Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)
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X-Wing
Member
Two possible scenarios:
- Microsoft has been bluffing about closing over the CMA to force the FTC to move. Microsoft will most likely try to use FTC's defeat as argument on the appeal to the CAT. That trial hasn't started yet.
- Microsoft is okay with paying the fine and fighting this in court long term. Worst case scenario they have to pay a fine and sell Activision back.
PaintTinJr
Member
The third place narrative in the context of this acquisition is BS.This deal is nothing more than Xbox trying for a shortcut to success that's it.Being third place has hurt them. Just Stating the bleading obvious.
How can they be third, when they have only ever been competing against one other company for marketing rights to the AAA markets essential inputs - CoD, GTA, AC, Fifa madden, etc, etc?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
And their revenue is more than Nintendo. 3rd in mindshare maybe.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It's quite literally what the CMA said:
I mean that's what the appeal is; an appeal of the decision the CMA made. The CMA then has to defend their decision during the appeal process.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Damn.....getting denied on a "last resort" doesn't sound good at all.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
On second thoughts, perhaps they wrote this as in, "this is our last request to file for a delay. We will not be able to defend this case in the best possible way because of the short deadline and prep time but we will do it anyway if it doesn't get postponed, but the CAT may expect some rough edges."
Who knows ... but it is still an interesting way to say this.
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Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Yes, and even if CAT does judge that the CMA hasn't acted appropriately in their initial decision, it doesn't stop the process, it's my understanding that it then goes back to the CMA to revise its case and/or possibly discuss suitable remedies.
This just seems to be that CMA probably doesn't have retained specialists on this case, they just get legal representation when they need and when available, so in the interests of justice would want to make sure whoever is working the case has time to be fully briefed to defend its position.
You never know though, this could be a move by the CMA to request more funds/resources to defend future cases of this size. This case may be sacrificed to achieve that... "This was so bad for customers, but we couldn't make the case with such poor funding, so the case collapsed"
bender
What time is it?
For fuck sake is 5 am here and i just lol hard here beside the girlfriend... take it easy
93xfan
Banned
Whatever happens, I really hope both stick around and do well. Don't trust either with a monopoly.I lost it when someone compared him to a post-menopausal woman/Karen
Eh, at this point, whatever happens, happens. Thankfully, the truth regarding Microsoft's intentions in gaming have come out and they can't run away to pretend it hasn't. Because if they do, I will remind them at every turn with the evidence.
And I'd suggest many others do the same. But at least MS would be able to take solace in getting ABK under their wing; a few people reminding them online about the truth shouldn't spoil their fun, right?
zapper
Member
this is impossible, if the cma were to abandon the case with a pathetic excuse like this they would be instantly nuked, no one would give them more funds. the existence of the cma wouldn't make any more sense
93xfan
Banned
Sega in the background... Coincidence, I think not.
Due to time zone differences, could this have been on Wednesday?
LiquidRex
Member
With regards to Sega this is one example the writing was on the wall with regards their relationship with Microsoft, Sports Interactive are a small studio but they're under Sega, this from 2020...
fyi Football Manager 2023 is available on PS5 I believe it's the first PlayStation version in the series, I could be wrong.
fyi Football Manager 2023 is available on PS5 I believe it's the first PlayStation version in the series, I could be wrong.
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bender
What time is it?
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It seems like there's a reason the CAT denied them so vigorously, and at the very least, it is the CAT's opinion that CMA is way off base here. They made a decision, they aren't supposed to be framing largely different arguments during an appeal, they are supposed to be defending the decision they already made.
If anything it should be the person ruled against who is given time to form their appeal, not the other way around. You frame it as MS "rushing" something into having the CMA make an error when we are talking about a process that costs MS billions of dollars if it keeps on going, so if anything this is the CMA trying to get MSFT/ATVI to abandon the deal by delaying.
It's my understanding that the CMA would still be granted more time to continue the litigation even if the appeal is accepted and the CAT rejects the CMA's decision.. so it doesn't make sense for them to be able to delay the appeal itself, it's not the end game.
I'm not in support of this deal, but I have also not been particularly impressed with any of the regulators here and their arguments.
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Topher
Identifies as young
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
People are getting melodramatic here. CAT appeal is all about due diligence, not the final descision.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Eh. Sony doesn't need Microsoft in order to provide value to the market, TBH. That has always been a contrived point; Nintendo doesn't have a direct competitor in the portable space but they've been providing very good value and quality for gaming and their core audience (although IMO their hardware is kinda trash).
It seems like Microsoft is more in need of Sony/PlayStation than the other way around, because they need a competitor to bounce off of and built their counter-brand image around. Sort of similar to how Sega in the West built the Genesis brand as a counter to the SNES.
In fact I think the parallels between those two is quite evident, MS had their "Genesis/MegaDrive" moment of success with the 360. Then both had their questionable add-ons (32X, Kinect), and follow-up failures (Saturn, Xbox One). Now Microsoft are at their Dreamcast stage; the main difference between them and Sega being Sega had strong 1P output but not enough money and not many games that were mainstream (Seaman was neat but very niche, for example).
Microsoft have overall middling-to-good 1P with little that is mainstream-big, too much money and not enough sense in how to actually use it. They're also running out of patience. People saying this is a last resort gamble for them might be onto something; it's either they get this deal as a life extension for Xbox as a console brand, or they don't but become a publisher on their own terms.
Or maybe they get ABK and still shift away from the console model, but shift Xbox as a PC gaming hardware brand instead. They're in a unique position to do that.
With regards to Sega this is one example the writing was on the wall with regards their relationship with Microsoft, Sports Interactive are a small studio but they're under Sega, this from 2020...
fyi Football Manager 2023 is available on PS5 I believe it's the first PlayStation vision in the series, I could be wrong.
FWIW usually a developer under a publisher doesn't need to pick & choose what platform to bring their game to, especially if said platform has the larger install base, unless it's an issue of lack of employees to handle a certain development version or lack of funds to do it.
In Sega's case they may provide some autonomy for various studios to decide what platforms to develop software for (they've done this with Atlus for example, dunno how much autonomy Atlus have these days though); since Football Manager is a primarily PC series, it was likely just easier for that team to port from PC to Xbox than from PC to PS4 or PS5, since Windows and Xbox share the same SDK (the GDK), and leverage the same suite of APIs.
Whereas, Sony have their own SDK and APIs different from DX12U (but comparable in features and general usage).
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bender
What time is it?
Rossco EZ
Member
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Much appreciated!
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Edit:
Additional context is that Tim Stuart said that Bethesda acquisition is not about exclusivity, but Microsoft will take a "first, better, or best on Xbox" approach.
"That's not a point about being exclusive," Stuart continued. "That's not a point about... adjusting timing or content or road map. But if you think about something like Game Pass, if it shows up best in Game Pass, that's what we want to see, and we want to drive our Game Pass subscriber base through that Bethesda pipeline."
However, it was a lie.
Stuart knew that they will take the games exclusive. That's what Phil is saying that "your words caused a lot of stir." And Tim says "Wish we could just say that the games will be exclusive."
Note that there is no "case-by-case" discussion in this email. Tim says, "we were taking it ALL exclusive."
Next time when somebody says "But Microsoft said case by case", redirect them to this post.
Edit 2: Just got this CONFIRMED by Matt Booty's internal email. "Case by case" was a lie.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
OOF lol
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Banjo64
cumsessed
Same as the other day, he will just say
'I said we can't say that because it's not true'
when everyone knows that he means
'we can't say that yet'.
Danwan224
Member
Xbox also are paying via gamepass
Topher
Identifies as young
bender
What time is it?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Well, yeah, that's true too. I think the only parallel with Sega & Microsoft on that though is Sega Channel. Sega did not push nor subsidize Sega Channel to anywhere near the degree Microsoft is doing with Game Pass though, and I wouldn't say Sega Channel hurt Sega in the Genesis > Saturn transition period.
Whereas Game Pass is definitely hurting Microsoft with 3P deals, B2P sales revenue, likely undercutting total division revenue targets internally too. It's unique unto Microsoft though and not something that has a clean parallel to Sega's time as platform holder, IMO.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
MS swearing under oath not to make COD exclusive probably means that Zenimax BS won't matter.
But we'll see.. they certainly look like the clowns most of us knew they were.
I remember back then I had an era account and was eviscerated for saying they were using wishy-washy language on purpose, and not to trust them.
It was hilarious because at the time you had a mix of Xbox fanboys literally crying about "WHY BUY THEM THEN? WHY IS MS GOING MULTIPLATFORM???" and XBox Fanboys going "MS would never lie, they will not be making games exclusive."
But we'll see.. they certainly look like the clowns most of us knew they were.
I remember back then I had an era account and was eviscerated for saying they were using wishy-washy language on purpose, and not to trust them.
It was hilarious because at the time you had a mix of Xbox fanboys literally crying about "WHY BUY THEM THEN? WHY IS MS GOING MULTIPLATFORM???" and XBox Fanboys going "MS would never lie, they will not be making games exclusive."
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Quoting myself here to add context.
Additional context is that Tim Stuart said that Bethesda acquisition is not about exclusivity, but Microsoft will take a "first, better, or best on Xbox" approach.
"That's not a point about being exclusive," Stuart continued. "That's not a point about... adjusting timing or content or road map. But if you think about something like Game Pass, if it shows up best in Game Pass, that's what we want to see, and we want to drive our Game Pass subscriber base through that Bethesda pipeline."
However, it was a lie.
Stuart knew that they will take the games exclusive. That's what Phil is saying that "your words caused a lot of stir." And Tim says "Wish we could just say that the games will be exclusive."
Note that there is no "case-by-case" discussion in this email. Tim says, "we were taking it ALL exclusive."
Next time when somebody says "But Microsoft said case by case", redirect them to this post.
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93xfan
Banned
Without MS, Sony could become like Valve.
Why throw out so much money into these big expensive AAAA games that could flop, when you can just take in that 30% and try to chase some trends (like Games as a Service).
If Xbox goes away, I'd anticipate Sony accelerating towards GaaS more than they already are. We'd certainly see Spider-Man and Naughty dog games, but I don't think we'd see as much creativity and risky ventures from them.
And don't be surprised if next gen patches become more expensive/mandatory for their next system.
"Oh, you'd still like to play that old PS5 game. Well that takes work, so pay up and we'll through in a resolution boost."
Before anyone laughs, I asked Bing AI about this and it agreed and helped me buy a second Xbox… for some reason.
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NickFire
Member
100% it may have been simple legal jargon when seeking a delay. It's not exactly unusual to make that basic type of claim if someone is looking to bring on new counsel or just hired new counsel. And I also have no clue how these proceedings work in the UK. So it could be a lot to do over nothing for all I know.
Basically, I wouldn't think twice about the denied application in a run of the mill case. It's just that this is not run of the mill IMO, and a trillion dollar entity is airing a lot of dirty laundry for someone without much to gain if the CMA block actually matters. So I am naturally suspicious if they have reason to know a win against FTC will be a win in CMA too.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Yeah they were lying.
And to some extent it was lip service to regulators I'm sure, although it seems like their main target was to not piss off gamers.
Just the most smarmy douchebags on earth. Never trust a C-suiter, they are sociopaths.
In the end though from a legal standpoint MS has now signed contracts and sworn under oath that it's different with COD. Chances are this will be an embarrassment for MS and nothing more, as it already pretty much was during the CMA case, and eventually that angle was completely dropped.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Oh damnnn!!!
I may have misheard it, but Zenimax did not want to make their games exclusive to Xbox and remove PlayStation. Booty conveyed this to Tim. Tim says that their feelings will be considered, but they are not [important?].
Something like that. I'll edit the post after finding more info about this if I can.
Edit: Derek covered some of this:
Now it makes sense why Pete Hines was frustrated learning that Phil is promising COD to remain multiplatform, while they went against Zenimax's leaders' wishes and made Zenimax games exclusive to Xbox.
I may have misheard it, but Zenimax did not want to make their games exclusive to Xbox and remove PlayStation. Booty conveyed this to Tim. Tim says that their feelings will be considered, but they are not [important?].
Something like that. I'll edit the post after finding more info about this if I can.
Edit: Derek covered some of this:
Now it makes sense why Pete Hines was frustrated learning that Phil is promising COD to remain multiplatform, while they went against Zenimax's leaders' wishes and made Zenimax games exclusive to Xbox.
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Moridianae
Member
We knew that it was all PR speak and once the deal was done, they'd usurp Activision and make each and every one of their IPs exclusive, the exact same thing they did with Bethesda.
bender
What time is it?
Isn't that email referring to the Bethesda-Zenimax acquisition deal?
I understand what the FTC's strategy is, to try to show that with Activision the intentions are the same. But the judge already has Spencer and Nadella's oath that COD will continue to launch on PS5 and future PS. Not to mention that the SLC in consoles has already been denied by all regulators based on market share and financial reports.
The FTC should be focusing in this process on the cloudgamind and is only tiptoeing in that regard.
But there are already Zenimax games that have continued to come out on PS5 and surely there are more .....You can say that "case by case" was PR and a lie, but the facts are what show the reality and the upcoming releases.
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POKEYCLYDE
Member
I know the hearing has started so this will probably get blown past, but would a preliminary injunction/temporary restraining order stop Microsoft and ABK from renegotiating their contract? Or does it just stop them from closing the deal?
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
You can't 'win' against CMA, the best-case scenario for MS is that CMA will re-review the whole thing (and that will take months) and still comes to the same basic conclusion only from the better position.
I've skimmed through the dociment and if anything, I have an impression that the CAT is just fed up with this drama and seek to end this buzz as fast as possible.
This doesn't take into account any onboarding for lawyers who could be new to attend and defend the CMA in the CAT hearing. It's not that there isn't a 400+ page document already outlining their decision but the fact that a new lawyer has to catch up on all this because MS expedited the CAT process so much. This is the CMAs argument, that their lawyers are not ready, not that their arguments aren't.
93xfan
Banned
Once valve became dominant in the PC space, did they focus on games as much, or just raking in the money from sales on Steam?
DrFigs
Member
Sega in the background... Coincidence, I think not.
I may have a crush on Sarah Bond, but this is not cute at all :/
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
MS established a baseline model and then later altered it because they wanted to make Zenimax games exclusive.
FTC is trying to establish that they can do the same after acquiring ABK, i.e., now it has become financially profitable to make those games exclusive.
FTC is trying to establish that they can do the same after acquiring ABK, i.e., now it has become financially profitable to make those games exclusive.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It just shows further intent of what MS (very likely) plan to actually do with ABK content if/when they acquire them.
The problem isn't actually so much they would make the content exclusive; they obviously understand the importance of exclusive content and it would be within their right since it's property now under their ownership.
The problem comes in the form that Microsoft have been massively hypocritical with their messaging around such strategies as attack points towards other competitors (namely, Sony) for YEARS, and have lied to gamers with their anti-exclusivity optics to try appearing "pro-consumer". Worst than that, they literally gave their word to regulatory bodies that they would NOT make all future Zenimax content exclusive post-acquisition, in order to get approval for the acquisition in those markets.
They specifically said they'd do case-by-case, with clear conditions required of that game to meet in order to be made a console exclusive. Conditions that a game like RedFall fulfilled, or (arguably) HiFi Rush (I think HiFi would've done better if on PS or especially the Switch given the style of game it is, but in the grand scope of things it is probably not a big seller regardless of platform and was a good value-add to Game Pass to cut down on churn & maybe net more subscribers). Conditions that games like Starfield and TES VI, do not meet.
It's all about establishing a pattern of MS being contradictory to their own statements with both gaming customers and regulators, and that everything they want to do with these acquisitions backs up that 2019 email from Matt Booty to "put PlayStation out of business". And who's to say they'd of stopped at PlayStation?
I don't really agree with a lot of this. For one, Sony's push into GaaS (which I'm hoping they're re-evaluating) is heavily driven by a growing need to become less dependent on 3P revenue cuts in a market that is facing mass consolidation of 3P content by competitors such as Microsoft. If direct competitors weren't trying to buy up many of the big 3P publishers, Sony's GaaS strategy wouldn't be as aggressive. They'd expand more into it, yes, but not at the rate we have seen as at least their current growth target in that space.
As for next-gen patches becoming more expensive, well that could happen regardless simply due to inflation and realities of increasing budgets in gaming development. An increase in that regard doesn't have to necessarily mean it's anti-consumer.
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