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[IFireflyl]

Really? Surely they wouldn't say something so easily verifiable! Who did they say they are using then? Google?

They didn't say what powers it, but it's a lie anyway as their own website says that xCloud uses Azure. The exact quote Microsoft used when responding to the CMA was, "Microsoft believes the CMA's concerns here are flawed as currently Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming service does not use Azure, and does not stream games from PC hardware."

 

[IFireflyl]

Ya'll know that Sony uses Azure today right?
https://www.windowscentral.com/sony...d-cloud-service-will-be-playstation-exclusive

You know that this isn't relevant, right?

 

[Topher]

Really? Surely they wouldn't say something so easily verifiable! Who did they say they are using then? Google?

Well, either Microsoft is lying to regulators or engaging in widespread false advertising. Not a good look regardless.

Ya'll know that Sony uses Azure today right?
https://www.windowscentral.com/sony...d-cloud-service-will-be-playstation-exclusive

What's your point?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Really? Surely they wouldn't say something so easily verifiable! Who did they say they are using then? Google?

The argument is that Xbox games run on Xbox hardware in the cloud, not azure. They are now trying to separate the two, defending the position that they aren’t the same, even though one doesn’t work without the other and MS has themselves boasted about Xcloud’s advantage being azure.

We had Phil Spencer telling the public these other companies are out of position because MS has spent unbelievable amount of resources on creating the Azure infrastructure and now they are trying to walk it back.

I don’t even understand how they have the gal to go that way, they keep trying to pin regulators as fools.

They could just go out there and splash money on GP and Xcloud deals but they are backing themselves into a corner because they don’t want to leave the door open for another competitor, be it Sony or Amazon or Apple, to compete for license rights.

 

[Hendrick's]

Well, either Microsoft is lying to regulators or engaging in widespread false advertising. Not a good look regardless.

I think it's lawyer speak and semantics. xCloud does not use Azure server blades, but the technology behind its operation is certainly the same. Legally, they can get away with claiming it's different likely.

 

[knocksky]

The argument is that Xbox games run on Xbox hardware in the cloud, not azure. They are now trying to separate the two, defending the position that they aren’t the same, even though one doesn’t work without the other and MS has themselves boasted about Xcloud’s advantage being azure.

We had Phil Spencer telling the public these other companies are out of position because MS has spent unbelievable amount of resources on creating the Azure infrastructure and now they are trying to walk it back.

I don’t even understand how they have the gal to go that way, they keep trying to pin regulators as fools.

They could just go out there and splash money on GP and Xcloud deals but they are backing themselves into a corner because they don’t want to leave the door open for another competitor, be it Sony or Amazon or Apple, to compete for license rights.

Okay that's what I thought that they might have said. About it not being on pc hardware.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Really? Surely they wouldn't say something so easily verifiable! Who did they say they are using then? Google?

 

[gothmog]

I think it's lawyer speak and semantics. xCloud does not use Azure server blades, but the technology behind its operation is certainly the same. Legally, they can get away with claiming it's different likely.

Luckily regulators can see through the word salad lawyers throw in front of them.

 

[knocksky]

I think it's lawyer speak and semantics. xCloud does not use Azure server blades, but the technology behind its operation is certainly the same. Legally, they can get away with claiming it's different likely.

Or just claim that it is just another datacenter, just powered by Xboxs.

Like the old XMCC servers that I used to play rainbow 6 on with the og Xbox lol

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ya'll know that Sony uses Azure today right?
https://www.windowscentral.com/sony...d-cloud-service-will-be-playstation-exclusive

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Ya'll know that Sony uses Azure today right?
https://www.windowscentral.com/sony...d-cloud-service-will-be-playstation-exclusive

Read the article you posted, its not clear if Sony uses Azure yet, they are still debating if Sony will use Azure ore another Cloud solution.

 

[knocksky]

Yeah something so easily verifiable. So perhaps there is a way in which they can sneakily but most importantly legally say that they are not using azure.

Who knows? Certainly nobody on here and at the end of the day, it ain't gonna be a forum post on gaf that decides the deal. The CMA already has lol

 

[Topher]

I think it's lawyer speak and semantics. xCloud does not use Azure server blades, but the technology behind its operation is certainly the same. Legally, they can get away with claiming it's different likely.

I'm not sure there is anything illegal about making a false claim to regulators. And like IFireflyl said, this sort of thing is almost expected.

I do wonder why twitter warriors such as Jez Corden are not calling out these discrepancies as a journalist with integrity would do*.



*Actually, I think I answered my own question.

Or just claim that it is just another datacenter, just powered by Xboxs.

Like the old XMCC servers that I used to play rainbow 6 on with the og Xbox lol

Problem is Microsoft has "Project xCloud - Powered by Azure" plastered all over the place. They even brag: "more than any other cloud provider". Sometimes a lie is just a lie.

Project xCloud

Put your game in front of more gamers, on more devices using Xbox Game Streaming

developer.microsoft.com

 

[Mr Moose]

Or just claim that it is just another datacenter, just powered by Xboxs.

Like the old XMCC servers that I used to play rainbow 6 on with the og Xbox lol

Xbox use Windows OS so either way they are full of shit.

 

[X-Wing]

Xbox use Windows OS so either way they are full of shit.

Azure runs on Linux.

 

[analog_future]

So this shit's almost over, right? One way or the other? I haven't been following closely enough to know.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So this shit's almost over, right? One way or the other? I haven't been following closely enough to know.

This could still go on for a very long time if Microsoft doesn't just drop the deal.

 

[Mr Moose]

Azure runs on Linux.

Xbox Series Xs don't though, or do their server Xboxs not use Windows?

Xbox Cloud Gaming is now fully powered by faster Xbox Series X hardware

The Xbox hardware upgrade improves load times and performance.

www.theverge.com

 

[knocksky]

Xbox use Windows OS so either way they are full of shit.

Of course it's bullshit. I am just surprised that they would try something like that

 

[Iced Arcade]

So this shit's almost over, right? One way or the other? I haven't been following closely enough to know.

Naw, still lots of flip-flops to be had.

right now you are on chapter cloud

 

[Topher]

Azure runs on Linux.

How so? I was under the impression Azure ran on Windows hypervisor technology.

 

[reksveks]

Azure is an generic term for their cloud solution (much like AWS), you need to also disconnect the hardware (some of which will be custom and some/most will be generic) and software layers. Some of the services especially in built ones will be running off one of many versions of Linux (including their 'own') and some will be running off Windows

 

[MasterCornholio]

Of course it's bullshit. I am just surprised that they would try something like that

That's all that I can think of. If the CMA, EC and FTC approved the deal without any concessions, I doubt they would be doing this.

 

[X-Wing]

Xbox Series Xs don't though, or do their server Xboxs not use Windows?

Xbox Cloud Gaming is now fully powered by faster Xbox Series X hardware

The Xbox hardware upgrade improves load times and performance.

www.theverge.com

I mean… I think the confusion here comes from lack of understanding of how the datacenters are structured. It’s not like they have a bunch of Xboxes connected to a switch and router and that that is just being directly accessed by millions of people… the games may be running on Xboxes but other layers necessary for the service surely aren’t…

 

[analog_future]

This could still go on for a very long time if Microsoft doesn't just drop the deal.

 

[X-Wing]

How so? I was under the impression Azure ran on Windows hypervisor technology.

Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

Linux rules all the clouds now, including Microsoft's own Azure.

www.zdnet.com

Yes Microsoft Azure Does Run On Linux: Exploring The Benefits For Businesses – Systran Box

www.systranbox.com

 

[Topher]

Microsoft developer reveals Linux is now more used on Azure than Windows Server

Linux rules all the clouds now, including Microsoft's own Azure.

www.zdnet.com

That is talking about virtual machines. That is not what Azure "runs on".

 

[MasterCornholio]

All depends on how hard they want to fight for this.

 

[X-Wing]

That is talking about virtual machines. That is not what Azure "runs on".

See added article to my post.

 

[reksveks]

Xbox Game Streaming vs. Xbox Remote Play - Microsoft Game Development Kit

Describes the differences between game streaming environments.

learn.microsoft.com

When using Xbox Game Streaming (aka xCloud), your game runs on an Xbox server in an Azure datacenter.

Added what's in the brackets.

This is pedantic stuff but this is what the disconnect comes down to re: Xbox vs Azure.

 

[reksveks]

http://[URL]https://www.zdnet.com/a...s-now-more-used-on-azure-than-windows-server/

[/URL]

http://[URL]https://www.systranbox....-linux-exploring-the-benefits-for-businesses/

[/URL]

Does Azure Use Linux?

Yes, Azure does use Linux as part of its cloud platform. Microsoft Azure offers a wide variety of Linux distributions for its users including popular distributions such as Ubuntu, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, CoreOS and many more.

Azure running on Linux and running Linux is two different things, right?

 

[Topher]

See added article to my post.

Yeah, but that is still talking about platforms users have access to.

From the article:
" Microsoft Azure is a cloud-based platform that offers users a range of services, such as virtual machines, web apps, databases, and even artificial intelligence. It supports a variety of operating systems, including Windows, Linux, and macOS. By leveraging Linux, Azure users can take advantage of many of the same benefits as Windows users, such as scalability, reliability, and cost-efficiency."

Azure running on Linux and running Linux is two different things, right?

Yes, exactly. I deployed an app to Azure two weeks ago. I used a Windows Docker container, but I could have chosen Linux.

 

[X-Wing]

Yeah, but that is still talking about platforms users have access to.

From the article:
" Microsoft Azure is a cloud-based platform that offers users a range of services, such as virtual machines, web apps, databases, and even artificial intelligence. It supports a variety of operating systems, including Windows, Linux, and macOS. By leveraging Linux, Azure users can take advantage of many of the same benefits as Windows users, such as scalability, reliability, and cost-efficiency."

Whoa. Microsoft Is Using Linux to Run Its Cloud

Microsoft has admitted to something that used to be unthinkable: using Linux to run some of its own operations.

www.wired.com

In a blog post on Thursday, Microsoft Azure networking principal architect Kamala Subramaniam explained how the company developed a new software system, dubbed Azure Cloud Switch, for running the networking gear that Microsoft's cloud service depends on.

Network switches typically come with their own software baked right into the product. The problem Microsoft faced, according to Subramaniam, was integrating the software that ships with those switches with the wide variety of software it uses to run its Azure cloud service. So Microsoft had to build its own switch software—and it turned to Linux to do just that.

While the move to Linux is certainly a departure for Microsoft, which used to be quite hostile to open source, it's not a huge surprise. Microsoft has cozied up to the open source community in recent years. It now offers Linux as an option for Azure customers, helped port major open source projects like Hadoop and Node.js to Windows, and even open sourced its own .NET development platform last year.

 

[IllegalLemon]

I do wonder why twitter warriors such as Jez Corden are not calling out these discrepancies as a journalist with integrity would do*.



*Actually, I think I answered my own question.



Problem is Microsoft has "Project xCloud - Powered by Azure" plastered all over the place. They even brag: "more than any other cloud provider". Sometimes a lie is just a lie.

Project xCloud

Put your game in front of more gamers, on more devices using Xbox Game Streaming

developer.microsoft.com

The only thing I can credit Corden and other prominent game journalists for, is for proving exactly the fact that games journalism has become nothing but a cesspool and gaming journalists are nothing more than scumbags whose reviews and opinions are bought out by publishers. This is why games journalism can't really be trusted at all. These guys will never call out their favourite corporation, ever, even though the part of the public that has a clear mind and some semblance of logic and common sense can see right through the nonsense, some games journalists refuse to see the bigger picture, even though it's two feet in front of them.

 

[X-Wing]

Azure running on Linux and running Linux is two different things, right?

They do both.

 

[reksveks]

http://[URL][URL]https://www.wired.com/2015/09/microsoft-using-linux-run-cloud/

[/URL][/URL]

Again referring to an internal service.

They do both.

Azure is a collection of services or products, it's not just one service/product. Some will be on Linux and some will be using Windows. I suspect alot are transition to Linux but that's different to saying 'Azure runs on Linux'

 

[aries_71]

I wasn't trying to be insulting. I was just surprised to log in today and see that your stance changed from, "I thought xCloud doesn't use Azure," to, "Maybe Azure is just a load balancer." It seemed like you were trying to find reasons why the Azure piece isn't a big deal. If that's not what you were doing then ignore the goalpost comment. It's hard to read into intentions over the internet.

EDIT: And how are you still a Junior Member? You have over a thousand posts, and you have been on this forum since 2007. Wtf.

I'm old as hell in this forum, been here since prehistoric times Again, thanks for the link.

 

[X-Wing]

Again referring to an internal service.

Azure is a collection of things, it's not just one service/product.

Right? But their infrastructure relies on Linux.
Not sure how their network hardware running Linux refers to a service, but ok.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Yeah something so easily verifiable. So perhaps there is a way in which they can sneakily but most importantly legally say that they are not using azure.

Who knows? Certainly nobody on here and at the end of the day, it ain't gonna be a forum post on gaf that decides the deal. The CMA already has lol

The azure confusion tells me people have not read any of these reports. Microsoft says they don't use Azure because that's not what xbox cloud gaming runs off of. It runs off actual Xbox console hardware turned into server blades. The only connection xbox cloud gaming has with azure is that the xbox cloud gaming server blades are in the same building as azure, but it isn't actually running off azure's service offerings.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Ya'll know that Sony uses Azure today right?
https://www.windowscentral.com/sony...d-cloud-service-will-be-playstation-exclusive

Those talks were based around a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). Here is a basic definition of a MOU:

A memorandum of understanding is an agreement between two or more parties outlined in a formal document. It is not legally binding but signals the willingness of the parties to move forward with a contract.

The MOU can be seen as the starting point for negotiations as it defines the scope and purpose of the talks. Such memoranda are most often seen in international treaty negotiations but also may be used in high-stakes business dealings such as merger talks.

Of course a source like Windows Central would report on that as if it were more than what it actually was, but what Microsoft & Sony entered into was basically a MOU. Similarly, Microsoft and Sega had an MOU, but that actually transitioned into a full (working) partnership early last year.

And if you think I'm lying about it being a MOU, in one of the articles linked (via embedding), they literally state the following:

Under the memorandum of understanding signed by the parties

Basically, Microsoft and Sony were in talks about what ways Microsoft Azure could possibly be used for PlayStation services. But AFAIK, there was never a public partnership announced like the one Microsoft & Sega did, where very clear plans for Azure usage in Sega's development pipeline and network infrastructure were laid out. So this isn't a "gotcha" on your part; you're just ill-informed.

Xbox use Windows OS so either way they are full of shit.

Technically Xbox uses a modified version of the Windows kernel but over the years they've added so much full-fat Windows kernel features to it, you could say it's basically running on a sort of Windows Lite.

 

[X-Wing]

The azure confusion tells me people have not read any of these reports. Microsoft says they don't use Azure because that's not what xbox cloud gaming runs off of. It runs off actual Xbox console hardware turned into server blades. The only connection xbox cloud gaming has with azure is that the xbox cloud gaming server blades are in the same building as azure, but it isn't actually running off azure's service offerings.

And which service do you think is managing those blades?

 

[Topher]

The azure confusion tells me people have not read any of these reports. Microsoft says they don't use Azure because that's not what xbox cloud gaming runs off of. It runs off actual Xbox console hardware turned into server blades. The only connection xbox cloud gaming has with azure is that the xbox cloud gaming server blades are in the same building as azure, but it isn't actually running off azure's service offerings.

Nonsense.

 

[IFireflyl]

The azure confusion tells me people have not read any of these reports. Microsoft says they don't use Azure because that's not what xbox cloud gaming runs off of. It runs off actual Xbox console hardware turned into server blades. The only connection xbox cloud gaming has with azure is that the xbox cloud gaming server blades are in the same building as azure, but it isn't actually running off azure's service offerings.

As others have already said, the customized Xbox server blades by themselves don't power xCloud. The server blades are the hardware that allows the processing, but Azure is the layer that links the server blades and the clients that are using xCloud. You can't have xCloud without Azure. The server blades aren't just sitting in an Azure datacenter completely detached from Azure.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The only connection xbox cloud gaming has with azure is that the xbox cloud gaming server blades are in the same building as azure

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I hope things will leak from this meeting Lots of people, apparently.

Something is guaranteed to leak from the proceedings next week. Too many fat cats in one place. If they streamed it live, they'd get more views than Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard

Gabe isn't pro-Microsoft. He's pro-gaming. He's actually a gamer, and he doesn't want to engage in practices that hurt gamers. It's also the reason he doesn't engage in exclusivity deals on Steam, even though Epic Games (Valve's competition) has abused that.

TBF, he doesn't need to do exclusivity deals for Steam because Steam is pretty much the defacto standard default for PC storefronts & launchers. They get virtually every game on PC by default of just existing, and they have insanely high market share in the space. So why would they need exclusivity deals?

 

[IFireflyl]

Something is guaranteed to leak from the proceedings next week. Too many fat cats in one place. If they streamed it live, they'd get more views than Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard



TBF, he doesn't need to do exclusivity deals for Steam because Steam is pretty much the defacto standard default for PC storefronts & launchers. They get virtually every game on PC by default of just existing, and they have insanely high market share in the space. So why would they need exclusivity deals?

They normally wouldn't, but there was a time where every new, anticipated PC game was getting Epic Games exclusivity.

Assassin's Creed: Valhalla
Kingdom Hearts
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Far Cry 6

These are some example of games in the last few years that Steam users either didn't get at all, or they got them without full features (Assassin's Creed: Valhalla having no achievement support), or they were timed exclusives to Epic Games. It was a super frustrating and annoying time. Valve could have responded in kind, but Gabe said that hurts gamers and developers in the long run.

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

If the CMA was the yellow light, the EU will be either the red one, or the policeman who told you to go. Microsoft began the merger one year ago. This thread began in september, and il was fun to read and see memes, analysis and meltdowns depending on the info available.
But we are closer to the end. I hope that it will be soon.
Edit: I just googled Microsoft president Brad Smith and he seems to be a pretty good laywer with decades of work, great accomplishments and had worked with regulators since the 2000's. How did Microsoft did this merger this unprepared with a man like him in charge? He worked in London a few years so he even had experience there. Is the wikipedia page on him all bullshit?

Whatever the outcome wil be, after the verdict of the CMA the EU and the FCA, Neogaf will be a battlefield on pro and contra the outcome for weeks (perhaps months) to come, thats for 100% a fact...

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Whatever the outcome wil be, after the verdict of the CMA the EU and the FCA, Neogaf will be a battlefield on pro and contra the outcome for weeks (perhaps months) to come, thats for 100% a fact...

We will soon be in the 500 page of this thread and many have been banned over it. Depending on the outcome the battlefield will be on either mocking the "loser" or dismissing the "winner". We will soon need a meme thread about it, to help the mods and reduce the bans I think

 

[MasterCornholio]

We will soon be in the 500 page of this thread and many have been banned over it. Depending on the outcome the battlefield will be on either mocking the "loser" or dismissing the "winner". We will soon need a meme thread about it, to help the mods and reduce the bans I think

Things are going to be bad even if Microsoft gets ABK. Those concessions are going to be a huge talking point.

 

[Ar¢tos]

.

Whatever the outcome wil be, after the verdict of the CMA the EU and the FCA, Neogaf will be a battlefield on pro and contra the outcome for weeks (perhaps months) to come, thats for 100% a fact...

It's gonna be bad either way, mainly (/potentially) for Xbox gamers.

Worst case scenarios:

Deal fails: Sony has seen how far MS is willing to go and becomes more aggressive with marketing, marketing deals, exclusive content, timed exclusivity deals, wanting to make the gap between ps5 and XsX/s even bigger.

Deal succeeds: Sony becomes HYPER aggressive with marketing, marketing deals, exclusive content and timed exclusivity deals, so much that Xbox players can add 6 months by default to release dates because Sony is going to use the marketshare advantage to moneyhat timed exclusivity for every single big 3rd party game possible.