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[FalconPunch]

We could increase minimum wage to a livable wage, now, and then tie it to inflation. say, every two years it raises by what inflation was the last two years.

Wages should always be tied to inflation by law to protect the purchasing power of the people. Any time you receive a yearly wage increase that is less than inflation, you're losing money. Now if wages were actually tied to inflation, you'd see less people job hopping. If they were happy with their job and standard of living, then there's little incentive to switch when your standard of living is protected by wages tied to inflation.

As a result, we'd see less of this scenario where the middle class feels screwed every time the minimum wage increases. Theoretically, it would also help to keep ridiculous profiteering in check. If rampant profiteering leads to rampant inflation like we see today, it will also lead to rampant wage growth. This would in turn wipe out a good portion of the company's profit.

 

[Blade2.0]

And as the link says, too many people fighting for the jobs. As I've said, oversupply of people which kills wages because people will take anything.

Actually, according to the link the bar chart says Gen X'ers are doing the best financially on adjusted pay scales. That includes me. Well, dont blame people in my bracket. Whatever we are doing right being in our 40s must be something right so we are keeping jobs at high pay outpacing boomers and milleaneals.

Also, the article saying a lot of people now have college degrees so they seem perplexed why wages for young people arent higher. Well, duh. That means nothing when you got shit loads of people with degrees. Back to square one. If every person in the US (all 330M of them according to google) had a PhD in neuroscience, guess what? It's not like the avg wage of everyone would jump from $55,000 to $500,000 like a medical brainer would get. It means nothing since that medical field only needs so many people. And by the sounds of it a lot of recent grads funnel to liberal arts junk that gets you nowhere too.

So another thing that individuals can't control. But you would put this on the backs of the people just trying to live decently, huh? I didn't get to choose when to be born and neither did any of you. What you did right was to get lucky when your parents popped you out. Congratulations you didn't have to compete.

 

[Krappadizzle]

So another thing that individuals can't control. But you would put this on the backs of the people just trying to live decently, huh? I didn't get to choose when to be born and neither did any of you. What you did right was to get lucky when your parents popped you out. Congratulations you didn't have to compete.

Life is always a competition though, has and always will be. Both sides of this argument can't both be right here too. Raising the minimum wage isn't the worst idea on paper, but in practicality all it really does it raise the price of everything. Bringing down inflation and the cost of living is a balancing act that incorporates so many facets that it's not just a simple "raise the minimum" wage and fix the problem. Housing, food, fuel, etc. are all intrinsically linked in chains that control many aspects of our lives.

Being born in certain times might be better for certain subsets of people, but being born a "boomer" or "millennial" doesn't mean you aren't poor now, so let's not pretend that you're just "unlucky" to be coming into adulthood now and dealing with the realities of the world. Life isn't fair, you have to fight for the shit you want, and you don't deserve anything. If one was lucky to have a handout from being in a certain social class, lucky them, you still have to fight to keep the shit you want.

The alternative is to just give up, and some people take that avenue, and it leaves them in the exact same place. You have to work for the shit you want, sometimes you have to work harder or more often in way worse circumstances than others, but it's worth doing to build a life you want.

Most people know the options they may have to take to build something, but they just don't want to do that because it may be a tough option and people can't stand the idea of being uncomfortable or hardship for self-improvement, because it sucks. But the problem is the solution more often than not and you have to keep going.

 

[Blade2.0]

Life is always a competition though, has and always will be. Both sides of this argument can't both be right here too. Raising the minimum wage isn't the worst idea on paper, but in practicality all it really does it raise the price of everything. Bringing down inflation and the cost of living is a balancing act that incorporates so many facets that it's not just a simple "raise the minimum" wage and fix the problem. Housing, food, fuel, etc. are all intrinsically linked in chains that control many aspects of our lives.

Being born in certain times might be better for certain subsets of people, but being born a "boomer" or "millennial" doesn't mean you aren't poor now, so let's not pretend that you're just "unlucky" to be coming into adulthood now and dealing with the realities of the world. Life isn't fair, you have to fight for the shit you want, and you don't deserve anything. If one was lucky to have a handout from being in a certain social class, lucky them, you still have to fight to keep the shit you want.

The alternative is to just give up, and some people take that avenue, and it leaves them in the exact same place. You have to work for the shit you want, sometimes you have to work harder or more often in way worse circumstances than others, but it's worth doing to build a life you want.

Most people know the options they may have to take to build something, but they just don't want to do that because it may be a tough option and people can't stand the idea of being uncomfortable or hardship for self-improvement, because it sucks. But the problem is the solution more often than not and you have to keep going.

Sorry but older generations didn't have two back to back recessions not seen since the great depression or the rampant wealth inequality there is today for the younger generation to go up against. Older generations had it easier. Miles easier.

Edit: you can't personal choice your way out of systemic issues.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Sorry but older generations didn't have two back to back recessions not seen since the great depression or the rampant wealth inequality there is today for the younger generation to go up against. Older generations had it easier. Miles easier.

Edit: you can't personal choice your way out of systemic issues.

Ok. Wealth inequality only started happening recently then? Even that aside, older generations had it easier. So what? What does that change about the here and now?

What are you doing to improve your life? What should or could you be doing to improve it? Start there and start laying the bricks for your future. It's not gonna magically get better, and it won't be given to you. Fight for it, or languish in misery. Those are your two choices.

 

[Blade2.0]

Ok. Wealth inequality only started happening recently then? Even that aside, older generations had it easier. So what? What does that change about the here and now?

What are you doing to improve your life? What should or could you be doing to improve it? Start there and start laying the bricks for your future. It's not gonna magically get better, and it won't be given to you. Fight for it, or languish in misery. Those are your two choices.

I'm voting for people that want to change the system we have in place today and I'm going to rallies and other things for that.

 

[Krappadizzle]

I'm voting for people that want to change the system we have in place today and I'm going to rallies and other things for that.

Yeah, but that's societal improvement. Great, we all vote(mostly), but that's minimum effort or even what's expected of most grown adults.

What are you doing for personal self improvement to further your life?

It's so much easier to blame "the system" and champion a cause than it is to say "what can I be doing to make my situation better?" And it's not always an easy answer, but most people know deep in their core things they can do to make a situation better, it's just because it's difficult or uncomfortable that most people won't do something.

Just throwing out examples; but one could join a military branch, they could move to a place where they have better opportunities(maybe even sacrificing comforts to do it), they could work an extra shift to pay for a trade program, etc. There's a lot of uncomfortable avenues people could take to further their lives. It's just hard. Life is hard. Life is fighting and hardships and death and taxes, it's all an unfair fish bowl.

 

[HoodWinked]

People bring up productivity as justification for wages is valid the problem is that productivity gains in retail and fast food are minimal.

Someone isn't making 10 times more burgers than they were decades ago, nor is a retail employee helping 10 customers at a time. Also the measure of the increase productivity is way too complicated to distill into a single number.
Also there are alot of jobs that exist that don't even increase productivity in fact they reduce productivity any sort of bureaucracy or regulatory type jobs which have expanded.

There's also the rise of bullshit jobs which don't really do anything.

 

[BadBurger]

Not to mention there's another class above the C-Suites folks.

Low level workers are to C-Suiters as C-Suiters are to billionaire investors. CEOs are like...attainably wealthy. If you or I work hard enough and play the game right, we could get to that level. Not so much the case with the true ruling class.

I work in healthcare IT. We all get paid a lot for our area. I actually almost feel guilty that I can put away tens of thousands a year while many people in my city struggle just to pay rent or buy groceries.

But when I found out how much the VP of my department made it was shocking. The guy works three days a week, always taking time off, and is paid about ten times what I am. And like I said, I get paid very well.

It's a huge problem in America and needs to be fixed. I've mentioned it here before I think, but I used to work closely with many executives. These people don't do shit and yet eat up millions of a company's revenues.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I work in healthcare IT. We all get paid a lot for our area. I actually almost feel guilty that I can put away tens of thousands a year while many people in my city struggle just to pay rent or buy groceries.

But when I found out how much the VP of my department made it was shocking. The guy works three days a week, always taking time off, and is paid about ten times what I am. And like I said, I get paid very well.

It's a huge problem in America and needs to be fixed. I've mentioned it here before I think, but I used to work closely with many executives. These people don't do shit and yet eat up millions of a company's

The execs I've worked for through the past 15 years are genuinely intelligent, decisive people. But do they work 300x harder than typical workers to earn 300x the salary? Not at all.

Compensation seems more tied to the supposed risk their decisions carry. But companies are like giant ships, and even if the captain intentionally tried to steer it into an iceberg, there's only so hard they can turn.

 

[Durien]

But companies are like giant ships, and even if the captain intentionally tried to steer it into an iceberg, there's only so hard they can turn.

I don't know, Disney seems to be saying "Hold my beer."

 

[Davey Cakes]

I don't know, Disney seems to be saying "Hold my beer."

Disney has zero vision. They are a prime example becoming too big for their own good. Iger emphasizing the cancellation of projects if the first lick of sense I've seen out of him (or the company at large) in a while.

The problem with people at the top is that they see everything as numbers. They don't care about quality. They don't care about humanity or the human cost that goes into developing content. That's why people don't think highly of them, on top of the fact that they probably make a little bit too much money on the backs of those actually working in the trenches.

If a CEO fails, he/she gets a golden parachute. If a regular person fails, they're at risk of being homeless. It's the system that we've built, unfortunately.

 

[Durien]

Disney has zero vision. They are a prime example becoming too big for their own good. Iger emphasizing the cancellation of projects if the first lick of sense I've seen out of him (or the company at large) in a while.

The problem with people at the top is that they see everything as numbers. They don't care about quality. They don't care about humanity or the human cost that goes into developing content. That's why people don't think highly of them, on top of the fact that they probably make a little bit too much money on the backs of those actually working in the trenches.

Yeah it sucks because I really like old Disney and I love taking my family to WDW on vacation. (I live on the west coast and prefer WDW to DL)

 

[Mistake]

I'm voting for people that want to change the system we have in place today and I'm going to rallies and other things for that.

Whoever is hated more gets my attention at this point. The establishment can eat a bag of dicks

 

[DeafTourette]

Life is always a competition though, has and always will be. Both sides of this argument can't both be right here too. Raising the minimum wage isn't the worst idea on paper, but in practicality all it really does it raise the price of everything. Bringing down inflation and the cost of living is a balancing act that incorporates so many facets that it's not just a simple "raise the minimum" wage and fix the problem. Housing, food, fuel, etc. are all intrinsically linked in chains that control many aspects of our lives.

Being born in certain times might be better for certain subsets of people, but being born a "boomer" or "millennial" doesn't mean you aren't poor now, so let's not pretend that you're just "unlucky" to be coming into adulthood now and dealing with the realities of the world. Life isn't fair, you have to fight for the shit you want, and you don't deserve anything. If one was lucky to have a handout from being in a certain social class, lucky them, you still have to fight to keep the shit you want.

The alternative is to just give up, and some people take that avenue, and it leaves them in the exact same place. You have to work for the shit you want, sometimes you have to work harder or more often in way worse circumstances than others, but it's worth doing to build a life you want.

Most people know the options they may have to take to build something, but they just don't want to do that because it may be a tough option and people can't stand the idea of being uncomfortable or hardship for self-improvement, because it sucks. But the problem is the solution more often than not and you have to keep going.

Raising wages is good "in paper"... Yet for years after FDR implemented it, minimum wage increases with the rise of inflation... Ford, and then Reagan, put a stop to that. It took a while but then rent, gas, food and everything else raised in prices AHEAD of inflation. Ever wonder why rent prices keep going up year after year? It has nothing to do with inflation, especially when inflation is flat or going down during those years. 10 years ago, my former apt was $700 a month... Now it's $1400... It'll probably go up again soon. They priced single minimum wage earners OUT. There's barely any apts out there that charge less than $1100 per month anymore unless it's the dumpiest of the dumps and even then many still charge more than what a minimum wage worker can afford. Inflation is DOWN now... Not up (at least in the US) and the prices to things are still higher than before (this isn't counting shrinkflation).

My point is, minimum wage was able to afford people the basic necessities (housing, food, gas) and now it barely can unless two or more pool their resources together somewhere that's cheaper than 1500 a month. Because the government severed the connection between inflation and the minimum wage, they have developed a permanent underclass who are constantly in survival mode. Yes, some people get out from under that but by and large, it's constant struggle to make ends meet and still trying to be a functional adult who can smile in the face of it.

 

[RPS37]

The big gauge is 20$/hour full time monthly payout versus how much a 1 bedroom apt costs per month. Y'all might be surprised, especially if you don't live in a more expensive place in Cali.

 

[DeafTourette]

The big gauge is 20$/hour full time monthly payout versus how much a 1 bedroom apt costs per month. Y'all might be surprised, especially if you don't live in a more expensive place in Cali.

In Atlanta it can range anywhere from 1100 - 2400 a month.

 

[RPS37]

Down the street from me.
I'm in Northern Cali.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Down the street from me.
I'm in Northern Cali.

About the same here in Irvine

 

[DeafTourette]

$20 an hour isn't going to afford me a 1bed 1bath apt anywhere in most places out here. You have to move someplace like Fayetteville where cost of living is cheaper (relatively)...

 

[Nobody_Important]

The only way more money will be distributed to more people is one of two ways:

1. Government mandates higher min wages (for sake of a talking point in present day let's say all countries or states/provinces set $30/hr minimum)

2. Employers pay people based in a linear way and there's some kind of conversion method. For example, if Bob can make 15 burgers he gets $15/hr. If Sally can prove she can make 20 burgers, she gets $20/hr. If marketing guy X sitting at desk does XXX he gets paid $50/hr, if a baseball player has bad stats he gets paid the league minimum $1M. If a player with allstar stats has 20% better stats, he gets the league minimum +20% ($1.2M) instead of $35 million/yr contract for 8 years. Or as on gaffer replied to me above.... just make CEOs make a max of 20x the base salary as a cap. Save all that money and funnel it to the low paid people.

However, the way the world works is min wages are set low by governments, you got tons of low skilled people all fighting for menial jobs, and employers paying higher wages for any kind of job out there will pay more for higher performance despite it being only one brain in the seat. The problem with shopping mall and fast food jobs is the skills required to do them well can be aped by anyone (even high schoolers working PT) and the value added performance only goes so far so there's no point paying a Big Mac maker $40/hr because even the best burger maker in the world isnt going to be worth keeping for $40 even if he is a bit better than students Sam and Stephanie. In fact, there's probably a 50/50 chance the zit faced kid can make a better burger, so might as well just go with paying people $12/hr.

Sorry low wage earners. But your wage is gimped because high schoolers can do it. And they are applying for those jobs you rely on for a career. Dont blame the gov or business. Blame your skills. Out of all the jobs out there (just think of all the places around your neighbourhood or where you/family/friends work) and how many of them can honestly be done by 15 year old high school kids. Not many. But I know some..... fast food, shopping mall jobs and cashiers. And not surprisingly, they get paid the least.

And no company is ever going to pay based on some kind of linear model or cap. Even the government who sets minimum wage laws doesn't work on that model.

So what do you suggest happens to those people who rely on those jobs in order to keep a roof over their head? They can just fuck off into the streets? Sucks to suck?


Like it or not there needs to be protections in place for these lower wage workers. Because not all of them are kids coming out of high school. Some of them are people who are victims of the system who have no other place to turn or can even be more elderly people who have suffered financial setbacks that now have to rely on these lower level jobs to survive. Protections need to be in place so that the people occupying these jobs are not relegated to near homelessness despite the fact that they are working a full-time job.


Go through the drive-thru of any local fast food joint or go inside of one of the big box stores in the average area of the US and you will see at least a third of the staff in the back being well over the age of 30 or even 40. Especially at places like Walmart, Costco, Target, McDonald's, Etc etc.


Trying to paint every other lower level wage worker in the United States as being some kid in high school is ill-informed at best and completely disingenuous at worst. These jobs are no longer stationed solely by the young and the disposable these days. These jobs sometimes are the only thing that sustain older people who have otherwise fell upon hard times. They deserve help and protection just like anyone else in the modern landscape. Especially since in their case they do not have many options to fall back on to other than just homelessness and starvation.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Down the street from me.
I'm in Northern Cali.

That's ridiculous. The property market is fucked in big cities.

 

[Blade2.0]

I'm lucky as hell, I'm in a relatively alright apartment for $425/month and my landlord hasn't raised rent since I moved in in 2019. But even then, at 22/hr that I had from the bank and trying to save money, I felt like i was barely saving a thing. Like, i could have saved like what I was for 25 years and still not been able to retire, ever. It's bullshit. and that was with putting 10% into the 401k I had there, plus maxing my IRA (which I'm still behind on), not to mention if I actually want to fucking own property int he future, which would be an even bigger hit than my rent. Nah, shit isn't sustainable. especially in a place with zero public transit infrastructure and rising insurance on every.fucking.thing. The united states economic system will collapse if we keep pushing all the money to the top. and the people letting them are the ones to blame.

EDIT: Forgot to mention where I'm at in my city I have heard gun shots at least every other week since moving in. I'm rolling the dice on safety for maybe a small leg up. People shouldn't have to live this way. Other countries don't live this way.

 

[YCoCg]

These places have been working hard to figure out how to eliminate people from their payroll. This will just speed this up.

Key point there is that companies were already working on this when they were paying minimum wage, sure as you say it might push for it to be done faster BUT this was always their end goal no matter how low of a wage they could get away with paying people.

 

[Toots]

But again, this is not some socialist utopia, you have a continent of hundreds of millions of people where all countries instituted minimum wage. Life goes on, businesses are not closing left and right.

I hope it's not politics but this is the same argument as "if only we could solve the problem of mass shootings" - you can, there are millions of people living in countries without them that all have one thing in common.

Dude France minimum wage isn't even 10$ an hour.
You're talking like us europeans have it figured out, which is far from the case. Europeans are as much slaves to capitalism as their US counterparts.
France healthcare system is being taken apart by every successive government left or right for at least 20 years now.
You really think we ought to be parading like you do when all the social achievements in France go back to the post WWII era, and the elected represent of the people are only eroding them slowly so in a decade or two nothing is left ?
You're prancing around in your panties without even realizing they are full of crap.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So what do you suggest happens to those people who rely on those jobs in order to keep a roof over their head? They can just fuck off into the streets? Sucks to suck?


Like it or not there needs to be protections in place for these lower wage workers. Because not all of them are kids coming out of high school. Some of them are people who are victims of the system who have no other place to turn or can even be more elderly people who have suffered financial setbacks that now have to rely on these lower level jobs to survive. Protections need to be in place so that the people occupying these jobs are not relegated to near homelessness despite the fact that they are working a full-time job.


Go through the drive-thru of any local fast food joint or go inside of one of the big box stores in the average area of the US and you will see at least a third of the staff in the back being well over the age of 30 or even 40. Especially at places like Walmart, Costco, Target, McDonald's, Etc etc.


Trying to paint every other lower level wage worker in the United States as being some kid in high school is ill-informed at best and completely disingenuous at worst. These jobs are no longer stationed solely by the young and the disposable these days. These jobs sometimes are the only thing that sustain older people who have otherwise fell upon hard times. They deserve help and protection just like anyone else in the modern landscape. Especially since in their case they do not have many options to fall back on to other than just homelessness and starvation.

If you want protections, ask government for it not businesses. Businesses are following the rules of min wage laws. But if government doesn't even believe in higher min wages, why should businesses? You're asking the wrong people for more money because the only one who has the power to blanket it across all businesses and people is gov with new laws as opposed to hoping and praying every big and small business does it on their own

I never said every min wage jobber is a student. Everyone knows it can be adults and every 70 year olds still serving coffee. Again, that's gov's responsibility to take care of people just like they are the ones who who do UI and medical care. If they dont want to do it, dont blame mcdonalds. Blame your gov. Gov is even the one with the best and latest statistics on demographics, income and cost of living metrics per city or country.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Focusing on the lack of affordable housing.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Focusing on the lack of affordable housing.

Overall good points by the two guys although the 10 min video isnt just about housing costs.

But getting to housing, it's actually very simple why housing costs in a lot areas costs a lot. Supply and demand. And that comes from simply too many people. Of course prices go up when there's locals and immigrants all are fighting for rental units and for ones with more cash outright buying a home right off the bat. If gov let's in hoards of people and all the home builders arent putting up units at light speed, there will be excess demand.

Also, what is the fastest way to put up units? Condos. Guess what? Not everyone likes condos. Families may want to aim for a house. Since detached homes in a city might be gimped in construction that makes it even harder as everyone is fighting for them. Notice how all those bidding war stories you hear with 25 offers tossing in submissions almost are all townhouses and detached homes? Of course. There's hardly any. How often have you heard a cookie cutter condo has 25 bids? Probably never. Why? There's probably a shit load of tower units nearby.

Also, the price of new builds is high right off the bat because pending the city you live in, the permit fees might be $50,000 - $100,000 right from square one. That's why you dont get new condos at $200,000 anymore. Where does all those hoards of development permit fees go? Who the hell knows. But gov scoops it up and makes a ton of fees based on a condo tower footprint. That's why a lot of cities love condos. It's easy to build a 40 floor tower and they rake in the fees. And like in the video, they probably dole it all back in services and whatever, somehow going in debt even more, and its a vicious cycle. That;s why as the young guy says at the end about controlling spending, gov needs to too, but most dont and go ape shit contributing to higher costs and endless debt.

Cities often have policies restricting development too. I'm sure just about every builder will build whatever is available. But if the city says you cant build here or there, but you can build here. And it has to be a condo tower that is 40 floors high. Or maybe the city is a hard ass and doesn't want much development at all. So it's a free for all of fighting for homes. Toronto has some kind of protected environment perimeter thing. There's shit loads of space to build more stuff off the map north of the city. Nope. Cant build there. It ruins the greenery. Which are the kinds of homes that need a lot of space and residential streets? Detached houses and townhouse developments.

It's actually amazing. I remember people posting in similar home threads of Gaf. Some of us post we live in modest homes costing over a million. And then some guys post a pic of their sweet house on a giant lot in Texas or Florida that costs half as much. Well, something must be going great when it comes to city fees and equilibrium of supply/demand because that house would probably be $1.5M where I live with a bidding war on open house weekends. Yet, it's a fraction of the price there and everyone is chill.

The City of Toronto Plans to Increase Development Charges | ReaInsights

Toronto could be raising the cost of building and buying new homes by introducing a 49% increase to Development Charges.

www.gta-homes.com

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Life is always a competition though, has and always will be. Both sides of this argument can't both be right here too. Raising the minimum wage isn't the worst idea on paper, but in practicality all it really does it raise the price of everything. Bringing down inflation and the cost of living is a balancing act that incorporates so many facets that it's not just a simple "raise the minimum" wage and fix the problem. Housing, food, fuel, etc. are all intrinsically linked in chains that control many aspects of our lives.

Being born in certain times might be better for certain subsets of people, but being born a "boomer" or "millennial" doesn't mean you aren't poor now, so let's not pretend that you're just "unlucky" to be coming into adulthood now and dealing with the realities of the world. Life isn't fair, you have to fight for the shit you want, and you don't deserve anything. If one was lucky to have a handout from being in a certain social class, lucky them, you still have to fight to keep the shit you want.

The alternative is to just give up, and some people take that avenue, and it leaves them in the exact same place. You have to work for the shit you want, sometimes you have to work harder or more often in way worse circumstances than others, but it's worth doing to build a life you want.

Most people know the options they may have to take to build something, but they just don't want to do that because it may be a tough option and people can't stand the idea of being uncomfortable or hardship for self-improvement, because it sucks. But the problem is the solution more often than not and you have to keep going.

I still live by the old saying that Life Gives You What You Put Into It. I have personally seen so many given up... It's been inspiring to never go that route.

 

[FalconPunch]

Life is always a competition though, has and always will be. Both sides of this argument can't both be right here too. Raising the minimum wage isn't the worst idea on paper, but in practicality all it really does it raise the price of everything. Bringing down inflation and the cost of living is a balancing act that incorporates so many facets that it's not just a simple "raise the minimum" wage and fix the problem. Housing, food, fuel, etc. are all intrinsically linked in chains that control many aspects of our lives.

Wrong again. Raising the minimum wage does not increase the price of everything. An increase in price over a period of time always leads to a minimum wage increase. Stop conflating the two. Just because the "news"(Billionaire PR) says it's true doesn't mean it is. It's one of the biggest lies people have ever been sold. The economy thrives when people spend and contracts when spending drops. If inflation increase over a period of time and wages don't increase with it, you'll see serious economic contraction.

Being born in certain times might be better for certain subsets of people, but being born a "boomer" or "millennial" doesn't mean you aren't poor now, so let's not pretend that you're just "unlucky" to be coming into adulthood now and dealing with the realities of the world. Life isn't fair, you have to fight for the shit you want, and you don't deserve anything. If one was lucky to have a handout from being in a certain social class, lucky them, you still have to fight to keep the shit you want.

True, but let's not disregard the fact that some are dealt better starting hands that others. It's only as of recent that you have the opportunity to cross social classes through some merit of your own ability and some luck. That being said, there are still countries today that have social systems that prevent the crossing of classes.

The alternative is to just give up, and some people take that avenue, and it leaves them in the exact same place. You have to work for the shit you want, sometimes you have to work harder or more often in way worse circumstances than others, but it's worth doing to build a life you want.

I don't think anyone was advocating for giving up…..

 

[Havoc2049]

I went through the drive through at a Rally's in Southern California and AI took my order at the drive through. It seemed like there was just a skeleton crew working inside the restaurant.

The government needs to let market forces decide wages and stop forcing the false narrative that fast food restaurants need to provide a living wage for a single mom with kids. I worked at a fast food restaurant as a teenager and the only full time employees there were the managers and the maintainance people who kept all the equipment running. Everyone else was part time, mostly people between 16-25 years of age and under no illusion that working fast food was a full time job that could support a family.

 

[Illiterate Actual]

 

[Vicetrailia]

I work in healthcare IT. We all get paid a lot for our area. I actually almost feel guilty that I can put away tens of thousands a year while many people in my city struggle just to pay rent or buy groceries.

But when I found out how much the VP of my department made it was shocking. The guy works three days a week, always taking time off, and is paid about ten times what I am. And like I said, I get paid very well.

It's a huge problem in America and needs to be fixed. I've mentioned it here before I think, but I used to work closely with many executives. These people don't do shit and yet eat up millions of a company's revenues.

DING DING DING.

The point of capitalism, especially in the one-dimensional financial capitalist system that we find ourselves in, is to acquire capital (assets), and use it to take advantage of someone else's labor (exactly what shareholders do, landlords, investors, etc).

Your labor means less than having capital. If you don't acquire assets (that beat inflation overtime) you will not have a good life. I'm talking about the average person, not a doctor or athlete becoming a millionaire. Those jobs are worth working hard for, but the vast majority of jobs arent.

If your labor/hard work is not enough to acquire assets that allow you take advantage of other people's labor, then you are screwed in this economy. Truthfully we are all so productive that we should be making double what we are making, but under capitalism and dealing with greedy and ruthless capitalists the value of your labor is greatly diminished.

If you fail to acquire assets you can beat capitalism by relocating to a low cost of living COUNTRY. Think about it, if you're home isn't paid off by the time you retire you are in big trouble.

 

[Durien]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/01/california-fast-food-minimum-wage-other-business-may-raise-pay.html

I can't find the article I had earlier where groups are now looking to extend the increases to all sectors. Didn't see the that coming *sarcasm*. I was listening to the news in my car yesterday. California lost 25% of their income tax revenue last year and their deficit doubled. Going to be interesting to see what California does in the next couple of years if they just don't implode.

 

[recursive]

What's weird to me, is that of all minimum wage jobs, I thought fast food was never intended be a "hurr-durr mah livin' wage" thing?

It was literally for kids, who don't need money to pay for any necessities, and who live at home with their parents, to get a tiny bit of Real World experience with an infinitesimal amount of accountability and responsibility, while also making a couple of bucks to spend on videogame * s. Then they graduate junior high school or w/e and go get a Real Job.

This is still true but most kids are not working the day shifts due to school. It is mostly adults.

 

[Havoc2049]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/01/california-fast-food-minimum-wage-other-business-may-raise-pay.html

I can't find the article I had earlier where groups are now looking to extend the increases to all sectors. Didn't see the that coming *sarcasm*. I was listening to the news in my car yesterday. California lost 25% of their income tax revenue last year and their deficit doubled. Going to be interesting to see what California does in the next couple of years if they just don't implode.

California currently has the highest unemployment rate in US at 5.3%.

 

[Durien]

California currently has the highest unemployment rate in US at 5.3%.

I thought I read some where that the tech industry shed almost 450k jobs last year =/

 

[terintamel]

Down the street from me.
I'm in Northern Cali.

Dang! I'm sitting here with my ~1800sq/ft house with unfinished basement and a $596/mo 2% interest mortgage payment wishing it was lower. How in the heck can people afford to live in California and states like that with the prices?

 

[jason10mm]

Dang! I'm sitting here with my ~1800sq/ft house with unfinished basement and a $596/mo 2% interest mortgage payment wishing it was lower. How in the heck can people afford to live in California and states like that with the prices?

The beach and year round nice weather is a POWERFUL drug.

Plus I think a lot of lifelong Californians are CONVINCED that the US is straight Road Warrior level savagery >20 miles from the West coast until you get to <20 miles of the Atlantic, they feel trapped in a thin sliver of avocado toast civilization

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

A lot of of ignorance being displayed in this thread in regard to minimum wage causing prices to go up, people completely oblivious to the fact that wage inflation is one of the worst types of inflation. Its almost like the government has a ginormous amount of debt that they can never pay back so they need higher inflation to make it easier and guess who gets fucked over?

 

[Durien]

So here is something. I took my daughter to DQ and we got 2 small blizzards.

Over $12

Let that sink in...

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Dang! I'm sitting here with my ~1800sq/ft house with unfinished basement and a $596/mo 2% interest mortgage payment wishing it was lower. How in the heck can people afford to live in California and states like that with the prices?

Can I borrow your basement to grow weed?

 

[jason10mm]

So here is something. I took my daughter to DQ and we got 2 small blizzards.

Over $12

Let that sink in...

But just think of all the single income families of 4 you are now supporting!

 

[Durien]

But just think of all the single income families of 4 you are now supporting!

For the last time lol I went through the drive thru and thought I misheard them.

 

[6502]

A good wage is a civilised ambition.

Today I read a report on a universal basic income trial in my area. Turns out those on it are not seeking work or education, it has fallen off a cliff. Those on it are living as they would on the dole just by another name.

UBI is not a hand up but a cage.

Make your choice, we either have good wages from profits or state supplements through higher corporation tax. You can direct that to subsidise low wages via corporations or pay direct to people with zero productivity.

As much as I hate giving money to already profitable enterprises, is it not better to have people making a contribution to their community via work? So in my view a higher tax ploughed into companies who encourage employment is the way to go.

Certainly employment gives people a reason to get up in the morning and behave in society. Better to seek a living wage in whatever job than having a huge dole queue and thus a class of directionless people living off redistributed wealth.

I think companies won't care about such things unless they are forced to (look at the success of minimum wage in UK since the 90s), but some subsidy will be essential for small companies (like statutory sick pay - again UK).

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Somewhat relevant and interesting data

 

[DeafTourette]

A good wage is a civilised ambition.

Today I read a report on a universal basic income trial in my area. Turns out those on it are not seeking work or education, it has fallen off a cliff. Those on it are living as they would on the dole just by another name.

UBI is not a hand up but a cage.

Make your choice, we either have good wages from profits or state supplements through higher corporation tax. You can direct that to subsidise low wages via corporations or pay direct to people with zero productivity.

As much as I hate giving money to already profitable enterprises, is it not better to have people making a contribution to their community via work? So in my view a higher tax ploughed into companies who encourage employment is the way to go.

Certainly employment gives people a reason to get up in the morning and behave in society. Better to seek a living wage in whatever job than having a huge dole queue and thus a class of directionless people living off redistributed wealth.

I think companies won't care about such things unless they are forced to (look at the success of minimum wage in UK since the 90s), but some subsidy will be essential for small companies (like statutory sick pay - again UK).

How much is the UBI? What's the cost of living where you are since this happened in your city? Where is the article?

I ask these questions because every article I've read says that UBI is working and the people on it are working actual jobs.

 

[6502]

How much is the UBI? What's the cost of living where you are since this happened in your city? Where is the article?

I ask these questions because every article I've read says that UBI is working and the people on it are working actual jobs.

It is £1600 a month to some young adults. Its enough to pay rent, bills and have a social life by itself. With another income it would give a huge boost to savings / getting on the property ladder.

A 4 bed detached house in a good area costs circa £800 (£500 / £700 if mortgage rather than rent). For me full utilities another £300/£400 with 5 people living, local tax £200 to £250 a month depending if living alone vs a full house. I imagine a lot will go into HMOs at £100ish.

It is really depressing as that money is what a working class bread winner would get in my area. I thought UBI was a great idea; but it seems once basic needs are met a lot of these guys are happy to kick back rather than kick start a productive life.

Making a job pay, even in fast food is probably the way to go imo.

 

[DeafTourette]

It is £1600 a month to those leaving the care of social services. So 18 year olds. Its enough to pay rent, bills and have a social life.

A 4 bed detached house in a good area costs circa £800 (£500 / £700 if mortgage rather than rent), full utilities another £300 with 5 people living, local tax £200 to £250 a month depending if living alone vs a full house. I imagine a lot will go into HMOs at £100 a week all in.

So these are people who had a hard life but have lots of government help to get started. Within a year or so the numbers of those people in work / education is half what it was without the UBI help.

It is really depressing as that money is what a working class bread winner would get in my area. I thought UBI was a great idea; but it seems once basic needs are met a lot of these guys are happy to kick back rather than kick start a productive life.

To put that in perspective I earned £1900 - £2200 a month after 15 years of working a 36hr week whilst solely supporting a family in a great job. I still felt the need for a second job to boost earnings. Handed on a plate it doesn't seem to be working for these kids.

If I was given £1600 I could really lean into education or work and build wealth / quality of life. For so many to just kick back is not only a personal tragedy (even if they don't see it yet) but a death knell to the whole project in my view.

I'm sorry... But that much Per month, here or in the UK, is not enough to live off of. From what I've read up on the subject of London rent, it's MORE than £1800 a month ... More like, on average, £2,219... With the cost on average across the UK being £1500 ...

Maybe it cost that much 20 years ago but not in 2024. And maybe for private renters it's lower but I wager there's more corporate renters for flats and such in major cities and towns. Then add on utilities, insurance for cars and such, groceries, etc .. no. That UBI wouldn't have someone living in the lap of luxury.

From what I've read HERE in the US where our social services don't provide that much for a single person, let alone a family, a UBI is NOTHING... It would help with bills and groceries and maybe free up someone to be able to save a bit per month ... But no more than that for a working person/family. Especially if they are on the lower end of the wage spectrum.

UBI doesn't work without a job. That's the whole point of it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It is £1600 a month to those leaving the care of social services. So 18 year olds. Its enough to pay rent, bills and have a social life.

A 4 bed detached house in a good area costs circa £800 (£500 / £700 if mortgage rather than rent), full utilities another £300 with 5 people living, local tax £200 to £250 a month depending if living alone vs a full house. I imagine a lot will go into HMOs at £100 a week all in.

So these are people who had a hard life but have lots of government help to get started. Within a year or so the numbers of those people in work / education is half what it was without the UBI help.

It is really depressing as that money is what a working class bread winner would get in my area. I thought UBI was a great idea; but it seems once basic needs are met a lot of these guys are happy to kick back rather than kick start a productive life.

To put that in perspective I earned £1900 - £2200 a month after 15 years of working a 36hr week whilst solely supporting a family in a great job. I still felt the need for a second job to boost earnings. Handed on a plate it doesn't seem to be working for these kids.

If I was given £1600 I could really lean into education or work and build wealth / quality of life. For so many to just kick back is not only a personal tragedy (even if they don't see it yet) but a death knell to the whole project in my view.

All comes down to where someone lives as a start. £1600 is about $2300 CDN and that will get you nowhere in the Toronto area. A half decent one bedroom, one bathroom condo rental will probably be around $1,800 minimum. So that leaves only $500 for everything else. Most low end condos go for $2000 or so which is basically all of the $2300. If you go to Hamilton or Kitchener, it'll be a bit cheaper. Looks like checking HouseSignma you can get places for $1500-1800. Ottawa seems to trend lower than Toronto GTA too.

The thing about a UBI payout is my interpretation of it is it's supposed to be treated as supplemental income, not sole income. Anyone trying to live of it sitting at home is going to have a tough slog. But $2300 equivalent is pretty much the same as CDN unemployment insurance max payout which is I think about $500 or so per week. So at that amount, it would be like someone in Canada living off unemployment payouts per week forever..... (I dont know how good £1600 is over there, but going by your impressions it seems decent).

If you got the report, I wouldnt mind checking it out too. But if your impression was it didn't really improve peoples lives I'm not surprised. My prediction was when Andrew Yang was blabbing about USA $1000/mth UBI the theory was if you give everyone some extra cash, it helps the people at the bottom feel more secure with extra bucks for sake of living life, or taking side classes at night to improve education, or give some safety money so they can now get a job by buying new clothes for interviews etc.... My prediction was that most people in life are self serving and it doesn't really matter if someone is rich or poor getting an extra $12000/yr. A lot of people will just blow it or not give a shit anyway. Or they treat it as perpetual income and there's no point working min wage jobs anymore. Good intentions assuming people act responsibly. But reality is different.

To me, the best way to implement some kind of UBI bonus bucks is to add it to people who work. If you dont work, you get nothing. If you work, then the gov will give you extra money or the company will get subsidized to pay you more. It's like when I was a summer student in the 90s. My shitty min wage job was funded by government summer student incentive perks for companies. Even though I didnt get bonus bucks, the company at least did so they hired me. It's not like the gov said "Hey, lets just give every summer kid $3000 direct no strings attached". Nope. This would take it a step further that if you are working, you get your pay PLUS extra UBI money on top of it. If I didn't work and preferred to stay home watching reruns of Saved by the Bell or Fresh Prince I get zero. And thats how UBI should work.