as if the demo was comparable to some 360 games, yet they were cheering on 1440p and unstable 30 fps in first party PS5 games. It's not like we don't know who we're dealing with.

 

[DarthFeanor]

Meanwhile, the skills of a single random dude brings us:

Can that random dude make it works at 4k 60fps in an RTX2070?

 

[Mister Wolf]

So it needs a better lighting engine. They better be doing triangle raytraced global illumination with that raytracing patch.

 

[bishopcruz]

I think blaming only the lighting or being cross-gen for the disappointing look of the demo is very euphemistic, but I expected as much from Alex. Besides being 4k60, the demo had nothing going for it technically: It has simple low resolution shadow maps, horrendous texture/LOD pop in, low resolution environment and vegetation details, no soft particles, no raytraced reflection, low resolution looking textures/texture effects, very low number of dynamic lights and you could go on and on.

From a technical point of view I find the demo simply disappointing in its entirety for a game coming to a next generation system. I find it especially disappointing since this is a high budget game and is supposed to be Microsoft's poster child for the most powerful console ever.

There are more problems then only the "lighting". Texture details didn't look hot compared to the previous demo. Only the section in the beginning of the cargo bay (indoor) looked great.

The rest is a bit of an excuse for me to say that RT should/will fix this? Why do we need RT for that?

TL;DW: it looks bad because playing in shaded area of the map. Ray tracing something something.

Alex? Really?? DF are really discrediting themselves with this guy.

Are we suppose to believe the devs chose the worst possible conditions to display their game to everyone?

MS figured out that since people can't make their own minds it's cheaper to pay DF than to actually invest in making good looking games.

You clearly don't know the guy, it's so obvious what he is doing.

Getting cozy with MS and then treating them with kids glove... it's easy to guess what happened.

This video sounds like it's trying to apologize for how that Halo video looked, it's really odd.

Where they fall flat is releasing a game that looks like this on a 12TF machine. This same dude was shitting on Sony for releasing games that are 30fps on current gen, now he is all willing to understand the reasons why it looks bad and coming up with excuses.

It's DF we are talking about, they use a x8 zoom to complain about tiny details in resolution, etc. I don't need to zoom in to see this game looks inexcusably bad, this is MS's flagship game to show what the XBox SX is about.

Oh fuck right off, Alex.

He said that the Gran Turismo 7 ray tracing looked subpar .... When viewed magnified 800%, yet "we think" Halo looks bad cause of lightning?? And this is getting fixed with the promised after launch (not ready for showtime, btw) ray tracing patch?

I always found him to be a little biassed towards Xbox, but in a good way, it was a good thing cause the Xbox one x is currently the most powerful machine, but this is just on another level.

DF doesn't have to excuse 343's work.

As expected, alex didn't do a deep comparison to the halo 2018 in-engine trailer. Didn't do comparison to previous halos.

To me DF is just like geoff keighley, I can see why they shouldn't tea bag a disaster from big companies like sony, nintindo and ms but alex shouldn't be giving excuses like that. He is implying that lighting is the main issue and if it is fixed most of it will be fine. He really don't have to do that. If he is not giving a fully detailed fair analysis than just staying silent is better for their image.

Alex needs to learn from the other 2 friends he have there with him. Just stay silent if you can't be fully honest.

Ok, so lighting is the savior for Halo Infinite and it will fix the pop-up/pop-in, mediocre foliage, minimal visual effects, barren world and mediocre character models?

Lighting isnt going to fix your problems if your models look like shit LOL

Wow, a lotta people clearly didn't watch the whole video. Shouldn't be surprised as something that even seems to be pro MS (even when the back end of the video is talking about all the other problems with the demo and why things look bad that AREN'T due to lighting.) triggers the fuck out of fanboys.

And DF riding MS's dick? Really, did you not see them ROAST the hell out of the PC ports of MCC over the last year?

 

[DarthFeanor]

Their whole MO has been about resolution and frame rate comparison this entire generation. Now they say it doesn't matter anymore. So why waste time even bothering with that part of the analysis next-gen, just put up the pretty frame time graphs and leave it at that.

He has shift in the last few years after RTX problems scaling above 1440p.
Their videos about DLSS are evidence of that change.

 

[Andodalf]

So it needs a better lighting engine. They better be doing triangle raytraced global illumination with that raytracing patch.

If anyone expects that they're going to be disappointed. They've said before that they'll have RT reflections, and that's all I expect

 

[Mister Wolf]

If anyone expects that they're going to be disappointed. They've said before that they'll have RT reflections, and that's all I expect

Got a link?

Halo Infinite will get a free ray tracing update after launch

Explore a Halo ring with ultra-realistic lighting!

www.windowscentral.com

I have this.

 

[Jtibh]

Over dramatic.

Cross gen title not utilizing next gen tech. There is your summary.

But they said crossgen wont hold xsx back.......

 

[Rikkori]

Can that random dude make it works at 4k 60fps in an RTX2070?

Not quite, but almost. There's a lot of tweaking you can do for the SSGI not unlike what consoles have shown eg reducing the ray tacing resolution etc.

 

[Knitted Knight]

I knew the second Alex said that he was going to do the Halo 5 breakdown that it was going to be a damage control piece. Like, it wasn't going to be John... no way in hell. Not surprised one bit with the result. And people still question this... boggles the mind. Dude is completely vested... what a joke.

 

[Jtibh]

This video screams like "excuses, excuses."

IMO of course.

It also completely kills the narrative of "last gen tech not holding back development of games for new tech."

I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks the same.

The dictator has spoken. You bow you peasant

 

[Thirty7ven]

I'm not surprised it's 20 min of Alex making up excuses for the game.

 

[Tiamat2san]

John and NXGAMER could work well together. Rich and Alex definitely think alike.

I couldn't get through the video watching Alex being an xbox apologist.

NX gamer seems not really impartial to me.

Honestly I think it is really hard to be.

 

[Senua]

I have a feeling resolution will matter a lot whenever they're not talking about Xbox.

I'm not surprised it's 20 min of Alex making up excuses for the game.

Or explaining why it looks mediocre?

 

[Riven326]

They switched to some shots of Halo 3 at the end. A game from 2007 that was criticized then for its graphics. It looks better than Infinite in terms of lighting and artistic direction.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Not quite, but almost. There's a lot of tweaking you can do for the SSGI not unlike what consoles have shown eg reducing the ray tacing resolution etc.

I would rather they went a step further and used Voxel based GI like we see in that UE5 Demo. If that new Switch version of Crysis has SVOGI(Voxel GI) then Halo sure as shit could have it.

 

[Freeman]

Exhibit A right here. There isn't a single Xbox thread were this guy isn't shitting on Xbox one way or another.

Maybe he doesn't like Xbox, a lot of people are like that.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

Wow, a lotta people clearly didn't watch the whole video. Shouldn't be surprised as something that even seems to be pro MS (even when the back end of the video is talking about all the other problems with the demo and why things look bad that AREN'T due to lighting.) triggers the fuck out of fanboys.

And DF riding MS's dick? Really, did you not see them ROAST the hell out of the PC ports of MCC over the last year?

I believe the issue is that he seemed to be defending it first then criticized it later . He even mentioned that thousands of games have had this lighting issue but have you ever seen a video from DF highlighting this in this way on any of those thousands of games?

If he had done a normal game analysis first and then talked about what could be done it would have come across different.

 

[thismeinteil]

Excuses, excuses. Where's the Sony defense vids? I don't seem to remember them. But, the second MS fucks up, DF to save the day. If I remember correctly, they were trying to dismiss the PS4's power advantage this gen, too.

John's the only one with integrity. Especially giving those truth bombs that an open world (apparently Halo isn't true open world, though) XSX game should look like PS4's best games this gen, but in 4K/60FPS. It's 1.8Tflops vs 12, with a much better CPU, for goodness sakes. Lighting and it having to run 60FPS are no excuse.

Sry, but lighting isn't going to fix bad character models with poor texture work. Or mostly empty world's with little life to the environment.

 

[Fake]

Some real hypocritical talking going on in this video.

 

[Rikkori]

I would rather they went a step further and used Voxel based GI like we see in that UE5 Demo.

For the reshade? That would be impossible. If you mean for Halo - absolutely. They can't afford raytacing but SVOGI would work wonders.

 

[Andodalf]

Got a link?

Halo Infinite will get a free ray tracing update after launch

Explore a Halo ring with ultra-realistic lighting!

www.windowscentral.com

I have this.

That just says RT. Could be anything. I'm looking for the link, but Bernkastel posted a clip of a live stream a while ago where a Tech Director answered a question about RT by saying that Halo infinite would have RT reflections, so you could dynamically see enemies walk by in puddles

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

I have a feeling resolution will matter a lot whenever they're not talking about Xbox.

It was only briefly mentioned ONCE in their reactions video, that every single thing ms showed was at a native 3840×2160.
If it was like you suggest, they would have mentioned it dozens of times...

 

[eastwood333]

I'm not surprised it's 20 min of Alex making up excuses for the game.

Another beauty right here you'll see trolling in every Xbox related thread.

 

[MDSLKTR]

The drive by shit posting is getting out of hand. I understand there are legit Halo fans disappointed with the footage, but most of this concern trolling is coming from the typical sony fans who were never going to buy an Xbox in the first place and should be called out.

People with common sense realize that some of these sony fans come in every Xbox related thread with one goal in mind....shit on Xbox.

You do realize there's a good sample of people being concerned because they have gp memberships ready or want to get the game on steam right?

 

[Mister Wolf]

For the reshade? That would be impossible. If you mean for Halo - absolutely. They can't afford raytacing but SVOGI would work wonders.

Since that new Switch Crysis has SVOGI then its sad almost pathetic Halo doesn't. That's the kind of stuff you can turn ON/OFF and make an immediate impact like Hunt Showdown on consoles doesn't have Voxel GI but the PC version of it does and looks way better.

 

[II_JumPeR_I]

IMO was a really bad video...

It wasnt just the lighting and RT wont fix that.

We have games like RDR2 on an OneX at 4k30 that could get updated to 60fps on an SeriesX with even more improvements and it would still shit all over Infinite with RT.

Then why didnt he compare the old two trailers with this new footage?

2018 showed an amazing big looking world with dense foliage etc...
2019 showed detailed looking characters with great subsurface scattering which looks to be completly missing in the 2020 version?

Why is this supposed to be NextGen ready Slipspace engine using outdated tech and cardboard clouds etc?? Hell 343 nor Microsoft mentioned the Engine that much the last couple of days lol

Meanwhile Crytek has SVOGI on Switch and will have Software Raytracing ready for XboxOne and PS4....

Maybe 343 needs more competent Engineers

 

[-Arcadia-]

I like how we had to safespace 9.2 Teraflops for being inaccurate (true) and disruptive, because warriors sobbed so hard, instead of sucking it up and dealing with it, like the rest of us.

Yet those same people shit up every single DF thread with their baseless conspiracy theories, and derail all discussion with their nonsense, thread after thread.

The constant hypocrisy is hilarious.

 

[Mister Wolf]

That just says RT. Could be anything. I'm looking for the link, but Bernkastel posted a clip of a live stream a while ago where a Tech Director answered a question about RT by saying that Halo infinite would have RT reflections, so you could dynamically see enemies walk by in puddles

That would be such a fucking waste I really hope you're wrong. Dumber than Watch Dog Legions or Battlefield using it for reflections.

 

[eastwood333]

You do realize there's a good sample of people being concerned because they have gp memberships ready or want to get the game on steam right?

You got to read my other post, bro. There is a reason why i said "I understand there are legit Halo fans disappointed with the footage"

 

[Andodalf]

That would be such a fucking waste I really hope you're wrong. Dumber than Watch Dog Legions or Battlefield using it for reflections.

Video is unlisted


"RT in the newer game is gunna come out, is just gunna make reflection really good"

 

[Saaleh]

Wow, a lotta people clearly didn't watch the whole video. Shouldn't be surprised as something that even seems to be pro MS (even when the back end of the video is talking about all the other problems with the demo and why things look bad that AREN'T due to lighting.) triggers the fuck out of fanboys.

And DF riding MS's dick? Really, did you not see them ROAST the hell out of the PC ports of MCC over the last year?

Clearly you don't see the full context of what happened.

Phil Spincer pretended that [halo/seriesX/announcing names of their new games/cgiTrailers of very early developed games] will destroy Sony's conference. Phil Spincer is the one who set these high expectations for halo. So obviously when we see that a next gen halo [with 12 TF, with 7 years development cycle, with the highest budget ever] eventually looks worst than previous halos, clearly the issue is not with lighting design, alex's analysis was all about lighting as if that was what really matter. Every aspect of the game was downgraded from the in-engine trailer so even with ray tracing fixed, it still won't look like that in-engine trailer, it still won't meet the hype that phil was raising, let alone will destroy sony's conference

The issue is not gamepass or the downgraded quality of gamepass games.The issue is with the over hype, misleading, vague messaging and pretending that xbox is still competing AND destroying ps5. If their marketing of gamepass was honest only few would have issue with this downgraded quality of xbox games. More would of admired xbox's approach if phil didn't tea bagged Sony's approach of exclusives and stayed humble.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Video is unlisted


"RT in the newer game is gunna come out, is just gunna make reflection really good"

Thank you. Im baffled by the poor decision making. Metro, Control, Dying Light 2, and Cyberpunk are all open world/sandbox games and all are smart enough to know using it for GI is a smart move.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

So it needs a better lighting engine. They better be doing triangle raytraced global illumination with that raytracing patch.

This

This is also one of the better RTX settings in Control

 

[Zoro7]

Ok that's all well and good. So why does the game look below par in direct sunlight aswell?

 

[Andodalf]

Thank you. Im baffled by the poor decision making. Metro, Control, Dying Light 2, and Cyberpunk are all open world/sandbox games and all are smart enough to know using it for GI is a smart move.

It's also typically a really heavy setting. We still have no idea how much RT grunt the new consoles or even AMDs desktop parts have

 

[TTOOLL]

Video sounded like he was trying really hard to find excuses rather than explaining. He did point out a lot of flaws though.

I don't know, maybe I'm being biased against Alex.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Ok that's all well and good. So why does the game look below par in direct sunlight aswell?

Bargain bin global lighting system and low effort textures. I'm wondering why making this Slipspace Engine was worth it. Maybe they should have just used Unreal 4 or CryEngine 5.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Excuses, excuses. Where's the Sony defense vids? I don't seem to remember them. But, the second MS fucks up, DF to save the day. If I remember correctly, they were trying to dismiss the PS4's power advantage this gen, too.

John's the only one with integrity. Especially giving those truth bombs that an open world (apparently Halo isn't true open world, though) XSX game should look like PS4's best games this gen, but in 4K/60FPS. It's 1.8Tflops vs 12, with a much better CPU, for goodness sakes. Lighting and it having to run 60FPS are no excuse.

Sry, but lighting isn't going to fix bad character models with poor texture work. Or mostly empty world's with little life to the environment.

John got exposed by KingThrash when he made a fluff piece on Gears 5 (cause MS/Xbox sorely needed that W). What ensued was hard to watch. Tried to fit in with his buddies too much and made a stupid mistake his "smarter" companions do not do... they're more subtle. Since then John has kept it a buck cause he knows he has eyes on him. Which makes Alex the easier stand out. They've all been capping for MS/Xbox for a long time.

 

[Max_Po]

If it only looked like this on the right

dat purple sheeet... something change his diaper while he is down...

 

[nyr88nyg]

I like how he shows halo reach gameplay from 2010 and it looks the same as halo infinite

 

[itsjustJEFF]

"Resolution is completely overrated"
Sounds hilarious coming from DF.

My biggest take away from that segment is when he says he'd rather have lower res with better effects. Yes, I would also take that. But these console makers have painted themselves into a 4K corner. Not only that, but the fanboys have painted themselves into a 4K corner. I am convinced that a lot of fanboys would take 4K with lower "visuals" just because it's "4K" It's the hill they decided to die on. The next hill will be Ray Tracing no matter what! Already the UE5 solution for "RT" is looked down on "oh that's not RT, give me real RT" If they didn't say anything at all you would have not known the difference. I looked at the lighting in the UE5 demo and said "wow, that looks really good" Never once during that presentation or even after it did I think "was that RT?"