Digital Foundry: The Order: 1886 Retrospective + PS5 60fps Gameplay

ReBurn said:
If nothing else this shows why games take as long to make as they do. It takes a lot of effort to create a detailed game world. Ready at Dawn sacrificed the length and depth of the story in favor of the presentation. That's what earned the game the score it did. I would be ok with less graphical detail if it gets me games faster and with more depth.
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It's funny, there's so many responses in comments of, "How did they make a game this beautiful 10 years ago on outdated hardware?" and "What's wrong with developers today that PS5 can't easily outdo this old PS4 game?"... and then the actual video breakdown just goes into how it's smart decisions and painstaking research and hard work capturing and considering fine details to lay into every scene.

Ready at Dawn used some great techniques and tech, but the idea that this is a lost engine which would have been capable of untold greatness isn't necessarily the case; other studios are doing what this did (and more with later tech,) but RAD spent its budget on the details within the short run length. It's a work-smarter rather than a work-harder team, which can work but hits a wall when you can only make so much content for a project. (In that context, RAD being bought as a VR company seems smart, though it is a bit of a bummer that I don't have anything which can play their games at this time.)
 
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It blows my mind why it takes other people to fix these things. If its not hard, why not just do it and get some sales out of it?
 
The amount of cutscenes and dialogue that litelary kill this game, because this game have a huge potential and totally wasted in this cutscene crusade bullshit.
 
MikeM said:
It blows my mind why it takes other people to fix these things. If its not hard, why not just do it and get some sales out of it?
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Legal matters may make it difficult. Sony possibly doesn't have the contractual allowance to just crack open the code and assign its own staffers to rewrite another studio's nearly-10-year-old work (even if it was work-for-hire for Sony as publisher). It also requires passing the game back through QA and doing other checkups. None of this should be impossible for Sony to pull out its wallet and make happen, but even tiny little things like this eventually take so much work inside a corporate machine that the company may be too unwieldy to get done what a hacker at home can do in spare time.
 
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Fake said:
The amount of cutscenes and dialogue that litelary kill this game, because this game have a huge potential and totally wasted in this cutscene crusade bullshit.
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Also the low enemy variety, laughably bad bosses (including a recycled final boss), 7 hour run time with basically zero replay value, incomplete feeling sequel bait story and a complete misunderstanding of the fact that cinematic games are supposed to make you feel like you are playing a movie....not watching one.
 
I rather play Ryse than this trash any day. The only thing The Order 1886 had going was its visuals and that's it. The gameplay is almost none-existant. Literal walking Simulator. I beat this "game" in like 3 hours and got all trophies. Utter trash.
 
Clear said:
Don't blame Sony. The reactions to this game at launch were vicious.

People were shitting on it for everything from the aspect ratio down, acting like black bars were somehow short-changing them... real retarded stuff.
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Them graphics hurt a lot of feelings at the time. Those threads were wild.
 
Chuck Berry said:
It doesn't overstay it's welcome whatsoever, which is an extreme rarity nowadays.

Instead, you're left wanting so much more..😔

Fuck it, reinstalling
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Same. Gonna give it another run this weekend. Then cry inside that the cliffhanger ending won't be resolved any time soon, or if ever.
 
cash_longfellow said:
Serious question…can anyone remember why people were so hard on this game? I somewhat remember it being mostly about the length of it, but can't fully remember.
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Because video games are not tech demos. And they only managed to pump out those graphics because they made half the screen black and it's a scripted hallway simulator.
 
why is everyone acting like the community didn't dog pile this game for no reason back when it came out lol

still looks more interesting and advanced than titles coming out today lol
 
YeulEmeralda said:
Because video games are not tech demos. And they only managed to pump out those graphics because they made half the screen black and it's a scripted hallway simulator.
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I love getting smartass answers to serious questions like this. Really a great reminder why forums nowadays are bleak as shit.
 
The Order 1886 is pretty. Yes, we know. The problem is Ready at Dawn spent all their time making it look nice and almost no time on the actual gameplay. Cinematic, covered based, third person shooter's tend to be snore fests in general. But in this game Nicola freakin' Tesla is your weaponsmith. There should have been fun, crazy guns up and down the whole game. Instead, you spend 98% of the game using a pistol and a rifle.
 
It has been a long time, but the analysis video was certainly appreciated. Very well done overall.

Just one little correction, since this one has been repeated non stop since before the game was even released, and it is presented as factual even in the video: the black bars were never about performance, they were an artistic decision.

First, like the vast majority of games over the last 2 generations of consoles, The Order was *heavily* CPU bound. Fill rate was rarely an issue on PS4, never on this game other than in the one or two instances when artists got carried away with full screen FX. Savings from not rasterizing the pixels where the bars are were negligible.

Second, the bars were there from the start. You can check out the PC prototype we had running in 2012, long before the PS4 specs were even decided upon, much less finalized, and the black bars were already there. Concept art from 2011 already had the black bars.

The aspect ratio has profound implications for lighting and framing, which is way it was felt that the warmer, more epic vibe of wide photography would benefit the mood and artistic feel of the game. It was an experiment, like many others in the game, and it was obviously one that was firmly rejected by players - I assure you we would not make the same choice again if we had the opportunity to do so.

Still, like the result or hate it, the suggestion that the black bars somehow allowed us to push the visuals we did is, and has always been, completely inaccurate.
 
Andrea Pessino said:
It has been a long time, but the analysis video was certainly appreciated. Very well done overall.

Just one little correction, since this one has been repeated non stop since before the game was even released, and it is presented as factual even in the video: the black bars were never about performance, they were an artistic decision.

First, like the vast majority of games over the last 2 generations of consoles, The Order was *heavily* CPU bound. Fill rate was rarely an issue on PS4, never on this game other than in the one or two instances when artists got carried away with full screen FX. Savings from not rasterizing the pixels where the bars are were negligible.

Second, the bars were there from the start. You can check out the PC prototype we had running in 2012, long before the PS4 specs were even decided upon, much less finalized, and the black bars were already there. Concept art from 2011 already had the black bars.

The aspect ratio has profound implications for lighting and framing, which is way it was felt that the warmer, more epic vibe of wide photography would benefit the mood and artistic feel of the game. It was an experiment, like many others in the game, and it was obviously one that was firmly rejected by players - I assure you we would not make the same choice again if we had the opportunity to do so.

Still, like the result or hate it, the suggestion that the black bars somehow allowed us to push the visuals we did is, and has always been, completely inaccurate.
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Was there ever talk about a sequel for the game? I feel the world and characters built were interesting and it warranted a sequel to refine and ultimately improve on the oriignal formula. A shame really. I was there on day 1. I hope one day we get a remaster with higher resolution and frame rates. Still to this day, one of the more impressive particles, lightning and atmosphere i have seen on a game.
 
dEvAnGeL said:
Was there ever talk about a sequel for the game? I feel the world and characters built were interesting and it warranted a sequel to refine and ultimately improve on the oriignal formula. A shame really. I was there on day 1. I hope one day we get a remaster with higher resolution and frame rates. Still to this day, one of the more impressive particles, lightning and atmosphere i have seen on a game.
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There was more than talk - we pitched a sequel, they "absolutely loved it" (or so they claimed, at least), but decided not to pursue. Their prerogative, of course, so that was it.
 
Andrea Pessino said:
It has been a long time, but the analysis video was certainly appreciated. Very well done overall.

Just one little correction, since this one has been repeated non stop since before the game was even released, and it is presented as factual even in the video: the black bars were never about performance, they were an artistic decision.

First, like the vast majority of games over the last 2 generations of consoles, The Order was *heavily* CPU bound. Fill rate was rarely an issue on PS4, never on this game other than in the one or two instances when artists got carried away with full screen FX. Savings from not rasterizing the pixels where the bars are were negligible.

Second, the bars were there from the start. You can check out the PC prototype we had running in 2012, long before the PS4 specs were even decided upon, much less finalized, and the black bars were already there. Concept art from 2011 already had the black bars.

The aspect ratio has profound implications for lighting and framing, which is way it was felt that the warmer, more epic vibe of wide photography would benefit the mood and artistic feel of the game. It was an experiment, like many others in the game, and it was obviously one that was firmly rejected by players - I assure you we would not make the same choice again if we had the opportunity to do so.

Still, like the result or hate it, the suggestion that the black bars somehow allowed us to push the visuals we did is, and has always been, completely inaccurate.
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Some players really hated it, probably a very vocal minority on forums like these.

Same people that are absolutely horrified by every post effect that simulates a camera lens.

I'll say without those effects and the aspect ratio it wouldn't feel the same. Even watching that gameplay video from DF with 16x9 it's not an improvement at all.
 
Hero of Spielberg said:
Is the Order in the PS+ game catalogue?
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Nope and it's been since late 2020 that it's gone on deep discount (not the deepest but $4.99). Looks like it regularly goes on sale for $9.99.

Never played the game but I adore the theming. I think I wrote it off due to all the negative reception.
 
bender said:
Nope and it's been since late 2020 that it's gone on deep discount (not the deepest but $4.99). Looks like it regularly goes on sale for $9.99.

Never played the game but I adore the theming. I think I wrote it off due to all the negative reception.
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Yeah, same. Would love to try it out, but I like my gaming money to go a long way and unfortunately there's better options on discount for me at the moment! I shall continue to bide my time!
 
Andrea Pessino said:
There was more than talk - we pitched a sequel, they "absolutely loved it" (or so they claimed, at least), but decided not to pursue. Their prerogative, of course, so that was it.
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Despite all its flaws, I loved the order 1886. I was really hoping that you guys would join the PS Studios given your history with PlayStation.

It still hurts, all these years later.
 
Andrea Pessino said:
There was more than talk - we pitched a sequel, they "absolutely loved it" (or so they claimed, at least), but decided not to pursue. Their prerogative, of course, so that was it.
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Ciao Andrea !

I Just want to say that The order was one of the most interesting games of the previous generation, I'll - unfortunately - have to agree with others that it was light on content but...the rest was absolutely sublime, the tech, general direction, art-direction, sound production, voice acting, animations were just...chef's kiss.jpg.

It's a shame then that a sequel was never green lit since this game is a prime example of a game that could improve lots just by adding a couple of things since the foundations were already there :

- Game length : a sequel would benefit just by being 5-7 hours longer.
Shorter games definitely have their audience and not everything has to be a 50-60 hours Ubisoft-athon like most games nowadays but, asking people 60-70 eurodollars for a 5-6 hours experience is just not a good look (especially since the 1st game had no replayability whatsoever).

- Less (bad) QTEs : QTEs have their place, they just have to be good.

- A Multiplayer horde-like mode : while this (nowadays) sounds cliche', a horde mode would have really benefited regarding the game's longevity, plus, it would have really showcased the game's gunplay and variety of weapons which were actually good (the little that there was in the main game unfortunately).

- A central hub : it would be so cool having to visit Tesla before each mission as to prep up.

And...this would be pretty much it, a sequel would have benefited just by adding a couple of things, no need to reinvent the wheel, the art direction was already fantastic, the characters are already there, the weapons were cool as was the story, which brings me to : G'damn if this game isn't the best example of a game needing/deserving a sequel 😔

It's just a friggin' shame, EVERYTHING was/is already in place for something much greater, plus, THAT ending...it still gives me the chills, shame then that it ended on such a cliffhanger...
Actually, was the cliffhanger on purpose ? meaning, did you know back then whether the game would receive a sequel or not ?

Also, please try to throw a bone here friend , is there any chance, ANY, about a sequel ? Does Sony own the rights to the game btw or you'd have to be involved for such a thing to happen ?

Thanks for trying to deliver something different, I really enjoyed the title and a sequel would be a dream come true , a man can hope, right ? (riiight ? ).

Cheers
 
Bumblebeetuna said:
Shit story
Incredibly cliche gameplay

I mean it was a full priced four hour game.



Here's a great review for the game.
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A whole lot of exaggeration here. The gameplay I'm with you on. But the story was solid and you weren't finishing this game in 4 hours unless you b-lined it and skipped everything. You got burned for full price, didn't you? 😂
 
Really wish this game would get PC port instead of Sackboys and whatnot.

Well, PC port and proper, larger, RPGish sequel. That victorian semi-fantasy arthurian setting is so amazing, dammit.
 
cash_longfellow said:
A whole lot of exaggeration here. The gameplay I'm with you on. But the story was solid and you weren't finishing this game in 4 hours unless you b-lined it and skipped everything. You got burned for full price, didn't you? 😂
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What is there to skip? There is exactly zero exploration and no side content. I guess if you looked in every corner of every corridor and room you can squeeze out five hours or so but again, it took me a smidge over four for the platinum, so obviously I didn't skip anything.

Story was a far cry from solid. It was as cliche as the gameplay. I encourage you to watch the review in the quote you posted.

I didn't buy the game because of the reviews saying the game was super short. In fact I remember reviewers getting hate for daring to suggest the game was shorter than 12 hours. Turned out it's four hours. I either used GameFly or Redbox, I don't remember.

I have to edit to add in an honorable mention for them literally reusing the boss fight from early in the game for the final boss fight 😆 Like same sounds and animation, everything.

$5 is the max anyone should spend on the game. But this is a thread about a DF analysis, I'll stop shitting on the game now.
 
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Bumblebeetuna said:
What is there to skip? There is exactly zero exploration and no side content. I guess if you looked in every corner of every corridor and room you can squeeze out five hours or so but again, it took me a smidge over four for the platinum, so obviously I didn't skip anything.

Story was a far cry from solid. It was as cliche as the gameplay. I encourage you to watch the review in the quote you posted.

I didn't buy the game because of the reviews saying the game was super short. In fact I remember reviewers getting hate for daring to suggest the game was shorter than 12 hours. Turned out it's four hours. I either used GameFly or Redbox, I don't remember.

I have to edit to add in an honorable mention for them literally reusing the boss fight from early in the game for the final boss fight 😆 Like same sounds and animation, everything.

$5 is the max anyone should spend on the game. But this is a thread about a DF analysis, I'll stop shitting on the game now.
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I don't need to watch the review, I played the game lol.

Skip referring to cutscenes…you know exactly what I meant, come on now 🤦‍♂️
 
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cash_longfellow said:
A whole lot of exaggeration here. The gameplay I'm with you on. But the story was solid and you weren't finishing this game in 4 hours unless you b-lined it and skipped everything. You got burned for full price, didn't you? 😂
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Opinions, man. You may not agree with the Pre Rec review, but I and many others 100% do. What is not an opinion is though is the game length. My first time finishing it, I did so in two 2.5 hour sessions. I skipped no cutscenes and 100% platinumed the game. My second time I did so in two 2 hour sessions.
 
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Andrea Pessino said:
There was more than talk - we pitched a sequel, they "absolutely loved it" (or so they claimed, at least), but decided not to pursue. Their prerogative, of course, so that was it.
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This pains me. The story and universe that was crafted had its hooks deep in me. Especially that cliffhanger ending.

One thing I and I am sure many fans of the story are wondering... were The Order vampires (since they had no reflections), humans drinking the blood of vampires (maybe Dracula's) for longevity, or drinking from "the holy grail" blood of Christ to keep their fountain of youth?
 
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MALpractice311 said:
Opinions, man. You may not agree with the Pre Rec review, but I and many others 100% do. What is not an opinion is though is the game length. My first time finishing it, I did so in two 2.5 hour sessions. I skipped no cutscenes and 100% platinumed the game. My second time I did so in two 2 hour sessions.
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That's all well and fine, I'm not saying the game is good or great. I'm saying that people exaggerate the hate. You are clearly playing a game for the trophies based on your comments, that's cool, I have almost 200 platinum trophies myself. With all due respect, you sound like you b-lined for the trophies.

To your other point…I don't watch other peoples reviews for games I've already played. I have always, and always will, form my own opinions on a game when/if I play said game. Reviews are for sheep.
 
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cash_longfellow said:
That's all well and fine, I'm not saying the game is good or great. I'm saying that people exaggerate the hate. You are clearly playing a game for the trophies based on your comments, that's cool, I have almost 200 platinum trophies myself. With all due respect, you sound like you b-lined for the trophies.

To your other point…I don't watch other peoples reviews for games I've already played. I have always, and always will, form my own opinions on a game when/if I play said game. Reviews are for sheep.
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So by reading, watching, and/or listening to someone's else opinion, that makes me a sheep? I guess you better tell that to everyone who's every read a movie or music review too. Taking your assertion to the next level, if I have a conversation with my friends about a topic and some of them have the same opinions as me and some have differing opinions, does that also make me a sheep?
 
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