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Austrian court rules against Sony/EA in lootbox case: classified as illegal gambling; Sony ordered to refund cost
- Thread starter IbizaPocholo
- Start date
- Business Game Dev
SafeOrAlone
Banned
Sony having to repay is just so glorious. Love much of what they do, but they have zero respect for their customers, so this is just… mmm.
Impotaku
Member
Except one important thing will happen all those PG & teenage game ratings will have to be 18 & mature because of the gambling. Killing a lot of their market reach when teenagers & kids are no longer able to be targeted to.
Let's be honest, it won't.
Plenty of under 18 years play games rated 18/Mature cause parents don't care.
Advertising ain't going to change much in terms of the spots and times they are allowed to advertise at.
The main thing that could force a change is if regulators basically start pushing platform holders to do more re age verification (similar to the FTC and Epic decision) but imo it's too complex to create a 'functional' system where 80% of under 18/16 years olds gamers are using a child account.
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Presumably this also applies to steam and xbox. If it’s illegal gambling on Sonys platform it’s illegal gambling on all platforms.
A broader Europe wide adoption I think is unlikely. They had their chance a few years ago, and instead of classifying actual gambling, ie things like loot boxes as gambling, they chose to just classify and games with representations of actual gambling (but that didn’t involve actual money). This had the unusual effect of various U rated kids games, including some Pokémon games, that had simulated gambling in some locations instantly being reclassified as 18 only games.
Yet the actual games causing real harm such as fifa and overwatch were left untouched. I think that’s all that needs to be said in terms of where the power lies, and how they are incentivised to side with billion dollar industry over the public good.
A broader Europe wide adoption I think is unlikely. They had their chance a few years ago, and instead of classifying actual gambling, ie things like loot boxes as gambling, they chose to just classify and games with representations of actual gambling (but that didn’t involve actual money). This had the unusual effect of various U rated kids games, including some Pokémon games, that had simulated gambling in some locations instantly being reclassified as 18 only games.
Yet the actual games causing real harm such as fifa and overwatch were left untouched. I think that’s all that needs to be said in terms of where the power lies, and how they are incentivised to side with billion dollar industry over the public good.
Robb
Gold Member
True, that’s definitely a good thing. I imagine a lot of people will be intrigued to find out why a Football game would have an 18+ logo on the box. That’s not as obvious as something like e.g. CoD.
Sounds like it's currently an individual suing Sony, will be awaiting to see if it gets appealed but it in theory will apply to all platforms.
One thing (assuming the decision is final) that will be important is if those others have gambling licences in Austria. I doubt it.
systemr123
Banned
No offense but all brands are doing this, not just Sony. I agree they have to repay, but also all the others. Preying on little kids to get their parents money should be punishable by law, even anything gambling, or gambling related in video games. Loot boxes are fun when they’re free, when you have to pay for them it’s literally gambling.
And the defense that it’s not because you don’t get any possible valuable return is the most stupid ever. Technically that might be so but you must sink soooooo low to even consider this defense. It’s even worse than gambling because they literally admit that which you buy, had no value at all, ergo, it should be supplied for free. Like in the good old times.
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SafeOrAlone
Banned
No offense taken. I’m aware many companies are doing the same thing. I’m talking about Sony’s treatment of customers in general. It’s awful. So I’m glad to see them face consequences.
systemr123
Banned
I’m still pissed at Sony for not refunding NMS when it came out and was way worse than advertised. (Look green rats. I can blame both sides of the coin for not doing a good job).
Luckily NMS itself redeemed itself so it’s a nice game now but I won’t forget Sonys customer service back then.
SafeOrAlone
Banned
100%. But they will take great strides against Cyberpunk because forced refunds finally came into play.
Yeah, remove Cyberpunk, but be consistent.
They just hate to give refunds. I had to check out on Sony for a few years after they refused to refund me $10 from auto-pay being re-enabled for the millionth time. I see that practice as predatory.
If I spend thousands on your store and you refuse to give me a $10 refund for an accidental purchase, your customer relations are ass.
Great exclusives though.
Chukhopops
Member
At least in EU there’s no such thing as a global gambling license. Some countries have state monopolies, others only allow sports betting and/or Poker and they all come with specific obligations depending on local regulations.
Plus you can’t target minors or buy advertising during specific times of day, etc. It’s a lot more complicated than it appears especially if you want to be compliant everywhere.
I don’t think it will be a realistic solution.
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Robb
Gold Member
Yeah definitely true, but hopefully something like this can make some waves. Even if just a few countries make similar verdicts and implement measures it’s better than nothing.
vodka-bull
Member
Isn‘t austria the one with the kangaroos?
Foilz
Banned
I never understand the big uproar over loot boxes. You don't have to buy them so I don't see how it's a bad thing. Wouldn't any game that has a reroll feature where you use gems coins or whatever you could spend real money on inorder to change the contents of a store or chest be considered the same thing?
Also how is this a form of gambling if the contents can't be converted into funds outside the game?
Also how is this a form of gambling if the contents can't be converted into funds outside the game?
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wvnative
Member
1. Rather real funds or in game items, your spending real money on random chance which is exploiting the same psychological effect that makes gambling so addictive to some people, it's the same dopamine
2. A lot of games that heavily push loot boxes have a massive player base of young children and the in game UI's try to entice you, the thought process here is that publishers are using this to get children addicted at a young age so to them it's normalized when they get older and think nothing of it, but it could easily cause a gateway effect of a whole generation of kids to grow up gambling addicts. Yeah parents need to monitor and restrict kids and do their jobs as parents, but that's no excuse for mega corporations to try to get children hooked, that's just exploitation and should be illegal.
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
I mean you don't have to buy poison so I don't see how it's a bad thing. You see how faulty that logic is?
Portugeezer
Member
No, FIFA would have to be rated 18.
Foilz
Banned
No I don't. It's completely different. If you never bought a loot box you could still enjoy the game, you just wouldn't have the chance of getting that random skin or item. Kids don't have credit cards to use to pay for these items. If their parents are giving them to the kids then it's on the parenting skills and the responsibility of the parents to fix this issue. There's millions of adults who play games and I'm sure have no issue with loot boxes. I'm sure some waste tons of money also like the whale who spent 100k in doable immortal but that was HIS choice to do so.
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Foilz
Banned
But then wouldn't any "mystery" toy be considered gambling. Kinder eggs, Funko's, etc?
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
Well, its actually not his choice. That’s the whole damn issue with lootboxes. They are specifically designed in predatory studied behavior to manipulate the victims.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
I mean.. anyone who has dealt with Sonys shitty customer service knows they’re just going to “refund” this to PSN wallets, meaning they get the money back anyway 
brian0057
Banned
People say things like this as if a company executive is pointing a gun to their head and forcing them to spend money on their crap.
You're not being manipulated. You're just weak and I feel no pity for anyone that falls for this.
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Jinzo Prime
Member
You need to find some empathy, son. Apathetic is not a good way to live. Rich people using psychologists to manipulate young people into spending their parents money is just wrong, plain and simple.
RyanEvans21
Member
You cant play it without buying lootboxes? most of it just comestic anyway... you know which one is worst? "Battle Pass" and most of new characters lock.
Portugeezer
Member
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brian0057
Banned
Yeah, it's so badass to not spend money on products determined by chance.You are so badass.
I just can't help myself to not open my wallet and not use my cards.
It's incredibly difficult to do.
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BlitzerRadic
Member
How is that any different than when kids are manipulated into spending their parents money on expensive ass jordans?
You can say oh he'll no and return something at the store at least. Plus you actually have real shoes and not a digital pair lol
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Suddenly, mobile gaming devs start shitting their keks
Little Mac
Gold Member
Finally some good news for a change.
Dr. Samuel Hayden
Member
Excellent
Foilz
Banned
it absolutly was his choice. he didnt have to spend money on the game. he CHOSE to do so. I buy baseball cards so by this logic baseball cards are a form of gabling since im spending money to buy packs inorder to get that hit card. I dont have to but i choose to. there needs to be personal responsibility to the individual.
Putonahappyface
Gold Member
GhostOfTsu
Banned
EA made the game and developed those predatory systems. That same game is on sale on Xbox, Steam and everywhere but then you read this thread and everybody is talking about Sony, no mention of EA besides the title
Weird hate boner against Sony from some users here.
BlitzerRadic
Member
What about games? Cant return those.