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[mckmas8808]

Nah. You have an audience of only one agreeing with you.

Marketing touching the heels of the development cost is not surprising at all. Especially for a first party studio, it's probably on the higher end.

From the CMA reports when the Activision merger was happening:










Read more: https://www.tweaktown.com/news/9133...e-to-make-discuss-aaa-game-budgets/index.html

Sony wasn't spending that type of money on marketing. Let's us not get stupid now. We saw the figures in the Insomniac leak.

 

[Gorilla Shark]

So by my math this one cost $1,000,000/lb?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So by my math this one cost $1,000,000/lb?

Sounds about right.

But dont forget to add the cost of ski goggles and dishwasher gloves.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony wasting money like it's the US government

Or Microsoft.

 

[mckmas8808]

Imagine blowing over $200 million and having nothing to show for it. That's crazy, Jim was smart to leave when he did.

The new CEOs have a long road ahead to recoup all that money.

Did he leave? Or was he kicked out?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Did he leave? Or was he kicked out?

He retired

 

[mckmas8808]

He retired

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Well usually people fired don't announce their departure 8+ months in advance (or whatever it is).

He had a long career and launched a successful console as CEO he probably thought he had accomplished everything he could in his career tbh

 

[Hypereides]

How much of Sony's money has Hermen Hulst wasted by now? How many studios closed? How many games canceled after multiple years of development?

Naughty Dog worked on The Last of Us 2 multiplayer for a couple of years and I'd assume that was a big team considering their ambitions. It was probably a good idea to cancel it, but that project alone must have cost at least $100 million dollars if not more. All those failures and closures are going to add up ...

The zealots will write you off and believe/defend the grand leader until he gets replaced. Then they'll flip their stance and say they always knew he wasn't the right guy for the job and praise the next one while everyone else had already made that observation in advance.

Its becoming predictable behaviour right now.

 

[Chechack]

No, just correctly reporting. Details actually matter

just like how u discard Collin and everyone opinion or source in this matter, people should discard your opinion also course who the hell are you and what makes your "details/source" more accurate than them

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

just like how u discard Collin and everyone opinion or source in this matter, people should discard your opinion also course who the hell are you and what makes your "details/source" more accurate than them

They can discard it all they want. Until Sony releases the actual numbers, or they somehow get leaked like they did with insomniac, it's nothing more than speculation.

 

[ikbalCO]

It just cost 170 jobs.

I mostly ment Herman Hulst

 

[Life Diff]

So 400m was right. The ex-IGN guy was right with their sources.

Colin was right

 

[hemo memo]

Would have been a disaster and a flop even if the budget was 20 million let alone over 200 million. Well deserved and good riddance!

They thought the game was too big to fail.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Colin was right

So right he was off by a factor of two!

 

[Dazraell]

So right he was off by a factor of two!

Here's the direct quote from Kotaku article

The initial development deal for the game was just over $200 million, according to two sources familiar with the agreement but who were not authorized to speak publicly about it. But Kotaku understands that amount was not enough to cover the game's entire development and did not include the purchase of Concord IP rights or Firewalk Studios itself, which Sony acquired only last year.

This means it's much more than 200 million

 

[hemo memo]

They can discard it all they want. Until Sony releases the actual numbers, or they somehow get leaked like they did with insomniac, it's nothing more than speculation.

Even at $200 million, it is still a spectacular disaster and a sinkhole that even re-releasing it as F2P wasn't worth it. It's so bad that they want to bury it and pretend it never happened.

 

[Life Diff]

So right he was off by a factor of two!

Reading comprehension is hard, the article specifically mentions before acquisition, marketing etc.

Some of you get really sore about Sony making mistakes. It's bizarre.

 

[TheKratos]

Thanks sony for wasting money and making pu ishing your consumers with inflated prices.

 

[captainnapalm]

I wonder if this monumental failure - coupled with a few other big ones like Suicide Squad - is finally going to get the message to the corporate paymasters that they are throwing mountains of money away on projects being held hostage by a lunatic fringe running wild.

 

[midnightAI]

Genuinely can't understand why they need to defend that heap of shit.

They aren't really defending it, just saying the figures Colin put out (400 million just on dev) don't make a lot of sense. Yes, it would be one of the most expensive flops ever, but would also be one of the most expensive games ever from Sony (the most expensive?), so more expensive than Spider Man, more expensive than Last of Us 2, more expensive than God of War etc. does that make any sense? (Even 200 million seems high looking at the quality of the game, but those cut scenes cost money, wonder if they could package those up as a series and sell them to Netflix get some money for them at least)

(As I said before, if that's the case then there is a money laundering scheme going on or something)

 

[kruis]

To all the people saying the Kotaku article is proof that Colin Moriarty was right, you guys don't seem to remember what he actually claimed: that Concord cost $400 million to make WITHOUT THE COST OF THE STUDIO ACQUISITION TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

Watch this tweet, you can hear Moriarty specifically stating this at 8:39



Moriarty says Sony lost $400 million PLUS what ever it cost to buy Firewalk Studios.

Kotaku says Sony lost $200 million PLUS what ever it cost to buy Firewalk Studios

So Moriarty was wrong all along.

 

[StueyDuck]

To all the people saying the Kotaku article is proof that Colin Moriarty was right, you guys don't seem to remember what he actually claimed: that Concord cost $400 million to make WITHOUT THE COST OF THE STUDIO ACQUISITION TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT.

Watch this tweet, you can hear Moriarty specifically stating this at 8:39



Moriarty says Sony lost $400 million PLUS what ever it cost to buy Firewalk Studios.

Kotaku says Sony lost $200 million PLUS what ever it cost to buy Firewalk Studios

So Moriarty was wrong all along.

Someone didn't actually read the article

 

[kruis]

Someone didn't actually read the article

I did read the article. This is a response to the people who claim that because Kotaku says Sony lost $200 million PLUS what ever it cost to buy Firewalk Studios, the total cost for Sony could be $400 million so Colin Moriarty was right after all.

 

[StueyDuck]

I did read the article. This is a response to the people who claim that because Kotaku says Sony lost $200 million PLUS what ever it cost to buy Firewalk Studios, the total cost for Sony could be $400 million so Colin Moriarty was right after all.

Colin never said the total cost for Sony was 400...

And the article says "if you read it" that the games development cost 200... buuuut also had alot of extra development costs not added, as well as things like marketing and so on.

The only thing that both Colin and kotaku said was that their numbers don't include a purchase from Sony.

 

[kruis]

Colin never said the total cost for Sony was 400...

And the article says "if you read it" that the games development cost 200... buuuut also had alot of extra development costs not added, as well as things like marketing and so on.

The only thing that both Colin and kotaku said was that their numbers don't include a purchase from Sony.

As I said: This was a response to the people who think the Kotaku article is proof that Colin Moriarty was right about the game having cost $400 million to make.

 

[StueyDuck]

As I said: This was a response to the people who think the Kotaku article is proof that Colin Moriarty was right about the game having cost $400 million to make.

But he is right...

Kotaku literally say that there is more costs that aren't factored into their number that they were given. Marketing is a massive part of a games budget and kotakus number didn't have it factored into their number.

Kotaku also says there were extra development costs so the game definitely went above 200mil.

Nothing you've posted says that Colin was wrong.

 

[Dazraell]

Colin never said the total cost for Sony was 400...

And the article says "if you read it" that the games development cost 200... buuuut also had alot of extra development costs not added, as well as things like marketing and so on.

The only thing that both Colin and kotaku said was that their numbers don't include a purchase from Sony.

I find it weird why people tends to push the narrative that Moriarty said Sony paid 400 million. I once had an encounter with a journo who went full bananas when I corrected them about it. Not only they started spurring some weird shit and insulting me, but also blocked me lol

I guess some people are just overly sensitive about the idea that this game not only tanked in sales but also had ridiculously huge budget. What's really to argue here? In each case it's money that was wasted. If rumor about 25k units sold is true, they haven't even recouped 1% of the lowest claimed budget lol

 

[Shifty1897]

So people now owe Colin an apology.

Really just James Sawyer Ford and Men_in_Boxes but they've chosen this particular hill to die on for some reason, which is just fascinating. It's like watching a flat-earther's mental gymnastics. I suppose they could just be trolling, no reasonable person would still doubt at this point.

Nope.

Not until we see the financials of 343's Halo Games, Suicide Squad, or Ubisoft's recent flops, and many others

Suicide Squad is the 18th best selling game of the year right now. Halo 5 sold 5 million copies. This is compared to a game that is estimated to have sold 25 thousand copies and that refunded all digital sales and offered refunds on all physical sales.

Colin claimed it was 400M BEFORE those costs

No, Colin reported the game's budget was 200m before Sony acquired them, then spent an additional 200m in outsourcing, additional dev time, and marketing to achieve MVP (minimal viable product). Take the L.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

Did he leave? Or was he kicked out?

He retired if they are telling the truth but it doesn't matter. He doesn't have to stick around to clean up the mess anymore plus I'm sure he made a crazy amount of money during his run.

 

[Cakeboxer]

Really just James Sawyer Ford and Men_in_Boxes but they've chosen this particular hill to die on for some reason, which is just fascinating. It's like watching a flat-earther's mental gymnastics.

They are allergic to Ls.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

(As I said before, if that's the case then there is a money laundering scheme going on or something)

The whole thing with ex-Bungie ProbablyMonster and Firewalk smells of scam. To me it's funny that none points out the fucking obvious, that some people grabbed the money and ran away, which is Bungie's standard procedure. Instead, we got embarrassing mental gymnastics and goalposting.

 

[Fake]

Some people really don't accept to take the L and move on.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Some of those Devs need to land on their feet alright, flipping burgers at McDonalds

Welcome to Waffle House, I'm The Professor I'll be your server.

Also, lol @ James Lost guy quadrupling down on his stupid takes.

 

[Astray]

James Sawyer Ford I don't really get the point of arguing about whether the game cost $200m or $400m.

Either way you are talking about a massive cost with absolutely 0 ROI, and that's not including reputation cost (Future SIE GAAS projects are going to be under the microscope from now on, and honestly you can't blame the public or the press for that, Concord generated a lot of laughs and clicks).

 

[Guileless]

I don't understand how the management that oversaw this can still have jobs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

James Sawyer Ford I don't really get the point of arguing about whether the game cost $200m or $400m.

Either way you are talking about a massive cost with absolutely 0 ROI, and that's not including reputation cost (Future SIE GAAS projects are going to be under the microscope from now on, and honestly you can't blame the public or the press for that, Concord generated a lot of laughs and clicks).

Because it's the only thing left he can defend. He can't defend it's a bad game, shut down studio or had zero sales. So the only thing he's got left is to fight vague numbers thrown around the net.

Nobody know what the true cost is unless Sony publicly states it somewhere in an earnings report. So all we can go off is what some articles say.

But it makes him feel better thinking somehow $200M loss and a shut down studio is better than $400M.

It really makes no difference. It might be right in the middle at $300M. But everyone is having a good laugh at it regardless of exact $$$ proof except him.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Really just James Sawyer Ford and Men_in_Boxes but they've chosen this particular hill to die on for some reason, which is just fascinating. It's like watching a flat-earther's mental gymnastics. I suppose they could just be trolling, no reasonable person would still doubt at this point.

Suicide Squad is the 18th best selling game of the year right now. Halo 5 sold 5 million copies. This is compared to a game that is estimated to have sold 25 thousand copies and that refunded all digital sales and offered refunds on all physical sales.

No, Colin reported the game's budget was 200m before Sony acquired them, then spent an additional 200m in outsourcing, additional dev time, and marketing to achieve MVP (minimal viable product). Take the L.

I feel like people have significant reading comprehension issues

Colin's $400M figure was only for development, it does not include acquisition costs. Don't link to an article parroting Colin. Listen to his podcast. He says it directly.

James Sawyer Ford I don't really get the point of arguing about whether the game cost $200m or $400m.

Either way you are talking about a massive cost with absolutely 0 ROI, and that's not including reputation cost (Future SIE GAAS projects are going to be under the microscope from now on, and honestly you can't blame the public or the press for that, Concord generated a lot of laughs and clicks).

I just want the story to be accurate. There's a very large difference between $200M and $400M.

Why are you so willing to let a supposed "not journalist" run with an unverified story as if it's fact? Especially when you have sources at Sony saying his number is not realistic

If you don't care about accuracy, it doesn't matter what the number is. Just throw out $1B for that matter, makes for good headlines but of course it's wrong, and it's hilarious people are coming out of the woodwork to claim "Colin was right" when there's absolutely zero new factual evidence that further corroborates his story….and if the game ends up "only" being $300M instead of $400M, then no…Colin was wrong and he greatly misunderstood his source.

Further complicating the matter is the VC funding which there's strong evidence to suggest that Colin does not have a good read on what those funds were actually allocated to.

 

[StueyDuck]

I feel like people have significant reading comprehension issues

Colin's $400M figure was only for development, it does not include acquisition costs. Don't link to an article parroting Colin. Listen to his podcast. He says it directly.




I just want the story to be accurate. There's a very large difference between $200M and $400M.

Why are you so willing to let a supposed "not journalist" run with an unverified story as if it's fact? Especially when you have sources at Sony saying his number is not realistic

If you don't care about accuracy, it doesn't matter what the number is. Just throw out $1B for that matter, makes for good headlines but of course it's wrong, and it's hilarious people are coming out of the woodwork to claim "Colin was right" when there's absolutely zero new factual evidence that further corroborates his story….and if the game ends up "only" being $300M instead of $400M, then no…Colin was wrong and he greatly misunderstood his source.

Further complicating the matter is the VC funding which there's strong evidence to suggest that Colin does not have a good read on what those funds were actually allocated to.

If only Colin said "approximately"... maybe we'd all be able to sleep at night.

When it ends up being 399million are we going to go through all this again

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why are you so willing to let a supposed "not journalist" run with an unverified story as if it's fact?

That's the rub in all of this. I don't have a horse in the numbers race, because I really don't give a shit.

But, 100% of the time, everyone, and I mean everyone in this thread shits on Kotaku, unless it comes to brand wars. Then Kotaku is a pinnacle of journalistic integrity that supports their confirmation bias in the war.

 

[PurePlatinum]

How is Hermen Hulst still the Playstation co-CEO right now at losing more than $400 million for Sony???

I don't think it's clear that he green-lit this - all we have is the "reporting" from Colin, which is clearly from someone with a major axe to grind. I'm sure the situation behind the scenes is much more complicated than "this is 100% Hulst's fault"

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Really just James Sawyer Ford and Men_in_Boxes but they've chosen this particular hill to die on for some reason, which is just fascinating. It's like watching a flat-earther's mental gymnastics. I suppose they could just be trolling, no reasonable person would still doubt at this point.

Suicide Squad is the 18th best selling game of the year right now. Halo 5 sold 5 million copies. This is compared to a game that is estimated to have sold 25 thousand copies and that refunded all digital sales and offered refunds on all physical sales.

No, Colin reported the game's budget was 200m before Sony acquired them, then spent an additional 200m in outsourcing, additional dev time, and marketing to achieve MVP (minimal viable product). Take the L.

Less than 12 people were working on Concord in someone's basement/garage in 2019 according to a Firewalk employee.

Two years later and 200 million dollars is spent?

Sorry bud, game development doesn't work like that. The most expensive part of production occurs in the last stages of production (2022 - 2024)

Btw, I have a bridge to sell you. PM me for details.

 

[mckmas8808]

He retired if they are telling the truth but it doesn't matter. He doesn't have to stick around to clean up the mess anymore plus I'm sure he made a crazy amount of money during his run.

It does matter because he could have "retired" knowing he screwed up with his GAAS push on Sony. Jim clearly knew Concord and buying that company was a bust.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't think it's clear that he green-lit this - all we have is the "reporting" from Colin, which is clearly from someone with a major axe to grind. I'm sure the situation behind the scenes is much more complicated than "this is 100% Hulst's fault"

If this is Hulst's baby it puts Sony in a very bad spot because they literally just promoted him. They did so because they thought he was doing a good job and believed in his vision. Firing him now sends a catastrophic signal. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it going forward.

 

[Astray]

I just want the story to be accurate. There's a very large difference between $200M and $400M.

Why are you so willing to let a supposed "not journalist" run with an unverified story as if it's fact? Especially when you have sources at Sony saying his number is not realistic

If you don't care about accuracy, it doesn't matter what the number is. Just throw out $1B for that matter, makes for good headlines but of course it's wrong, and it's hilarious people are coming out of the woodwork to claim "Colin was right" when there's absolutely zero new factual evidence that further corroborates his story….and if the game ends up "only" being $300M instead of $400M, then no…Colin was wrong and he greatly misunderstood his source.

Further complicating the matter is the VC funding which there's strong evidence to suggest that Colin does not have a good read on what those funds were actually allocated to.

I also want accuracy, but we're likely not getting it at this phase. The party that has the actual figures (Sony) is just not incentivized to share them at the moment (maybe they will have to if they to claim a tax break over it? The closest analogue there is probably the Warner Bros shelved films).

Until we do get figures, you are kind of wasting your energy because the majority here just wants to meme on the game.

This game is definitely a unique story that will be taught at business schools in the future, having a gaming studio incubator (ProbablyMonsters) is an idea that might be inherently flawed in a lot of ways that aren't immediately apparent at the conception phase.

If this is Hulst's baby it puts Sony in a very bad spot because they literally just promoted him. They did so because they thought he was doing a good job and believed in his vision. Firing him now sends a catastrophic signal. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it going forward.

Not likely that he gets fired because even $400m is not as substantial figure to Sony as we think it is.

This is a very high-risk-high-reward strategy, it's very unlikely that SIE or the Sony board didn't know that going in.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well usually people fired don't announce their departure 8+ months in advance (or whatever it is).

He had a long career and launched a successful console as CEO he probably thought he had accomplished everything he could in his career tbh

So you think it's coincidence he "retired" RIIIIIGHT before all the bad GAAS news started to hit Playstation? Keep in mind it started with the news that TLOU GAAS game was being canceled. Then continued to the disaster deal that PS+Bungie is. Now the cherry on top is Concord and the lost of $400 million.

This was all Jim Ryan's creation. It was his baby. Moving Sony to the Live Service sector of gaming was gonna be his biggest stamp on Playstation. That's clear.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So you think it's coincidence he "retired" RIIIIIGHT before all the bad GAAS news started to hit Playstation? Keep in mind it started with the news that TLOU GAAS game was being canceled. Then continued to the disaster deal that PS+Bungie is. Now the cherry on top is Concord and the lost of $400 million.

This was all Jim Ryan's creation. It was his baby. Moving Sony to the Live Service sector of gaming was gonna be his biggest stamp on Playstation. That's clear.

I don't think his retirement had anything to do with GaaS.

If Sony wanted him out because of it they would have fired him immediately and not let him plan his retirement

 

[PurePlatinum]

If this is Hulst's baby it puts Sony in a very bad spot because they literally just promoted him. They did so because they thought he was doing a good job and believed in his vision. Firing him now sends a catastrophic signal. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it going forward.

It's more likely to me that Ryan green-lit it, and him getting pushed out was a result of early numbers on this game, combined with the cancellation of several other projects, the acquisition of Bungie...etc.

Say what you want about Hulst, but the reason he's in the position he's in, is because he took a studio from being a B/C tier first party team, and brought them into the S/A tier with a massive new IP. They want that for all the B/C tier studios in the family, and they want Hulst to be the guy shepherding it.

Not saying Horizon is my favorite thing ever, but it's a lot better than Killzone ever was.

 

[sainraja]

I did not read through the entire thread but to sum it up:

• Some people will sleep better at night knowning that the budget for concord was 400m.
• Others will sleep better at night knowing the budget for concord was 200m.
• A few others will sleep better knowing that the budget for concord was between 200m and 400m.

Conclusion, concord will live rent free in the minds of many for years to come.

 

[64gigabyteram]

Yk I think it's about time James Sawyer Ford gets himself a new tag there's no way this guy isn't a pr agent in secret