Support NeoGAF

[funkygunther]

Mistreated, hard working and exploited are all subjective.

Musk changing an employee's contract in an email, giving a day to accept new terms, and if not laying them off did not happen to his EU staff because their employment rights protect them from this type of mistreatment and exploitation. So while yes, words are subjective some are much more subjective than others.

 

[Tams]

Well, that poll Musk posted...

womp

 

[Toons]

I'll never understand why some americans are obsessed with the idea that people who work for a living are supposed to live essentially enslaved to the masters who pay their wage.

The constant hammering against workers rights and living conditions in this thread make me sick, the incessable guffaw at workers that happened to land a job with nice quality of life losing that quality of life, the nagging at companies that treat well their workers.

Isnt it just propaganda the rich fed to the working class around the time of Gen Y?

 

[strange headache]

To all the "lol" bros in this thread.

 

[strange headache]

I'll never understand why some americans are obsessed with the idea that people who work for a living are supposed to live essentially enslaved to the masters who pay their wage.

The constant hammering against workers rights and living conditions in this thread make me sick, the incessable guffaw at workers that happened to land a job with nice quality of life losing that quality of life, the nagging at companies that treat well their workers.

It's not just the ignorant assault on workers rights. It's the glorification of workers that purposely allow themselves to be mistreated. They are "hardcore" and "hard workers". They are "better" than those who want better for themselves and from their employers. When in reality they are just exploited and have deluded themselves into believing otherwise in order to cope with their circumstances or their jealousy of others who are in a better position.

So we've thrown all nuance over board it seems. There's a difference between exploiting workers and expecting results. Being a hard worker was once considered a positive trait. If you find meaning in what you do, working can be immensely fulfilling.
Literally nobody in this thread is saying that Twitter workers should be exploited, but great work conditions require a great work attitude.

There is nothing wrong with expecting commitment from your staff as there needs to be a healthy work-life balance .Coddling your employees is just as bad as exploiting them. Here in the EU we have much stricter worker protection laws, but our work conditions are nowhere as coddled as the ones in silicon valley. The steeply growing tech market is only reason that these lax working conditions were tenable in the first place, but in no industry economic growth lasts forever.

Speak for yourselves, but I'm proud of my work and I like to work a lot. The only jealousy at play here are the people who begrudge others for doing so.

I don't think any of the above is true. It may not have needed 7,500 - but I don't think anyone knows what the right number is trying to guess with tales from my ass either

Oh so we don't know, but we know for sure that Musk is wrong for firing them. Makes sense...
As with most institutions and companies, administrative bloat is a real problem.

 

[funkygunther]

Here in the EU we have much stricter worker protection laws, but our work conditions are nowhere as coddled as the ones in silicon valley.

California is an at-will employment state. You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[strange headache]

California is an at-will employment state. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Exactly, that would never fly here in EU as worker protection laws forbid to terminate the employment relationship at any time, with or without cause.
Work conditions is not worker rights.

 

[funkygunther]

Exactly, that would never fly here in EU as worker protection laws forbid to terminate the employment relationship at any time, with or without cause.
Work conditions is not worker rights.

Then work conditions depend and vary wildly on the company and have nothing to do with EU or silicon valley.

 

[strange headache]

Then work conditions depend and vary wildly on the company and have nothing to do with EU or silicon valley.

Work conditions is not worker rights, I'm talking about the the extremely lax office attitude that silicon valley companies are fostering. That sh*t would never fly here.
Hence why I've said that EU legal regulations are much stricter than in the US, but office culture is still stricter in the EU than in California. Office culture and regulation are two different things.

Also before you accuse others of "not knowing what they are talking about", maybe actually read the comment next time. This must be another example of "ad hominems" that are somehow allowed in this thread.

 

[funkygunther]

Work conditions is not worker rights, I'm talking about the the extremely lax office attitude that silicon valley companies are fostering. That sh*t would never fly here.
Hence why I've said that EU legal regulations are much stricter than in the US, but office culture is still stricter in the EU than in California.

Also before you accuse others of "not knowing what they are talking about", maybe actually read the comment next time.

You're the one not reading. If you dont mean work conditions to mean employment law then what you're talking about is work culture, which I said, and i will repeat, depends and varies wildly on the company and has nothing to do with EU or silicon valley.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

This is a pretty ridiculous post. We simply dont know why 7,500 were hired other than for the fact that they were needed. Ive been part of interview processes and we dont waste our precious time interviewing engineers who we dont need.

It's not like corporations can ever be bloated, right?

 

[strange headache]

You're the one not reading. If you dont mean work conditions to mean employment law then what you're talking about is work culture, which I said, and i will repeat, depends and varies wildly on the company and has nothing to do with EU or silicon valley.

Again...

My whole point is that silicon valley work culture is much MUCH more lenient than in most other places of the world due to its economic boom that will not last forever. This stands in stark contrast with workers laws who outright suck in the US compared to the EU. It stands to reason that the extremely lax work culture in silicon valley isn't sustainable.

So not everybody who is critical of that laissez-faire work attitude is arguing for the exploitation of workers. That is just a dumb strawman to derail from the actual argument at hand.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So we've thrown all nuance over board it seems. There's a difference between exploiting workers and expecting results. Being a hard worker was once considered a positive trait. If you find meaning in what you do, working can be immensely fulfilling.
Literally nobody in this thread is saying that Twitter workers should be exploited, but great work conditions require a great work attitude.

There is nothing wrong with expecting commitment from your staff as there needs to be a healthy work-life balance .Coddling your employees is just as bad as exploiting them. Here in the EU we have much stricter worker protection laws, but our work conditions are nowhere as coddled as the ones in silicon valley. The steeply growing tech market is only reason that these lax working conditions were tenable in the first place, but in no industry economic growth lasts forever.

Speak for yourselves, but I'm proud of my work and I like to work a lot. The only jealousy at play here are the people who begrudge others for doing so.

I find it weird that you are cheering what Musk is doing to Twitter employees in america while under the umbrella of EU work laws that means your boss can't do to you what Musk is doing to Twitter employees in America.

 

[funkygunther]

Again...

My whole point is that silicon valley work culture is much MUCH more lenient than in most other places of the world due to its economic boom that will not last forever. This stands in stark contrast with workers laws who outright suck in the US compared to the EU. It stands to reason that the extremely lax work culture in silicon valley isn't sustainable.

So not everybody who is critical of that laissez-faire work attitude is arguing for the exploitation of workers. That is just a dumb strawman to derail from the actual argument at hand.

you don't have an actual argument beyond thinking people you don't like have bad attitudes and are spoiled babies

work culture depends on the company, what you call "leniency" most people would call worker benefits and Google Mountain View has an almost identical work culture to Google London...if you don't think it's dependent on company or maybe even sector then you haven't experienced the "leniency" afforded to white collar employees of telecoms corporations or civil servants working at government departments

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

My whole point is that silicon valley work culture is much MUCH more lenient than in most other places

So what?

Good for them.

 

[strange headache]

I find it weird that you are cheering what Musk is doing to Twitter employees in america while under the umbrella of EU work laws that means your boss can't do to you what Musk is doing to Twitter employees in America.

First, Twitter was already planning to lay of half of its workforce due to financial reasons BEFORE Musk took over.
Second, there is plenty of evidence that lots of employees were fired for actively working against their employer even going so far as sabotaging the company.
Third, publicly badmouthing your employer, damaging a company's reputation and insubordination are terminable causes also here in the EU.

So what?

Good for them.

Read again, it's not a tenable situation.

 

[LegendOfKage]

To all the "lol" bros in this thread.

It would seem that Musk is considering going all Blizzard style "don't you guys have phones" on Twitter. The mistake Jack is talking about is someone else suggesting that Twitter should not allow anonymous accounts. That's even clearer when you look at the full twitter thread.

 

[strange headache]

And yes, I have little empathy for a company that practically reintroduced modern day ostracism into society and is responsible for enabling the ruination of thousands of lives in the court of public opinion.

 

[MisterFalcon]

First, Twitter was already planning to lay of half of its workforce due to financial reasons BEFORE Musk took over.
Second, there is plenty of evidence that lots of employees were fired for actively working against their employer even going so far as sabotaging the company.

Time will tell who is most actively sabotaging the company, Musk or the employees who try to stop him.

 

[strange headache]

Time will tell who is most actively sabotaging the company, Musk or the employees who try to stop him.

Worse than the vast majority of twitter already being absolutely fake?





Twitter has been enabling this for years!
No matter what Elon does, destroying Twitter or changing it, everything will be better than what it is now.

 

[pramod]

You're "entitled" if you don't want to work long hours in a toxic work environment?

What? lol

Well, yeah, I guess if you go by the typical leftist definition of "toxic", ie having to just obey your boss and shelve your own political beliefs.
Anyways, these "mistreated" engineers at Twitter probably make 400k+ a year on average. That's around how much doctors make, and doctors have to work much harder and much longer hours.

So maybe "entitled" is not the right word here. I'm not sure what the right word is, maybe hubris? A normal person wouldn't be quitting a 400k job just because they hate Elon and don't want to "work hard".
They are only quitting because they believe (either rightly or wrongly) that they can easily find another job at Google/Meta/Apple/etc that can pay just as well and not have to deal with Elon.
Will they be able to do that in this economy? It will be interesting to see in the coming weeks/months.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Worse than the vast majority of twitter already being absolutely fake?





Twitter has been enabling this for years!
No matter what Elon does, destroying Twitter or changing it, everything will be better than what it is now.

Or as argued in the Upper Echelon video (great video btw, I saw it earlier), Twitter won't be doing anything to genuinely stop any of this, because the bots ARE twitter. I can't help but notice that Musk hasn't been talking about counting or removing bots very much anymore ever since acquiring twitter. If the bots all go away, so does the illusion of Twitter being a massively populated social media site. It's likely why Musk has stopped talking about removing bots, and started talking about elevating subscribers.

While it has some of the same effect, it's not the same, and puts a very real subscription price on what until recently was claimed to be free speech. These details of hypocrisy are what I find to be most interesting about all of this. Even if Musk ends up being a more egalitarian ruler overall, he will still be going against his previous claims to various degrees.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

First, Twitter was already planning to lay of half of its workforce due to financial reasons BEFORE Musk took over.
Second, there is plenty of evidence that lots of employees were fired for actively working against their employer even going so far as sabotaging the company.
Third, publicly badmouthing your employer, damaging a company's reputation and insubordination are terminable causes also here in the EU.

Read again, it's not a tenable situation.

That doesn't answer why you're cheering on that tho.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

I don't think I've ever seen such an apt username before.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Musk knows how to get headlines and he revels in the spotlight. I'm almost certain there are a few agendas behind the polls. I was wondering if bots would be one, and it seems maybe so. I still do think he had his mind made up about the answer prior to the poll.

 

[FunkMiller]

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot!" - every single far left or right winger on Twitter.

Old Muskie playing them like a fiddle.

 

[strange headache]

I don't think I've ever seen such an apt username before.

Ah this must be some of that quality non-judgmental content that GAF is looking for.

That doesn't answer why you're cheering on that tho.

Was the bolded part not obvious enough?

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Ah this must be some of that quality adhom free content that GAF is looking.

You're derailing the thread to argue irrelevant points and refusing to drop it

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Was the bolded part not obvious enough?

No, you're dodging.

I ask why you cheer workers getting fired and the ones who remain losing quality of life.

Your answer why it is happening (economic reasons).

I still haven't heard why you cheer while it happens.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

 

[Maiden Voyage]

If Elon goes back on SNL, he has to play Bates in a skit.

 

[funkygunther]

"Everyone who disagrees with me is a bot!" - every single far left or right winger on Twitter.

Old Muskie playing them like a fiddle.

Musk: I love bots now!

 

[strange headache]

You're derailing the thread to argue irrelevant points and refusing to drop it

I've been talking about nothing else than Twitter and Musk's managerial decisions while replying to people quoting my posts.
But somehow that gives you the right to barge in an throw around personal attacks, because you don't like my position

No, you're dodging.

Well at this point that's just like your opinion. Also I'm not cheering people being fired. Even for those who deserve it that's a tragedy. I am explaining why I think some of Musk's terminations were probably necessary. Big difference!
I've explained this numerous times now but somehow you keep parading around this gotcha while refusing to actually read my comments.

Let's just agree to disagree, otherwise I'll be accused of "derailing" the thread while others keep dogpiling me.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[FunkMiller]

Seems to me that prior to Musk purchasing Twitter, it was run by a bunch of asshats.

Musk is also an asshat, but of a different stripe.

So now we have different types of asshats fighting one another for the control of asshat central.

All we can really hope for is that it goes on for a long time, and ends terribly for every asshat involved.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

[strange headache]

I'm terribly sorry for having a discussion. If it's too much for you, just keep to your regular sh*tposting regime.

Seems to me that prior to Musk purchasing Twitter, it was run by a bunch of asshats.

Musk is also an asshat, but of a different stripe.

So now we have different types of asshats fighting one another for the control of asshat central.

All we can really hope for is that it goes on for a long time, and ends terribly for every asshat involved.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

Pretty much this!
With the exception that I think Musk is a slightly lesser asshat for at least trying to dismantle the social media witchunt platform constructed by his predecessors.

I don't think the Twitter devs were complicit in enabling this culture of public persecution, why should I feel sorry for them now?

 

[FunkMiller]

Pretty much this!
With the exception that I think Musk is a slightly lesser asshat for at least trying to dismantle the social media witchunt platform constructed by his predecessors.

I don't think the Twitter devs were complicit in enabling this culture of public persecution, why should I feel sorry for them now?

Eh, I'm afraid I'm in the 'a pox on both your houses' state of mind at this point. All as bad as one another, albeit in differing ways.

I have no desire to see the actual people who do the work at Twitter suffer through all of this, but the people at the top? Yeah, they created the monster, so I have zero sympathy for their discomfiture at what is happening now.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

 

[diffusionx]

Lost in all this caterwauling is the fact that Twitter was generally understood to be a horribly run business in bad need of a shakeup before Elon ever set foot there. I really feel like this needs to be sentence 1 of any discussion about Twitter.

Elon comes from a company that builds stuff and he's clearly trying to establish a more old-school/blue-collar ethos in the company and people are rebelling. I am sure that many of them think they could easily move to another job with twitter on the resume, well everybody is shedding staff and freezing hiring. I am also sure that the other tech companies are looking at this closely and if Elon is successful I think they are far more likely to adopt his approach and cut back on the exorbitance as things head into a downturn.

Seems to me that prior to Musk purchasing Twitter, it was run by a bunch of asshats.

Musk is also an asshat, but of a different stripe.

So now we have different types of asshats fighting one another for the control of asshat central.

All we can really hope for is that it goes on for a long time, and ends terribly for every asshat involved.

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

Well, there is no fight for control, as Elon is objectively the one in charge.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

Peterson going HAM on Twitter. That man had some pent up frustration...

 

[strange headache]

Eh, I'm afraid I'm in the 'a pox on both your houses' state of mind at this point. All as bad as one another, albeit in differing ways.

I have no desire to see the actual people who do the work at Twitter suffer through all of this, but the people at the top? Yeah, they created the monster, so I have zero sympathy for their discomfiture at what is happening now.

Fair enough, but I think many of the militant grunts being fired enabled the people at the top.

For example:

 

[Kraz]

Someone pooped in it

He looks comfortable in that diverse group. Maybe the Puma hat put him at ease. Difficult to tell if it's as suggested Thursday that those that stayed have their employment tied to their residential status in the US.

Twitter itself is stuttering a lot for me this morning. Only a couple times yesterday. Today have already had more not returned on the first attempt.

 

[strange headache]

What a farce.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

What a farce.

Major PR and ad firms are recommending their customers to freeze twitter activity until things clear up.

It's not a farce, it's what happens.

 

[Kraz]

What a farce.

That they can choose not to use a web app or the reporting on it?

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Peterson going HAM on Twitter. That man had some pent up frustration...

 

[BadBurger]

It makes sense that the people who support Musk are also Peterson fans. Jesus fuck how sad.

Anyways, my friend who was fired from Twitter already has a job offer from a SF area biotech company. It seems all of the Twitter employees leaving or being fired are getting greedily gobbled up by other companies as fast as possible. And rightfully so.