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[Ashamam]

If it wasn't for PSSR, it would be a negligible upgrade.

But it does have PSSR and thats obviously integral to their decision making.

 

[midnightAI]

The PS5 Pro is performing as expected. It has the same CPU running at roughly the same speed. It's like the PS4 Pro but worse
That had more than double the GPU power and the same CPU. Game like God of War 2016 went from 30 to about 45 on the PRO at the time with more than double the GPU performance and it's about 45% this time. A 5 to 7 fps gain is about right. If it wasn't for PSSR, it would be a negligible upgrade. I still want one but I will wait to see how PSSR is implemented going forward as that the only benefit.

But it does have PSSR, so thats irrelevant

and the 5-7 fps gain is for unpatched games, patched games are getting much better upgrades (resolution/higher detail along with higher fps)

 

[Luipadre]

I expect more robust support too in future titles thats not just a quick patch. We already have some great results

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, I beat the damn game 3 times on PS4 Pro, so no one can tell me with a straight face it's 60fps. It's not even close in typical play.

False, it was around 60 if you just look to a wall or the sky and nothing else.

 

[Luipadre]

Wonder if RDR2 looks any better with that new image enhance mode. It sure needs some sharpness

 

[winjer]

Wonder if RDR2 looks any better with that new image enhance mode. It sure needs some sharpness

Better yet, Rockstar could easily implement PSSR.
They already dd most of the work exposing colour and depth buffers and motion vectors, to implement DLSS and FSR on PC.

 

[Luipadre]

Better yet, Rockstar could easily implement PSSR.
They already dd most of the work exposing colour and depth buffers and motion vectors, to implement DLSS and FSR on PC.

RDR2 is dead to them. That fucking game never got a 60fps upgrade

 

[King Dazzar]

Wonder if RDR2 looks any better with that new image enhance mode. It sure needs some sharpness

Unfortunately it still wont look as good as XSX due to PS4Pro vs X1X settings. I'm still looking forward to trying it on some other games though. RDR2 really needs its own PS5 upgrade before I revisit.

 

[dreamstation]

Not sure where to ask but do people run HDR always on or select on when supported in settings? I'm running on when supported but when I play non HDR games and then press the PS button to go back to the main screen everything appears way oversaturated. Didn't notice this at all on the OG PS5. Any idea?

 

[winjer]

RDR2 is dead to them. That fucking game never got a 60fps upgrade

Maybe Rockstar thought it wasn't worth compromising image quality.
But now with the Pro and PSSR, it's the perfect opportunity.

 

[Senua]

Better yet, Rockstar could easily implement PSSR.
They already dd most of the work exposing colour and depth buffers and motion vectors, to implement DLSS and FSR on PC.

Rockstar:

 

[Luipadre]

Maybe Rockstar thought it wasn't worth compromising image quality.
But now with the Pro and PSSR, it's the perfect opportunity.

I think it runs at 60 on a jailbreaked PS5 so dont need any adjustment just a literal framerate unlock

 

[winjer]

I think it runs at 60 on a jailbreaked PS5 so dont need any adjustment just a literal framerate unlock

Does it? Or is it one of those cases where frame rate fluctuates all over the place, only sometimes reaching 60.

 

[Luipadre]

Does it? Or is it one of those cases where frame rate fluctuates all over the place, only sometimes reaching 60.

From 1:38. Looks locked to me

 

[winjer]

From 1:38. Looks locked to me

That's more reasons for Rockstar to make a proper update for the Pro, with 60 fps, PSSR, higher resolution, better LODs, etc.

 

[Luipadre]

That's more reasons for Rockstar to make a proper update for the Pro, with 60 fps, PSSR, higher resolution, better LODs, etc.

They wont do it

 

[Zuzu]

The GPU power seems disappointing at this stage. There’s a lot of great looking games on it but Alan Wake 2 and Veilguard are showing that upscaling from below 1080p is not producing great results. It seems that it needed more GPU power to better guarantee that it could get every game up to a higher internal resolution baseline standard from which PSSR could upscale.

Hopefully it will have enough power for most games this generation to render at decently high internal resolutions for PSSR to work with. But I really wished it could have had 20-22 teraflops of power to better guarantee that. But that’s obviously not possible to have in a machine of this price.

 

[Fafalada]

i dont even know what we are arguing about here.

It's simple - the equation of 'pixel count' or 'framerate' = 'flops' isn't a good metric. PS4 Pro is just an example of how that doesn't pan out.
Taking a broad-view, PS4 Pro real-world performance increase was somewhere in the 50%-70% range (and I can back that with real metrics when I worked on the hw). Lower than that if you just looked at unmodified code running (like uncapped games boosting).
Basically - if you argue PS5 Pro increase is underperforming the specs based on that, so was the PS4 Pro (arguably more so - but that's semantically dependant on which paper spec you pick).

but you are not getting that 4kcb unless there was 2.3x more power.

There were also games on PS4Pro that went from 1080p -> native 4k. That doesn't make the 'GPU power=4x' anymore than the games that did 1080p->1080p makes it 1x. The methodology is flawed, period.

To get anywhere near 2x increase - it took a substantial amount of pipeline massaging and Pro specific optimisations - and then you still had to contend with things that just didn't scale with Flops at all. Flipside - there were also parts of pipeline that could see more than 3x increase (well beyond what was on paper) - but this was usecase dependant, and there were no guarantees.
You can blame the design - but the whole point is that compute-scaling is a short-hand for a lot of things under-the hood that need to happen to accomodate said compute throughput increase (whether in hw or sw). Just like one could point to X1 'underperforming its paper spec relative to PS4 (or PS4 overperforming - wherever you put your stick really). There was a lot more of a difference between two GPUs than just the compute delta.

Ultimately my point was - with PS4 Pro - the 'rationale' people use is take 2.3x and then try to retroactively prove that (and discard what doesn't fit). With PS5 Pro right now it's the same just in reverse (taking Sony's 1.4x and look for evidence to support it). Both are ultimately confirmation bias.
Whether the increase is actually hitting design targets or not - in the end market will speak towards that.

 

[Salty Pickle]

The GPU power seems disappointing at this stage. There’s a lot of great looking games on it but Alan Wake 2 and Veilguard are showing that upscaling from below 1080p is not producing great results. It seems that it needed more GPU power to guarantee that it could get every game up to at least a 1080p internal resolution baseline standard from which PSSR could upscale.

Hopefully it will have enough power for most games this generation to render at 1080p or above internal rez. But I really wished it could have had 20-22 teraflops of power to better guarantee that. But that’s obviously not possible to have in a machine of this price.

I think it will (or should) improve over time just like with Dlss.

 

[scydrex]

The PS5 Pro is performing as expected. It has the same CPU running at roughly the same speed. It's like the PS4 Pro but worse
That had more than double the GPU power and the same CPU. Game like God of War 2016 went from 30 to about 45 on the PRO at the time with more than double the GPU performance and it's about 45% this time. A 5 to 7 fps gain is about right. If it wasn't for PSSR, it would be a negligible upgrade. I still want one but I will wait to see how PSSR is implemented going forward as that the only benefit.

Like the PS4 Pro but worse and the PS4 Pro only ran 30fps on every game. PS5 Pro objective is run something like PS5 quality mode 30fps but at 60fps. That's what the PS5 Pro is doing so get your facts right.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

The PS5 Pro is performing as expected. It has the same CPU running at roughly the same speed. It's like the PS4 Pro but worse
That had more than double the GPU power and the same CPU. Game like God of War 2016 went from 30 to about 45 on the PRO at the time with more than double the GPU performance and it's about 45% this time. A 5 to 7 fps gain is about right. If it wasn't for PSSR, it would be a negligible upgrade. I still want one but I will wait to see how PSSR is implemented going forward as that the only benefit.

If it wasn't for the 30% more power, the RTX 4090 would be a negligible upgrade over the 4080.

 

[TehGoomba7s]

Let's see, I'm the first one who has defended the console, but to see that the Elden Ring fails to maintain 60fps in performance mode, with or without a patch, for me is a failure of this console.

My PC has a 4060 and I run the Elden Ring at 60fps with no problems at 1440p and it's not supposed to be superior on paper to this PS5pro. Something is wrong.

It's an unpatched game where the DRS is pulling to favour resolution instead of framerate. It'll likely need a patch to either optimize it or just straight remove DRS.

 

[TrebleShot]

pssr is no joke just playing stellar blade now and its night and day between this and base model.

 

[yogaflame]

pssr is no joke just playing stellar blade now and its night and day between this and base model.

Stellar blade on ps5 pro? You are so lucky. Even DF said it was a surprise that it is one of the most impressive game in ps5 pro. Next year hopefully i get one.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

The Last of Us Pt 1 is a good test of the cost of PSSR given the identical settings in the performance and performance pro modes.

I noticed by switching back and forth a 15-20 fps differential (75-90) in the scene I tested (unlocked frame rate) - in favour of the OG performance mode.

Different scenes will vary but I thought that was interesting.

 

[TrebleShot]

Stellar blade on ps5 pro? You are so lucky. Even DF said it was a surprise that it is one of the most impressive game in ps5 pro. Next year hopefully i get one.

With time and a bit of saving you'll get one too it looks incredible so sharp and all the fuzz and FSR crap is gone. Will be worth the wait runs at 80fps.

 

[yogaflame]

With time and a bit of saving you'll get one too it looks incredible so sharp and all the fuzz and FSR crap is gone. Will be worth the wait runs at 80fps.

Your lucky especially with the photo mode and SB and Nier crossover is about to come out before the end of the year. Yes I will try to save funds to get one. I think by next year PSSR ML will be even better,adjusted, evolved, and updated. Gta 6, Death strandling 2, GOY, Wolverine. Wow so many games for 2025 to really tap ps5 pro power nd possible this games are develop with ps5 pro in mind.

 

[Seomel]

Let's see, I'm the first one who has defended the console, but to see that the Elden Ring fails to maintain 60fps in performance mode, with or without a patch, for me is a failure of this console.

My PC has a 4060 and I run the Elden Ring at 60fps with no problems at 1440p and it's not supposed to be superior on paper to this PS5pro. Something is wrong.

Yes, its unpatched game running in its quality mode with rt enabled. Are you playing at high settings with rt enabled? Please show me screenshot of your fps in limgrave opening area. I also have 4070/5800x3D pc and I know rougly what to expect

 

[Seomel]

The PS5 Pro is performing as expected. It has the same CPU running at roughly the same speed. It's like the PS4 Pro but worse
That had more than double the GPU power and the same CPU. Game like God of War 2016 went from 30 to about 45 on the PRO at the time with more than double the GPU performance and it's about 45% this time. A 5 to 7 fps gain is about right. If it wasn't for PSSR, it would be a negligible upgrade. I still want one but I will wait to see how PSSR is implemented going forward as that the only benefit.

DF already said its bigger upgrade that ps4 to Pro. Its not that hard to take in consideration with its patched games, same way god of war had dedicated version. Stellar Balde runs at 4k80fps, GT is 4k120 unpatched. It all depends on implemantion. ps4 pro was mostly games jumped to 1800p checkerboarded or had 1080p60fps which wasnt always good(gow cough cough)

 

[twilo99]

To be fair, so far there's no substantial improvement with the PS5 Pro, except in a few cases. It bothers me specifically that games running around 40/50fps can't reach a stable 60fps, which would be expected.

I'm waiting for mine, but my expectations have dropped a lot

40-50 is still better than 30

 

[TrebleShot]

BREAKING NEWS
REPLAYS ARE 60FPS IN EAFC25 PRAISE THE LORD WE DREAMED FOR DAYS LIKE THESE

 

[twilo99]

With frame generation proper software optimization becomes paramount if you want to take full advantage of the system’s features, and luckily for Sony, they control the market so they can force developers into doing the work, otherwise you have to mostly rely on 1st party studios

 

[hinch7]

That's more reasons for Rockstar to make a proper update for the Pro, with 60 fps, PSSR, higher resolution, better LODs, etc.

Meh I'd rather they optimise it for base console. There are barely any games released this generation that really push the PS5. Most of the time it feels like we're getting PS4 games just enhanced with extra fidelity and effects.

 

[RaySoft]

It took base PS4 1080p (2.1 million pixels) games and ran them at 4kcb (4.1 million pixels + reconstruction cost on the GPU). Several games ran at 1620p. Some games like GOW and SOTC ran at 1080p 60 fps so doubling the performance.

Some other games were held back because of the poor vram bandwidth increase but most games managed to hit 4kcb at a minimum.

And how many (of all the games that doubled their performace), where games already out when the PS4 Pro released?
I'm just asking, 'cause I don't know. But I have a feeling that the games that gained most from the Pro features, where games developed with the Pro in mind. All we have for the PS5 Pro now is retrofited games.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Thats because those games are upscaling from a much higher resolution. even DLSS 4k quality >>>> DLSS 1440p performance because 4k quality reconstructs from 1440p while dlss 1440p performance scales from 720p.

You NEED to up the base resolution to at least 1080p. 4k dlss performance is kinda soft but is mostly clean. anything below that and even dlss has issues. i mostly just reduce the settings or turn off ray tracing in order to play games at dlss quality or dlss balanced because even 4k dlss performance is too blurry for me.

AI is not magic. Everyone who games on PCs knows this. you need raw GPU power on top of AI upscaling. 45% more power gets you from 720p to 900p at best. they are using 864p which is maybe 35% more raw pixels. just not enough.

AW2 also has a shimmering issue even on PC related to their post processing setting which is set to Low on consoles. You need to set to high on PC because even at medium, its a shimmering mess. Problem is that even going from medium to high is a 20-25% performance increase. They have to go from low to high on the pro and there just isnt enough GPU there to increase the resolution AND this setting.

to be fair, i had to play this game at 40 fps locked because that setting pretty much killed my framerate and without it, the game looked like a shimmering mess so even on PC its a tradeoff. at least on pc i was able to adjust this setting manually, cant do that even on the quality mode on the pro. again, not enough gpu power.

IMO, even 4K DLSS performance looks incredible when compared to PS5 games running in performance mode. I recommend viewing these screenshots in full size by opening them in a new tab.

PS5 performance mode

PC 4K DLSS Performance

I think console gamers would be really happy with 4K DLSS performance image quality because it's a massive improvement over the standard upscaling consoles use. If PSSR is similar in quality to DLSS, then it's a massive win for PS5P over the standard model.

You said the "DLSS performance" image looks too soft. I think DLSS/DLAA by itself will always look soft, just like TAA. To get a sharp image, you need to add a sharpening filter (I recommend reshade CAS and luma sharpening filters). Both DLSS Q and P modes look razor sharp with the use of sharpening filters.

DLSS performance

DLSS Quality

4K DLSS Performance

DLSS Quality

DLSS Performance

DLSS Quality

DLSS Performance

DLSS Quality

On the static image, both DLSS Q and P look like a 4K image. The biggest difference between the two is motion clarity. If something is moving, you can tell that the DLSS performance image has more artifacts around hair or leaves on a tree.

 

[Vick]

I noticed by switching back and forth a 15-20 fps differential (75-90) in the scene I tested (unlocked frame rate) - in favour of the OG performance mode.

Damn.. that's a lot of fps. PSSR is pretty heavy then.

40-50 is still better than 30

Not really, outside of 120hz panels just as bad if not even worse due to inconsistent frame pacing.

He referred to PS5 games around 40/50 not running at stable 60fps on Pro, even though that actually happens for some games.

All Capcom games with RT in Resolution modes for instance ran around 45-50ps and are now mostly 60fps on Pro, DMC5 confirmed by John to be the best version of the game, RE4R village section on PS5 ran at 52-60fps but it's locked 60fps on Pro, and after yesterday's patch that same section in Res + RT + Hair Strands is 80fps average with 74 minimum.
There's reports of RE2R in Res + RT also being 60fps on Pro with no noticeable dips, and that game with those settings on PS5 ran around 45-50fps for most of the RPD section. RE3R and RE7 should also be locked given they're both much lighter. It really depends on the game, engine and load it seems.

 

[Gaiff]

Yes, its unpatched game running in its quality mode with rt enabled. Are you playing at high settings with rt enabled? Please show me screenshot of your fps in limgrave opening area. I also have 4070/5800x3D pc and I know rougly what to expect

Rich tested without RT. It can’t maintain a locked 60 in any mode, but it stays within the VRR window. A 4070 with the same settings and 4K in Limgrave is pretty much a locked 60.

This is an unpatched game running boost mode with only a 30%-ish performance increase over the base console though. Of course, a 4070 can do much better since it’s around 60-70% faster than the regular PS5.

Damn.. that's a lot of fps. PSSR is pretty heavy then.

Doubtful it's due to PSSR alone. There are likely other improvements. According to the leaked documents, PSSR takes around 1-2ms to upscale from 1080p>4K. Assuming a 120fps target (8.33ms), PSSR would take 2ms or 24% of it. That'd be around 24fps. However, that's 1080p>4K. 1440p>4K would be significantly lower.

 

[Madserb2023]

But it does have PSSR, so thats irrelevant

and the 5-7 fps gain is for unpatched games, patched games are getting much better upgrades (resolution/higher detail along with higher fps)

It is relevant. PSSR isn't automatically added to games. It is dependent on developers. If most games don't get updated to use PSSR or the implementation is bad enough where it's not much better than FSR then it's not worth it. For 90% of games the boost mode performance is what you are getting.

 

[TrebleShot]

FF7R is legit like playing native 4k 60.

Best way to describe this is.
This is what we all probably expected from the base PS5.

PIN SHARP 4k looking games at 60.

It's fucking amazing guys.

I was buying everything on PC for the last year or so and now I may have a harder choice to make tbh.

 

[family_guy]

Not really, outside of 120hz panels just as bad if not even worse due to inconsistent frame pacing.

Is this a problem for the segment of people willing to buy a $700 console?

 

[Vick]

Is this a problem for the segment of people willing to buy a $700 console?

Should be a problem for everyone in my opinion, not really a fan of TV/monitor tech having to solve videogames performance issues, and best panels ever made in many aspects are not 120hz.
And even there, plenty of image quality issues in their 120hz modes.

 

[SlimySnake]

Talk about rose tinted glasses. God of War was MASSIVELY unstable in its 60fps mode, It couldn’t even consistently hit 60FPS during traversal and dropped into the 40s during even the basic combat encounters. The 30FPS mode dropped more frames than base PS4 mode.



Not doubling performance.

Lmao. Gow literally ran at 4kcb which is literally 2x more pixels plus the reconstruction cost to get to 4k.

The 60 fps mode can hit 60 fps regularly. I played it for over 200 hours. It drops because of cpu bottlenecks. If the gpu was the bottleneck it would never hit 60 fps. Or run at 4kcb.

 

[family_guy]

Should be a problem for everyone in my opinion, not really a fan of TV/monitor tech having to solve videogames performance issues, and best panels ever made in many aspects are not 120hz.
And even there, plenty of image quality issues in their 120hz modes.

Well the devs that prioritize 60fps usually get there, but I think that's an afterthought for many unfortunately, so at least there's a way to mitigate performance issues without relying on them. I don't think it's something to be bothered by. You might even say that the Pro itself is also hardware being used to solve videogame performance issues.

 

[Gaiff]

Lmao. Gow literally ran at 4kcb which is literally 2x more pixels plus the reconstruction cost to get to 4k.

The 60 fps mode can hit 60 fps regularly. I played it for over 200 hours. It drops because of cpu bottlenecks. If the gpu was the bottleneck it would never hit 60 fps. Or run at 4kcb.

No, it fucking can't. Stop that.

 

[Loboxxx]

40-50 is still better than 30

Not for me, 60fps and the occasional drop is acceptable, 40/50fps vs 30fps is not, not by investing 350€ more.

 

[Radical_3d]

Is this a problem for the segment of people willing to buy a $700 console?

 

[Vick]

Doubtful it's due to PSSR alone. There are likely other improvements. According to the leaked documents, PSSR takes around 1-2ms to upscale from 1080p>4K. Assuming a 120fps target (8.33ms), PSSR would take 2ms or 24% of it. That'd be around 24fps. However, that's 1080p>4K. 1440p>4K would be significantly lower.

To be honest, still more than I expected.
I ignorantly imagined its cost to be around 6-7fps at max, surely below 10.

FF7R is legit like playing native 4k 60.

Best way to describe this is.
This is what we all probably expected from the base PS5.

PIN SHARP 4k looking games at 60.

It's fucking amazing guys.

I was buying everything on PC for the last year or so and now I may have a harder choice to make tbh.

Well basically everyone agrees that's the most impressive showcase, but mostly imo because of how bad it originally was.

Another one of these instances is apparently Jedi Survivor:

The AO thing is interesting though.

Well the devs that prioritize 60fps usually get there, but I think that's an afterthought for many unfortunately, so at least there's a way to mitigate performance issues without relying on them. I don't think it's something to be bothered by. You might even say that the Pro itself is also hardware being used to solve videogame performance issues.

Fair point.

 

[Gaiff]

To be honest, still more than I expected.
I ignorantly imagined its cost to be around 6-7fps at max, surely below 10.

It will change depending on the target frame rate. It’s closer to a fixed cost, so on a 30fps target, it would be only 2/33.33ms or 1.8fps. At 60, 6.5fps-ish, so you’re not wrong with 6-7fps. 60 is the typical target and that’s the cost there, below 10.

120fps gives the GPU only 8.33ms to render a frame, so 2ms there is already almost a quarter of the frame time. That’s likely the reason F1 24 is dropping PSSR in favor of TAA in the 120fps mode if I’m not mistaken (or it could be the 8K mode? Don’t remember).

However, the way I look at it is compared to the final native output, how many fps/frame time do I save? Sure, 1080p>4K would drop your fps from 120 to 96 compared to straight 1080p when using PSSR, but native 4K would be what? 60fps? Is the trade-off worth it? Because that’s a 60% improvement over native.

Edit: Also, I’m quoting from memory. I think the leaked documents said 1-2ms, not 2ms.

 

[TrebleShot]

Real shame nothing is out for COD yet just played a couple of rounds and the modes still look washed out and low res.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

While this is impressive it doesn't seem like it'll do me much good since I play on a 24" 1080p144hz monitor.