Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
I own one
Don't wanna use it though lol
I'd rather buy a series x than play on my PC If have too
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Xbox CFO Talks Bethesda Exclusivity; “We Want Bethesda Content to be First or Better or Best on Xbox Platforms”
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Opinion Business Platform
I own one
Don't wanna use it though lol
I'd rather buy a series x than play on my PC If have too
Shelookdlvl18
Banned
Well... It kinda does if the latest sales figures are correct.
I see the numbers thrown around here regularly regarding what console sales numbers are, and I can't seem to make the figures work based on them. So I'm not claiming anything with certainty.
The US ltd figures for PS4 and XB1 were something like 33m and 29m. Given that... We know XB1 is competitive in Australia, UK, and Canada, so even if the PS4 outsold the XB1 in those countries the disparity wouldn't be that great. Playstation dominates in Europe, while Xbox dominates in central and South America except Argentina. We also know what Japan's numbers look like.
Taking all that into account, the gospel preached here on GAF is that the PS4 sold above 120 million consoles while the XB1 couldn't even manage 50 million. Meanwhile, both MS and Sony are selling consoles as fast as they can make them currently. So while I'm sure I'll get crucified here for it, I think there's more than enough reason to be doubtful that there's 100-120 million Playstion userbase that MS needs to sell Bethesda games to. The data simply doesn't suggest it at all for multiple reasons.
DaleinCalgary
Member
If MS does put Bethesda games on PS I have no idea why they spent 7.5 billion on buying them.
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assurdum
Banned
You know it's not like to have more revenues for Bethesda games are a bad thing for the MS finances eh. IMO the better thing for them would be to keep their games exclusive for a year or 2 and then release them on ps5 too. I wouldn't spit in the face to the vaste playstation userbase but they practically ignored most of the Bethesda games in the recent generation so who knows.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
There's the rest of the eastern and asian markets too
We barely have any data on Latin America performance except Zhuges 2014 report, the same guy who also said the console was at 41 million two years ago lol
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Jeez, I don't know. Maybe to put them all on GP day one and expend your userbase while at the same time earning a huge amount of hard cash by selling it all to PS and Nintendo folks for high prices? Why do people keep asking this silly question? I mean why would I buy an existing succesful store? Well, so I can make money, maybe? Is that so hard to grasp?
DaleinCalgary
Member
It's 7.5 billion dollars. You can do a lot with that money in making new studios and still make $10 per copy in royalties of bethesda games sold on xbox.
It's a toy to them. Just like they lost billions on Nokia.
assurdum
Banned
But they can do even more money with a later multiplat release. They can easily resell their games to the other platforms at full price with less costs and it's a win win for MS.
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Shelookdlvl18
Banned
Taking what relevant data is available, neither of the two points you mention suggest anywhere near a +120m to -50m split, which is what I was getting at. That's how absurd the numbers thrown around here are. We can slant numbers for entire regions of the planet, or exclude entire countries completely and the disparity routinely mentioned here still wouldn't jive.
As to my overall point... Seeing as most future Bethesda games will most likely be exclusive to to current gen, you'd have to assume that the PS5 is guaranteed to repeat that 120 million sales mark. Furthermore, you'd have to assume that every one of those 120 people only bought a PS5 as opposed to both the XBS and PS5. There's simply no way this "MS needs that 120 million userbase" argument works... Like at all.... Not even close.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Your conclusion ultimately revolves around how significant Latin America is for Xbox and as a gaming market which we have barely any actual data on
In contrast with the other markets
You have Northen America, which is in the PS4s favour @ 40+ million
You have the european market which is greatly in the PS4s favour @ 30+ million
Then you have Japan which is greatly in the PS4s favour @ 20+ million
Then you have the rest of the developing world and non-english speaking countries where xbox does poorly
That number isn't just thrown around on Neogaf. It's all over the internet. Even EA alluded to it.
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Shelookdlvl18
Banned
What's hard to grasp is how they increase their GP userbase if they make it available on all their competitors platforms. The only thing sillier than repeatedly asking that question is assuming that keeping Bethesda games where they currently were would somehow increase GP subscribers. I simple timed exclusivity wouldn't achieve that to the greatest extent possible.
devilNprada
Member
Shelookdlvl18
Banned
My conclusion can entirely wipe South America off the map, and still work perfectly fine.
The US figures are currently PS4= 33million and XB1= 29 million. Where the hell are you getting a +40 million from? Certainly not Canada, and 1000% not Mexico which greatly favors Xbox.
The European market does greatly prefer the PS4. I'm not sure if it's 30+ million based on your guesses so far, but even if it is. The disparity still wouldn't work.
Are you simply making up numbers out of your ass? Japan's total sales for PS4 is 9.2 million. How do get +20 million from that?
Then we have the rest of the world where we can assume the numbers aren't half as terrible as the stupid numbers you've put up so far are.
Finally, no that number isn't propagated around the internet like it is here. Attempting to strengthen your argument by saying the masses agree with you doesn't work like that. The internet is chock full of people claiming the earth is flat too. Does that suggest that it is?
You can shrug your shoulders, downplay it, or not say anything at all, but the more you attempt to argue my point, the more you'll just prove me right. Not because of anything I said. Simply because the numbers are so far off you can't make the narrative fit, no matter how hard you try.
devilNprada
Member
Where did you get this from?
Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
My bad. Got the completely wrong statistic there. Was for the the OG PlayStation
PS4 numbers are
33 million in the US
42 million in the EU (which is nearly 2 years old)
9 million in Japan
And yes the rest of the world which will obviously be in favour to PS due to Xbox's poor support for non-english speakers
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Shelookdlvl18
Banned
From every source available on the matter. While the XB1 didn't dominate as thoroughly as the 360 did, there's absolutely zero data that suggests anything contrary. Xbox routinely has around 60% marketshare in Mexico.
betrayal
Banned
That's not the point at all. It's about MS buying a market share and taking something away from the majority of consumers. They don't achieve this through innovation or the development of their own games, but only through money. They create something with money that the competition (Sony, Nintendo) creates with their own creativity, work and identity. They create added value for customers of their own ecosystem, but take away many things from everyone else who does not use this ecosystem.
Shelookdlvl18
Banned
Okay, and that's PS4's numbers. While we don't have as solid info on XB1 numbers, there's nothing to suggest that the disparity is so large.
Look, I'm not trying to claim that the XB1 has sold on par with the PS4 or anything. It's crystal clear that the PS4 dominated last gen sales wise. I also said from the beginning that due to the unknown factors, that nothing I said was stated with certainty.
All I'm saying is that from what we can generally assume to be true based on past evidence... If the figures are 29 million for the US alone, that it's hard to believe it's under 50 million world wide.
devilNprada
Member
Like?
Maybe in the 360 years but Mexico has moved on, they all want playstations now..
Coming from the mexican community in Los Angeles and having two mfg plants in different parts of Mexico...
Maybe you have something official to contradict the anecdotal?
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Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Statista also has them at just under 50 million sold as of November 2020, though I don't know how reliable they are
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Shelookdlvl18
Banned
Every bit of factual data suggests as such. Don't tell me anecdotal because you live in LA. Almost my entire family lives in Mexico, and I spend a couple of months a year in MC. I own property in both the US and Mexico. There's nada that suggests the PS4 sells on par with the XB1 there. That's despite Sony undercutting the Xb1's price by $200.
You're going to die on this hill having gained nothing.
devilNprada
Member
Again we're going to need to see something official..
I did not make the claim.... You did..
aaah and finally we arrived there, "creativity work and identity"..you should probably review the history and remember that sony basically kicked out from the market Sega (that was honestly also mismanaged), they did lots of third party agreements to get Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Resident Evil and very importantly Final Fantasy 7 probably the most famous game in that period a game that was borne on another console, bought studios as naughty dog,guerrilla, zipper interactive ... bought a very famous entire publisher called Psygnosis, until they got what they are now and now continue to power play utilizing their position on the market to obtain exclusives, timed exclusives, dlc and anything else holding them far from the competition (spiderman is the perfect example). They still continue to leave the competition breathless making them starving from japanese devs support strong in the fact that japanese devs would never deny to a compatriot company such as sony support. we all know that if there had been any other company in place of Microsoft they would have already abandoned the market leaving Sony basically a monopoly. Let's stop enjoying Sony like the good guy because just isn't. All companies want the same
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Again they don't just care about revenue, if they make games exclusives and that moves the stock price up 1%, they would have increased the market cap of their company by at least $10bn. This focus on 7.5bn and the idea of having a 60 quid game sold to 100m users (60*0.3*100 = $2bn per game assuming the stupidest attachment rate of 60% and Microsoft takes 30%)
Zok310
Banned
They would literally make less money on a smaller user base for Bethesda games going forward. Why is this so hard to understand?
Bethesda user base is going from a Xbox/PS/PC combined to just Xbox. How in your mind does that make them more money?
assurdum
Banned
Wait are you really serious? It's all about revenues. If multiplat would assure more money, don't worry, they won't give a fuck about the rest. Again in my opinion a temporal exclusive for an year or more is more than enough to increase their userbase or the gamepass market. Don't make much sense in the long terms but eh who knows. They couldn't care.
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Why is it not on PC anymore in your scenario?
Yes (also remember I said 'just'; revenue is one factor, mau is another and the number of subscribers is one) , as mentioned before the stock market distinguish between 60 gained off a subscription and 60 quid off a single purchase buy.
It's weirdly cause of Amazon Prime. With a subscription model, users are more likely to be committed to your platform, less likely to shop around and therefore more likely to spend money.
Zok310
Banned
Because XB exclusive means exclusive to Xbox.
So xbox gamepass isn't on PC?
assurdum
Banned
Are you trying to say Amazon Prime or Netflix doesn't resell their shows to the other TV channels a year later?
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Can you find me a Netflix studio show (produced 100% by them) that been sold to another company a year later? Most of the ones that I can think of are either licensed or co-produced. I also don't know if the analogy works 100%, as the Netflix platform isn't upselling you similar content really.
That's not what I was saying at all. I am saying that shareholders likes companies whom have users whom pay 10 a month instead of randomly 30 a quarter.
Also when I was referring to Amazon Prime, I meant the free delivery subscription. Those users who sign up to Amazon Prime as 1) they need to justify their subscription 2) it is and feels easier.
This is true even with prices are cheaper on other sites.
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assurdum
Banned
I have seen different Netflix series in a tv channel some year later. I could swear even some about Amazon prime. Sure, quite later but it's definitely happened.
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If you could give it a think but haven't seen anything that was completely produced by Netflix on another other channels. There are a number of licensed shows and co-produced shows which I have no doubt will go to other channels however that's not the argument that I am making.
assurdum
Banned
What means completely produced? Nothing is completely produced by Amazon and Netflix. Anyway it's not that my point. Different shows exclusive can appear on TV some year later, more or less, that's what MS could do if they want.
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Probably using the term 'produced' loosely but here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Netflix_original_programming
Again this isn't my point but if you want to let me know how many of the original Netflix shows was sold to a network for distribution, do let me know.
assurdum
Banned
Narcos was on a public TV in my country a couple of year later. Just to say.
You mind if I ask what country you are in?
assurdum
Banned
Italy
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Because PS has the larger fanbase and would bring in additional revenue if PS gamers are also able to purchase Bethesda games.
These companies are not driven by a group of console warriors.
Definitely seems to be an outlier, I know that Netflix sometimes tries to take account of some local laws but not got a clue why it is an outlier.
FrankWza
Member
We're all falling into the Netflix discussion. But you can buy Netflix shows on Blu-ray. That would be the equivalent, or as close to it as possible, as Msoft selling zeni PS5 games $69.99 and giving gp users the game day 1 as part of their subscription price.
icerock
Member
....and what has that got to do with my post which was meant to correct wrong figures being posted?
Once again, my original post about reading not being a strong suit is applicable to you.
A poster on here made a misinformed post, I corrected them. Read the posts and the context instead of just ranting because you got your feelings hurt.
assurdum
Banned
It's not even that my point. IMO for MS would be better replace Bethesda games later on ps5 at full price but honestly personally I can't care less. I find very stupid (again IMO) keep the exclusivity "forever" just for the sake of their fanbase but I don't know what's up in MS mind eh.
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The idea is "if you want to play Bethesda games, you need to buy into Microsoft's ecosystem." Same reason Microsoft hasn't put Halo on Playstation yet.
Genx3
Member
So why don't Sony and Nintendo release their games on other consoles?
Hint: Exclusives are important.
Doesn't matter what PS's fan base is. The Xbox, PC, Android, Streaming, IOS market is bigger than the PS market and MS earns more in 1 quarter than the entirety of Sony and Nintendo does in a year.
MS does not need the extra pennies from selling on PS and Nintendo consoles.
What MS needs is for people to get into their ecosystem where they make the whole profit on their games plus, XB live subs, plus Game Pass subs, plus 3rd party royalties.
In other words releasing games on other consoles is a very bad business decision for a 1st party studio.
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
In one sentence you've managed to lump PC, Xbox, Microsoft, Streaming, IOS and fucking Android all in one boat.
Be mindful when making comparisons you have to make like for like comparisons. Obviously MS as a whole makes more money than Sony does in a year. That is not up for debate and I don't see what this has to do with the conversation of putting games on competing platforms.
PSN alone made more money than Xbox and Nintendo combined. That is a fact. But that is besides the point.
If you've been following news recently you'd know that Xbox has shifted their strategy to broaden the reach of the platform and this includes making available games and services on as many platforms as possible. Obviously you will have select few games exclusive to the Xbox platform.
You have the Xbox CFO stating they want future Bethesda games to be 'first or best' on Xbox platform. That statement is not ruling out releasing on competing platforms hence my initial comment alluding to the fact that Sony and Nintendo may get future Bethesda releases.
Xbox is expanding into a services model so they want your hard earned $$$ and they will get it whether you game on PC, Android, IOS, Xbox or competing consoles. That is the aim of the game here. I won't be surprised if Sony follows suit in the years to come.
Yet again zenimax was for sale because it was not making much money. So your saying Microsoft spent 7.5 billion dollars to continue that failed model that made previous ownership sell. Because putting the games on ps5 only helps Sony sell consoles and keep a dominant position it does nothing to sell gamepass. Gamepass is almost all Xbox owners Microsoft needs new Xbox owners to expand gamepass. Putting games on the PS5 hurts Xbox sales. In turn hurting gamepass growth. This is not a mine craft situation were zenimax is printing money it is the opposite. They were desperate enough to put crap out like fall out 76 to keep profits in the black.
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
Why did the Xbox CFO state that they want future Bethesda games to be 'better or first' on Xbox platforms.
Look you guys can say what you like. Everyone has their opinion. Some Bethesda games are coming to PS and/or Nintendo. That's how I feel this deal will go. I have no clue which games but some of them will be released on both Xbox and competing platforms.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong but it's not too difficult to see the above being a possibility when the Bethesda deal is done.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Like Phil said, they no longer see Playstation as their primary competitor. They've just shifted focus to a wider market strategy where they see Gamepass as being their key offering, not the Xbox consoles specifically.
This is how you transition to a primarily digital model. They aren't going to give up on selling Xboxes, but, they no longer need Xboxes to be the top-selling hardware in order to turn a profit. Its the reality of basing your business performance based on MAU not units shifted.
This is how you transition to a primarily digital model. They aren't going to give up on selling Xboxes, but, they no longer need Xboxes to be the top-selling hardware in order to turn a profit. Its the reality of basing your business performance based on MAU not units shifted.