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[M1987]

Now, what's this...

It's bullshit

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

I used to be a big fan of Pach Attack and then Pachter Factor. I was even a patreon on Pachter Factor because I enjoyed listening to his views on gaming and his discussion about whisky.

He started becoming very anti Sony last year. Bashing them for being greedy bastards for charging $70. I was OK with that. He became very pro merger and praised Phil Spencer and MS. I was OK with that. He finds every opportunity to snipe at Sony. I'm fine with that.


But I finally had enough when he said that Nintendo had every right to charge $70 for their games and it's ok to do so. So Sony is a greedy bastard for charging $70 for games but Nintendo is fine.

He also fails to bring up the fact that it was ATVI who started charging games at $70 a pop.

I don't like listening to people with bias.

And he did not gave any of that kind of comment when MS did the same, first party games on Xbox will be $70 also.
The guy is a joke.

 

[GHG]

Now, what's this...

So this is where we're at? Threatening national security?

He was Silent Viper all along.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Mergers are only good for rich people.

 

[Elios83]

Now, what's this...

What's this? A person who has lost sanity

 

[GHG]

If they are actually willing to go to the government and start making threats regarding national security infrastructure over this deal, then that in itself is an indication that their intentions are not above board.

 

[Methos#1975]

Now, what's this...

Did someone actually post in reply that this decision would wreck relationships between the UK and the Ukraine. What are they smoking?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Now, what's this...

Dude really went out there and said MS has an important role in UK's cybersecurity defense?

The American consequence of letting the private sector feel like they run the country. Maybe regulators should tear one of these big companies apart just to show where power lies.

 

[GHG]

Did someone actually post in reply that this decision wouod wreck relationships between the UK and the Ukraine. What are they smoking?

Because Brad Smith declared "victory for Ukraine" when announcing one of their deals that was supposed to act as a remedy.

What do you think happens to Ukraine now that said deal is no longer significant?

 

[ulantan]

Now, what's this...

Microsoft spent so much time and money to paint Jim Ryan as a crying child, for them to start acting like this funniest twist.

 

[Bernoulli]

no way they are serious

 

[Drell]

Love how the "No" option in the survey progressed since yesterday.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Dude really went out there and said MS has an important role in UK's cybersecurity defense?

The American consequence of letting the private sector feel like they run the country. Maybe regulators should tear one of these big companies apart just to show where power lies.

Feel like? America has always been run by big companies.

Also, the regulators once threatened to tear Microsoft apart back around the turn of the century. The company hasn't really changed one bit since then, in retrospect the regulators should have followed through with their threats to break Microsoft up. They had won the case and they had the opportunity and they failed to act on it.

United States v. Microsoft Corp. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[X-Wing]

If Microsoft really is threatening to expose a country to cyber terrorism just because they didn't get their merger them frankly they need to get fucked. I doubt any of this is real because it would be to surreal to be true.

 

[GHG]

This will be an important point of reference over the coming days and weeks:

Shock was yesterday, let's see how much we progress today.

 

[Bernoulli]

Now, what's this...

a reminder for everyone

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Now, what's this...

That would be fucking wild. I don't think I have the constitution to be on this roller coaster much longer.

 

[Neofire]

no way they are serious

So many armchair lawyers going to bat for Microsoft on Twitter. I guess the UK regulators just ignorant individuals and the Twitter crowd are the ones with all the information

 

[Zheph]

Now, what's this...

Tempted to call it "despair"?

a reminder for everyone

Not one but two fingers in the pie lmao

 

[delirium trigger]

You wanna complain about big bad corporations but here we have an example of government overreach. They squashed it over cloud gaming for crying out loud.

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Sakura]

I don't understand all this bad mouthing the UK. Like, if the EU rejects it too are they going to start telling MS to pull out of the EU, or say that EU isn't open for business? Or what if the USA ultimately rejects it? Seems like such weird takes.

 

[Bernoulli]

Tempted to call it "despair"?

Not one but two fingers in the pie lmao

and isn't even a lawyer, just a commentator

 

[Three]

no way they are serious

MS PR and shill strategy

Talking business and games:
Cumulative users
Console sales don't matter

Talking regulation:
Concurrent users
Console sales matter most

how is concurrent users a measure of how many people this would affect? Are these people daft?

 

[Wildebeest]

What's going on? You look away for a moment and Microsoft is declaring cyber warfare on the UK unless it bends the knee. These tech companies have been reading too many bad cyberpunk novels but never realized that they were supposed to be dystopian and the corpos were always the villains.

 

[GHG]

MS PR and shill strategy

Talking business and games:
Cumulative users
Console sales don't matter

Talking regulation:
Concurrent users
Console sales matter most

how is concurrent users a measure of how many people this would affect? Are these people daft?

The ways in which we get nuggets of unfiltered data from this business division will never not be funny.

 

[Dick Jones]

What's going on? You look away for a moment and Microsoft is declaring cyber warfare on the UK unless it bends the knee. These tech companies have been reading too many bad cyberpunk novels but never realized that they were supposed to be dystopian and the corpos were always the villains.

Microsoft have signed a 10 year deal with the Irish Republican Army

 

[GHG]

Microsoft have signed a 10 year deal with the Irish Republican Army

I shouldn't laugh.

Having to check under the car every morning as a kid growing up in the 90's because of my mum's position at the time was not fun.

 

[HoofHearted]

 

[Dick Jones]

I shouldn't laugh.

Having to check under the car every morning as a kid growing up in the 90's because of my mum's position at the time was not fun.

Sorry about that lad. Thankfully we have all moved on from that time.

I'll even refrain from making a joke about the position of your mother. If that doesn't show maturity, nothing will.

 

[Three]

I don't understand all this bad mouthing the UK. Like, if the EU rejects it too are they going to start telling MS to pull out of the EU, or say that EU isn't open for business? Or what if the USA ultimately rejects it? Seems like such weird takes.

USA has already rejected it and people are bad mouthing the FTC and Lina instead. For the UK they're trying to badmouth the country and call everyone peasants though. At some point they might just accept that maybe the deal is what's not right here.

The ways in which we get nuggets of unfiltered data from this business division will never not be funny.

It's even more funny when you think about what the cheerleaders in forums have been using as to why there is low XS stock or sales. For months/years they've been saying chips have been redirected for xCloud and now they get this nugget of information that server capacity for it is only 5,000 concurrent users. So at max only 5,000 XS sales were redirected for xCloud over 2.5 years.

 

[Wildebeest]

I don't understand all this bad mouthing the UK. Like, if the EU rejects it too are they going to start telling MS to pull out of the EU, or say that EU isn't open for business? Or what if the USA ultimately rejects it? Seems like such weird takes.

Way I see it, they are throwing red meat to the European tabloids and politicians. Crazy Brexit land makes itself even more irrelevant globally, while the EU boldly approves the landmark deal. I'd say the headlines write themselves, but I sucked at making a catchy headline.

 

[Bernoulli]

i saw this post by CeeCee

Right - y'all made me dig out my login for the first time in three years so you better all appreciate this.

First up, I have a professional background related to this issue.

Second, There are at least 4 major errors of fact or understanding which are running endemic in the thread:

1. That the CMA is in any way subject to government intervention/"just take them to court". The appeal process goes to a tribunal, which can only intervene if their action was illegal, had incorrect process or was irrational. There is no other route to appeal to the courts and the UK Government cannot intervene even if they want to. The CMA is not run or controlled by the Government - attacking the CMA means you are attacking an independent organisation, not the UK Government or the Conservative Party.
2. That irrational carries a colloquial meaning. Just because you think a conclusion is wrong does not make it irrational. Irrational, in this context means that it is so unreasonable that no rational person could reasonably have reached this conclusion.
3. That the probability of the appeal succeeding is anything other than very low. Success rate at the CAT is not high, and a success would just mean that the CMA has to remake the decision having fixed whatever the issue in their process was.
4. That the CMA is a political body, "overpaid", "idiots", or any other ad-hominem attack. The CMA is an independent body, staffed by people with deep and extensive knowledge and experience of competition law and issues, who are paid less than they could earn in the private sector (even quite senior staff are generally paid less than £100k). From professional experience, I can confidently say that the quality of the CMA's work and people is highly-regarded by professionals in the field.

Also, please stop bringing up Brexit. In fact, as a fun bonus, EU competition policy is exactly what most people in this thread seem to not want - a heavily political process. EU decisions are made by the Commission - a body heavily subject to political influence. UK decisions are made by a politically independent body. To be explicitly clear: if you prefer the EU process, you prefer a political process.

and about the Fosspatent delusional theory ( remember he isn't even a lawyer)

I have worked on a number of situations related to the UK's national security laws. The idea that they apply here is one of the most absurd legal suggestions I have ever seen in my life.

 

[Lions Gate]

Now, what's this...

ooops

 

[kiryani]

I'm from the UK, and I own a PS5 & a Series X

The literal only horse I have in this race, is me getting more free (game pass) games.

Has my government just stopped me getting more free games?

 

[Bernoulli]

I'm from the UK, and I own a PS5 & a Series X

The literal only horse I have in this race, is me getting more free (game pass) games.

Has my government just stopped me getting more free games?

you aren't getting free games you are paying 13£/Month to rent games that you lose acces to when you stop the subscription

 

[kiryani]

you aren't getting free games you are paying 13£/Month to rent games that you lose acces to when you stop the subscription

Which is why I put (game pass) in brackets as I assumed anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would understand that goes without saying

 

[jm89]

Have we heard anything from jim "chadowski" ryan?

 

[Solidus_T]

Love how the "No" option in the survey progressed since yesterday.

I was gonna ask if there's a way I could change my answer just for fun

 

[jm89]

I'm from the UK, and I own a PS5 & a Series X

The literal only horse I have in this race, is me getting more free (game pass) games.

Has my government just stopped me getting more free games?

The CMA has prevented a trillion dollar company from harming a market.

This isn't about just you getting free games.

If you want free games.

Miniclip

Unleash the gamer in everyone

miniclip.com

 

[Bernoulli]

i hope the european commision is watching how MS is making threats against the UK and block them too
they are finally showing the true colors behind all the PR "When everybody plays we all win"

 

[GHG]

i hope the european commision is watching how MS is making threats against the UK and block them too
they are finally showing the true colors behind all the PR "When everybody plays we all win"

That combined with their recent display of arrogance in leaking to the press that they intend to go over the FTC's head.

In particular the EU commision have recently showed that they don't take kindly to such moves/attempts.

 

[Pelta88]

That would be fucking wild. I don't think I have the constitution to be on this roller coaster much longer.

Some UK context...

Our government isn't in a position to reverse the breaking of a KitKat. Let alone the decision of an independent regulatory body.

 

[Thirty7ven]

MS's behavior has been appalling. Completely unreasonable.

I wanna hear what that Hoeg M&A "I'm totally not an Xbox fanboy" Law has to say about all this behavior considering he was just recently on a Last Stand Media podcast with Colin Moriarty, where he was dropping nuggets like "Sony's behavior in this makes me like Playstation less".

 

[SportsFan581]

What reasonable remedies did Microsoft put forward? They literally did nothing but offer 10 year COD deals. To everyone. Cloud provider? COD deal. Console provider? COD deal.

I've said since the beginning that I felt that this would not happen without meaningful structural remedies. Divesting COD. Maybe separating Xbox and the game publishing wings. I honestly think Microsoft never discussed this with the CMA because they just didn't want to do it. Companies this large get used to basically doing what they want and fighting tooth and nail to get the fines reduced to a pittance if they break a promise to a regulator.

The things you list are farcical remedies for the situation though. For one, the CMA dropped the console component here, thus separating Xbox from their publishing is irrelevant. Divesting CoD as a remedy is basically the same thing as saying the entire process was decided from the jump and we are protecting Sony here, ABK essentially is CoD at this point. Even a perpetual open agreement for CoD on all cloud platforms was dead because they didn't want MS to be in control of the terms of CoD on cloud even if the same terms were offered to everyone.

I honestly don't think there is anything MS could have brought to the table here that would have been considered outside of maybe a bit of public theater. That's what really surprised me about the statement they released yesterday was just how perfectly clear it was that MS is just viewed as ineligible to purchase gaming IP there because of this "cloud gaming future" they see in their crystal balls and Windows.

It's like that earlier video that was posted, it's obvious now that MS was presumed guilty from the start here. All of the big companies are probably dead in the water on any acquisitions in the UK now.

I knew that the US was trending in this direction, or at least certain forces are trying to push it there, obviously the UK is already there. The more you know.

 

[Topher]

MS's behavior has been appalling. Completely unreasonable.

I wanna hear what that Hoeg M&A "I'm totally not an Xbox fanboy" Law has to say about all this behavior considering he was just recently on a Last Stand Media podcast with Colin Moriarty, where he was dropping nuggets like "Sony's behavior in this makes me like Playstation less".

He called Activision's response "aggressive". Yeah, I want to see the same energy calling out Microsoft's response to the CMA as we saw with Sony's arguments against the merger. Microsoft's response is worse in every conceivable way. Leveraging the security of an entire country is absurd even as an empty threat.

 

[DJ12]

I don't understand all this bad mouthing the UK. Like, if the EU rejects it too are they going to start telling MS to pull out of the EU, or say that EU isn't open for business? Or what if the USA ultimately rejects it? Seems like such weird takes.

They are expecting their former employee to push it through.

 

[gothmog]

The things you list are farcical remedies for the situation though. For one, the CMA dropped the console component here, thus separating Xbox from their publishing is irrelevant. Divesting CoD as a remedy is basically the same thing as saying the entire process was decided from the jump and we are protecting Sony here, ABK essentially is CoD at this point. Even a perpetual open agreement for CoD on all cloud platforms was dead because they didn't want MS to be in control of the terms of CoD on cloud even if the same terms were offered to everyone.

I honestly don't think there is anything MS could have brought to the table here that would have been considered outside of maybe a bit of public theatre. That's what really surprised me about the statement they released yesterday was just how perfectly clear it was that MS is just viewed as ineligible to purchase gaming IP there because of this "cloud gaming future" they see in their crystal balls and Windows.

Farcical to whom? You might want to look at how other structural remedies have worked in other industries. Companies have had to sell off whole lines of physical stores or divest them in order to complete deals. Compared to that splitting off the devs working on COD seems easy.

I just supported a migration of a company that had to split out a part of their business. Not easy in that we had to take a slice of everything like specific parts of databases and such to support it, but completely doable. It doesn't even cost that much in the grand scheme of billion dollar deals. Maybe tens of millions to do it in an expedited manner. Most of the employees work from home so it didn't disrupt their day to day at all.

You would be surprised how much money and effort large enterprises need to spend in order to keep their business out of regulatory trouble.

 

[Thirty7ven]

He called Activision's response "aggressive". Yeah, I want to see the same energy calling out Microsoft's response to the CMA as we saw with Sony's arguments against the merger. Microsoft's response is worse in every conceivable way. Leveraging the security of an entire country is absurd even as an empty threat.

He's keeping it pretty mum about MS, how cute. Afraid of the reaction he will ignite from all the Xbox fanboys that started following him for sure, his twitter is filled with idiots dreaming about MS leaving the UK. Good job Hoeg, now you're stuck with stupid.

 

[SportsFan581]

Farcical to whom? You might want to look at how other structural remedies have worked in other industries. Companies have had to sell off whole lines of physical stores or divest them in order to complete deals. Compared to that splitting off the devs working on COD seems easy.

I just supported a migration of a company that had to split out a part of their business. Not easy in that we had to take a slice of everything like specific parts of databases and such to support it, but completely doable. It doesn't even cost that much in the grand scheme of billion dollar deals. Maybe tens of millions to do it in an expedited manner. Most of the employees work from home so it didn't disrupt their day to day at all.

You would be surprised how much money and effort large enterprises need to spend in order to keep their business out of regulatory trouble.

To this deal it is farcical, yes, because MS was buying CoD. Almost all the ABK studios are part of the CoD machine.

That's like one store chain buying another and being told you can't have the other stores but we'll let you keep the parking lots. If CoD represented a smaller piece of ABK, maybe. I don't think MS was looking to pay $70b for just the B and the K, the A was a necessary component to the deal, it isn't fringe (completely different from Disney dumping some broadcasting they didn't really care about, etc.). If Activision had a cloud business on the side, or owned some obscure office software or something like that, what you propose starts to become more realistic.

Though at this point if MS tried to just buy King, I half expect that the CMA would come back and say that the power of CandyCrush on the cloud would just be too much.