Teaser for the live action The Little Mermaid
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sol_bad
Member
Are you saying they should have only auditioned white girls with red hair?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I did not say that, but why would that be an issue?
I just find irony that statement is accepted now, when in the past, it was a "BS" excuse when in the other direction.
Full circle, and all that jazz.
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sol_bad
Member
I'm not sure what you are talking about. Hollywood have always held auditions and chosen who they thought was appropriate for the role. In some instances the studio will hunt down a specific actor for a specific role. Hollywood has changed a lot in the last 15 years though, for an extremely long time Hollywood was very white and minorities didn't have much of a chance of even getting a role.
Please don't throw 10 famous names at me from a 40 year time span to try and prove some point.
Batiman
Banned
This thread is embarrassing. Came into see why it's such a huge topic. People crying over a black women cast as a mermaid. Lol
Don't really care for the live action remakes besides jungle book. But I'll probably end up watching this sometime down the road. I know it was pretty shit but I honestly didn't mind Aladdin
Don't really care for the live action remakes besides jungle book. But I'll probably end up watching this sometime down the road. I know it was pretty shit but I honestly didn't mind Aladdin
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Toons
Member
Here's something else folklore, like made up, fictional, not real:
Depending on the context, those are also called "heroes"
By that definition Superman is a white knight lol
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Oh, I'm sure you'd have no problem with a movie based on african folklore having white or asian people. Black Panther is made, fictional, not real. Could have been played by an eskimo.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Pretty sure that Disney already decided that Ariel would not be white in the movie before a single audition.
Toons
Member
Covered this already lol.
Theres a story reason black panther is black.
There is zero reason Ariel has to be any race in particular.
Konnor
Member
There are plenty of white people in Africa!
sol_bad
Member
Funny thing is, if the actress was white but her tail was red, they probably wouldn't care.
Jaybe
Member
Ah yes, Superman/Clark Kent… an iconic white character… wouldn't you agree?
MGHA
Member
They can be a great people if they choose to be.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
And what story reason is that? That it takes place in Africa? Hey, it's fiction remember?
And this is where this "fiction" argument falls flat. Apparently it's only valid if the character being changed is white.
Toons
Member
Yes? I love superman. I also love spider man, Batman and Captain America(both of em)
My favorite DC superhero is Green Arrow, a white billionaire who fights for the little guy.
I only care about the content of the character, not their race.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
No. Superman doesn't help who don't need his help. Looks like you didn't read the definition right.
Toons
Member
The story reason is because his nation is based on a real time in African history and they isolated themselves from the rest of the world, there were no white people in their nation at any point, and there weren't really any other black people besides who specifically was born in wakanda.
Hes also black because his creators were trying to make a statement and a stance against subtle racism in the comics industry when they created him. He was not done as a fluke lol.
Ariel has NONE of that stuff.
No, its valid any time the characters story or history isn't based on any real setting and so can fluctuate.
That being said, there is also the fact that many minorities are under represented in film and movies, and so they are not on equal playing fields as some would suggest. Would you say a person in a wheelchair getting a head start in a race against someone with two legs was unfair for the person with legs?
Because of this, when a minorith character is made white(and this has happened a ton of times and still does) they are actually taking away a role that could have gone to a minority but didn't and this is usually for racist reasons., which is not equivalent when the opposite takes place. Theres no shortage of white characters in popular media, after all. That doesnt mean that any white chatacter being cast as white is a bad thing either.
Many studios have a history of not wanting to fund movies that feature minorities prominently. Ridley Scott couldn't get funding to make a movie about Moses unless they cast the white British guy Christian bale. He went on record to state this is why he didn't cast Hebrew actors or Egyptians.
One of the higher uos at marvel, Ike Perlmutter almost prevented black panther from being made because he explicitly didn't think movies with minority leads made money.
If you do research you'll find plenty of similar stories. So when you see a white person playing a minority role, it's probably because of racist tradition in Hollywood. When you see a black person playing a role that maybe could he white but doesn't have to be, its not the same. If a person is in a role where race is incidental, and the best person for that role happens to be a minority, it would be pretty messed up to not hire them just because of their skin color.
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NoLootBoxDev
Member
I understand people who wanted something more according to the source material.
Is this bad? No.
Is it bad because she is black? No.
Is the movie going to flop? Most likely.
Is her hair terrible? Yes, it is. (My humble opinion)
Is Disney pissing off the majority of their fans with this? Yes.
The only movie I watched from the new remakes is "Aladdin", because my wife wanted to see it, and it wasn't that good.
Dumbo, Cruella, Pinocchio, Lion King, Beast and Beauty, Mulan, Pete's Dragon, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, and Jungle Book, I have not seen any of them. This one looks even less interesting to me (not for the casting).
This is a business, they can do whatever they want, and yes that includes screwing up the casting, and changing the sexual orientation of characters as they please (Generally speaking). Also, Disney should be able to understand that it will bite them in the ass because most people will complain and it is their right to do so.
In my case, my brother is the one who pays Disney+ every now and then, so I really do not pay a cent to watch any of those movies, I could not pay a cent to see them and even less in the cinema. Marvel movies are the ones I watch but they have gone downhill since "EndGame", won't talk about the Marvel series, because I have not seen any of those either.
If they wanted to make a Mermaid movie, they could have made a new (story, setting, characters) movie, instead of this, and "maybe" create a hit instead of a possible financial flop, since they are pissing off people.
TLDR: You are a lazy person, learn to read.
Is this bad? No.
Is it bad because she is black? No.
Is the movie going to flop? Most likely.
Is her hair terrible? Yes, it is. (My humble opinion)
Is Disney pissing off the majority of their fans with this? Yes.
The only movie I watched from the new remakes is "Aladdin", because my wife wanted to see it, and it wasn't that good.
Dumbo, Cruella, Pinocchio, Lion King, Beast and Beauty, Mulan, Pete's Dragon, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, and Jungle Book, I have not seen any of them. This one looks even less interesting to me (not for the casting).
This is a business, they can do whatever they want, and yes that includes screwing up the casting, and changing the sexual orientation of characters as they please (Generally speaking). Also, Disney should be able to understand that it will bite them in the ass because most people will complain and it is their right to do so.
In my case, my brother is the one who pays Disney+ every now and then, so I really do not pay a cent to watch any of those movies, I could not pay a cent to see them and even less in the cinema. Marvel movies are the ones I watch but they have gone downhill since "EndGame", won't talk about the Marvel series, because I have not seen any of those either.
If they wanted to make a Mermaid movie, they could have made a new (story, setting, characters) movie, instead of this, and "maybe" create a hit instead of a possible financial flop, since they are pissing off people.
TLDR: You are a lazy person, learn to read.
Trazyn the Infinite
Member
LegendOfKage
Member
I think most people just see woke as the secular left version of the religious right morality police. Sometimes their actions even have the same result but for different intentions. Obviously not all people on the left or right are intolerant jerks who want the world sanitized of anything that offends them, but I can understand the usefulness of having words or terms that describe that sort of behavior from both groups, and even people who don't identify with either. If you don't like that word, which I admit can be both overused and misapplied, what would you suggest as a replacement?
As for this particular casting situation, I think a good equivalent that doesn't include the aspect of race would be the casting for the Uncharted movie. Two actors that look nothing like the established character they're supposed to be. Lots of people were not happy about those choices due to not fitting with the esthetics of an established character, but Mark Walberg isn't black, so people who didn't like that casting didn't get called racists.
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
From what we've seen with The Rings of Power, the intent of the author shouldn't matter so whatever message the BP creators were making can be dismissed. Also, Wakanda is still fictional, right? So there shouldn't be any problem switching BP to an asian character. Since it's fictional, his fictional biography could involve asians migrating to a secret location in the olden days and closing themselves off to the world.
As for minorities being shut off from roles, what year do you think this is? There's way more cases of white characters being changed to "minority" races than the reverse. Just about any popular fictional white character has been changed to black these days. They've making a black superman afterall. Also, I wish I could find that study again but black people are overrepresented in the media.
Toons
Member
But then it wouldn't be black panthers story.
If you have to change the story to make your argument, well then that's not what I'm talking about lol. You'd have to completely change the story for that to happen. That's the point. You dont have to change anything about Ariels story for her to be another race, because her race is incidental to her character.
Haven't seen nor do I care about rings of power so you'll have to go to someone else for that discussion but using any example to justify your stance by its opposite extreme isnt really much of a stance at all anyways.
You.... didn't read anything i typed.
Toons
Member
I usually just say extremist left, but I dont generally like to use blanket terms for what are actually individual circumstances. It's gone to the point we had people calling that awesome prey movie woke, when it was not extremist or particularly "left" at all. It was a solid movie. People have conditioned themselves to only see it through this lens, and to see EVERYTHING through that lens. It hampers discussion.
Well the movie version was supposed to be a younger version anyway, but like.... if you had a perfect representation of sully on the screen but he had blonde hair would that be too much too? People accept changes in adaptations all the time of popular works, especially cosmetic ones. No one is going to seriously argue that comissioner Gordon should wear 30s clothing and use outdated fashion and dialogue just because the original had that. They'd expect him to be updated to fit modern sensibilities and standards. If we can collectively accept cosmetic changes like that without batting an eye, why does the buck stop at a characters race if it doesn't change the story?
If RDJ had blonde hair, would you say he wss all of a sudden unfit for Iron Man because in the comics his hair is dark brown?
Goalus
Member
The source material doesn't really matter because the movie cast should reflect what the real world actually looks like. How can I as a white person relate to any of the characters if none of them have my skin color?
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
LegendOfKage
Member
For me, yes it would, unless there's a good reason for it. Same if Ariel was being depicted as a white blond mermaid with a red fin (to use an example from someone else in the thread). Why do that? Fans generally like characters as they are, and messing with appearance can be divisive.
I'd say that's just it. The buck doesn't stop at race. I liked a lot about the new batman movie, but I didn't like emo Bruce Wane in both his look and his actions. You do have a good point about taking dated aspects of a character and modernizing them. This is all subjective, but I would say that's a good reason to make changes to a character. You might do so if something about their design would feel awkward in present day media.
As an example, take Wolverine. If he was in recent movies with the yellow and blue bodysuit from his debut comic appearances, that would look a little silly. But I also wouldn't want a bald Wolverine or Professor X with a mohawk. As a general rule, the closer you stick to the source material, the happier you'll make established fans.
That why I think Miles Morales was such a smart way to bring more diversity into the world of Spider-Man. Because he's not black peter parker, he's his own character with his own story.
When wigs and hair dye exists, I'd say the problem wouldn't be RDJ, it would be whoever decided to make him a blond.
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Lukaku's First Touch
Member
white kid reaction be like:
jk
Completely fake and rehearsed.
Azurro
Banned
It is a fictional story, you can always say that there were white people in Africa. Or Latino people. Yeah, why can't Black Panther be played by a Latino?
Ariel is Danish folklore, black people have no right to play Ariel, only Danish people can. It's cultural appropriation.
All your arguments can be used against you, you just weaponize the shame of people to not want to be called racists.
I find it really ironic how you criticize everyone about caring about this when the one that cares the most here is you.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
That's interesting because I dont think anyone knows Ariel is a Danish creation. I had to google the origin. I just assumed it was some Disney creation.
Funny thing is you'll just get a counter argument saying there's Black people in Denmark too, so Ariel doesn't have to stay white forever even though historically the character is a white girl with red hair.
sol_bad
Member
None of Disney's old animated films were original creations until The Lion King was released.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Source?
Or are you just pulling assumptions out of thin air based on your own biases and prejudices?
T'challa's race is a key part of his character and his backstory. You cannot seprate the two of them. The color of his skin and the history of his people are defining to who he is as a person and as a protector of his people. Ariel's skin color meanwhile is not a key part of her character. It does not define her in any way seeing as she is a fictional creature from a fictional kingdom under the sea.
She can be from anywhere and it changes literally nothing about her as a character or her story unless you think "white ginger girl" is a defining characteristic and a key part of the story?
Meanwhile changing the race of T'challa would fundamentally change who he is as a character and a king.
TLDR; You're argument is ignorant and poorly thought out.
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Azurro
Banned
You didn't see that video of that lady in Disney leadership talking about her "not so secret diversity agenda"? Of course it was decided that way.
Apparently also the story was changed so that she doesn't go to the surface "for a man". That is just changing the story to spread "THE MESSAGE".
You can absolutely change his race, you can make him to be part of a tribe of egyptians, or Algerians, or even Turks. You can switch the entire backstory, it's a fictional story afterall, why do you care? You are so racist.
People like the original character and changing it just so that you don't see a white character is racist.
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Azurro
Banned
I'm debating honestly, I'm just using your arguments against you. Afterall, your arguments are always to gaslight people and tell us nothing is going on.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
You argued that changing the race of a black character who is the king of a country in Africa is no big deal despite the obvious fact that it is a key part of his character. A character whose origin story and drive is tied directly to him and his people being black. He is also the king of a black African Kingdom that has been isolated from the rest of the world for centuries and you ignorantly argue that they could easily be changed to "Egyptian" or "Algerian" and then you tried to call me a "racist" for calling out how completely ignorant that argument is. On top of all of that nonsense you tried to compare those changes to changing the skin color of a fictional mermaid from a fictional kingdom. A character whose racial origins is NOT a key part of her character no matter how hard you try to interpret the original material.
If that is you being "honest" in your opinion then you are a lost cause to me, but you and I both know that you aren't actually being honest. You know what you are doing. So does anyone seeing the argument you are trying and failing to make. If you really think no one can see that then I would love to sell you a bridge my guy lol
If you want to debate honestly then I am down for it, but don't pretend to be stupid and then expect me to take you seriously when you try to make such ridiculous limp wristed arguments.
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AfricanKing
Banned
Lets be honest .. the vast majority of Disney fans dont give a shit about the race of a character
Harlock
Member
funkygunther
Banned
One more thing to add and I'm not sure about the comics but the Black Panther movie is as much about and for African Americans living now than it is just about some fictional African kingdom. The whole movie is drawing parallels between slaves and the descendents of slaves, black people who were dehumanised and oppressed by the colonies, and the fictional "utopia" of Wakanda. It deliberately ties the real world with its fantasy,. The whole premise is based on the actual historical treatment of black people, particularly in the USA.
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RoboFu
One of the green rats
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Damn so we are really going to do this every single time Disney makes a new movie?
If that's the case then I may just exercise the ignore button just to save myself the headache.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Why fucking not?? The original beloved character is white with red hairs, isn't she? You cast people that at least vaguely resemble the role, or at least this was the modus operandi before the swapping race became a thing.
Do you think there was any white dude for the casting of black panther?
The whole point of a live action is to see real actors that look like the imaginary characters, there is no fucking point in changing the race and havong a chick that doesn't look at all like Ariel, AT ALL.
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Stuart360
Member
The ironic thing is that if the last 10 years of SJW/Woke nonsense, checklist culture, etc, had never happened, people would look at this treaser and be like 'A black woman, thats a little strange after the orig was a white mermaid, but whatever'. But because the last 10 years of nonsense has happened, it causes this conflict.
Its why i often say on here that SJW's will actually do more harm than good for their 'cause' long term.
Its why i often say on here that SJW's will actually do more harm than good for their 'cause' long term.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Like clockwork lol
GymWolf
Gold Member
Ah yes, the real people of the real place called wakanda need to be black, i forgot that.
Also forgot that there is no white dude in africa but there are a lof of black dudes where the original mermaid story comes from.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Dude look through this page and read the posts that I've already made explaining why the argument of black panther versus The Little mermaid is completely and utterly ridiculous.
If you are going to comment on the thread the least you can do is read the page of the thread that you are posting in at bare minimum lol
Also just for the record you trying to flippantly say that the people of the isolated African country of Wakanda don't need to be black might be the funniest fucking thing that I've read on this forum in weeks. Fucking cackling basically while I'm riding to work.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Nothing wrong with having black protagonists.
That said, if you want to put a black person on screen, make sure the original character is also black beacuse if not, you'll look like a virtue signaling fuck that's probably just doing it just for marketing purposes.
That said, if you want to put a black person on screen, make sure the original character is also black beacuse if not, you'll look like a virtue signaling fuck that's probably just doing it just for marketing purposes.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Disney's Snow White was never modeled after an Bavarian lol.
like Ariel she was models after two women. The voice actress and the body model.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The Little Mermaid was originally written in 1836 when black people were still considered property in some parts of the world. There is no need to adhere to that original portrayal unless the race of the character is a key point of who they are and what they represent.
Ariel being white and ginger is not an essential part of her character. It does not affect who she is or what she stands for as a character. At no point does her skin color play a key part of her story or her character arc.
Edit: leaving it there for now. I'll come back to this later when I am not distracted.
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