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[TrebleShot]

An educated guess?

I'll bet you ANYTHING that this doesn't come to PC in 3 months. I'll even give you tremendous odds.

Did you read the part where I said I dont care.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I think where my caution comes from is that we've seen the "girlboss" trope get overused across film, TV, and games in recent years, often in ways that feel driven more by quota or trend than character depth. So when I see a new project with similar broad strokes, I'm naturally a bit more wary.

Almost every main character in video games is a boss. So by extension, female characters are going to be girlbosses... which is to suggest any overuse means simply existing...

Do you have a specific definition of girlboss that makes these characters different from their male counterparts? And how these characters are different from girlbosses throughout media history?

Why is it now a trope?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Did you read the part where I said I dont care.

No, I got stuck on the educated part.

 

[Ar¢tos]

It looks great, but I hope they move to something completely different for the next game. The samurai trend is getting tired and old.

 

[rofif]

Souls games might look linear, but those games are way more complex to do than stuffing a map with items and procedural quests. Souls games (before Elden ring) are all interconnected in clever ways and they are compelling you to explore their world that are actually way more interesting than those Ubisoft open-world clones.

No. Souls games have well connected worlds and builds. But the gameplay and controls are very simple. There are no overlaying systems, recruits, bases, reaources, tons of menus.
To go, kill, loot, level, explore

 

[omegasc]

This will be like Antz vs A bug's life

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

You are talking about an act of total hypocrisy when you tried to hide your wildly stupid judgmental take (he is a 13 year old andrew tate follower / He's gay) behind humor when it backfired on you...
Calm down with the "kid", "friendo" and other derogatory ways of calling people here. It doesn't make you look tough, it makes you look like a douche who's desesperately trying to appear tough because he actually is not.

Wow. You're super upset about this.

 

[vodka-bull]

what did game announcements and reveals turned out, i miss E3 so much

Everything is shadow dropped, no building up hype, games never felt so sterile.

Everything is shadow dropped?

Finally, a game, I'll also buy on release day. Last time I did buy a game day 1 was God of War Ragnarok…

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This will be like Antz vs A bug's life

My guess is even before this releases on PC, it'll outsell the multiplatform release of AC Shadows.

The best way to determine that is going to be by the ranking in the circana sales chart in the US. Any advantage AC Shadows might have had in Europe will be overshadowed by Ghost of Yotei's performance in Japan.

 

[viveks86]

Yeah, sushi1 felt good to control but it was beyond basic and repetitive, and enemy variety was terrible.

Even the stance system was deep as a puddle, just more damage against a certain type of enemy, niho stance system is vastly superior.

Let's hope they were able to take some elements from nioh and sekiro, which I think have the best swordplay to date

 

[miller152]

Almost every main character in video games is a boss. So by extension, female characters are going to be girlbosses... which is to suggest any overuse means simply existing...

Do you have a specific definition of girlboss that makes these characters different from their male counterparts? And how these characters are different from girlbosses throughout media history?

Why is it now a trope?

Girlboss = female character with basically everything that makes women different from men stripped away.
Her main emotion is anger and rage, because women showing any kind of emotional weakness is sexist.
When she's not angry, she is quippy, sarcastic and "cool", any sort of passive, "cute" or soft behaviour is also sexist.
Male villains are usually extremely ineffective against the girlboss because women are beautiful and strong, if a girlboss suffers it's because of female villains.
The girlboss is actually not inherently ugly, but she doesn't wear make-up or attractive clothes because she is not there to look good for you, male gaze bad.

 

[Unknown?]

Looks incredible. PC version when?

Available right now, in your browser!

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Girlboss = female character with basically everything that makes women different from men stripped away.
Her main emotion is anger and rage, because women showing any kind of emotional weakness is sexist.
When she's not angry, she is quippy, sarcastic and "cool", any sort of passive, "cute" or soft behaviour is also sexist.
Male villains are usually extremely ineffective against the girlboss because women are beautiful and strong, if a girlboss suffers it's because of female villains.
The girlboss is actually not inherently ugly, but she doesn't wear make-up or attractive clothes because she is not there to look good for you, male gaze bad.

Hilarious.

Ripley in Alien was written as a man. There is nothing about her character that is specific to her being a woman.

Is Aloy an angry or rageful character? Is she still a girlboss?

You think showing emotions isn't weak, but I'm sure you hate the new Kratos for checks notes... showing emotion...

So guybosses can be quippy, sarcastic, and cool, but if "girlbosses" are they are fitting a trope? Am I getting this right? Is Nathan Drake a girlboss?

Are male villains more effect against guybosses or is the entire purpose of video games to essentially defeat whoever the boss is? This seems beyond counterintuitive.

In Ghost of Yotei it seems that all Atsu's struggle is due to 6 male villains...

Do guybosses wear makeup? Again, I don't recall Ripley wearing makeup or Sarah Connor...

You're weird...

 

[Toots]

Wow. You're super upset about this.

Its ok piggy, you don't have to post a gif everytime you get owned on the thread.

 

[damidu]

Did you read the part where I said I dont care.

lol so just trolling then.

 

[Eastwood_333]

The only must have PS5 game this year for me. Hope it delivers.

 

[KungFucius]

The timing for this game is just off. I am not sure I will ever play this. I played the first one when I had PS++ and it was OK but got boring. I recently played AC Shadows so I am not sure I even care to play another open world Samurai game. Then there is GTA6.

 

[viveks86]

Welp, looks like we have run out of game footage to talk about. Back to our usual programming of culture wars, I guess!

Can we all at least agree that we don't want this segment to turn into a Callisto Protocol-esque amusement park ride?

 

[near]

Almost every main character in video games is a boss. So by extension, female characters are going to be girlbosses... which is to suggest any overuse means simply existing...

Do you have a specific definition of girlboss that makes these characters different from their male counterparts? And how these characters are different from girlbosses throughout media history?

Why is it now a trope?

Yeah, most lead characters are, by design, "bosses" in terms of capability. But when I refer to the girlboss trope, I'm talking about a specific writing pattern where female leads are built around surface level empowerment, relying heavily on traditionally masculine traits, and lacking deeper complexity. These characters are typically portrayed as super competent, emotionally restrained, and largely flawless, so instead of feeling like real people, they come off as symbolic or representative of an idea, and can skew towards being more masculine.

It's a trope when this style of character is repeated across media, not because it's bad to have strong women, but because these women are often written as strong instead of being written as interesting, vulnerable, or multidimensional.

When it done right: Daenerys (Game of Thrones)
She's resilient and capable, but also grounded, layered, and never has to reject her femininity to be seen as strong. She feels like a complete character. Her empathy, her nurturing and vulnerability are all part of her strength.

When it's done wrong: Abby (TLOU2)
She is a good example of the trope because her writing leans heavily into the physically strong archetype. She's emotionally closed off for large portions of the game, hyper-trained, and built more like a tank than a person with layers. And she forgoes her femininity.

That's the version of the girlboss trope I think we should move past, not because the traits in isolation are bad, but because we deserve better writing for female leads.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I think you may have misread me a bit, I didn't say that Ghost of Yotei isn't respectful of Japanese culture or that the protagonist can't fit within the era's social structure.

What I said was that if the shift to a female lead, especially in a historical setting like this, isn't narratively grounded in a way that makes sense within the world and era, then it can feel more like a symbolic or marketing driven choice than one rooted in storytelling. That's not the same as saying it's inherently wrong or disrespectful, it's just about execution.

From my limited exposure to Japanese culture that does not seem true: onne-musha (woman warriors) were historical and some we have historical records they actually fought in battles although most would use their training to defend home from thieves and bandits while husband was campaigning with the local lord. They feature in plays and kabuki and whatnot and some are really well known. Historically they trained in bows, polearms and firearms although not swords.

 

[GymWolf]

Let's hope they were able to take some elements from nioh and sekiro, which I think have the best swordplay to date

First game kinda already did, it was just a very poor\basic version of it, stance from nioh, parry focus from sekiro.

 

[viveks86]

What I said was that if the shift to a female lead, especially in a historical setting like this, isn't narratively grounded in a way that makes sense within the world and era

Are you Japanese or know anything about Japanese history or media? Heard of Onnamusha? Look up Lady Snowblood, the movie that inspired Kill Bill, that inspired the game. The game is basically Onnamusha Kill Bill.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah, most lead characters are, by design, "bosses" in terms of capability. But when I refer to the girlboss trope, I'm talking about a specific writing pattern where female leads are built around surface level empowerment, relying heavily on traditionally masculine traits, and lacking deeper complexity. These characters are typically portrayed as super competent, emotionally restrained, and largely flawless, so instead of feeling like real people, they come off as symbolic or representative of an idea, and can skew towards being more masculine.

It's a trope when this style of character is repeated across media, not because it's bad to have strong women, but because these women are often written as strong instead of being written as interesting, vulnerable, or multidimensional.

When it done right: Daenerys (Game of Thrones)
She's resilient and capable, but also grounded, layered, and never has to reject her femininity to be seen as strong. She feels like a complete character. Her empathy, her nurturing and vulnerability are all part of her strength.

When it's done wrong: Abby (TLOU2)
She is a good example of the trope because her writing leans heavily into the physically strong archetype. She's emotionally closed off for large portions of the game, hyper-trained, and built more like a tank than a person with layers. And she forgoes her femininity.

That's the version of the girlboss trope I think we should move past, not because the traits in isolation are bad, but because we deserve better writing for female leads.

Are Ripley and Sarah Connor examples of doing it right or wrong?

The traits you mention are traits that most main characters have, that you have a problem with female characters having those traits says more about you I think than anything about a trope.

 

[mckmas8808]

Going from "you sound like an Andrew Tate fan" to "you must be gay" is nutty work. We can't be having honest conversations about this if these are the claims put forward every time someone points out the conspicuous number of female protagonists in major franchises.

I don't even have a problem with it in this instance, but it's not made the game look anymore interesting.

It also doesn't make the game any less interesting.

 

[mckmas8808]

We should carve out spaces for actual dialogue, to talk about what works, what doesn't, and what meaningful representation actually looks like. Is the character meaningfully designed or is it a checklist for diversity? Is a fair and honest question to form a discussion around. Some assume that if you're questioning it in the first place that you're against it entirely. I think we've inherited purple forum refugees.

Would it be okay for some of us to question devs that make the lead character a straight white man also? Or is that off limits?

People were rightfully surprised that Sony supported Stellar Blade given their track record.
I mean, their female protagonists are ugly at worst and very average looking at best.
Then of course the whole lesbian agenda.
Ellie is gay
Aloy is gay
Selena from Returnal - no comment
Rivet - gay
Yotei - soon to be confirmed gay
Intergalactic - soon to be confirmed gay

Then you have stuff like this from the horse's mouth

"There are so many LGBTQ developers, and we want what players want - to design experiences that tell the player we're here, we're important, and we belong."

“We Need To Pull Every Lever We Have” - Insomniac's Narrative Director Discusses Lack Of LGBTQ Content in Video Games

We talked to Mary Kenney, associate narrative director at Insomniac Games about the lack of LGBTQ representation in gaming.

www.dualshockers.com

Why would you say Rivet is gay? WTF?!

 

[viveks86]

Why would you say Rivet is gay? WTF?!

Duhhh... Purple fur, no cleavage/tits, girl boss = Lesbian, obviously! She found the only other male Lombax in the whole universe and isn't thinking about screwing his brains out, repopulating and becoming the glorious apron-wearing, bread-from-scratch making tradwife she was destined to be.

 

[near]

Are Ripley and Sarah Connor examples of doing it right or wrong?

The traits you mention are traits that most main characters have, that you have a problem with female characters having those traits says more about you I think than anything about a trope.

Well, Ellen Ripley is a funny one, because the character was originally written to be a man. I think the role is largely carried by Sigourney's performance, which is brilliant. But the character is also very much layered, especially in James Cameron's version.

I'm not criticizing the traits themselves. I'm criticizing how sometimes female characters are reduced to a checklist of 'strong' without the depth that makes any protagonist memorable.

Would it be okay for some of us to question devs that make the lead character a straight white man also? Or is that off limits?

I think any creative choice, whether it's a straight white male lead, a gay lead, a woman of colour, or anything else, should be open to thoughtful critique. That's kind of the whole point of what I've been saying. We should be able to talk about whether a character works in the context of the story, if they're well developed, or if they're leaning too heavily on tropes, regardless of who they are demographically.

 

[mckmas8808]

Man what is even going on in this thread right now

Console warriors are fighting for their lives to make this game not sell to Gaffers.

Duhhh... Purple fur, no cleavage/tits, girl boss = Lesbian, obviously! She found the only other male Lombax in the whole universe and isn't thinking about screwing his brains out, repopulating and becoming the glorious apron-wearing, bread-from-scratch making tradwife she was destined to be.

Oh sorry, how didn't I realize that? Silly me.

Well, Ellen Ripley is a funny one, because the character was originally written to be a man. I think the role is largely carried by Sigourney's performance, which is brilliant. But the character is also very much layered, especially in James Cameron's version.

I'm not criticizing the traits themselves. I'm criticizing how sometimes female characters are reduced to a checklist of 'strong' without the depth that makes any protagonist memorable.

But this is the case for many male characters in games too. So why don't we see gamers talking about "boybosses"?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Well, Ellen Ripley is a funny one, because the character was originally written to be a man. I think the role is largely carried by Sigourney's performance, which is brilliant. But the character is also very much layered, especially in James Cameron's version.

I'm not criticizing the traits themselves. I'm criticizing how sometimes female characters are reduced to a checklist of 'strong' without the depth that makes any protagonist memorable.

I already mentioned that Ripley was written as a man. That doesn't answer my question.

You should stop and ask yourself if its you who is boiling down characters to a checklist or not and why you're doing it for female characters but not male characters.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I don't mind girl boss if they are also cute boss.

 

[Inspector Q]

Hilarious.

Ripley in Alien was written as a man. There is nothing about her character that is specific to her being a woman.

Is Aloy an angry or rageful character? Is she still a girlboss?

You think showing emotions isn't weak, but I'm sure you hate the new Kratos for checks notes... showing emotion...

So guybosses can be quippy, sarcastic, and cool, but if "girlbosses" are they are fitting a trope? Am I getting this right? Is Nathan Drake a girlboss?

Are male villains more effect against guybosses or is the entire purpose of video games to essentially defeat whoever the boss is? This seems beyond counterintuitive.

In Ghost of Yotei it seems that all Atsu's struggle is due to 6 male villains...

Do guybosses wear makeup? Again, I don't recall Ripley wearing makeup or Sarah Connor...

You're weird...

I can't really speak for others, but I don't consider Ripley to be a "girlboss".

One of the annoying hallmarks of a girlboss type character is that in order to make her look better they will write all the male characters around her as incompetent buffoons. That is not the case in Aliens. She is intelligent and competent, but so are several of her fellow male counterparts.

1. She actually allows herself to be trained by Hicks, a male character. A girlboss would already know what he is trying to teach her and might actually teach him a thing or two.

2. Her and Newt are saved by the Marines when they are being attacked by the facehuggers. A girlboss would have saved herself.

3. She develops a motherly relationship with Newt. The strongest people in the world are mothers, in my opinion. Not because they can punch someone in the face, but because they will sacrifice everything to make sure their children are fed. But I am biased in that regard due to my upbringing, lol. Anyway, she constantly dotes over Newt and develops a strong motherly bond with her. So I definitely disagree that she was "written as a man".

Anyway, with that being said, I have absolutely no problem with a female main character. This sounds similar to Kill Bill, and those were some amazing movies with an amazing main character in The Bride. Also not a "girlboss" for various reasons. Let's hope Atsu turns out the same way.

Also, I think one of the six targets, The Kitsune, appears to be a woman.

 

[near]

But this is the case for many male characters in games too. So why don't we see gamers talking about "boybosses"?

I mean, you're free to start a new wave. Girlboss came out of the feminist wave.

You should stop and ask yourself if its you who is boiling down characters to a checklist or not and why you're doing it for female characters but not male characters.

How so?

I mean, I see what you're doing. I'm not the one reducing characters to checklists the devs are, and you're deflecting from the actual point I made. I've made it clear that it's largely about the quality of writing.

 

[ByWatterson]

Almost every main character in video games is a boss. So by extension, female characters are going to be girlbosses... which is to suggest any overuse means simply existing...

Do you have a specific definition of girlboss that makes these characters different from their male counterparts? And how these characters are different from girlbosses throughout media history?

Why is it now a trope?

No it's a thing. The girlboss trope comes from presenting the female lead/protagonist as a Mary Sue with fully actualized character traits and no need for growth. You see this more in movies and television (She-Hulk, Star Wars sequel trilogy, Rings of Power, Indiana Jones, Archer's last season ), but you see it in games as well (Forspoken comes immediately to mind).

The key to avoiding the girlboss trope is not to avoid female characters or even to avoid making them physically capable. Instead, the writers need to create reasons for the characters to grow and in many cases become physically dangerous: Ellie learns knives and uses her small size to her advantage; Abby (who is based off an actual woman's body - Collen Fotsch) trains for years, and presumably this Yotei character has a similarly trajectory.

I'm not worried about this game at all, but the girlboss trope is real and real annoying.

 

[viveks86]

No it's a thing. The girlboss trope comes from presenting the female lead/protagonist as a Mary Sue with fully actualized character traits and no need for growth. You see this more in movies and television (She-Hulk, Star Wars sequel trilogy, Rings of Power, Indiana Jones, Archer's last season ), but you see it in games as well (Forspoken comes immediately to mind).

The key to avoiding the girlboss trope is not to avoid female characters or even to avoid making them physically capable. Instead, the writers need to create reasons for the characters to grow and in many cases become physically dangerous: Ellie learns knives and uses her small size to her advantage; Abby (who is based off an actual woman's body - Collen Fotsch) trains for years, and presumably this Yotei character has a similarly trajectory.

I'm not worried about this game at all, but the girlboss trope is real and real annoying.

Great examples and despite generally being on the other side of this debate, I agree with all of it

 

[Mibu no ookami]

No it's a thing. The girlboss trope comes from presenting the female lead/protagonist as a Mary Sue with fully actualized character traits and no need for growth. You see this more in movies and television (She-Hulk, Star Wars sequel trilogy, Rings of Power, Indiana Jones, Archer's last season ), but you see it in games as well (Forspoken comes immediately to mind).

The key to avoiding the girlboss trope is not to avoid female characters or even to avoid making them physically capable. Instead, the writers need to create reasons for the characters to grow and in many cases become physically dangerous: Ellie learns knives and uses her small size to her advantage; Abby (who is based off an actual woman's body - Collen Fotsch) trains for years, and presumably this Yotei character has a similarly trajectory.

I'm not worried about this game at all, but the girlboss trope is real and real annoying.

Is John Wick a Mary Sue? Is he a girlboss?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I can't really speak for others, but I don't consider Ripley to be a "girlboss".

One of the annoying hallmarks of a girlboss type character is that in order to make her look better they will write all the male characters around her as incompetent buffoons. That is not the case in Aliens. She is intelligent and competent, but so are several of her fellow male counterparts.

1. She actually allows herself to be trained by Hicks, a male character. A girlboss would already know what he is trying to teach her and might actually teach him a thing or two.

2. Her and Newt are saved by the Marines when they are being attacked by the facehuggers. A girlboss would have saved herself.

3. She develops a motherly relationship with Newt. The strongest people in the world are mothers, in my opinion. Not because they can punch someone in the face, but because they will sacrifice everything to make sure their children are fed. But I am biased in that regard due to my upbringing, lol. Anyway, she constantly dotes over Newt and develops a strong motherly bond with her. So I definitely disagree that she was "written as a man".

Anyway, with that being said, I have absolutely no problem with a female main character. This sounds similar to Kill Bill, and those were some amazing movies with an amazing main character in The Bride. Also not a "girlboss" for various reasons. Let's hope Atsu turns out the same way.

Also, I think one of the six targets, The Kitsune, appears to be a woman.

LOL, if Alien came out today, you'd be ripping her as a girlboss and complaining about How Arthur Dallas let's Kane into the spaceship...

Brett and Parker seem pretty incompetent to me as well.

Don't all the the marines die except for Hicks and the girlbosses?

What are the various reasons that The Bride isn't a girlboss? It's interesting to see you guys trip over yourselves to make excuses for characters that you would absolutely call girlbosses today.

 

[ByWatterson]

Is John Wick a Mary Sue? Is he a girlboss?

I mean the John Wick movies are hardly considered examples of great character development.

His background sufficiently explains his skills however - but the first movie IS about his development and revenge. He's not required to change, per se, but he is required to DO things that heal a wounded part of him. John Wick must drive the plot forward in order to ameliorate what's wrong with him at the beginning.

Which is to say something IS wrong with him at the beginning.

You know who's a goddamn Mary Sue? FORREST GUMP. Shit movie, for this EXACT reason.

 

[ByWatterson]

What are the various reasons that The Bride isn't a girlboss? It's interesting to see you guys trip over yourselves to make excuses for characters that you would absolutely call girlbosses today.

This indicates you haven't seen Kill Bill.

 

[Labadal]

Honestly, just give me a story about revenge, and let me kill stuff in cool ways, and we're cool.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I mean the John Wick movies are hardly considered examples of great character development.

His background sufficiently explains his skills however - but the first movie IS about his development and revenge. He's not required to change, per se, but he is required to DO things that heal a wounded part of him. John Wick must drive the plot forward in order to ameliorate what's wrong with him at the beginning.

Which is to say something IS wrong with him at the beginning.

You know who's a goddamn Mary Sue? FORREST GUMP. Shit movie, for this EXACT reason.

John Wick isn't an example of great character development, but the movies are wildly successful and I don't see anyone complaining about John Wick being a Mary Sue.

His background isn't sufficiently explained. Certainly not to the point where he's so OP compared to others with the same training.

He's sad his wife dies and angry... that's pretty much the entire plot. He doesn't really grow beyond that.

Thinking that Forrest Gump is shit because he's a Mary Sue also suggests that you missed the point of Forrest Gump. Being a Mary Sue isn't inherently bad, but it is used on forums as a bludgeon for female characters, especially if those female characters overcome male antagonists in any way.

Not only is it lazy, but it is inaccurate.

 

[viveks86]

You know who's a goddamn Mary Sue? FORREST GUMP. Shit movie, for this EXACT reason.

How is he a Mary Sue? Isn't he a terrible husband? Forrest is far from perfect.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

This indicates you haven't seen Kill Bill.

I've seen Kill Bill probably 20 times, including multiple times in the theater when it came out, but it sounds like you can't back up your own statements.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I gotta say, they're pretty cocky announcing it now before Rockstar made any moves. But on the other hand Sony already has Death Stranding 2 as this year's bigger release so they're probably ready to delay it to 2026.

 

[ByWatterson]

John Wick isn't an example of great character development, but the movies are wildly successful and I don't see anyone complaining about John Wick being a Mary Sue.

His background isn't sufficiently explained. Certainly not to the point where he's so OP compared to others with the same training.

He's sad his wife dies and angry... that's pretty much the entire plot. He doesn't really grow beyond that.

But John Wick movies aren't character movies. They are the equivalent of Bayonetta.

And no one complains about Bayonetta being a girlboss.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I gotta say, they're pretty cocky announcing it now before Rockstar made any moves. But on the other hand Sony already has Death Stranding 2 as this year's bigger release so they're probably ready to delay it to 2026.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

But John Wick movies aren't character movies. They are the equivalent of Bayonetta.

And no one complains about Bayonetta being a girlboss.

No one complains about Bayonetta being a girlboss because

A) She predates when people were complaining about this
B) She wears skimpy outfits

 

[near]

John Wick isn't an example of great character development, but the movies are wildly successful and I don't see anyone complaining about John Wick being a Mary Sue.

His background isn't sufficiently explained. Certainly not to the point where he's so OP compared to others with the same training.

He's sad his wife dies and angry... that's pretty much the entire plot. He doesn't really grow beyond that.

Thinking that Forrest Gump is shit because he's a Mary Sue also suggests that you missed the point of Forrest Gump. Being a Mary Sue isn't inherently bad, but it is used on forums as a bludgeon for female characters, especially if those female characters overcome male antagonists in any way.

Not only is it lazy, but it is inaccurate.

John Wick doesn't have deep character writing. His story arc is simple and the films don't try to hide that. But that is kind of the point. He is Baba Jaga, he is a mythic figure in a hyper violent revenge fantasy. There is no emotional complexity, they're giving us action and worldbuilding. That is the storytelling foundation of John Wick. And plenty of people do critique the writing in the films, but they don't call him Mary Sue because that term is reserved for female characters. This is a linguistic issue not a critical one.

 

[Inspector Q]

LOL, if Alien came out today, you'd be ripping her as a girlboss and complaining about How Arthur Dallas let's Kane into the spaceship...

Brett and Parker seem pretty incompetent to me as well.

Don't all the the marines die except for Hicks and the girlbosses?

What are the various reasons that The Bride isn't a girlboss? It's interesting to see you guys trip over yourselves to make excuses for characters that you would absolutely call girlbosses today.

The Bride gets completely humiliated by Pai Mei during training. She came there thinking she was a girlboss....and then she got put in her place real fucking quick. Budd gets the drop on her and literally buries her alive. It's only thanks to Pai Mei's training that she gets out of it. How did you forget all of this if you have seen it 20 times?

 

[ByWatterson]

I've seen Kill Bill probably 20 times, including multiple times in the theater when it came out, but it sounds like you can't back up your own statements.

The entire Pai Mei sequence, her doe-eyed surprise at Bill's betrayal, her sudden surge of maternal feelings, and the pain she feels in having to kill Bill are all examples of flaws, overcoming obstacles, development, and textured humanity.

She's a bad bitch. She's not a girlboss.

 

[ByWatterson]

The Bride gets completely humiliated by Pai Mei during training. She came there thinking she was a girlboss....and then she got put in her place real fucking quick. Budd gets the drop on her and literally buries her alive. It's only thanks to Pai Mei's training that she gets out of it. How did you forget all of this if you have seen it 20 times?