analog_future
Resident Crybaby
tl;dr - it's pointless
Digital Foundry: Will 8K Gaming Ever Become Relevant?
- Thread starter analog_future
- Start date
tl;dr - it's pointless
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
it ain't even relevant in movies or TV so no way it's coming to gaming
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
NomenNescio
Dual Sense Edger and Blower
8K? that is so 2020. PS5 already does it. PS6 will be all about 16K.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Yes, it will
Why are these supposed tech dorks against progress?
Why are these supposed tech dorks against progress?
The Cockatrice
Banned
Found the 8K TV owner.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
It already is on PC. There is 16k already too.
That Damn Kid
Member
Not in this economy
NomenNescio
Dual Sense Edger and Blower
Didn't know Cillian Murphy joined DF. What happened to Bugaga?
Shake Your Rump
Banned
Who are you luddites that claim 4K is irrelevant or overrated? It's a huge jump from 1080p
Zathalus
Member
Nobody is going to seriously game at 8k, and 16k requires a multi monitor setup that would cripple a 4090.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Neat.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
it being available ≠ it being relevant
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
?
Just look for 16k gaming on youtube.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
If I can play = relevant.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That maxes out at 4K. Neat.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
You're either purposefully or unintentionally missing the point of the question.
The question isn't whether or not it's possible (which obviously it is and has been for years). The question is whether it will ever be relevant in the greater gaming landscape.
Schmendrick
Member
This is the same nonsense as "people can only perceive 30fps"
thismeinteil
Member
Of course it will. Tech progress isn't going to stop. It'll just take awhile. Probably much longer than 4K took. But, once the tech is cheap enough to have 55" 8K TVs for $400, people will start picking them up.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The great gaming landscape makes zero difference for me if I can play right now.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Okay? That has nothing to do with what's being discussed in this thread.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Given that most games have to sacrifice performance when activating native 4K, the question is a bit of a joke right now. Even if people had 8K TVs, gaming will take like 2-3 gens to catch up.
So, no.
So, no.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Not on a 8k screen.
Zathalus
Member
Yes, it would just require a multi monitor setup to display as there are no 16k monitors. You can down sample of course but that's rather pointless.
So yes, 16k gaming is possible but nobody is going to seriously use it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Then the question in the title and video is wrong/makes no sense.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
The problem is diminishing returns. For relatively normal-sized TVs (let's say 60"), going from 1080p to 4K is a huge difference, but from 4K to 8K, it's very hard to spot even at close distance. So why bother? Lol.
Killer8
Member
No, it isn't the same at all. You quickly run into the limits of human biology, living room size and budget. More likely all three at once.
Most people are not even taking full advantage of their 4K screens, let alone 8K.
The 8K difference will be the exact same story as the people who swear up and down that they can hear the difference in 192khz music vs 44.1khz (ie. 22.05khz per ear) - despite the audible hearing range in humans maxing out at 20khz. And that's in newborns, it declines to 16khz by your twenties.
4K is the end game for video content. No company or consumer is going to reasonably invest so much money into such a minuscule gain nobody can even see.
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Audiophile
Member
With modular MicroLEDS (and possibly/hopefully QDEL too) built from seamlessly joined wafers under a flexi glass panel I suspect we'll see 8K on 80"+ sets just by way of using more of the same wafer to reduce costs and simplify manufacture. Regardless of content they'll just use good scaling. See my old post below:
Even though I want regular games to target 4K with good scaling from roughly 1/2-res and use that horsepower on FX, Perf & Simulation, there's plenty of rudimentary games out there that will have loads of headroom, so I have no aversion to those cranking out as many pixels as possible. I also expect 1440p-2160p native titles will scale nicely to 8K with future AI/ML scalers. It may not add a whole lot of detail with most display sizes in most conditions, but it does lend a greater sense of presence, not to mention an intrinsic AA.
On the display side again, there's also the issue of light output, it might make more sense to decimate those pixels/subpixels down further and run more units at a lower light output rather than one larger unit going full-tilt; then group them in a lens array.
I think 8K will happen just as a matter of course, even if most content remains scaled to it; and I think it's enough overkill to assure perfection in any conventional setup should the content or scaling be up to the task. 4K is well along the curve of diminishing returns but I don't agree that they diminish entirely at that point. I think that happens somewhere inbetween, around 5-7K. I've seen high quality 4K content on 4K displays and 8K content on 8K displays...again, even though it doesn't feel more detailed it's as if the display stops existing between me and the content, it has a presence to it more akin to looking through a window.
I believe 8K truly is the end of the road in raw resolution for large, conventional displays in conventional settings; it'll just slowly creep up on us as a matter of course rather than being some big marketable buzzword.
After this though and beyond brightness increases (which can also indirectly solve motion issues, colour accuracy, efficiency and lifespan); I'd like to see the industry look to adding more primaries, 4, 6 or 9. RGB/BT.2020 can only present ~70% of human vision and the only way to increase that is move beyond the triangle. Film scanners and many cameras can already technically do it with minimal updates, the workflow should be able to be updated easily and on the display it's a case of more subpixels. Max light output, number of primaries and panel bit depth are the last 3 things left to solve for the spatial image in conventional displays.
See: https://6pcolor.com/faqs/
Even though I want regular games to target 4K with good scaling from roughly 1/2-res and use that horsepower on FX, Perf & Simulation, there's plenty of rudimentary games out there that will have loads of headroom, so I have no aversion to those cranking out as many pixels as possible. I also expect 1440p-2160p native titles will scale nicely to 8K with future AI/ML scalers. It may not add a whole lot of detail with most display sizes in most conditions, but it does lend a greater sense of presence, not to mention an intrinsic AA.
On the display side again, there's also the issue of light output, it might make more sense to decimate those pixels/subpixels down further and run more units at a lower light output rather than one larger unit going full-tilt; then group them in a lens array.
I think 8K will happen just as a matter of course, even if most content remains scaled to it; and I think it's enough overkill to assure perfection in any conventional setup should the content or scaling be up to the task. 4K is well along the curve of diminishing returns but I don't agree that they diminish entirely at that point. I think that happens somewhere inbetween, around 5-7K. I've seen high quality 4K content on 4K displays and 8K content on 8K displays...again, even though it doesn't feel more detailed it's as if the display stops existing between me and the content, it has a presence to it more akin to looking through a window.
I believe 8K truly is the end of the road in raw resolution for large, conventional displays in conventional settings; it'll just slowly creep up on us as a matter of course rather than being some big marketable buzzword.
After this though and beyond brightness increases (which can also indirectly solve motion issues, colour accuracy, efficiency and lifespan); I'd like to see the industry look to adding more primaries, 4, 6 or 9. RGB/BT.2020 can only present ~70% of human vision and the only way to increase that is move beyond the triangle. Film scanners and many cameras can already technically do it with minimal updates, the workflow should be able to be updated easily and on the display it's a case of more subpixels. Max light output, number of primaries and panel bit depth are the last 3 things left to solve for the spatial image in conventional displays.
See: https://6pcolor.com/faqs/
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Schmendrick
Member
Absolute and utter bullshit as anyone who's actually been able to compare knows.....
Have you ever actually seen a 120" screen with a 4k Pixel Matrix?.. It's not pretty.. Pretty atrocious actually if you don't have a very large viewing distance.
And that is before we've even talked about monitors where the PPI is much much more "in your face" due to the shorter viewing distance....
I haven't seen 16k devices yet, but the difference between 4k and 8k is very much perceivable on 77+" devices at about 3m and on our designer's monitors even more so....
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It will when it becomes a simple task for the hardware & a cheap upgrade for your TV.
Things kinda went crazy in the last 4 years so prices went up on things that was supposed to go down but don't be fooled 8K will be a thing in the next few years .
Do I need to remind you all of how you acted towards 4K before PS4 Pro was revealed?
Things kinda went crazy in the last 4 years so prices went up on things that was supposed to go down but don't be fooled 8K will be a thing in the next few years .
Do I need to remind you all of how you acted towards 4K before PS4 Pro was revealed?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
You should remind people how even those clowns at DF acted, especially when the PS4 Pro was announced, even towards upscaling and checkerboard, etc., etc..
Quantum253
Gold Member
At some point visual fidelity will be so marginal it won't be a topic of conversation. Maybe after the next next gens in 2030/2040 will be hitting 8K, but by then new tech might will probably have changed what we think of screens amd resolution. Then again it can be an argument of 8K versus 600 fps
Portugeezer
Member
That depends on the content.
The next consoles will probably finally get a stable 4k, many high end PC gamers barely give a shit about 4k, devs won't want to waste resources on 8k output.
8k is long away, but it's only a matter of time.
The next consoles will probably finally get a stable 4k, many high end PC gamers barely give a shit about 4k, devs won't want to waste resources on 8k output.
8k is long away, but it's only a matter of time.
