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[KaiserBecks]

Well phil said he had an XSX not a dev kit in DECEMBER last year

Question is, was he lying then, or is he lying now ? Which is it ?

Chips wwere finalised 2H 2019 for both systems by the way.

Mass Production, how does it work?

 

[GenericUser]

Strange, Xbox One X and One S are available where I live.

 

[geordiemp]

Mass Production, how does it work?

You tell me

Waiting on AMD for specfic technology is something you would do at Chip design and engineering verification stage, so being late on engineering samples and locking down silicon design waiting for somehing would be logical.

XSX silicon DESIGN verification was finished before ps5.

So, that has NOTHING to do with productions schedule.

What has chip verification and technology got to do with mass production stage ? Its 2 totally different topics.

All MS had to say was mass production was delayed due to various reasons, that is fine and acceptable statement.

But someone in PR try to roll a production delay into RDNA2 advantage SPIN again by a suit, and its just silly.

 

[TBiddy]

Mass Production, how does it work?

It's rocket science, apparantly, and it's hard to fathom for some people, that Microsoft had prototypes ready in december, but weren't ready to start mass producing until 'late summer'.

 

[KaiserBecks]

You tell me

Waiting on AMD for specfic technology is something you would do at Chip design and engineering verification stage, so being late on engineering samples and locking down silicon design waiting for somehing would be logical.

XSX silicon DESIGN verification was finished before ps5.

So, that has NOTHING to do with productions schedule.

What has chip verification and technology got to do with mass production stage ? Its 2 totally different topics.

All MS had to say was mass production was delayed due to various reasons, that is fine and acceptable statement.

But someone in PR try to roll a production delay into RDNA2 advantage SPIN again by a suit, and its just silly.

Who said his unit was final? If changes are being made, mass production is getting a delay. In an Interview with shacknews recently he also said everything right now is about production, because at this Point they are able to sell whatever amount of Units they are able to Produce. Why delay Production if not for a significant reason then?

I think it's funny that people are trying to twist and Turn every piece of Information they get from a guy who is probably the most open "PR person" in gaming. I suppose talking about superfast SSDs got old fast.

 

[Shmunter]

Could easily translate to....

 

[FranXico]

no Fud please

You should know.

 

[kuncol02]

Indeed. Microsoft waited for a reason. What the reason was, is unknown, but if I were a betting man, I'd wager it was something with DirectX Raytracing support.

I would bet on SFS. That's feature which could in theory mess most in rendering. That mesh with RTG info about production being late because of drivers problem and also with other rumors about current games using workarounds around SFS (not enough of time to implement?) That's obviously pure speculation on my side and we will probably never know for what exactly they waited.

 

[bxrz]

Christ, this thread is embarrasing.

There's nothing controversial in the interview. Clearly, Microsoft were waiting for something from AMD. It could be big, it could be small or it could be something concerning the multi-use for the APU as servers. He simply states that Microsoft started production a "bit later" (2 weeks? a month? who knows?) than Sony, and yet we have 6 pages of gloating fanboys acting like 14 year old kids, who recently discovered circle jerking.

You would think these people are getting paid by Sony the way they put their cape on everytime

 

[Hezekiah]

Well... Phil and his clowns were bragging about having a finalized chip back in late 2019. Which one is the lie?

"Yesterday I was lying, today I'm telling the truth."

 

[DeepEnigma]

You don't even need to travel to those shit holes to experience them. Just take a look at our very own Politics forum if you're a masochist.

Also, as evidence by this thread, PlayStation fans are fucking idiots also.

Should have followed dear leader's advice.

 

[FritzJ92]

Because waiting for final device forced them to finalize SDK later (You can't test it without device obviously).


Not really. We don't know if GDK shipped then had final profiles of XSX (if any) or even was able to build for it (Often early devkits are just PCs with expected target specification. For sure OG XBox was). We know from other hand that first GDK version which allowed for certification of games was released in July (I would consider that first full release).

(Deleted response) I'm an idiot.

 

[kuncol02]

Well... Phil and his clowns were bragging about having a finalized chip back in late 2019. Which one is the lie?

You know that both could be true at the same time? Finalized chip != Start of mass production of console

 

[Team Andromeda]

But someone in PR try to roll a production delay into RDNA2 advantage SPIN again by a suit, and its just silly.

It's not PR it's what MS did with the 360 and OG Xbox and there those console had launch issue shortages

 

[Iced Arcade]

Man that first page though, like a fanboy troll hall of fame.

 

[regawdless]

Makes sense. It takes time for that second GPU to be ready in large numbers. It will unlock with the next update and give MS a 40% lead over PS5.

 

[kuncol02]

We do know this, the GDK that allowed XSX/XSS games to compile released in June of this year..

June one was first with XSS first mentioned (info about profiling tools). July one allowed to make final build of games to certification. There is nothing about earlier GDK releases you can get from that info. We don't know when they allowed compilation of games for devkit. I would expect way earlier because there is no way they would be able to finish games like Valhalla in that 3, maybe 4 months.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I think Sony had their tech nailed down earlier than Microsoft did. That's not too shocking to envisage.

To be fair, MS and AMD were pretty tied in with other over RDNA 2 specs and tech. Seeing now how much integration there is with MS tech such as VRS, Mesh Shaders, Direct RT, Direct ML, SFS etc, I have no doubt it took a little longer to get to the point where all that was finalized.
You can see how MS has been working hard to make Direct X the default API for PC.
MS has ingrained Direct X 12 U and it's new extensions into both AMD and Nvidias new cards.
I think the XSX was just as important to MS from an API point of view.
Looking at it now, with both AMD and Nvidia promoting the new DX12 extensions such as VRS, Mesh Shaders, SFS amoungst others, and these also being on the XSX/S, I can see how from a development point of view, this could be the default third party development environment.
Will be interesting to see if this proves correct or not.

The idea of waiting for some last minute thing is insane, imagine how long it take to a design be tested, validated. VRS, Mesh Shaders and everything else are part of the DX12U feature set and both consoles support it. The secret sauce from Microsoft is the bigger SoC with 16 extra CU's to achieve 12TF. Sony doesn't say they support VRS because it has it under their own Api and probably have other terminology, the new Geometry Engine (GE) block of the RDNA 2 technology needs VRS by design.

 

[mckmas8808]

Christ, this thread is embarrasing.

There's nothing controversial in the interview. Clearly, Microsoft were waiting for something from AMD. It could be big, it could be small or it could be something concerning the multi-use for the APU as servers. He simply states that Microsoft started production a "bit later" (2 weeks? a month? who knows?) than Sony, and yet we have 6 pages of gloating fanboys acting like 14 year old kids, who recently discovered circle jerking.

You are looking over the part where Phil is pushing the "Full RDNA2" marketing point though. Are you looking past that for convenience sake?

 

[EverydayBeast]

There's been a lot of reasons for low console stock at launch

 

[FlyyGOD]

Indeed. Microsoft waited for a reason. What the reason was, is unknown, but if I were a betting man, I'd wager it was something with DirectX Raytracing support.

I heard from so called insiders that Sony skipped RDNA 2 and got RDNA 3 tech in PS5 before RDNA 2 was even finished. Im still waiting for conformation.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Consoles are out and the FUD doesn't stop

Tom Warren damage controlling as usual.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

They should have pushed the console back and wait until it's fully ready.
What has releasing the console early done for Xbox, but continues a sting of EMBARRASSMENTS.

All this rush to try and compete with Sony just to get rocked in every game comparison with the stronger hardware.

Does anyone at MS not know you can only do first impressions once? Smh.

 

[John Wick]

i read chinese, which part of that link says what you say?
no google translate, no Fud please.

You read Chinese? Are you sure? Can you teach the rest of us?
"I read chinese" LMFAO

 

[Hendrick's]

So are people here actually doubting this claim? Do you actually believe Phil could just make this up and get away with it? There is zero doubt this is true.

Now, whether or not it was worth waiting for whatever features they waited for, only time will tell.

 

[Outrunner]

How many more threads of xcuses.

 

[longdi]

You read Chinese? Are you sure? Can you teach the rest of us?
"I read chinese" LMFAO

i dont understand your aggression?
yes i read Chinese.

 

[Coolwhhip]

The Xbox wait list keeps growing:

- games
- tools
- specific technology

What's next!?

 

[mejin]

So are people here actually doubting this claim? Do you actually believe Phil could just make this up and get away with it? There is zero doubt this is true.

Now, whether or not it was worth waiting for whatever features they waited for, only time will tell.

Being full of shit is not a crime.

 

[Hendrick's]

Being full of shit is not a crime.

Bullshit. You can't as a leader of a publicly traded company, straight up make claims that aren't true and not expect repercussions. If he was lying, AMD or someone would come out and say as much. Xbox is full RDNA2 , whatever the hell that neans. I suggest you all get over it.

 

[Leyasu]

Sony had to delay the ps3 because of a diode no?

Why does it seem so far fetched now??

 

[TBiddy]

You are looking over the part where Phil is pushing the "Full RDNA2" marketing point though. Are you looking past that for convenience sake?

That part is The Verge paraphrasing. There is nothing in the Full interview transcript regarding RDNA2. Here's the full quote:

No, no, no. We started manufacturing late summer. We were a little bit later than the competition, because we were waiting for some specific AMD technology in our chip. We were a little bit behind where they were, where Sony was, in terms of building units. We started in late summer. When you do that, then you have to ship them to all the right retailers and distributors. There's a time lag, even when you start and even when they're coming off the assembly line, [until they're] sitting at retail shelves.

There's absolutely nothing controversial about it, and yet we have another thread of warriors screaming "FUD", "BULLSHIT", "LOL PR PERSON SELLING SNAKE OIL" and what have we. I get it. It's console launch, and everyone's anxious to have their favorite plastic box and mega-corp win, but come on.

 

[Garani]

Pic or didn't happen.

 

[mckmas8808]

That part is The Verge paraphrasing. There is nothing in the Full interview transcript regarding RDNA2. Here's the full quote:

No, no, no. We started manufacturing late summer. We were a little bit later than the competition, because we were waiting for some specific AMD technology in our chip. We were a little bit behind where they were, where Sony was, in terms of building units. We started in late summer. When you do that, then you have to ship them to all the right retailers and distributors. There's a time lag, even when you start and even when they're coming off the assembly line, [until they're] sitting at retail shelves.

There's absolutely nothing controversial about it, and yet we have another thread of warriors screaming "FUD", "BULLSHIT", "LOL PR PERSON SELLING SNAKE OIL" and what have we. I get it. It's console launch, and everyone's anxious to have their favorite plastic box and mega-corp win, but come on.

Okay I take back what I said about that then. I didn't know The Verge just tossed that in there. I should have known better.

 

[TBiddy]

Okay I take back what I said about that then. I didn't know The Verge just tossed that in there. I should have known better.

No worries. To be fair, Microsoft has been going on and on and on and on about "Full RDNA2" and that's probably why The Verge added that part. But in this specific interview, I honestly can't see anything controversial. Apparantly a lot of other people could, based on the numerous posts in this thread.

 

[azertydu91]

No worries. To be fair, Microsoft has been going on and on and on and on about "Full RDNA2" and that's probably why The Verge added that part. But in this specific interview, I honestly can't see anything controversial. Apparantly a lot of other people could, based on the numerous posts in this thread.

Not controversial from Phil but damn that's bad journalism to add something not said in an interview.
And worse, it is not a journalist opinion but just a plain false report of a statement.That's entirely a fault from The Verge which is not really surprising though, they've been really bad lately even without talking about Tom Warring.

 

[wachie]

Guys, don't give these hacks the click. They are desperate to garner anything and everything.

 

[Elios83]

You tell me

Waiting on AMD for specfic technology is something you would do at Chip design and engineering verification stage, so being late on engineering samples and locking down silicon design waiting for somehing would be logical.

XSX silicon DESIGN verification was finished before ps5.

So, that has NOTHING to do with productions schedule.

What has chip verification and technology got to do with mass production stage ? Its 2 totally different topics.

All MS had to say was mass production was delayed due to various reasons, that is fine and acceptable statement.

But someone in PR try to roll a production delay into RDNA2 advantage SPIN again by a suit, and its just silly.

Pretty much.
Some people have really short memory. The design of their SOC was totally done last December, just like the whole console.
If production started late it's because of delays due to covid not because they were waiting for the power of full RDNA2 THIS YEAR (PR spin to try turn a bad thing into a positive). Sony reported issues as well in checking/inspecting manufacturing lines due to travels restrictions in early summer. They still were able to make more units than what they made for the PS4 launch.

 

[John Wick]

i dont understand your aggression?
yes i read Chinese.

What aggression?
Is Chinese even a language? They speak Cantonese/Mandarin etc

 

[KAOS]

For those of you who don't believe MS/Phil's half truth's! Here is a video by the prophetic twins (yes that's Craig in the car... maybe)! Gotta feed the trolls!



Hopefully things tools/patches/management get worked out soon cause even as it is the XsX is a great system!

 

[mckmas8808]

Pretty much.
Some people have really short memory. The design of their SOC was totally done last December, just like the whole console.
If production started late it's because of delays due to covid not because they were waiting for the power of full RDNA2 THIS YEAR (PR spin to try turn a bad thing into a positive). Sony reported issues as well in checking/inspecting manufacturing lines due to travels restrictions in early summer. They still were able to make more units than what they made for the PS4 launch.

Is it possible that Sony requested more PS5s to be made strictly due to the demand they were seeing? And MS requested less Xbox Series consoles due to the demand they were seeing? Couldn't it be that simple?

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

You are looking over the part where Phil is pushing the "Full RDNA2" marketing point though. Are you looking past that for convenience sake?

Is it not? If it is why is it a crime to promote that? That is his job, not sure why that is such a shot across the bow. Is the PS5? Everything I've read on here has been speculation about it and nothing definitive. My guess is your panties don't get so tangled with all the RDNA3 PS5 talk on here.

 

[oldergamer]

Im curious what tech for them came later?

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Pretty much.
Some people have really short memory. The design of their SOC was totally done last December, just like the whole console.
If production started late it's because of delays due to covid not because they were waiting for the power of full RDNA2 THIS YEAR (PR spin to try turn a bad thing into a positive). Sony reported issues as well in checking/inspecting manufacturing lines due to travels restrictions in early summer. They still were able to make more units than what they made for the PS4 launch.

Seriously what would be the point in claiming this if CoVid slowed production. There is no need for any kind of damage control for limited launch stock. It's normally limited and all they have to say is we wish we had more but Covid limited production and nobody would bat an eye. Comes off more like you guys just want to bitch about something.

 

[oldergamer]

Is it possible that Sony requested more PS5s to be made strictly due to the demand they were seeing? And MS requested less Xbox Series consoles due to the demand they were seeing? Couldn't it be that simple?

No. How does one measure demand? They likely made all that they could. Both ms and sony know launch consoles are always going to sell out.

 

[assurdum]

Forgive me but didn't they said some months ago the new console should be released even before the ps5 release date(caught off guard) but covid screw everything or I'm wrong? Man I don't know what to say anymore but the continue contradictions around this new xbox are something else. And again they continue to push this narrative which something of technical more advanced should be inside of the new Xbox. Sony already tried this path with the PS3 and is not ended well.

 

[sinnergy]

Forgive me but didn't they said some months ago the new console should be released even before the ps5 release date(caught off guard) but covid screw everything or I'm wrong? Man I don't know what to say anymore but the continue contradictions around this new xbox are something else.

Mostly by those on forums ..

 

[sinnergy]

The idea of waiting for some last minute thing is insane, imagine how long it take to a design be tested, validated. VRS, Mesh Shaders and everything else are part of the DX12U feature set and both consoles support it. The secret sauce from Microsoft is the bigger SoC with 16 extra CU's to achieve 12TF. Sony doesn't say they support VRS because it has it under their own Api and probably have other terminology, the new Geometry Engine (GE) block of the RDNA 2 technology needs VRS by design.

Maybe the could make them on a small scale .. who knows ..

Maybe they really wanted a feature that wasn't ready for max production.. who knows .. Maybe it's VRS and that's why Sony does it in their own way .. maybe it wasn't ready .. who knows ..

I could care less .. it's standing here and it's great ..

 

[assurdum]

Mostly by those on forums ..

Keep trying to push higher possible the expectations of the people. They are never a good things from my experience.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

"Specific technologies"? Wtf does that even mean? Why not just say what it is if it was so critical.