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[cinnamonandgravy]

I've heard [BMWs] can go decently well if you maintain them well enough

BMWs tend to be sportier than the avg car, and sportier stuff tends to wear faster and cost more.
for example, the old NSX is a honda, but the required maintenance isnt like a civic.

my ~30yr old bmw (130k miles) has original paint, engine, tranny, etc.

i also have ~40 old mercedes that's the exact opposite of sporty (slowest mofo in the world), but i will die long before it does. ~350k miles, original engine, tranny, etc.

 

[Fess]

I am a lifelong console owner and I want to switch. Consoles do not have the appeal they once did. With all the pay services, micro transactions and just bland games I can pass. I am holding onto my PS5 just for GRand theft auto 6. I don't see a bunch of great games coming to consoles.

I’m not saying that it’s wrong doing the swap, I’ve done it too except for some very rare Sony exclusives.
But going for a cheap PC is a gamble. There is a real risk that you end up with a much louder box with little to no visual upgrade from consoles. Wait some more and aim for a higher budget and it’ll feel like you’re on an Ultra Pro console at all times.

 

[balls of snow]

I use a 3060 laptop and it runs games at 4K/60 using DLSS. Unfortunately, the 6GB VRAM will make it obsolete, but otherwise it is good enough.

Same laptop but I never run at 4k. Even 1440p is kinda shaky with current gen engines, but 1080p /60 is fine.

 

[Gamer79]

My Final Build and should easily exceed PS5 pro in performance and will last me 5+ years. I am not too concerned with an upgrade path because looking at what your average PC gamer games on this far exceeds the average just shy from the elite. Around $1,000 with the only used part being the GPU:

Case: https://www.amazon.com/Okinos-Micro-Pre-Installed-Panoramic-Tempered/dp/B0CQ8FT1JL ($60)
Mobo: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BSP61QZC/?psc=1 ($140)
CPU: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCF5CZ16?psc=1 (on sale for $175)
CPU Cooler: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJBZXVGY/?psc=1 ($24)
RAM: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LHPZK4P/ ($90)
GPU: MSI 3x ventus OC 4070 (used in like new condition) ($470 total when calculating shipping and taxes)
Nvme: 2 tb nvme drive (middle speed ) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C3B4BFQ3 ($98)
Nvme: 2nd drive: Free I am throwing in an older adata legend 1.3 nvme in the 2nd slot (free)
Power: (This company has been around for years) https://www.amazon.com/Segotep-Modular-Gaming-Supply-Certified/dp/B08W47MX46 ($80)
Total: About $1100

That CPU still smokes today and I plan on using it outside of gaming. Also that 4070 has 29 teraflops. I highly doubt the PS6 will come out with that kind of power. Also DLSS keeps evolving and will give this card many years of life. Thx for all suggestions and you did help me modify my build. I know some of you said am 5 for an upgrade path but I see no reason to upgrade this rig for 5 years or more.

 

[Neff]

Master race is a myth

Whenever I play a PC guy on Tekken 8 they're using wifi while running off a HDD

 

[Senua]

I've heard they can go decently well if you maintain them well enough- besides, not everyone buys a car for reliability. Types of people getting a sportscar probably already have a workhorse toyota they use for regular work

people like to hinge a car's worth on reliability like that's all there is to a good car

BMWs tend to be sportier than the avg car, and sportier stuff tends to wear faster and cost more.
for example, the old NSX is a honda, but the required maintenance isnt like a civic.

my ~30yr old bmw (130k miles) has original paint, engine, tranny, etc.

i also have ~40 old mercedes that's the exact opposite of sporty (slowest mofo in the world), but i will die long before it does. ~350k miles, original engine, tranny, etc.

 

[damiank]

The low end console gamer has a PS4/Xbox One
The mid range console gamer has a PS5/Series X
The high end console gamer has a PS5 Pro

Half of Sonys players are playing on PS4 and lower..
Most PC gamers have PCs better than a PS4 now.

PCMR continues

Now that's an achievement. Overcoming 10y old hardware.

 

[wafflecioccy]

My Final Build and should easily exceed PS5 pro in performance and will last me 5+ years.

That CPU still smokes today and I plan on using it outside of gaming. Also that 4070 has 29 teraflops. I highly doubt the PS6 will come out with that kind of power.

If we calculate by that same silly way of measuring, the PS5 Pro has (or at least was rumoured) 33.5 TFLOPs. Ada Lovelace tflops are not really real flops. It's dual issue fp32 math which is useless for games.

By that same measurement, OC RTX 4080 has 58 TFLOPs. It is not 5x+ faster than the PS5

 

[Clear]

PCMR be like; gets a chub on for a $2k GPU then on seeing a $700 console "INCONCEIVABLE !!"

You know its true!

 

[coolmast3r]

I'm afraid you just wholly misunderstood the substance behind the "pc master race" meme, cause it's not about the most powerful hardware available (though it is a part of it) but more about the sheer flexibility of PC as a platform. The freedom to tailor gaming experience to your personal preferences is key, and compared to what you get when you buy into a console ecosystem it's pretty much night and day difference.

 

[Bojji]

If we calculate by that same silly way of measuring, the PS5 Pro has (or at least was rumoured) 33.5 TFLOPs. Ada Lovelace tflops are not really real flops. It's dual issue fp32 math which is useless for games.

By that same measurement, OC RTX 4080 has 58 TFLOPs. It is not 5x+ faster than the PS5

It's ~3x

TF currently are not the best way to measure performance of GPUs.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Reading all the shit here, I got myself thinking I need to upgrade my rig with a 3080, 12700k, 32GB ram and two 1TB Nvme drives.

I play every single game I want to play at 1440p with high settings and have absolutely no issues. I'll upgrade when my PC struggles which won't be for a few years and by then I'll just get a new build.

 

[Gamer79]

If we calculate by that same silly way of measuring, the PS5 Pro has (or at least was rumoured) 33.5 TFLOPs. Ada Lovelace tflops are not really real flops. It's dual issue fp32 math which is useless for games.

By that same measurement, OC RTX 4080 has 58 TFLOPs. It is not 5x+ faster than the PS5

Your also forgettting that the PS5 is an APU with a much weaker CPU. I have a PS5 and not knocking it. To say a PS5 is near a gaming Rig with even a 4060 is kinda silly.

 

[HogIsland]

Reading all the shit here, I got myself thinking I need to upgrade my rig with a 3080, 12700k, 32GB ram and two 1TB Nvme drives.

I play every single game I want to play at 1440p with high settings and have absolutely no issues. I'll upgrade when my PC struggles which won't be for a few years and by then I'll just get a new build.

it's such an obnoxious line, and it tends to come from people who are clinging to an antiquated idea of console gaming where you put in a cartridge and play a game with no bugs and no loading. how are these the people saying pc only has value if you run a GPU intended for Pixar artists?

there are so many advantages to pc gaming. bleeding edge performance isn't in my top 3.

 

[Wolzard]

Yeah tbh I don’t understand who would be satisfied with a cheap $700 PC like Digital Foundry can go on about. Would likely mean a loud box and low settings on everything. What’s the upside at that point? Steam sales? mods? free online? It’s not enough imo. I’d say it’s better to wait another year and save up more cash and build something fairly highend, that’s when the real upsides of PC gaming can be felt.

Now, I don't understand that you spend a lot of money to buy a console, a machine that is only used to play games and has several limitations on how you should use your machine.

It may be a question that varies from person to person, I don't see myself buying a console, every time I bought it, I sold it shortly afterwards.

I prefer a weak PC to a console. The secret is to know the limits, if I have X performance, I'm not going to force a game that demands more from the machine, I'm going to go with what it can do. There is also an advantage in being able to play old games with maximum graphics, paying little for a machine.

I don't live on hype, so I don't play the game of the moment, I play what I want to play and with 40 years of video game history, there's no shortage of options. Instead of spending a lot of money on video games, I buy things for my home, buy books or make investments for my retirement.

 

[wafflecioccy]

Your also forgettting that the PS5 is an APU with a much weaker CPU. I have a PS5 and not knocking it. To say a PS5 is near a gaming Rig with even a 4060 is kinda silly.

I didn't forget any such thing lol

 

[Gamer79]

I didn't forget any such thing lol

 

[Gp1]

Imho PC master race is way more about the freedom/"open garden" system than the hardware. Buy a somewhat comparable with the current gen hardware and besides the contemporary games and you have access to:

One store is abusing its prices, buy on innumerous others, free games from stores etc

Heavy Modding in a bunch of titles (playing a WRPG on PC is a completely different experience) + passion projects like Stalker Anomaly/Gamma, PES SP Football Life, Enderal, CK3/ Mount and blade Crossover, etc.

Emulation up to Ps3/X360, Switch level

Perpetual compatibility with old titles/infinite backward compatibility + modding bring these games to a remaster/remake level.

And the list goes on and on...

 

[Fess]

Now, I don't understand that you spend a lot of money to buy a console, a machine that is only used to play games and has several limitations on how you should use your machine.

It may be a question that varies from person to person, I don't see myself buying a console, every time I bought it, I sold it shortly afterwards.

I prefer a weak PC to a console. The secret is to know the limits, if I have X performance, I'm not going to force a game that demands more from the machine, I'm going to go with what it can do. There is also an advantage in being able to play old games with maximum graphics, paying little for a machine.

I don't live on hype, so I don't play the game of the moment, I play what I want to play and with 40 years of video game history, there's no shortage of options. Instead of spending a lot of money on video games, I buy things for my home, buy books or make investments for my retirement.

Fair take, and I’m 99% PC gamer today so I know the upsides with old games and having choices etc. It’s just that lowend PC gaming isn’t for me, don’t like going with lower settings, I just feel like I miss out on stuff, and it’s too much work to get things running well, and having a noisy box if I cheap out on cooling is no fun.

That said, this is coming from an enthusiast gamer perspective and if one would add up the costs for enthusiast console gaming it would be expensive as well.

PS5
Extra SSD
PS5 Pro
Discdrive
X years of PS+

Xbox Series X
Extended Storage Card
X years of Xbox Gamepass Ultimate

That’s enthusiast console gaming if you don’t want to miss out on things.

What’s the total cost there? Has anyone dared to add it all up? Would be interesting to have the total cost for a generation as an enthusiast console gamer.

 

[KungFucius]

i often see, pc user in near me, told me that their pc is superior because it's price.
after strolling in this forum a bit, I think expensive is not always better.
because, if the pc is not build in a good way, it could led to bottleneck(?) and some games in console graphic are not too far either for me.
I dont hate pc user, since i'm also PC user, and have PS5, Switch, Steam deck, and Rog Ally as well (though my PC mainly for work, and not the beef like You guys).
I really don't like the way people who buys expensive PC and looking down to anything else.

well, each to their own, but they are, annoying, and usually doesn't have any knowledge to the game itself... and only be able to buy something expensive to raw power

This is nuts. Even if there is a "bottle neck", if everything is fast you still have a good system. More money very closely tracks to performance.

That said, a system built on a budget where someone deliberately chooses to get a 5070 Ti instead of a 5090 and pair that with an 8 core CPU instead of a 1k CPU and plays most games fine at 4k with DLSS when they could afford to blow 2k more but exercise restraint is a pretty smart thing. Not saying I am that person, but I would like to be.

 

[Topher]

That's one game though. DF did a comparison of PS5 vs 4070 Super earlier this year and while the Super was obviously faster across the board, the result varied from game to game. This is far from unusual and is why GPU benchmark videos usually compare a dozen games or so and look at the average variance.

Imho PC master race is way more about the freedom/"open garden" system than the hardware. Buy a somewhat comparable with the current gen hardware and besides the contemporary games and you have access to:

One store is abusing its prices, buy on innumerous others, free games from stores etc

Heavy Modding in a bunch of titles (playing a WRPG on PC is a completely different experience) + passion projects like Stalker Anomaly/Gamma, PES SP Football Life, Enderal, CK3/ Mount and blade Crossover, etc.

Emulation up to Ps3/X360, Switch level

Perpetual compatibility with old titles/infinite backward compatibility + modding bring these games to a remaster/remake level.

And the list goes on and on...

Agree. The value in PC gaming, to me, is really about freedom to do whatever I want with my system. I can do all the things you've mentioned as well as install an entirely different OS. The ability to customize the graphical experience based on my hardware choices is definitely an advantage but not my primary reason for gaming on PC.

 

[bad guy]

Looking at the Specs of the Series X and PS5 compared to the average PC hardware, it's clear to see the conosles outperform the average PC gamers hardware.

Watch out, you are comparing the average PC out there in use with current consoles, not all consoles out there in use.

Your build seems pretty damn good imho. I personally wouldn't even need all that GPU power. I'd get a 4060 and upgrade in about 5 years time.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

PC gaming is not a straight upgrade from Consoles. It's just a completely different experience.

These two types of gaming had been co-existing for decades now. However for a long time they were so far apart that Console gamers couldn't even see PC gaming where they were standing. But over the years tech start to converge and certain things exclusive to PC became part of console gaming too. And now they are similar enough on the surface that Consoles was able to recognize PC gaming existing.

But in the end the two markets serve different clients. Console gamers thinking PC gaming is about raw power, is just because they have a complete lack of imagination. It is hard for someone in a walled garden to know what it is like to be outside of it.

 

[RafterXL]

Watch out, you are comparing the average PC out there in use with current consoles, not all consoles out there in use.

Your build seems pretty damn good imho. I personally wouldn't even need all that GPU power. I'd get a 4060 and upgrade in about 5 years time.

Yeah, let's not ignore the fact that 90% of Xbox users are using are using an XSS or worse, 50+% of Playstation users are using a PS4, or worse, and the largest console on the planet is cell phone level hardware.

It's not that the average PC gamers has terrible hardware, it's the average gamer in general.

 

[RoboFu]

Pc is great because of options not because of graphics.
You are not stuck with a shitty frame rate. Even on low end PCs.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

But in the end the two markets serve different clients. Console gamers thinking PC gaming is about raw power, is just because they have a complete lack of imagination. It is hard for someone in a walled garden to know what it is like to be outside of it.

You made a great post up until this point.

I don't think console gamers lack imagination, they just tend to not give a shit about the majority of those other 'benefits'.

Hence why PC and consoles are two seperate markets.

Edit:

PC gaming isn't some rocket-science experience of mythical proportions.

 

[Kerotan]

You made a great post up until this point.

I don't think console gamers lack imagination, they just tend to not give a shit about the majority of those other 'benefits'.

Hence why PC and consoles are two seperate markets.

Edit:

PC gaming isn't some rocket-science experience of mythical proportions.

When you're too lazy to change your PS4 HDD the pc might as well be rocket science.

 

[Xdrive05]

Meh. "PC Master Race" has way more to do with the platform than the actual raw power of the hardware, though that is available too if you really want to spend on it.

I've been in the "master race" over two decades and only once have I had a high end video card. Mid range systems all the way otherwise. PC gaming is about the ever-growing library, the genres, the mouse & keyboard, the modding, etc.

 

[Zuzu]

This is why the argument that consoles hold back gaming at a technical level is a bit surface level. Perhaps they hold back graphical progress to a higher degree than would happen in a world in which they didn't exist, but even if consoles didn't exist PC gaming's technical potential would still be held back by low-end and mid-range PCs; of which the majority of PC gamers use.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

You made a great post up until this point.

I don't think console gamers lack imagination, they just tend to not give a shit about the majority of those other 'benefits'.

Hence why PC and consoles are two seperate markets.

Edit:

PC gaming isn't some rocket-science experience of mythical proportions.

You can't understand what you never experienced.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Pc is great because of options not because of graphics.
You are stuck with a shitty frame rate. Even on low end PCs.

Stuck with a shitty frame rate on what?

 

[RoboFu]

Stuck with a shitty frame rate on what?

Oops: Are not

 

[Hudo]

Imho PC master race is way more about the freedom/"open garden" system than the hardware. Buy a somewhat comparable with the current gen hardware and besides the contemporary games and you have access to:

One store is abusing its prices, buy on innumerous others, free games from stores etc

Heavy Modding in a bunch of titles (playing a WRPG on PC is a completely different experience) + passion projects like Stalker Anomaly/Gamma, PES SP Football Life, Enderal, CK3/ Mount and blade Crossover, etc.

Emulation up to Ps3/X360, Switch level

Perpetual compatibility with old titles/infinite backward compatibility + modding bring these games to a remaster/remake level.

And the list goes on and on...

This

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You can't understand what you never experienced.

It just doesn't matter.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

It just doesn't matter.

No skin off my nose. The recent frenzy about pushing PC is just astroturfing by Microsoft. Unlike consoles, PC gaming doesn't care about platform size because it can't die.

A console can die if too few people own it. PC doesn't have that problem due to self sufficiency.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I don’t even see PC as a sole platform. More of a network of platforms that any and everyone can enjoy a slice of. Be it a low-range, 3060 user or a powerhouse 3090/4090/5090 buyer! That’s the beauty of it.

Having a powerful console or two on the side with a Nintendo handheld/console combo sounds like a wholesome market, which makes the collapse of a platform all the more tragic (even though said platform brought it on itself).

 

[Drell]

Buying expensive PC is okay, everyone can do whatever they want with their money.

The problem is when PC master race people can't accept that you can have fun without 8k/300fps.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

The problem is when PC master race people can't accept that you can have fun without 8k/300fps.

 

[BacklashWave534]

Who cares what people say? They’re not paying for it. Truth be told most new games with fancy graphics are downright junk. And I say that as a sucker who bought a 4090.

Wouldn't say you were a sucker. The 4090 (at launch price) will probably be the best performance vs $$$ for many years.

 

[Gaiff]

Wouldn't say you were a sucker. The 4090 (at launch price) will probably be the best performance vs $$$ for many years.

That’s because of how awful every other high-end GPU has become, not because of the 4090’s particularly amazing value.

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

For me PC is master race because i can play Europa Universalis 4 and Supreme Commander:Forged Alliance on it.

 

[BacklashWave534]

That’s because of how awful every other high-end GPU has become, not because of the 4090’s particularly amazing value.

I wouldn't say amazing. At $1599 i would say fair at best. Especially since it will be a top tier card for the next 3 years (6 years from it's launch) at least. On the other hand you would have to be insane to pay $2700 for a 5090.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

No skin off my nose. The recent frenzy about pushing PC is just astroturfing by Microsoft. Unlike consoles, PC gaming doesn't care about platform size because it can't die.

A console can die if too few people own it. PC doesn't have that problem due to self sufficiency.

For sure.

But like you said, PC and consoles are seperate markets that have coexisted without any problem and they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

 

[Toots]

PC experience gives unmatched hardware modularity for sure

 

[bad guy]

Yeah, let's not ignore the fact that 90% of Xbox users are using are using an XSS or worse, 50+% of Playstation users are using a PS4, or worse, and the largest console on the planet is cell phone level hardware.

It's not that the average PC gamers has terrible hardware, it's the average gamer in general.

Nothing terrible about the hardware of an ancient PC or PS2, excellent games can be played on those.