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[Faithless83]

Alright each side had a stab at eachother about 4K... Can we now agree that upscaled or dynamic 4K is fine as long as the image looks clean ?
Can we be happy about next gen coming and stop this dick measuring contest ?
Every insiders with credibility said both consoles were very close in power and a few pixels of difference are really that important ?
If we could all just stop those stupid gotcha moments and focus on simple news without warring at the simple news,maybe we could avoid lots of bans.

Everyone reasonable enough brought this point eons ago. But the TF difference was what everyone and their mothers were focusing on.

Be sure that if it was the other way around (PS5 1440p) there would be several threads about it.

It's BS, I know, but we are anxious about the machines and it's the most fun we can have while we wait.

 

[saintjules]

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Probably the Spider-Man video.

 

[Rea]

I think you are vastly underestimating the difference in budget for a remake vs a game from scratch.

So you're saying dark souls 2 and 3 is cheaper to make because they are the same gameplay as dark souls 1??
LoL. so sekiro should be more expensive than dark souls 3, also assassin creed Valhalla should be cheaper coz it is same gameplay as previous Assassin creed.
Kay, whatever you say.

 

[Mahavastu]

They had a thorough blueprint but still had to make it from scratch. Ya know, the part that takes up like, I dunno, say 95% of all the work.

In one of the interviews yesterday they said they had the original source and got it running on the PS5.

Thats a REAL time safer compared to write everything from scratch.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Well, it seems Sony wasn't honest...
I can't find any other source about no RT in the game, maybe this site was the only one to ask him this?
Edit: I just checked on Wayback Machine and there was never mention of RT on the DeS page.

Demon's Souls | PS5 Games | PlayStation

Get Demon's Souls on PS5. Get the latest news, screenshots, trailers and more on the official PlayStation website.

web.archive.org

 

[cragarmi]

But who's going to fucking notice a difference when you're more than 6 feet away from the tv though? People are nitpicking now for a win that doesn't even matter in the long run.

This was more a play on the themes of WD Legion, Punk was probably before your time ay zoomer!

 

[VCL]

No ray tracing in Demon's Souls... ouch

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

No ray tracing in Demon's Souls... ouch

Either they got exclusive information or is just clickbait. Hard to know when no one else is reporting on that.

 

[Dolomite]

Niiiice

 

[Krisprolls]

No ray tracing in Demon's Souls... ouch

Well, on XSX, Legion went all the way down to 1440p due to RT, so I think I'd prefer no RT on Demon's Souls if it means it stays closer to true 4K /60 as it seems it is.

Especially since it looks incredible, unlike Legion. RT is often too costly for what it brings to the table. Power is often better used elsewhere.

 

[Mr Moose]

Demon's Souls from Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games

From Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games comes a remake of the PlayStation classic, Demon's Souls. In addition to beautiful shadow effects and ray tracing, players can choose between two graphics modes while playing: one focused on fidelity, and one focused on frame rate.

Who to believe?

 

[Faithless83]

Either they got exclusive information or is just clickbait. Hard to know when no one else is reporting on that.

The preview interview stated that the footage shown so far was the performance mode. There is a "cinematic" mode with reflections that is yet to be shown. Maybe they're referring to the performance mode?

I can't do it now, but the screenshots on the website are "CG like", maybe it's the cinematic mode?

 

[sircaw]

Niiiice

He should probably turn it on first. ffs




5.17 seconds in. listen to that. Fuck off jezz with your 300 dollar mic.

 

[Great Hair]

Another more lenghty share factory video, with some gameplay from PS app:

grabbed it, edited and until a better version shows up ...

 

[Stuart360]

If Demon's Souls had ray tracing, it probably wouldnt look half as good as it does. This is a good thing imo.

 

[Faithless83]

If Demon's Souls had ray tracing, it probably wouldnt look half as good as it does. This is a good thing imo.

 

[Stuart360]

No reference, i'm serious. DS looks stunning, i doubt it would look as good with RT, stuff would be scaled back.

 

[Krisprolls]

If Demon's Souls had ray tracing, it probably wouldnt look half as good as it does. This is a good thing imo.

Of course. It must be used very smartly right now, and in some games not at all, the power just isn't there to go wild with this tech. Next gen will be a different story obviously.

 

[cragarmi]

The preview interview stated that the footage shown so far was the performance mode. There is a "cinematic" mode with reflections that is yet to be shown. Maybe they're referring to the performance mode?

I can't do it now, but the screenshots on the website are "CG like", maybe it's the cinematic mode?

Ray tracing isn't just reflections it's lighting and shadows too, in performance mode it's just lighting and shadows.

 

[Mr Moose]

He should probably turn it on first. ffs




5.17 seconds in. listen to that. Fuck off jezz with your 300 dollar mic.

Might be using a dynamic mic, which is probably not good for these kind of tests lol, they are cardioid and are good at blocking background noise.

 

[sircaw]

Might be using a dynamic mic, which is probably not good for these kind of tests lol, they are cardioid and are good at blocking background noise.

Stop trying to make me see sense, i want my pound of flesh ffs

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Demon's Souls from Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games

From Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games comes a remake of the PlayStation classic, Demon's Souls. In addition to beautiful shadow effects and ray tracing, players can choose between two graphics modes while playing: one focused on fidelity, and one focused on frame rate.

Who to believe?

Yup I also highly doubt ray tracing would have been pulled this late in production. Game has already gone gold, not that it means much these days lol

 

[Faithless83]

No reference, i'm serious. DS looks stunning, i doubt it would look as good with RT, stuff would be scaled back.

My bad, I read it as a jab to Halo Infinite ray tracing DF video.

 

[travisktl]

No reference, i'm serious. DS looks stunning, i doubt it would look as good with RT, stuff would be scaled back.

Unless I'm mistaken, isn't real time lighting and shadows another way of saying ray tracing? That was confirmed yesterday in the IGN developer interview. The cinematic mode is native 4k, 30 FPS, and also has real time lighting, shadows, and improved tessellation. All footage so far has been the performance mode, which is dynamic 4k, 60fps, and no ray tracing.

Gavin Moore sounded extremely excited about the cinematic mode and how incredible it looks, so my guess is that all of the real time effects actually do make a big difference.

 

[Stuart360]

Unless I'm mistaken, isn't real time lighting and shadows another way of saying ray tracing? That was confirmed yesterday in the IGN developer interview. The cinematic mode is native 4k, 30 FPS, and also has real time lighting, shadows, and improved tessellation. All footage so far has been the performance mode, which is dynamic 4k, 60fps, and no ray tracing.

Gavin Moore sounded extremely excited about the cinematic mode and how incredible it looks, so my guess is that all of the real time effects actually do make a big difference.

Real time lighting and shadows have ben a thing in games for years, and they are quite demanding, but its not classed as ray tracing.

 

[travisktl]

Real time lighting and shadows have ben a thing in games for years, and they are quite demanding, but its not classed as ray tracing.

I'm genuinely curious here, what is the difference? If light rays are being cast in real time, along with shadows being created by things in real time and both of those being dynamic, isn't that the exact same thing as ray tracing? Mentioning both of those things as "real time" sounds to me like they are the ray tracing features, since the lighting isn't pre baked into things.

 

[Nowcry]

I'm genuinely curious here, what is the difference? If light rays are being cast in real time, along with shadows being created by things in real time and both of those being dynamic, isn't that the exact same thing as ray tracing?

There is no difference, the RT used previously was made by CPU, currently it is made by dedicated hardware that allows to create more rays and therefore more precise shadows.

The only thing that has varied so far with RT is reflection.

In fact it is totally stupid that they are doing shadows and lighting in real time and are using the CPU, they will be using the RT hardware.

And they wouldn't have been able to locate any RT reflections so their conclusion is there is no RT. And yet there are enemies casting shadows on themselves ......

People do not know what they are seeing.

 

[Stuart360]

I'm genuinely curious here, what is the difference? If light rays are being cast in real time, along with shadows being created by things in real time and both of those being dynamic, isn't that the exact same thing as ray tracing?

I just know ray tracing is a lot more accurate, and time saving, its just very demanding. I believe real time lighting etc still has to be coded, while RT calculates everyhting itself, and is way more accurate.

 

[Sinthor]

Could that be the surprise John was talking about?

Jeez...they either remade Bloodborne as well OR Dark Souls.

 

[Nowcry]

Jeez...they either remade Bloodborne as well OR Dark Souls.

Something tells me that they have adapted Bloodborne to 60 fps.

Realistically, I don't think they would have had time for anything else. That DS looks spectacular.

 

[Sinthor]

No reference, i'm serious. DS looks stunning, i doubt it would look as good with RT, stuff would be scaled back.

But...it DOES have ray tracing in the fidelity mode. I haven't seen if it does on performance mode...I doubt it does.

 

[itsnotme]

So people are now doubting DS has ray tracing because a random account on twitter with 69 followers linked a French article saying otherwise? LOL people never learn. Did a we get a video from IGN literally confirming it has RT also if I'm not mistaken (correct me) didn't DF say it was using RT in their analysis?

 

[Sinthor]

Something tells me that they have adapted Bloodborne to 60 fps.

Realistically, I don't think they would have had time for anything else. That DS looks spectacular.

Maybe that's it. Not a full on remake but instead a PS5 patch for Bloodborne that uncaps the frame rate, etc.? That would still be cool.

I just had a thought though that kind of stopped me in my tracks about these new machines. It involves the quick resume. If you have disk versions of your games...you can't use quick resume, can you? On either XSX or PS5? I mean, if you have to have the disk in to run the game, then you can't swap back and forth really. I mean you COULD, but not really effectively, right?

I mean, they'd have to decouple things so that say you only need the disk to install the game and after that you're validated unless you delete it. So is all this fancy quick resume really only good for titles you get the digital only versions of?

 

[Rea]

No ray tracing in Demon's Souls... ouch

Huh? So?

 

[Nowcry]

Maybe that's it. Not a full on remake but instead a PS5 patch for Bloodborne that uncaps the frame rate, etc.? That would still be cool.

I just had a thought though that kind of stopped me in my tracks about these new machines. It involves the quick resume. If you have disk versions of your games...you can't use quick resume, can you? On either XSX or PS5? I mean, if you have to have the disk in to run the game, then you can't swap back and forth really. I mean you COULD, but not really effectively, right?

I mean, they'd have to decouple things so that say you only need the disk to install the game and after that you're validated unless you delete it. So is all this fancy quick resume really only good for titles you get the digital only versions of?

I think that in the long run Sony prefers to sell you the games in its Store.
I dont think they will carry out any such maneuver even if it is possible precisely because they want to promote the digital and forcing the disappearance of the physical in a way that the user "wants" it.

 

[jose4gg]

The Spanish speaking site "LEVEL UP" in an interview with Gavin Moore, has confirmed NO-RT in Demon souls,

"It's like any other graphic improvement, there is a cost [to implement raytracing]. If we had implemented ray tracing in the game, that would mean that we would have had to leave something out. There is a limited time in game development." Translate using Google Translate

Confirman que Demon’s Souls no tendrá raytracing en PlayStation 5 | LevelUp

LEVEL UP platicó con Gavin Moore, director creativo del juego y miembro de SIE Japan Studio

www.levelup.com

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Ray tracing is not equal to dynamic lighting, more accurate shadows and reflections but it's the method used to achieve all those things on a very accurate level.

After seeing how Unreal Engine 5 achieved dynamic bounce lighting through "Lumen", I'm not actually to fussed whether DS uses ray tracing or not, as long as the lighting looks great. It would also be curious to see if PS5's First Party studios have their own proprietary dynamic lighting systems/methods developed by the ICE team.

 

[01011001]

Ray tracing is not equal to dynamic lighting, more accurate shadows and reflections but it's the method used to achieve all those things on a very accurate level.

After seeing how Unreal Engine 5 achieved dynamic bounce lighting through "Lumen", I'm not actually to fussed whether DS uses ray tracing or not, as long as the lighting looks great. It would also be curious to see if PS5's First Party studios have their own proprietary dynamic lighting systems/methods developed by the ICE team.

Lumen is raytraced GI... it is just software based (it was in the demo we saw, I would guess they will implement hardware acceleration support along the way) and highly optimized for performance.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Lumen is raytraced GI... it is just software based (it was in the demo we saw, I would guess they will implement hardware acceleration support along the way) and highly optimized for performance.

Thanks for the input. I think hardware acceleration support is already "supported" for Lumen, although I don't think it was used in the demo because Unreal/Epic wanted show off how good their software based solution was.

 

[Stuart360]

The Spanish speaking site "LEVEL UP" in an interview with Gavin Moore, has confirmed NO-RT in Demon souls,

Confirman que Demon’s Souls no tendrá raytracing en PlayStation 5 | LevelUp

LEVEL UP platicó con Gavin Moore, director creativo del juego y miembro de SIE Japan Studio

www.levelup.com

Literally what i just said earlier. They would of had to scale back the graphics. The game wouldnt look as good with RT imo.

 

[Sinthor]

I think that in the long run Sony prefers to sell you the games in its Store.
I dont think they will carry out any such maneuver even if it is possible precisely because they want to promote the digital and forcing the disappearance of the physical in a way that the user "wants" it.

So same with Microsoft then? I just hadn't actually thought about the mechanics of how that worked before now. I guess as you say it's a way for both to push the market to all digital and make people ASK for it to be that way..... Hmmmm.....

 

[Insane Metal]

Dude. No RT in DS now lol. Things are getting dangerously hot for PS5 lol.

 

[01011001]

Thanks for the input. I think hardware acceleration support is already "supported" for Lumen, although I don't think it was used in the demo because Unreal/Epic wanted show off how good their software based solution was.

I wonder what will be better in practice tho, Lumen or Crytek's SVOGI, both use the same idea... we already have SVOGI in action in games even on Switch, we only saw Lumen in a demo so far, so it is hard to tell how much they tried to hide possible issues with it.
I wonder how long until we will see a game using it, it will be interesting for sure.

 

[01011001]

The Spanish speaking site "LEVEL UP" in an interview with Gavin Moore, has confirmed NO-RT in Demon souls,

Confirman que Demon’s Souls no tendrá raytracing en PlayStation 5 | LevelUp

LEVEL UP platicó con Gavin Moore, director creativo del juego y miembro de SIE Japan Studio

www.levelup.com

wait... didn't they say it uses raytracing before? or was that some undisclosed speculation by some outlet which was then spread as fact? I could swear it was seen as having RT GI/AO

 

[Faithless83]

Dude. No RT in DS now lol. Things are getting dangerously hot for PS5 lol.

Last I heard PS5 was RDNA 0.25.

 

[Sinthor]

wait... didn't they say it uses raytracing before? or was that some undisclosed speculation by some outlet which was then spread as fact? I could swear it was seen as having RT GI/AO

Yeah, I'm certain they did. Oh well...if they decided it drop it, it probably wasn't worth it for them. I dunno...that game looks so awesome, I can't visualize how any RT would make it better. Seems to be better to me in a game like Spider Man with more bright and mirrored surfaces, etc. But we'll see.

Love the people griefing on PS5 for "no RT LOL!" though. I mean...what game has been shown running on XSX with 4k60 and ray tracing?

 

[Nowcry]

wait... didn't they say it uses raytracing before? or was that some undisclosed speculation by some outlet which was then spread as fact? I could swear it was seen as having RT GI/AO

When I see him move I think so.

It is fully GI surely using the dedicated RT hardware. But it is possible that it does not have RT reflection in any case with the assets it has it is very difficult to implement RT reflections and be able to remain with the same quality. Such VRAM needed


I think what he meant is that the RT hardware is GI calculated, and they couldn't implement RT reflection (RT for ordinary people) that's why we like their lighting so much.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Dude. No RT in DS now lol. Things are getting dangerously hot for PS5 lol.

"Laughs in still the best looking launch game on either console"

 

[01011001]

Yeah, I'm certain they did. Oh well...if they decided it drop it, it probably wasn't worth it for them. I dunno...that game looks so awesome, I can't visualize how any RT would make it better. Seems to be better to me in a game like Spider Man with more bright and mirrored surfaces, etc. But we'll see.

Love the people griefing on PS5 for "no RT LOL!" though. I mean...what game has been shown running on XSX with 4k60 and ray tracing?

no game on next gen will run at 4K60 with RT, that would be an unrealistically high expectation... maybe dynamic 4K60 if it is only GI and AO... even with dynamic shadows it would be pushing it.