Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Bo_Hazem said:
Yeah they've been busy in the 100GB instant thread and trying to stir shit now.
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Never understood the point of that thread tbh. The instant 100GB thing from MS didn't make any sense back then and still doesn't make any sense to me at all cause it just sounded like marketing fluff, and yet I see a thread with like 58 pages dedicated to it lol.

And the first post after OP's post I saw on that thread:


NloXKCL.jpg


Never knew Velocity was a hardware unit on the chip.
 
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Killer Sakoman said:
Yeah, but I cannot put a gun on each developer's head and ask him to run the game smooth on my base console. I also don't wanna pay $1500+ on new PC gpu in order to play 3rd party games at smooth fps.

The base consoles are ugly and PS5 won't hold very well in 2023 when 3rd parties push the tech with Sub 1440p and poor texture filtering and sub 30 fps.
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What changes in 2023 for 3rd parties?
 
Killer Sakoman said:
No, a pro is needed as games will be demanding and run like shit on base consoles. I cannot imagine playing on base PS4 now. Most of the games play at a cinematice 24 fps. PS4 pro on the other hand maintains locked 30 fps and much higher resolution.

We also need a reason to buy 8k tvs 😂
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Another reason is that both, Sony and Microsoft will expect the other side to release a midgen device and do not want to be that much behind in performance for several years. It doesn't matter if there is a real need for the new devices :messenger_winking:
In the end a midgen device gives both manufactureres the possibility of offering much more performance for the same price. Additional they can offer the same performance as now for a cheaper price.
 
MasterCornholio said:
For the longest time I was confused on how two GPUs with the same TF number can perform differently. Alot of it boils down to how efficient they are. Obviously neither will reach their TF count but the more efficient one can get closer to it.
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There is a difference in performance if you're not just paying attention to the TFLOPs and VALU performance, higher GPU frequency = higher rasterization performance, more L0/L1 cache bandwidth, faster command buffer processing, etc.


RAuMhu2.jpg
 
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THE:MILKMAN said:
I mean this right here is why we don't have prices yet! Sony and Microsoft are reading the forums and social media and seeing so many wanting to pay $6,7,800 and don't know what the hell to do....

Here's how sweet that $800 console smells!

PC8KwPo.gif
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Those were obviously random amounts. But whatever you want to think man. Have a good evening.
 
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3liteDragon said:
Never understood the point of that thread tbh. The instant 100GB thing from MS didn't make any sense back then and still doesn't make any sense to me at all cause it just sounded like marketing fluff, and yet I see a thread with like 58 pages dedicated to it lol.

And the first post after OP's post I saw on that thread:


NloXKCL.jpg
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Even with all the I/O tricks and hit chips it still doesn't make any sense to me. 100GB if data available instantly is just not possible even with the PS5s faster I/O.
 
3liteDragon said:
Never understood the point of that thread tbh. The instant 100GB thing from MS didn't make any sense back then and still doesn't make any sense to me at all cause it just sounded like marketing fluff, and yet I see a thread with like 58 pages dedicated to it lol.

And the first post after OP's post I saw on that thread:


NloXKCL.jpg
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Imagine after all that shit show of mental gymnastics Microsoft chimes in in the latest hot potato chips and says the SSD is only using 2x PCIe 4.0. :lollipop_tears_of_joy: The lowest SSD NVMe m.2 on PC still uses 4x.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Imagine after all that shit show of mental gymnastics Microsoft chimes in in the latest hot potato chips and says the SSD is only using 2x PCIe 4.0. :lollipop_tears_of_joy: The lowest SSD NVMe m.2 on PC still uses 4x.
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Do we know how many channels the flash controller has to NAND flash? I find it hilarious that after all the trash talk VA only uses 2 PCIe lanes per storage device (internal and memory card).
 
JTCx said:
MS signature buzzword marketing.

Like "smart delivery" :lollipop_anxious_sweat:
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lmao, it wasn't the fact that MS slapped a name on the server's ability to know which system just connected and give it the correct patch, but instead it was the people who got excited about it that cracked me up
 
Imtjnotu said:
Wtf is going on. I woke up from a nap and stepped into a shit storm.

Was there some news I missed?
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No, nothing new, and thats probably one of the problems.

Some of us here just had nothing more to do than starting yet another "you start FUD", "NO, you start FUD", "No, you start FUD" discussion...

Before I forget it, there were some harsh words in an interview... See here:
 
HeisenbergFX4 said:
WUCfmDf.png


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Still LOL

Dan_of_Rivia said:
Some really interesting comments from both Paul (RGT) and Matt on what can increase the performance of the Nintendo Switch.

Paul states that increasing the memory bandwidth of the system is a good option and would help give the Switch "mileage".

Matt then goes on to state something interesting "a wrinkle I would throw in there is cache, by clocking the Switch's (CPU) higher, then the on chip chaches are clocked higher and then more responsive so depending on what the latency of those caches are and the size of them, that from a bill of materials cost could be cheaper then faster RAM which generates more heat and pulls more power then a cache does".

More interesting is that a few weeks ago, Paul RGT mentioned that the PS5 was not having memory bandwidth issues because it has a robust caching system. He also mentioned that the PS5's CPU had unified CCX clusters (Zen 3 feature) which allowed for low latency access of the caches.
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Ding ding ding "Raising tide lifts all boats"

BlueXImpulse said:
Yes. This is why ray tracing is known to be heavy on memory (RAM). You can't simply cull relevant polygons/triangles because they are required to accurately compute a ray tracing calculation.
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Hmm wouldn't it be great if PS5 had a maTh processor Engine that could use GPU caches for its scratch pad for RT..... wait
 
Grinchy said:
lmao, it wasn't the fact that MS slapped a name on the server's ability to know which system just connected and give it the correct patch, but instead it was the people who got excited about it that cracked me up
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"So smart delivery is just cross buy."

"No its not the same! The system's skynet algorithm detects which version it is, then smartly delivers the best version!"

lmao :messenger_weary:
 
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Entroyp said:
Do we know how many channels the flash controller has to NAND flash? I find it hilarious that after all the trash talk VA only uses 2 PCIe lanes per storage device (internal and memory card).
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No, but it is most likely 4 channels between Flash controller and NAND chips, because the raw bandwith is rather low (2.4GB/s) compared to the 3.5GB/s used on the faster SSDs today.
The 2 channels mentioned above are between the flash controller and the PCIe controller in the SoC. Because of "only" 2.4GB/s and PCIe4 (doubles the bandwith per channel compared to PCIe3) using 2 channels is "fast enough"
 
MasterCornholio said:
Even with all the I/O tricks and hit chips it still doesn't make any sense to me. 100GB if data available instantly is just not possible even with the PS5s faster I/O.
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I remember Moore's Law talking about how PS5's SSD is technically like really fast RAM because streaming in like 2GB of data within 0.27 seconds EVERY FRAME is literally instantaneous. So if you look at it that way, the console "technically" does have 700-800GB of RAM "instantly" available, this stuff is revolutionary for overall game design but people won't get it just yet cause "SsDs DoN't iMpRoVe GrApHiCs, 12 FLOPs PoWeR WiLL rEnDeR aT HiGhEr FiDeLiTy".

We gotta wait until devs master the hardware and it'll definitely show in the games, he does also talk about how he thinks MS must've gotten wind of this and that's why they started going with the "instant 100GB, virtual memory" narrative before Sony started talking about it.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Again, go quote my posts months ago and apologize after you see you are bullshitting and lying.
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GODDAMMIT, people. QUIT using the word "FUD" when you don't even FUCKING KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Here's a quick tip. Saying "I don't think that Microsoft can make money and be sustained because they don't charge enough and developers won't make enough" is NOT FUD. Saying something like "I've heard that developers are saying the I/O bandwidth of the XSX is the reason Halo Infinite looked sub par. The system simply can't handle the data it needs to." and saying it without technical specs and architecture being known, THAT could be FUD. The constant "PS5 is really only 9TF" is a great example fo FUD as is the argument that EITHER console is not "full RDNA 2."

So THAT is FUD. Disagreeing on technical specs or even speculating about things without the data being known is NOT FUD.

Damn. Just people way overusing that term, just like many other words being thrown around in society today. Everyone quit being so damned sensitive about shit too! These are plastic toys that we use to PLAY GAMES! They have nothing to do with your own self worth, or certainly SHOULDN'T have anything to do with it. If someone insults your favorite toy you can disagree or argue but FFS quit reacting like someone just slapped your mom on the ass!
 
3liteDragon said:
I remember Moore's Law talking about how PS5's SSD is technically like really fast RAM because streaming in like 2GB of data within 0.27 seconds EVERY FRAME is literally instantaneous. So if you look at it that way, the console "technically" does have 700-800GB of RAM "instantly" available, this stuff is revolutionary for overall game design but people won't get it just yet cause "SsDs DoN't iMpRoVe GrApHiCs, 12 FLOPs PoWeR WiLL rEnDeR aT HiGhEr FiDeLiTy".

We gotta wait until devs master the hardware and it'll definitely show in the games, he does also talk about how he thinks MS must've gotten wind of this and that's why they started going with the "instant 100GB, virtual memory" narrative before Sony started talking about it.
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If you want my opinion I think Microsoft knows they have the inferior I/O system just like Sony knows they have less CUs in the GPU. With that said alot of Microsofts talk about the velocity architecture seems pretty defensive to me. Like when they use multipliers to approach Sonys system for example.
 
Sinthor said:
GODDAMMIT, people. QUIT using the word "FUD" when you don't even FUCKING KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Here's a quick tip. Saying "I don't think that Microsoft can make money and be sustained because they don't charge enough and developers won't make enough" is NOT FUD. Saying something like "I've heard that developers are saying the I/O bandwidth of the XSX is the reason Halo Infinite looked sub par. The system simply can't handle the data it needs to." and saying it without technical specs and architecture being known, THAT could be FUD. The constant "PS5 is really only 9TF" is a great example fo FUD as is the argument that EITHER console is not "full RDNA 2."

So THAT is FUD. Disagreeing on technical specs or even speculating about things without the data being known is NOT FUD.

Damn. Just people way overusing that term, just like many other words being thrown around in society today. Everyone quit being so damned sensitive about shit too! These are plastic toys that we use to PLAY GAMES! They have nothing to do with your own self worth, or certainly SHOULDN'T have anything to do with it. If someone insults your favorite toy you can disagree or argue but FFS quit reacting like someone just slapped your mom on the ass!
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What the FUD
 
Sinthor said:
GODDAMMIT, people. QUIT using the word "FUD" when you don't even FUCKING KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Here's a quick tip. Saying "I don't think that Microsoft can make money and be sustained because they don't charge enough and developers won't make enough" is NOT FUD. Saying something like "I've heard that developers are saying the I/O bandwidth of the XSX is the reason Halo Infinite looked sub par. The system simply can't handle the data it needs to." and saying it without technical specs and architecture being known, THAT could be FUD. The constant "PS5 is really only 9TF" is a great example fo FUD as is the argument that EITHER console is not "full RDNA 2."

So THAT is FUD. Disagreeing on technical specs or even speculating about things without the data being known is NOT FUD.

Damn. Just people way overusing that term, just like many other words being thrown around in society today. Everyone quit being so damned sensitive about shit too! These are plastic toys that we use to PLAY GAMES! They have nothing to do with your own self worth, or certainly SHOULDN'T have anything to do with it. If someone insults your favorite toy you can disagree or argue but FFS quit reacting like someone just slapped your mom on the ass!
Click to expand...

Wow your comment is FUD.

:messenger_squinting_tongue:
 
3liteDragon said:
I remember Moore's Law talking about how PS5's SSD is technically like really fast RAM because streaming in like 2GB of data within 0.27 seconds EVERY FRAME is literally instantaneous. So if you look at it that way, the console "technically" does have 700-800GB of RAM "instantly" available, this stuff is revolutionary for overall game design but people won't get it just yet cause "SsDs DoN't iMpRoVe GrApHiCs, 12 FLOPs PoWeR WiLL rEnDeR aT HiGhEr FiDeLiTy".

We gotta wait until devs master the hardware and it'll definitely show in the games, he does also talk about how he thinks MS must've gotten wind of this and that's why they started going with the "instant 100GB, virtual memory" narrative before Sony started talking about it.
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I think that '100 GB' represents the typical game size using the same logic since no normal game would be 700 or 800 GB. They are essentially saying that 'all game data' will be available 'instantly'. Which is not very true obviously.
 
Sinthor said:
GODDAMMIT, people. QUIT using the word "FUD" when you don't even FUCKING KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Here's a quick tip. Saying "I don't think that Microsoft can make money and be sustained because they don't charge enough and developers won't make enough" is NOT FUD. Saying something like "I've heard that developers are saying the I/O bandwidth of the XSX is the reason Halo Infinite looked sub par. The system simply can't handle the data it needs to." and saying it without technical specs and architecture being known, THAT could be FUD. The constant "PS5 is really only 9TF" is a great example fo FUD as is the argument that EITHER console is not "full RDNA 2."

So THAT is FUD. Disagreeing on technical specs or even speculating about things without the data being known is NOT FUD.

Damn. Just people way overusing that term, just like many other words being thrown around in society today. Everyone quit being so damned sensitive about shit too! These are plastic toys that we use to PLAY GAMES! They have nothing to do with your own self worth, or certainly SHOULDN'T have anything to do with it. If someone insults your favorite toy you can disagree or argue but FFS quit reacting like someone just slapped your mom on the ass!
Click to expand...
Hey FUD you mate, people walking here!
 
3liteDragon said:
Never understood the point of that thread tbh. The instant 100GB thing from MS didn't make any sense back then and still doesn't make any sense to me at all cause it just sounded like marketing fluff, and yet I see a thread with like 58 pages dedicated to it lol.

And the first post after OP's post I saw on that thread:


NloXKCL.jpg


Never knew Velocity was a hardware unit on the chip.
Click to expand...
100GB is probably the size of the game.
SSD has no seek time so all the data from the game is instantly available to developers but you know the data still needs to travel to the RAM and it is limited by 2.4GB/s.

On mechanical HDD you need to seek the data and make it available to be fetched from the disc.

Think like a menu in a restaurant... on the SSD the menu is already on your table, you just need to ask and the guy will get the food for you at his own speed.
On HDD the menu doesn't exists so the guy needs to go on kitchen to check if they have what you want and back to tell you... so after you ask the guy go get the food for you at it own speed (way slower than the SSD guy).
 
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THE:MILKMAN said:
I doubt they will delay launch at this point. For Microsoft it seems to be their way to come in late on the HW/SW side with the SDK.

I think with the 360 it was late summer 2005 before devs got the actual HW dev kits? With Xbox One it was better at around February 2013 for the beta real HW but the software side was really late? I think if anything is late with Series X/S it will be the software side again. Phil has even said he took delivery of a full retail boxed XSX so they seem very ready on the HW end?
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Seriously find it hard to believe anything that comes out Phil's mouth, and especially this!
 
Entroyp said:
Do we know how many channels the flash controller has to NAND flash? I find it hilarious that after all the trash talk VA only uses 2 PCIe lanes per storage device (internal and memory card).
Click to expand...

Only the leaked Phison E19 flash controller that has 4-channel, nothing official. They seem too embarrassed of their SSD and they are avoiding comparisons as much as possible.
 
Sinthor said:
GODDAMMIT, people. QUIT using the word "FUD" when you don't even FUCKING KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Here's a quick tip. Saying "I don't think that Microsoft can make money and be sustained because they don't charge enough and developers won't make enough" is NOT FUD. Saying something like "I've heard that developers are saying the I/O bandwidth of the XSX is the reason Halo Infinite looked sub par. The system simply can't handle the data it needs to." and saying it without technical specs and architecture being known, THAT could be FUD. The constant "PS5 is really only 9TF" is a great example fo FUD as is the argument that EITHER console is not "full RDNA 2."

So THAT is FUD. Disagreeing on technical specs or even speculating about things without the data being known is NOT FUD.

Damn. Just people way overusing that term, just like many other words being thrown around in society today. Everyone quit being so damned sensitive about shit too! These are plastic toys that we use to PLAY GAMES! They have nothing to do with your own self worth, or certainly SHOULDN'T have anything to do with it. If someone insults your favorite toy you can disagree or argue but FFS quit reacting like someone just slapped your mom on the ass!
Click to expand...

Nah, it's just that the FUD list I've posted put the XboxEra Discord FUD group in panic mode, so they said "you make fud too!".

InstructiveInsidiousIncatern-size_restricted.gif
 
thelastword said:
You realize anything you say against XBOX is because you hate XBOX or MS.....You are just a blathering fanboy.


You speak against Phil's PR for seven years without delivery

You speak about MAU taking over sales numbers because sales are not a high point for MS, people get upset

You speak of the fact that having developers still cater to old gen hardware will deteriorate ambition for next gen games, when next gen hardware should cater to next gen games, people said you're just hating XBOX because they will have more games ready across many devices, 4000 games through BC, it's the pro-consumer way.

You speak about the strengths of PS5 and go into detail about the custom architecture, people become upset because there's no enthusiasm in their circles to do the same. So they settle with, why don't you praise XBOX too? Yet you are the XBOX fan, go dissect all the custom architecture you think exists there instead of harassing people who are excited for PS5.


---------------
Let's be honest, some of these guys genuinely thought PS guys would get upset because MS has 2TF more. Instead, PS guys looked at what Cerny said and dissected it and were sold on his vision for a complete console with a revolution in every aspect of the engineered product. People appreciate that much more effort and thought went into the PS5 console........


There is no need to go into FUD like; XBOX is a 10 TF console OC'd, or XBOX devs are struggling with development, or XBOX dev kits are loud and overheating, or that Pong can't run at 120fps on XBOX. No PS fan is immature enough to fabricate such nonsense. Even in instances when we knew that certain decisions XBOX was taking would bite them in the ass, we just stated it and what do you know....Times when people overhyped events and games which felt flat on their face.

It was a good thing we spoke about last gen holding next gen back, the proof is in the pudding with XBOX's best franchise, so everyone is now eating crow, but it could have been avoided if persons would take the wool off their eyes and appreciate sound reason and logic that was argued months and years ago when we heard MS's strategy. Imagine if we all just embraced Halo Infinite as the best we had ever seen for next gen and lie about it, how would that game look and play at launch?......We are so quick to take a persecution angle for any retort, any criticism about XBOX, but usually the people arguing against XBOX are doing more for XBOX than those arguing for...
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This is a fcking great post, i love it. I feel the same way!
 
Youtube recommended me this video and while a bit graphical, IMO it sums up why MS is in such sorry state right now.

That Colteastwood guy sounds like an alumn of the discord group of Phil's warriors.. must be a member.

 
Entroyp said:
Do we know how many channels the flash controller has to NAND flash? I find it hilarious that after all the trash talk VA only uses 2 PCIe lanes per storage device (internal and memory card).
Click to expand...

Why would a 2.4GB/s drive need more than 2 PCIe4 lanes? Having more doesn't make anything faster.
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
No, I'm not cool, go quote my post that I say xbox has no audio chip or apologize.
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:messenger_tears_of_joy:

Don't try to get by on semantics. You repeatedly said that XSX had a sound chip no better than the X1 chip. Along with all the nonsense about a GPU being required for HRTF based 3D audio, presumably because you saw a few promotional materials from AMD (Aureal A3D was pioneering this tech, GPU free, decades ago).

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. It's all fun and games, nothing personal.
.
 
Lysandros said:
I think that '100 GB' represents the typical game size using the same logic since no normal game would be 700 or 800 GB. They are essentially saying that 'all game data' will be available 'instantly'. Which is not very true obviously.
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Just change the word "100 GB" to " Game Data" and "instant" to "2.4GB/s Raw data". Problem solved. :lollipop_sunglasses:
 
Entroyp said:
They need to lie to create negative news against the PS5 to balance the universe or some shit like that.
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You gotta wonder what's the point though?

No amount of FUD right now impacts on any undecided purchaser to choose one console over the other. Titles available, features and price decide it.

As soon as people see the games running on the console decisions will start to be made. The PS5 event in June and the MS one in July were testament to that.

So I'm not sure why people waste the time on such banal topics like what is the definition of RDNA 1 vs 2.
 
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