Mr.Phoenix
Member
What do you mean by more efficient?
Digital Foundry - Playstation 5 Pro specs analysis, also new information
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
TheRedRiders
Member
TH's article mentioned that the memory was improved by 28% or something but that there could be further improvements because the memory was more efficient. I can't remember the exact wording.
I think RDNA 3/4 have made further optimisations to the cache, a big problem with RDNA 3 was the GPU would often choke on performance because of the poorly designed cache hierarchy. This problem is likely fixed with RDNA 3.5 and 4, and especially the Pro because a poor cache structure could make the console overheat and increase power consumption.
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winjer
Member
Where did you see such a thing?
winjer
Member
But that is not because there are issues with RDNA2 cache structure. In fact, it's very good. It's better than the cache in Ampere.
And it's the only reason why RDNA2 memory subsystem can keep up with Ampere, despite the vram being significantly slower.
Here are 2 examples, showing bandwidth and latency in RDNA2. As you can see, latency is lower than Ampere and bandwidth is higher.
The reason why they say it's more efficient, is because there is almost always improvements in cache sizes, latency and bandwidth, with every generation.
And also improvements with data compression, schedulers, etc.
But RDNA2 cache structure was very good for it's time.
And it's the only reason why RDNA2 memory subsystem can keep up with Ampere, despite the vram being significantly slower.
Here are 2 examples, showing bandwidth and latency in RDNA2. As you can see, latency is lower than Ampere and bandwidth is higher.
The reason why they say it's more efficient, is because there is almost always improvements in cache sizes, latency and bandwidth, with every generation.
And also improvements with data compression, schedulers, etc.
But RDNA2 cache structure was very good for it's time.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Does it keep up? Because RDNA2 cards are notorious for falling apart the higher the resolution. 6800 XT beats the 3080 at 1080p, narrowly loses or matches it at 1440, and then gets soundly beaten at 4K.
winjer
Member
That is because cache hit rates decrease as resolution goes up.
So although the cache is doing wonders, it can't do miracles.
Just for perspective, this is how big the difference is in vram bandwidth between the 6900XT and the 3090.
That cache is trying to making up for a deficit of more than double the memory bandwidth of the 3090.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Well in that case, the only way I can see there being any improvements outside raw bandwidth, is that there is more GPU cache.
Eg, the PS5 has an L2 cache of 4MB (no L3 cache). Its likely that this cache could have been doubled to 8MB or even tripled to 12MB. Having more cache reduces how often the GPU has to go to main RAM, and in turn gives it a perceived increase in overall bandwidth. Or as the stuff you referenced put it, making it more efficient.
Perrott
Member
"I understand that developers can start requesting development kits as of now and that Sony expects that all games submited for certification starting in August would be compatible with PS5 Pro."
A friend just messaged me this during a work break, but didn't mention who the source of that quote was. It's not verbatim either. Does anyone know if it is from Tom Henderson or some other reporter?
A friend just messaged me this during a work break, but didn't mention who the source of that quote was. It's not verbatim either. Does anyone know if it is from Tom Henderson or some other reporter?
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Its a line from the Verges article Tom Warren posted today
https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/15/24130716/sony-ps5-pro-specs-release-date-rumors
Sony is getting ready to release a more powerful PS5 console, possibly by the end of this year. After reports of leaked PS5 Pro specifications surfaced recently, The Verge has obtained a full list of specs for the upcoming console. Sources familiar with Sony's plans tell me that developers are already being asked to ensure their games are compatible with this upcoming console, with a focus on improving ray tracing.
Codenamed Trinity, the PlayStation 5 Pro model will include a more powerful GPU and a slightly faster CPU mode. All of Sony's changes point to a PS5 Pro that will be far more capable of rendering games with ray tracing enabled or hitting higher resolutions and frame rates in certain titles. Sony appears to be encouraging developers to use graphics features like ray tracing more with the PS5 Pro, with games able to use a "Trinity Enhanced" (PS5 Pro Enhanced) label if they "provide significant enhancements."
Sony expects GPU rendering on the PS5 Pro to be "about 45 percent faster than standard PlayStation 5," according to documents outlining the upcoming console. The PS5 Pro GPU will be larger and use faster system memory to help improve ray tracing in games. Sony is also using a "more powerful ray tracing architecture" in the PS5 Pro, where the speed here is up to three times better than the regular PS5.
"Trinity is a high-end version of PlayStation 5," reads one document, with Sony indicating it will continue to sell the standard PS5 after this new model launches. Sony is expecting game developers to have a single package that will support both the PS5 and PS5 Pro consoles, with existing games able to be patched for higher performance.
I understand developers are able to order test kits right now and that Sony is expecting every game submitted to certification in August to be compatible with the PS5 Pro. Insider Gaming first reported the full PS5 Pro specs and indicated the console is set to release during the 2024 holiday period.
While Sony is improving the GPU side of the PS5 Pro, the CPU will be the same as the standard PS5 but with a new mode that clocks it higher. "Trinity has a mode that targets 3.85GHz CPU frequency," says Sony in a document to developers. That's around 10 percent more than the regular PS5. Sony will offer developers the ability to pick between a "standard mode" at 3.5GHz or the "high CPU frequency mode" at 3.85GHz.
The standard mode operates just like a regular PS5, where a certain amount of power is allocated to the CPU — it runs at 3.5GHz if the power budget allows for it or lower frequencies if the PS5 is performing "power-intensive operations." Sony says these lower frequencies are rare and that unused power on the CPU side is sent to the GPU.
In this new high CPU frequency mode for the PS5 Pro, more power is allocated to the CPU, which means slightly less to the GPU. The GPU is downclocked by around 1.5 percent in this mode, which results in "roughly 1 percent lower performance," according to Sony.
The PS5 Pro will also have some changes to system memory for developers. The standard PS5 memory runs at 448GB/s, but Sony is bumping this up by 28 percent to 576GB/s on the PS5 Pro. As the memory system is more efficient on the PS5 Pro, "the bandwidth gain may exceed 28 percent," says Sony.
Developers will also get more access to overall system memory. Games can use an additional 1.2GB of system memory on the PS5 Pro, so that's 13.7GB overall compared to the 12.5GB allocated to games on the base PS5.
The increase in memory speed and allocations "may be useful" for Sony's new PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution (PSSR) support. This is essentially Sony's upscaling answer to Nvidia's DLSS or AMD's FSR to improve frame rates and image quality on PlayStation. Sony has built a "custom architecture for machine learning" on the PS5 Pro, which supports 300TOPS of 8-bit computation.
This new architecture supports Sony's custom PSSR upscaling solution, which is designed to replace a game's existing temporal anti-aliasing or upsampling implementation. Sony notes that "inputs are quite similar to DLSS or FSR" and that full HDR support is included. This support requires around 250MB of memory, which is why the memory allocations on the PS5 Pro should help here.
Sony says there is around 2ms of latency involved in upscaling a 1080p image to 4K and that the company is working to support resolutions up to 8K and even improve the latency in the future.
If developers are able to get their games ready in time, I fully expect to see a PS5 Pro launch this holiday season. Sony appears to be following the same playbook as the PS4, with a "Slim" PS5 model and then a Pro edition. I'm expecting to see an "enhanced" library of existing games for the PS5 Pro launch and new first-party games arriving over time with improved ray-tracing support for this new console.
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Perrott
Member
Oh, nice, thanks Heisenberg.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Also if we needed more confirmation
Bernoulli
M2 slut
I wonder if this is what xbox got wrong by putting slower split memory on the larger GPU
What if games run better on the X when a game uses only the 10gb @560
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
All i need at this point is the price tbh
skit_data
Member
Huh, a bit late for that one would think. It's been up for several weeks and the info in it has already been recited in most games media
HeisenbergFX4
Member
It is odd they waited this long to strike it now that so many others have the same docs
Daneel Elijah
Member
All I need is a way to get ahead of the bots. And maybe a good game bundled with it.
Imtjnotu
Member
Pre order through sony... No bots
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I know some don't like it when I tease but todays info from Warren wasn't even the info I was teasing last week that was coming
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
I have Direct in Portugal so honestly? I think i may just do that.
TheRedRiders
Member
I feel like we already know enough about the console - like what more can there be to surprise us? secret RDNA 7 features? lol
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Why don't platform holders (and wouldn't it be great), mandate certain features for platform support to allow for the game to pass certification? Eg. On PS5 mandates that every game MUST have a 1800p/2160@30fps mode and a performance mode of 1080p-1440p@60fps.
At this point what or all we need to see now is just PSSR in action.
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Moridianae
Member
I know some don't like it when I tease but todays info from Warren wasn't even the info I was teasing last week that was coming
I mean, I don't know what more could really be out there outside of a price estimate and a release window.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
If they want every dev to hate them, they could do that. If I were a developer, I wouldn't want Sony to dictate to me how my game must run. If I decide to make a super duper ambitious game that has an internal res of 720p, that's my prerogative. If Sony ain't happy, they can take a hike and I'd just take my business elsewhere.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
I know some don't like it when I tease but todays info from Warren wasn't even the info I was teasing last week that was coming
What did you tease?
Physiognomonics
Member
No. those chips would be certified by the manufacturer at some precise speed and Sony would never ever modify either the voltage or the speed. It's likely more caches / better compression that would utilize the bandwidth better.
I don't know man. If you are going to give some impressive tflops figures for the next xbox then, like DF, you are litteraly being used by MS for their propaganda campaign to counter Sony's PS5 Pro. The same way 6 tflops then 12 tflops specs got 'leaked' unexpectedly to counter Sony consoles.I know some don't like it when I tease but todays info from Warren wasn't even the info I was teasing last week that was coming
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
We know the specs. We dont know how it will all come together. It's hard to see Cerny settle for 45% more performance so he clearly has something up his sleeve. Maybe once we actually see games like Spiderman 2 run with more than one RT effect things will start to click.
it will come down to games, and i hope Cerny has talked to Massive, Remedy, CD Project and other devs that left out RT in 60 fps modes to try and get them to show their games at the reveal. 45% more GPU performance or vague 2-4 rt speed claims mean nothing without seeing games in action and unfortunately they have no first party games other than insomniac titles that feature RT. The main selling point of this console. So they have to rely upon devs of those games to provide us with better resolutions for those games.
I would love to see star wars add the RT back in performance mode. That game is CPU bound as fuck with RT on, but if they can get 1080p 60 fps with rt up from the 640p they were dropping to on base PS5 then that would convince me.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I am not being used by MS, I can promise you that
I just give people heads up when I hear something I am sure is going to leak soon anyhow
I don't think I have given an exact number of TFs that I heard for the nextbox though I did give a window of TFs for this PS5 Pro literally a year ago.
Maybe someone else started the whole nextbox coming much earlier than PS6 but think I told everyone here I had heard that months ago sharing on Aug 2nd
Trust me, no one is using me
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, I figured they couldn't just play around with the voltages but the wording is odd because they state that "the bandwidth gain may increase by over 28%" which isn't exactly what is happening. It's still an increase of 28% but instead of an effective 540GB/s, you may hit 566GB/s (just giving random numbers). The wording makes it sound like the bandwidth will go past 576GB/s when it's really that it will use it better.
rm082e
Member
That would inevitably wind up putting some of their key software partners in a bind. Developers target a given rez/frame rate when they start a project, but over time there can be compromises made to either in service of making the game. Let's say AAA game dev has developed a game for the last four years and as they're about to go gold, the frame rate is in the 50s most of the time. Is Sony going to prevent them from launching their game? If they took that stance, other developers would have to ask themselves if they want to risk spending years of work and millions of dollars on a project that Sony might reject at the last minute. It's just not realistic.
If you as a gamer have gotten to the point that you really care about a consistent resolution and frame rate in your games, then you should consider moving to PC. You can always solve this issue on the PC by buying more powerful hardware. I made this switch in 2011 and it's been amazing. Every game at 60fps is glorious.
Replacing your console every 3 years with the launch/pro cycle will probably help, but we saw PS4 games that never got a performance patch for the Pro (Bloodborne for example). And there were plenty of games that used the extra power of the Pro to increase resolution or AA, not the frame rate. I would expect the same from the PS5 Pro.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Yeah, it just wouldn't make sense for Sony to start ordering developers around with metrics they decide upon. At that point, they might as well order for their games to be X amount of time or use Y engine (I'm exaggerating, but you get the point). The certifications as far as I'm aware are there to make sure the games don't break the system, lead to security breaches, and other important things both concerning legal issues and software environments. There's almost nothing about how a game must look or perform.
The Cyberpunk fiasco was because CDPR, if I'm not mistaken, started telling people to ask for refunds and they had to go through Sony for that and Sony didn't wanna take the heat. There was also a form of misleading marketing that could have (and did lead?) to lawsuits so Sony wanted nothing to do with that. You have games like Lichdom Battlemage that run even worse than Cyberpunk ever did but never got taken off the store.
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Xtib81
Member
I'd hope so because Warren hasn't revealed anything that wasn't already known. Is it coming this week?I know some don't like it when I tease but todays info from Warren wasn't even the info I was teasing last week that was coming
Moridianae
Member
Imtjnotu
Member
I know some don't like it when I tease but todays info from Warren wasn't even the info I was teasing last week that was coming
peish
Member
He probably took it down himself, a nice act to brings more credibility!
realcool
Member
rm082e
Member
Man...that Cyberpunk thing was an amazing train wreck to watch. I'm firmly in the "don't preorder games" camp (unless it's from software). I hope it trained a lot of people to not get too caught up in the marketing hype. Thankfully the did the work to right the ship with that game, but oooffff.
Et3rn1ty
Neo Member
This is probably my 3rd time typing in this forum although i am here from the beginning of hypothetical specs of ps5.
For those who remember all the fake leakers ,osiris,pigeon man,etc.. your the only one that i trust and seek for true info and leaks...
I really hate when some people judge you for not reason and i sincere hope to not stop in the near future provide us with info
I wish you well to you and your family
Greetings from Greece!!!!
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Thank you for those kind words.
I only share bits that I think I can without flying too close to the sun simply because I like this community, well about 95% of you fuckers anyhow
I don't try to drive people to any social medias or watch Youtube videos I do it for the love of excitement from fellow gamers, even if my batting average isn't perfect
CloudShiner
Member
'Teeth' Leadbetter trying to piss on PS5 Pro again in the DF direct....what a sap. Ruling out 40fps modes now, calling it a niche and insignificant product. Totally fixated on the small CPU bump as his answer to anything to do with it, and pretending PSSR and the GPU changes don't exist. Oliver at least did his best to contradict without upsetting the bald one.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
Anything they can to downplay it
They can't stand the thought of Sony having the clear cut best place to play games with the Pro in all their head to head showdowns
I hope some ppl don't confuse you having info about something they don't like or wanna hear as having an agenda. I don't even know how to describe it.Thank you for those kind words.
I only share bits that I think I can without flying too close to the sun simply because I like this community, well about 95% of you fuckers anyhow
I don't try to drive people to any social medias or watch Youtube videos I do it for the love of excitement from fellow gamers, even if my batting average isn't perfect
There are times ppl that are ultra reliable have info I don't necessarily like or agree with. And that's fine, we just need to be civil and adults about it.
I guess it's a case of "don't shoot the messenger"
proandrad
Member
Until Sony gives them early access on hardware so they can make a video on it, the salt will continue.
Daneel Elijah
Member
I have yet to try it so it seems that the Pro will be the occasion to do so.
Physiognomonics
Member
He is following his pro-Xbox script like clockwork and he has being since the PS3 vs X360 days. He is that good soldier fighting tooth and nail for that trillion dollars company. This is going to be his sad legacy to this world.
CloudShiner
Member
Indeed. The hypocrite was praising the Xbox One X to the hilt the other week.....SOME mid-gen refreshes are totally fine, apparently.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I don't even know why y'all listening to DF when it comes to leaks and specs.
Alex is the only one in the crew who actually knows how these specs translate to performance but he's a PCMR and hardly cares about the PS5 Pro. DF is good to get game benchmarks and performance profiles. I tend to ignore the rest of their stuff, especially when it comes to hardware because their knowledge in that area is sorely lacking.
Alex is the only one in the crew who actually knows how these specs translate to performance but he's a PCMR and hardly cares about the PS5 Pro. DF is good to get game benchmarks and performance profiles. I tend to ignore the rest of their stuff, especially when it comes to hardware because their knowledge in that area is sorely lacking.
skit_data
Member
Don't know why it took Kinda Funny so long to pick up the pace but it definitely seems it's out in the open everywhere now.
They should just go ahead and have their Cerny ASMR talk on the specs. Wasn't the PS5 specs revealed in march the same year it launched? We're kinda overdue by now
Edit: I actually had to check if I could find any of the larger media outlets (non gaming related) in sweden reporting on the PS5 Pro, just to get a sense of how wide it has spread. They actually have, even mentioning Tom Henderson and Moores Law is Dead:
Rykte: Playstation 5 Pro släpps till jul
Sony ska enligt färska och ännu obekräftade rykten ha en mer avancerad version av sin spelkonsol Playstation 5 på gång till jul. Det rapporterar sajten Insider Gamings Tom Henderson, som också konstaterar att detaljer om konsolen läckt ut via Youtubekanalan Moore’s Law is Dead.
omni.se
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