EXCLUSIVE - PS5 Pro in Development, Could Release Late 2024

Loxus said:
12 Zen 4 Cores and 60 RDNA 3 CUs is the best bet.

I pain stinkingly scaled Zen 4 and RDNA 3 to make an APU and 12 Cores and 60 CUs works out much better than any other combination.
Monolithic is even harder to work out.
You guys can try yourself, maybe someone could work it out better than me.
GeT4LOa.png



In this video Mark Cerny said devs wanted 16 CPU Cores, so putting 12 CPU Cores in the Pro wouldn't be bad.
56 CUs (60 total) is basically 18+18+18.
18 for PS4 BC, 36 for PS5 and 36+18 for PS5 Pro.
Not 100% accurate.
7Y1hbWM.png
Click to expand...


Yo...bro...speak English.
 
Loxus said:
12 Zen 4 Cores and 60 RDNA 3 CUs is the best bet.

I pain stinkingly scaled Zen 4 and RDNA 3 to make an APU and 12 Cores and 60 CUs works out much better than any other combination.
Monolithic is even harder to work out.
You guys can try yourself, maybe someone could work it out better than me.
GeT4LOa.png



In this video Mark Cerny said devs wanted 16 CPU Cores, so putting 12 CPU Cores in the Pro wouldn't be bad.
56 CUs (60 total) is basically 18+18+18.
18 for PS4 BC, 36 for PS5 and 36+18 for PS5 Pro.
Not 100% accurate.
7Y1hbWM.png
Click to expand...

What the fuck ?

80CUs with 8 disabled would be the best bet... But maybe that's alot of CUs for a Console.

Anyway i fully expect RDNA4 lite & ZEN4 to be there.
 
RJMacready73 said:
This is the thing, that'll only go for the current games and maybe the ones due out around the time, but Devs gonna Dev and will always if given the headroom push for better visuals so instead of removing the 30fps option and using 60 as a baseline and developing from there they'll still offer that 30fps mode with even more bells and whistles
Click to expand...
point is devs will still be making games that run at 30-40 fps on PS5

so a potential PS5 Pro could run some of them at 50-60

notice Sony's devs are adding unlocked framerate modes into their games. its future proofing. the "Pro patches" are already being built in now. a stronger PS5 Pro could boost Ratchet Rift Apart's current uncapped fidelity mode from ~40 fps to ~60 fps without any new dev work
 
Srsly guys, gotta use bit of sanity here, we can tell roughly what specs ps5pr0 might/will have if we look at current amd tech and we compare it to ps4pr0 and base ps5.

We getting 8cores/16threads cpu, very likely highly downclocked r7 7700 with less cache, same way ps5 base cpu was highly downclocked r7 3800x, for simple reason= power limit.

Ps5pr0 gonna be a console so obviously will be 220-250W tdp max.

Current game engines dont use more than 8C16T as we got proof simply by newest amd cpu 7800x3d being fastest, yes in many cases even faster from similar cpu with 3d cash that has more cores/threads and is much more expesnive, aka r9 7950x3d.

Now about gpu- highly likely gonna be produced on upcoming 3nm tsmc node, and it has to be mass produced so cant be too expesnive nor too big, which means it will be very likely cutdown chip vs what amd gonna have to offer as their best- it will be downclocked/downvolted too just so it doesnt surpass 220-250W tdp as a SoC (combo of cpu and gpu on same chip).

Now specific performance of that gpu= we dont know till we get to know how good next gen amd cards are, obviously it should be around 2x stronger vs base ps5 same like ps4pr0 was over 2x stronger vs base ps4 but we dont have details and no1 knows them except those few sony engineers working on research and development-testing prototypes and stuff like that.

There is still plenty time to get actual official specs, remember console wont launch sooner than holiday 2024 so 1,5years from now on, plenty time for stuff to change, but using reasoning there is no way in hell ps5pr0 doesnt have enough power to at least run games in 60fps while they look like current base ps5 fidelity/resolution mode, so only with that knowledge we can assume at least 2x gpu performance jump and some decent(maybe 50% maybe bit more even) cpu jump, we wont get much vram jump tho, if any.

We will definitely get bigger SSD for the simple reason its tech that got much cheaper/moved forward a lot in last 2,5 years.


Tldr for non techsavy ppl- expect ps5pro to be similar jump in power like ps4pr0 was vs base ps4, so not 1,5 but at least full on double power and in practical terms expect games running like in performance mode but still looking like fidelity mode, price wise its too hard to predict but-again- taking current inflation into account 600$ will be lowest, 800$ will be highest- its premium product but sony wants it still to be affordable and sell well.
 
RJMacready73 said:
This is the thing, that'll only go for the current games and maybe the ones due out around the time, but Devs gonna Dev and will always if given the headroom push for better visuals so instead of removing the 30fps option and using 60 as a baseline and developing from there they'll still offer that 30fps mode with even more bells and whistles
Click to expand...
The pro would be niche and never the target. Just like no games ever target the ps4 pro.
 
Loxus said:
12 Zen 4 Cores and 60 RDNA 3 CUs is the best bet.

I pain stinkingly scaled Zen 4 and RDNA 3 to make an APU and 12 Cores and 60 CUs works out much better than any other combination.
Monolithic is even harder to work out.
You guys can try yourself, maybe someone could work it out better than me.



In this video Mark Cerny said devs wanted 16 CPU Cores, so putting 12 CPU Cores in the Pro wouldn't be bad.
56 CUs (60 total) is basically 18+18+18.
18 for PS4 BC, 36 for PS5 and 36+18 for PS5 Pro.
Not 100% accurate.
Click to expand...

There is literally no reason to up the core count on the CPU side. There is no use case since all games will target the base PS5 8 Core CPU. What you would benefit is from a boost in the frequency for a "Boost Mode".
It would just take away room for more CUs on the GPU side. Keep in mind the size of the SoC for the past Sony consoles. They have yet to hit 400mm.

56 CU for the GPU is probably in the ball park. Could be slightly lower, or slightly higher.
 
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Given what we know of the methodology used in creation of the PS4 Pro... it's safe to say that we will likely see a similar implementation for a potential PS5 Pro. For PS4 Pro, the 'butterfly' method simply duplicated the GPU. This was beneficial as PS4 games could run on half the gpu as normal whilst games targeting the Pro would use the full allocation of CU. Cerny himself said that it was done that way for simplicity due to their hardware based backwards compatibility implementation. When in PS4 Pro 'mode' and utilising the full compliment of CU the GPU down clocked slightly.

The PS5 Pro (if it is indeed real) will likely feature a similar implementation. At best we should expect a doubling of CU ~20tflop. It's likely that the new console would retain the same version of RDNA with perhaps a few new features added. The cpu will likely remain the same with no changes. A PS5 Pro may include more/faster memory. Likely ssd speed will remain the same. With a doubling of CU the PS5 should have no trouble hitting 4k60fps in most games… at console settings of course.
 
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YOU PC BRO?! said:
Given what we know of the methodology used in creation of the PS4 Pro... it's safe to say that we will likely see a similar implementation for a potential PS5 Pro. For PS4 Pro, the 'butterfly' method simply duplicated the GPU. This was beneficial as PS4 games could run on half the gpu as normal whilst games targeting the Pro would use the full allocation of CU. Cerny himself said that it was done that way for simplicity due to their hardware based backwards compatibility implementation. When in PS4 Pro 'mode' and utilising the full compliment of CU the GPU down clocked slightly.

The PS5 Pro (if it is indeed real) will likely feature a similar implementation. At best we should expect a doubling of CU ~20tflop. It's likely that the new console would retain the same version of RDNA with perhaps a few new features added. The cpu will likely remain the same with no changes. A PS5 Pro may include more/faster memory. Likely ssd speed will remain the same. With a doubling of CU the PS5 should have no trouble hitting 4k60fps in most games… at console settings of course.
Click to expand...

the PS4 Pro was GCN4+ while the base PS4 was GCN2+
So I see no reason for them not to use RDNA3 or RDNA4 (depending on when RDNA4 is ready)
 
Redgamingtech just made a video where he speculate the specs of PS5 pro. He has some sources but they all say different things.
Zen4 Cpu with 8cores
Rdna3+ GPU with 60Cu's but it will be 54cu's for yield improvements. 2.5ghz+ clocks
No infinity cache but just faster gddr6 memory speed.
This is what he believes if you don't wanna watch the video.

But with the RDNA3 fiasco it's not possible make a good prediction atm. Here's what I think but it can change if we get new info.
Cpu: Zen3+ mobile, 3.4Ghz
Gpu: Rdna4 54Cu's, 3.5ghz
Vram: 16GB gddr7 128-bit bus with 576 GB/s memory speed.
32MB infinity cache.

Cpu + I/O will be on 6nm (100mm2). Memory controllers + Infinity cache also on 6nm (75mm2). Gpu on 3nm (120mm2). Total die size 295mm2. All on TSMC.
Gpu Clock and ray tracing performance will be the same as RDNA4, 3.5ghz gpu clock based on redgamingtech rdna4 rumor.

I went with chiplets + a small 3nm die because we have many rumors that wafer costs are increasing with each new node.
 
01011001 said:
the PS4 Pro was GCN4+ while the base PS4 was GCN2+
So I see no reason for them not to use RDNA3 or RDNA4 (depending on when RDNA4 is ready)
Click to expand...
That's not entirely correct. Rapid packed math was pretty much the only new feature adopted during the change. Hardware based back compatibility makes it difficult to update the architecture - Cerny has said as much himself. Sony most likely wouldn't do that for a Pro tier device. They would rearchitect for a new generation device. The whole point of the Pro console was that it was a quick and easy upgrade to the existing family of devices. It's not a new generation. Some people expect waaaay too much.
 
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YOU PC BRO?! said:
That's not entirely correct. Rapid packed math was pretty much the only new feature adopted during the change. Hardware based back compatibility makes it difficult to update the architecture - Cerny has said as much himself. Sony most likely wouldn't do that for a Pro tier device. They would rearchitect for a new generation device. The whole point of the Pro console was that it was a quick and easy upgrade to the existing family of devices. It's not a new generation. Some people expect waaaay too much.
Click to expand...
Not quite, it was a mix of Polaris and Vega while the base PS4 was another generation back. I think checkerboard rendering was based on the new ID buffer and the multi resolution render target feature was another new thing in the architecture.
 
kyliethicc said:
point is devs will still be making games that run at 30-40 fps on PS5

so a potential PS5 Pro could run some of them at 50-60

notice Sony's devs are adding unlocked framerate modes into their games. its future proofing. the "Pro patches" are already being built in now. a stronger PS5 Pro could boost Ratchet Rift Apart's current uncapped fidelity mode from ~40 fps to ~60 fps without any new dev work
Click to expand...
Sony is also releasing their games on Steam now and a PC can run some of these games at 60fps.
 
YOU PC BRO?! said:
That's not entirely correct. Rapid packed math was pretty much the only new feature adopted during the change. Hardware based back compatibility makes it difficult to update the architecture - Cerny has said as much himself. Sony most likely wouldn't do that for a Pro tier device. They would rearchitect for a new generation device. The whole point of the Pro console was that it was a quick and easy upgrade to the existing family of devices. It's not a new generation. Some people expect waaaay too much.
Click to expand...

I think their backwards compatibility improved since then too tho, so IMO it's more likely for them to go that route now than it ever was.

For Microsoft it's a no-brainer of course, they could run Xbox SX games on a random PC most likely if they wanted to lol
 
SegaSnatcher said:
There is literally no reason to up the core count on the CPU side. There is no use case since all games will target the base PS5 8 Core CPU. What you would benefit is from a boost in the frequency for a "Boost Mode".
It would just take away room for more CUs on the GPU side. Keep in mind the size of the SoC for the past Sony consoles. They have yet to hit 400mm.

56 CU for the GPU is probably in the ball park. Could be slightly lower, or slightly higher.
Click to expand...
From what Mark Cerny said, devs wanted 16 cores. Devs know better than us what they want in the hardware to create the game they want to make.
CPrEjdI.jpg

 
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Loxus said:
Yes, but if there's empty spaces on the silicon, might as well fill it with something.
Click to expand...
It doesnt work like that, u gotta take into account cost and power usage, here comparision for u, both newly released/same gen, r7 7800x3d vs r9 7950x3d u can say both are effectively same performance, and its not gpu bottleneck coz games were tested on rtx 4090 in 1080p, hell in few cases much cheaper/lower tdp r7 7800x3d won.

Thats the main reason we can be 100% sure we getting 8c16t cpu and it wont be any loss in performance, it will be huge save on cost and power, which can be then put towards stronger gpu :)
 
Loxus said:
From what Mark Cerny said, devs wanted 16 cores. Devs know better than us what they want in the hardware to create the game they want to make.
CPrEjdI.jpg

Click to expand...

Currently number of CPU cores is not the main problem on console gaming. Just look on PC games. Efficiency (caches size) and higher clocks is what is currently needed on those big games running on high end PCs. In some benchmarks some games run even faster on fewer cores clocked identically!

Why do you think the quality modes run at 30-40fps while at the same time the framerate modes can run up to 80-100fps in the same game? What does it tell you about the bottlenecks on consoles CPUs?
 
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Trumpstyle said:
Redgamingtech just made a video where he speculate the specs of PS5 pro. He has some sources but they all say different things.
Zen4 Cpu with 8cores
Rdna3+ GPU with 60Cu's but it will be 54cu's for yield improvements. 2.5ghz+ clocks
No infinity cache but just faster gddr6 memory speed.
This is what he believes if you don't wanna watch the video.

But with the RDNA3 fiasco it's not possible make a good prediction atm. Here's what I think but it can change if we get new info.
Cpu: Zen3+ mobile, 3.4Ghz
Gpu: Rdna4 54Cu's, 3.5ghz
Vram: 16GB gddr7 128-bit bus with 576 GB/s memory speed.
32MB infinity cache.

Cpu + I/O will be on 6nm (100mm2). Memory controllers + Infinity cache also on 6nm (75mm2). Gpu on 3nm (120mm2). Total die size 295mm2. All on TSMC.
Gpu Clock and ray tracing performance will be the same as RDNA4, 3.5ghz gpu clock based on redgamingtech rdna4 rumor.

I went with chiplets + a small 3nm die because we have many rumors that wafer costs are increasing with each new node.
Click to expand...

So wait, RGT is suggesting that they will switch from an APU to discrete chips, to push the GPU to 3nm? I'm not sure I buy that.
 
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My bet if it will release Q3/Q4 2024

N4X TSMC node aka 5nm++++
8c/16t mobile Zen4 ( 16MB unified L3) literally Phoenix APU
RDNA3+ 72CU ( 80CU full chip)
256bit bus with 28Gb/s GDDR7 ( double the speed of GDDR6 used in PS5 while at the same time slower than the 32Gb/s-36Gb/s chips for PC GPUs in late 2024). Sony will use the cheapest leftover chips that couldn't pass for the 32Gb/s rated speeds. Samsung will start PAM3 GDDR7 mass production in Q4 this year.

Same SSD speed but 2TB

What it will bring ?
GPU: Double the raster performance vs PS5 and way faster RT.
CPU: Thanks to Zen4 IPC and 16MB unified L3 ( 4x the effective L3 vs Zen2 in PS5) should be 50% faster in gaming tasks.
 
If the only increase is frame rate, then I am not interested in rushing right out to get one. Load times are already good as well, so that is another one. Now, if you make one with 4 times the space for installing games of current PS5, then maybe we can talk. But even then, still no rush. I eventually will get a second PS5 for the living room, but I am tired of the grind when new systems come out. first three years always sucks and the pandemic made it worse.
 
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Now some more predictions
PS5 Slim September this year
PS5 APU 10600 million tranistors

PS5 7nm 308mm2 (34.4MTr/mm2)
PS5 6nm 265mm2 (40MTr/mm2) ?
PS5 5nm 130mm2 (81.5MTr/mm2) ?

100W during gaming vs over 200W on standard PS5.
 
They're going to launch the Pro as a premium device with a significant premium. I think they're targeting $699-$799 for the Pro model. Alternatively, they're developing a Pro SOC that is going to be used in their data centres for PS5 cloud.

I Master l said:
Can Sony ditch the APU design without breaking the backward compatibility ?
Click to expand...

APU designs are the best for perf/watt. APU & SOC is why M1 Max chips are such beasts in performance.
 
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Loxus said:
Within a year of PS5 release, some wanted a PS5 Pro.

History will repeat itself.
Within a year of PS5 Pro release, it'll be the same thing over again.

"PS5 Pro not powerful enough, we need PS6"
Click to expand...

You just uncovered some huge revelation that consumers want improved options. Instead of limiting this information to this forum, you should tweet about it.
 
Imtjnotu said:
my prediction goes towards,

16gb Gddr6x or same amount of ram with a Wider bus

48CU GPU with a boost up to 2.5

same CPU
Click to expand...
for back compat reasons they will likely stick with the 20CUs per shader engine setup

PS4 - 1 shader engine, 20 CUs, 18 active
PS4 Pro - 2 shader engines, 2x20 CUs, 18+18=36 active
PS5 - 2 shader engines, 2x20 CUs, 36 active
PS5 Pro - 2/3/4 shader engines, 2/3/4 x20 CUs, 36/54/72 active

this is how they allow unpatched games to run without issue. the PS4 Pro and PS5 disable 1 shader engine when running regular PS4 games like Bloodborne that were only coded for 1 shader engine with 18 active CUs. while patched games use the full GPU and I bet PS5 Pro will be the same, whether they go with 2, 3 or 4 shader engines.
 
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Baki said:
APU designs are the best for perf/watt. APU & SOC is why M1 Max chips are such beasts in performance.
Click to expand...

M1 Max die size is huge and on the latest TSMC node, Sony cannot afford that
IMO there is no point of a PS5 Pro if the GPU is not 2 times faster with much faster
CPU and i am not sure this is achievable with an APU design
 
They're probably going to use the same design philosophy behind the PS4 PRO. Butterfly design for the GPU.
They will have a 5nm APU with 72CU based on the RDNA3.5/4 architecture.
Clock speed will be improved a bit, probably 24GB of RAM.
The performance improvements in ray tracing should be massive (4x the current PS5) and should allow to run current quality modes with more advanced ray tracing at 60fps instead of 30fps.
599$ launch price.
 
Last edited:
SmokSmog said:
My bet if it will release Q3/Q4 2024

N4X TSMC node aka 5nm++++
8c/16t mobile Zen4 ( 16MB unified L3) literally Phoenix APU
RDNA3+ 72CU ( 80CU full chip)
256bit bus with 28Gb/s GDDR7 ( double the speed of GDDR6 used in PS5 while at the same time slower than the 32Gb/s-36Gb/s chips for PC GPUs in late 2024). Sony will use the cheapest leftover chips that couldn't pass for the 32Gb/s rated speeds. Samsung will start PAM3 GDDR7 mass production in Q4 this year.

Same SSD speed but 2TB

What it will bring ?
GPU: Double the raster performance vs PS5 and way faster RT.
CPU: Thanks to Zen4 IPC and 16MB unified L3 ( 4x the effective L3 vs Zen2 in PS5) should be 50% faster in gaming tasks.
Click to expand...

2 TB is not possible. They could only double It. Would mean 1,650gb.
 
Elios83 said:
They're probably going to use the same design philosophy behind the PS4 PRO. Butterfly design for the GPU.
They will have a 5nm APU with 72CU based on the RDNA3.5/4 architecture.
Clock speed will be improved a bit, probably 24GB of RAM.
The performance improvements in ray tracing should be massive (4x the current PS5) and should allow to run current quality modes with more advanced ray tracing at 60fps instead of 30fps.
599$ launch price.
Click to expand...
54 CUs is more likely than 72 to keep costs down

and it def won't have 24 GB of RAM. it'll just be the same 16 GB but at 16-18 Gb/s
maybe they'll add a gig of slower DRAM for the OS like they did on PS4 Pro
 
I'd love to see a new sku featuring the specs being thrown around but there is no way Sony will release something that leaves little to no room for a true next-gen leap with the PS6. I for one believe the PS5 Pro if indeed an actual thing will be pretty much the same as the PS5 but with a beefier GPU and slightly faster RAM. It would probably support a few extra GPU features just like the PS4 Pro did. That's as much as we should expect. We certainly won't get some Zen 4+ 7000 series tier GPU monster as a mid-gen upgrade. Sorry to be that guy but it simply isn't happening.
 
This has been said but I don't think we'll get a PS4 pro equivalent upgrade because this time it's 4 years instead of 3. Having the same cpu clocked higher makes a lot of sense unless devs need more but I don't think the AMD gpu equivalent that's going into the Pro is even out yet plus it'll have customizations from whatever is in AMD's future road map, also something to keep in mind Polaris launched the same year as the Ps4 pro.
 
I Master l said:
Can Sony ditch the APU design without breaking the backward compatibility ?
Click to expand...
Absolutely not, and the reason we can buy base ps5 so cheaply and it only has current powerdraw (roughly 220 TDP, some games bit more) is coz its just like ps4/ps4pr0 and even xbox consoles, aka APU, if u had cpu and gpu on separate chips u would have to give ram and vram for each, they would have harder time communicating with eachother which would make them both slower too.

Rememeber how much trouble to code for devs for games to run properly was ps3? it had separate chip for cpu and for gpu, and memory wasnt shared, as u can see in the wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_technical_specifications

Im not saying ps3 was bad console- it had amazing games, but u guys remember famous 599$ back in 2006(ofc we got blu-ray drive, ps1/2 backwards compatibility etc), still price adjusted for current inflation was https://gyazo.com/ed8e6658e44d8220675701b130b45920 so over 900$ and sony was still loosing 200$ on each sold console early on.
 
kyliethicc said:
point is devs will still be making games that run at 30-40 fps on PS5

so a potential PS5 Pro could run some of them at 50-60

notice Sony's devs are adding unlocked framerate modes into their games. its future proofing. the "Pro patches" are already being built in now. a stronger PS5 Pro could boost Ratchet Rift Apart's current uncapped fidelity mode from ~40 fps to ~60 fps without any new dev work
Click to expand...
Nah fam
Full 4K | 3840*2160+ @60 FPS=Quality.

Balanced | 1400!-2160+ @120 FPS=Performance
Lowest ! | Highest resolution +

Both With Ray tracing.

Otherwise what's the point of project pro being executed.
 
plip.plop said:
It's for them to continue to make future games 4k 60fps. base ps5 will do 4k 30fps.
Click to expand...

They still have to have performance mode for base PS5, limiting it only to 30fps 4k modes would suck, as 30 fps is unplayable to some users/cases.

On OLED tv 30 fps -> microlag/stutter because pixel response time is instant and there are no smoothing blur like on lcd/qled. I get motion sickness from it almost instantly. First time I noticed it in ratchet&clank, got nausea and cold sweat while using quality mode and almost thought that I have a stroke etc lol. But it is the 30fps, same with most/all 30 fps games I have tried since.

I would just get pro model anyway, but there must be people whom have oled + get micro-lag-sickness + do not want to upgrade, so it would not be good strategy to keep gamers happy.
 
RJMacready73 said:
I've never experienced anything like that, UC4, TLOU2, R&C, SPIDERMAN etc etc all are buttery smooth on my LG at Quality settings aka 30/40fps

Would i prefer 60? of course but I'm not willing to sacrifice the drop in graphics when 40fps is perfectly fine again imo
Click to expand...
It's the motion blur. Oled requires good motion blur at 30fps to stand a chance. 40 fps too but it's much better. I am fine with 30 and 40 myself. Just replayed uc4 4k40 and it's butter
 
Loxus said:
From what Mark Cerny said, devs wanted 16 cores. Devs know better than us what they want in the hardware to create the game they want to make.

Click to expand...


That would make sense for the PS6, but you don't add more CPU cores for a mid gen upgrade within the same generation of a console. No dev will reconfigure their games for more cores when the base PS5 only has 8 cores.
 
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