Support NeoGAF

[ProtoByte]

We should carve out spaces for actual dialogue, to talk about what works, what doesn't, and what meaningful representation actually looks like. Is the character meaningfully designed or is it a checklist for diversity? Is a fair and honest question to form a discussion around. Some assume that if you're questioning it in the first place that you're against it entirely. I think we've inherited purple forum refugees.

Well Serg has been on this forum for over a decade, so the reee thing won't directly apply. He's going too hard, but I think some people who raise an eyebrow at questioning of insert x category are doing it from a place of some legitimacy - there are pockets online that are genuinely hostile to the idea of anything that isn't a white man as a protag or sufficiently "based" enough as a premise, world, or concept, and they will often hide in amongst normal people asking reasonable questions.

Nothing I've seen from Beige indicates he's irrational.

To that point:

Is the number of male protagonists also 'conspicuous'? Or, is it only 'conspicuous' when it's a female protagonist?

Let's not dance around it:

Even when looking at them alone, PlayStation has turbo charged the fem in their products. Aloy's only romantic interest after 2 full games is another woman: After decommissioning Nathan Drake and going with 2 female protags for both Lost Legacy and TLOU2, ND's new IP stars the most alt, queer coded of female characters perhaps in AAA gaming to this point. They added female protag to Ratchet, are about to add one (very stupidly) to Spider-Man after essentially making MJ a superhero herself. Even the Wolverine game could not avoid just having to have a playable female character in Jean Grey, and a very very "Current day" interpretation of the character therein barring a major overhaul. Returnal had a female protag too.

Ghost of Yotei is coming from a studio based in Bellevue fucking Washington, and the actress they've chosen is a non-binary self identifier that makes sure to be conspicuous in terms of appearance and social activism. There can only be so many explicated mission statements to push women (whether they identify specifically as that or not) and so much execution of those mission statements before it all does become conspicuous. Obvious even.

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

Let's not dance around it:

Here's the thing - I don't understand why people care so much. I find it ridiculous and laughable.

Spider-Man 2 was woke and annoying, Preachy, irritating, and sanctimonious. But, I bought it to swing around a city and hit buttons, so really, whatever retarded bullshit they pack the game with means absolutely fuck all. It causes me no pain, it does nothing, it means nothing, it's just empty junk rattling around inside some dopey consumer product that I own to kill the time between work and finally dropping dead at my desk.

It's the passion that people have on forums for this stuff that I find so fucking bizarre. You don't have to like it, or love it, but the hilarious posturing and TAKING A STAND language is all so fucking funny. When some Reeeeee idiot does it because there aren't enough Palestinians in Super Dragon Sequel VI, we laugh - and rightly so. But, when someone on NeoGAF has a spaz attack because some laughably cringy enby otherkin dumbass is a meat suit for motion capture - I'm supposed to take it seriously?

Nuh, uh. Retardation is retardation, regardless of your Very Super Important And Totally Not The Same Reason For Doing It.

 

[GymWolf]

this night time shot looks so last gen lol. though tbf, ac shadows looked really bad at night in some seasons.

i think this is a way bigger upgrade than ragnorak. ragnorak virtually looked identical to the first game. this is a spiderman 1 to spiderman 2 or horizon zd to horizon fw caliber leap. Significant but not generational. it could definitely look better than this.

This is not a zd to fw jump, come the fuck on.

 

[captainnapalm]

You guys are pretty transparent when you start pulling out these gifs. Not even my sister would do something this lame.

Anyway, enjoy your girlboss Sony game - yet another one to add to this list. Except this one stars a total lunatic pretending to be a serious, solemn, contemplative samurai. I remember when it was first announced she was playing the role some of her tweets emerged, like when she claimed to have bitten some guy's fingers for hitting on her. A mentally deranged lunatic lying about psychotic shit because she's crazy enough to think it makes her look cool.

And then Sony makes her the lead in their Ghost of Tshushima sequel lol.

 

[near]

Oh, of course! It was just a 'general observation', not an act of total hypocrisy. My mistake.

I'm not 'called out' by forum posters, friendo. I think you're a chucklehead and a time waster, and I'm replying in kind.

If I'm a time waster, you've sure spent a lot of time replying. Think on that, friendo.

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

If I'm a time waster, you've sure spent a lot of time replying. Think on that, friendo.

That's what forums are for, genius. Replying to people. Didn't you know that?

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

You guys are pretty transparent when you start pulling out these gifs. Not even my sister would do something this lame.

Anyway, enjoy your girlboss Sony game - yet another one to add to this list. Except this one stars a total lunatic pretending to be a serious, solemn, contemplative samurai. I remember when it was first announced she was playing the role some of her tweets emerged, like when she claimed to have bitten some guy's fingers for hitting on her. A mentally deranged lunatic lying about psychotic shit because she's crazy enough to think it makes her look cool.

And then Sony makes her the lead in their Ghost of Tshushima sequel lol.

 

[rofif]

Yeah, sushi1 felt good to control but it was beyond basic and repetitive, and enemy variety was terrible.

Even the stance system was deep as a puddle, just more damage against a certain type of enemy, niho stance system is vastly superior.

Basic is good. Overcomplication is the worst. It was refreshingly basic and good. Compared to like ac shadows with needles mechanics.
It got repetitive because the open world was still a bit too big and had too many activities and some people feel the need to do everything. I finished the game in 30 hours, did side quests and activities until the moment it felt repetitive, stopped and played the story.

Meanwhile wc shadows is 10x bigger and got 100x more activities…. So if got is too big and repetitive, ac shadows is even more so.

Point being - linear games were good. Simple is good. Look at souls games (not Elden ring). It's very simple in fact. That's why it's good

 

[captainnapalm]

Here's the thing - I don't understand why people care so much. I find it ridiculous and laughable.

Spider-Man 2 was woke and annoying, Preachy, irritating, and sanctimonious. But, I bought it to swing around a city and hit buttons, so really, whatever retarded bullshit they pack the game with means absolutely fuck all. It causes me no pain, it does nothing, it means nothing, it's just empty junk rattling around inside some dopey consumer product that I own to kill the time between work and finally dropping dead at my desk.

It's the passion that people have on forums for this stuff that I find so fucking bizarre. You don't have to like it, or love it, but the hilarious posturing and TAKING A STAND language is all so fucking funny. When some Reeeeee idiot does it because there aren't enough Palestinians in Super Dragon Sequel VI, we laugh - and rightly so. But, when someone on NeoGAF has a spaz attack because some laughably cringy enby otherkin dumbass is a meat suit for motion capture - I'm supposed to take it seriously?

Nuh, uh. Retardation is retardation, regardless of your Very Super Important And Totally Not The Same Reason For Doing It.

Now your argument's really falling apart. You didn't care they made a single-player story-driven Spider-Man game "Preachy, irritating, and sanctimonious" because you could press buttons and swing? Also you seem quite passionate about liking to play bad games actually.

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

Now your argument's really falling apart. You didn't care they made a single-player story-driven Spider-Man game "Preachy, irritating, and sanctimonious" because you could press buttons and swing? Also you seem quite passionate about liking to play bad games actually.

No, nothing's falling apart. The game was fun, and I don't care about their retarded politics.

Is that really something you just cannot fathom? Really?

 

[captainnapalm]

No, nothing's falling apart. The game was fun, and I don't care about their retarded politics.

Is that really something you just cannot fathom? Really?

No I can't because that woke bullshit infects every aspect of the game - from the visuals to the characters and the storylines - why would you not care about it when it has such a big impact on the product? Surely you realze that not everyone wants to just switch off their brains and press buttons with no concern for what they're actually consuming.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Let's not dance around it:

Even when looking at them alone, PlayStation has turbo charged the fem in their products. Aloy's only romantic interest after 2 full games is another woman: After decommissioning Nathan Drake and going with 2 female protags for both Lost Legacy and TLOU2, ND's new IP stars the most alt, queer coded of female characters perhaps in AAA gaming to this point. They added female protag to Ratchet, are about to add one (very stupidly) to Spider-Man after essentially making MJ a superhero herself. Even the Wolverine game could not avoid just having to have a playable female character in Jean Grey, and a very very "Current day" interpretation of the character therein barring a major overhaul. Returnal had a female protag too.

Ghost of Yotei is coming from a studio based in Bellevue fucking Washington, and the actress they've chosen is a non-binary self identifier that makes sure to be conspicuous in terms of appearance and social activism. There can only be so many explicated mission statements to push women (whether they identify specifically as that or not) and so much execution of those mission statements before it all does become conspicuous. Obvious even.

First, I think you should ask yourself why you care so much in the first place what gender a character is and if you didn't think the reverse was a bad thing why you would think this was a bad thing.

For decades we got the same character in video games. Generic white male with a history of military or police or something. All these characters were so similar to each other.

I think you're also conflating a lot of things and ignoring things as well.

Ghost of Tsushima came out and people hated Jin Sakai and thought he was boring and dull.

A lot of this is simply about differentiating products and gameplay. Notice that in the first Spider-Man game, it wasn't just MJ, it was also Miles pre-spider bite. These are used to break up the gameplay loop so that you don't get tired of them playing 20+ hour games. You bring up Wolverine, but you don't realize how boring it would be to play as Wolverine for 15 hours of straight melee and by building in Jean Gray, not only do you break up the gameplay loop, but you have the character ready to go for X-Men, which we already know they're working on after Wolverine. They literally do the same thing in God of War Ragnarok but it has nothing to do with diversity (people also complain about Atreus), but as I said, people continue to miss the point, it's about breaking up gameplay loops.

With your criticism you're ignoring games like God of War Ragnarok, Sackboy, Astro bot, Spider-Man Miles, Morales, Spider-Man 2, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOUP1 Remake, Rise of the Ronin, and coming up Death Stranding 2, Saros, Wolverine, and Lost Soul Aside, not to mention probably Venom. The vast majority of Sony's games are still driven by male characters.

It's also funny that no one complains about Stellar Blade.

So many of you are choosing to die on this really silly hill. At the end of the day I've never cared whether a main character or side character was male or female. It literally doesn't matter. It's a video game. Some of my favorite characters are male and some of my favorite characters are female.

The only thing I will say is that I think Insomniac missed a great opportunity to build a much better female playable character in Black Cat, but I can also understand a bit why they didn't use her. The wanted to build stealth only sections and she has super strength. If she gets caught it's not really game over and then it makes it a stealth optional section. I think there are arguments either way there, but I think she would have been a better choice rather than shoehorning in MJ who is just a regular person.

I'll also say that they didn't do enough to differentiate between Ratchet and Rivet and I get that they canonically the same person from different dimension, but they're still different dimensions meaning that they've had different experiences. They should have had some differences in their gameplay loop to make it more enjoyable to switch between them. This was another missed opportunity.

One concern I have is that Insomniac doesn't seem to take feedback well on their games. Instead they double down. Eventually it's going to come back to bite them.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Relax all caps typer.

I dont even play as female characters in games unless it's Diablo due to the character class (Bowazon or Javazon).

Whether you like it or not, gamers like to play as meatheads or sexy female characters with skintight pants showing their ass. Not unattractive actresses like Erika Isshi. Your beef isnt with me, it's against all the consumers who feel the same.

I quite liked playing as Abby and Ellie from the Last of Us Part 2 personally and I doubt I'm an annomily. I've never really been fussed either way whether I play as a male or female. As long as the story fits the character I'm happy.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You guys are pretty transparent when you start pulling out these gifs. Not even my sister would do something this lame.

Anyway, enjoy your girlboss Sony game - yet another one to add to this list. Except this one stars a total lunatic pretending to be a serious, solemn, contemplative samurai. I remember when it was first announced she was playing the role some of her tweets emerged, like when she claimed to have bitten some guy's fingers for hitting on her. A mentally deranged lunatic lying about psychotic shit because she's crazy enough to think it makes her look cool.

And then Sony makes her the lead in their Ghost of Tshushima sequel lol.

You don't see how transparent YOU are here?

Can you name any female MAIN characters in games that you like? Can you make a list of 5 that AREN'T "girlbosses"?

Also if you can't, maybe that should tell you something too...

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

No I can't because that woke bullshit infects every aspect of the game - from the visuals to the characters and the storylines - why would you not care about it when it has such a big impact on the product? Surely you realze that not everyone wants to just switch off their brains and press buttons with no concern for what they're actually consuming.

Are you sure you don't just have... problems?

If you can't enjoy a piece of bullshit media unless it reflects your politics, you might need to rethink your entire life.

 

[Calverz]

Gameplay is all displayed in that trailer in a 21:9 ratio. PC release?

 

[GymWolf]

Basic is good. Overcomplication is the worst. It was refreshingly basic and good. Compared to like ac shadows with needles mechanics.
It got repetitive because the open world was still a bit too big and had too many activities and some people feel the need to do everything. I finished the game in 30 hours, did side quests and activities until the moment it felt repetitive, stopped and played the story.

Meanwhile wc shadows is 10x bigger and got 100x more activities…. So if got is too big and repetitive, ac shadows is even more so.

Point being - linear games were good. Simple is good. Look at souls games (not Elden ring). It's very simple in fact. That's why it's good

Shadows combat is basic aswell dude, a couple of cooldown abilities don't make that combat elaborate or anything, you mindlessly spam attack with yasuke and with naoe is just a matter of spacing yourself while you use the aoe in the chained blade and fuck everyone around you, that game combat is pretty trash.

I prefer my games to have multiweapons and something more than basic systems, we don't have all the same taste when it comes to combat, basic shit annoys me after a while unless the audiovisual of the hits\ragdoll\gore are pristine, and that is not the case with tsushi1.

Both games are 7\10 at the very best in my book

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

I quite liked playing as Abby and Ellie from the Last of Us Part 2 personally and I doubt I'm an annomily. I've never really been fussed either way whether I play as a male or female. As long as the story fits the character I'm happy.

I didn't realise that Abby was so hated until after I finished the game and I saw people behaving like complete mental patients online over her.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I don't want to get into this too much but I'll just state this:

1) Judging someone for wanting to play as a male because they are a male in a derogatory fashion is lame--the tables could be flipped just as easily and there are many words out there to call people that want to overtly play as females for some odd reason.

2) Yes, having a large number of female protagonists is rather 'conspicuous', especially masculine ones, given that its an inorganic trend that has latched onto the industry only in the past few years, and that the vast majority of core gamers (80%+ for various gaming polls I've seen) are in fact male.
The bullshit 50/50 split has no factual source; its just a number conjoured up by false narrators and highly inflated with trash mobile games and minecraft.

Have a great day.

Historically narrative mediums featured women as much as men. Why should video games be different?

Although admittedly we're going through a correction period after having the medium dominated by male protagonists to the point the strong female protagonist is becoming blasé.

 

[TrebleShot]

Gameplay is all displayed in that trailer in a 21:9 ratio. PC release?

Yeah it will definitely come to PC, but probably like 3 months later.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sony should ask themselves why this trailer was so much more positively received than the first.

• Includes a release date
• Includes much more detail
• Isn't part of a state of play or award ceremony

Sony should recognize that their success has created a large group of haters (some deserved some not deserved). Mainly Xbox fans who don't get their games, PC players who don't get their games day 1, probably "some" level of Nintendo fans, and for political reasons. You're also going to get sony single player fans who don't like sony investing any resources in multiplayer games and some sony fanboys who get upset with games releasing day 1 on PC and/or Switch.

Sony needs to read the room and understand the climate that they're in lest they cost a lot of people their jobs.

They released this trailer without announcement and without anything else attached. It gave no time for anyone to prepare a hate campaign against it. It was mostly just people's genuine reaction to the trailer and it's been overwhelmingly positive.

Compare this to Intergalactic which also stars a female character. No release date, announced during the game awards to the tune of basically all the sony haters on the internet at once (especially when hate against Naughty Dog is at very high levels). Very scant on details.

If I'm Naughty Dog, the next time I show Jordan Munn, I'd redesign her with hair, even if they just use the hair growth to show the passage of time. Work something into it to have her hair growing to silence a lot of people, so we can all focus on the game.

 

[Putonahappyface]

I didn't realise that Abby was so hated until after I finished the game and I saw people behaving like complete mental patients online over her.

Well I kind of expected it after Abby took a golf club to his head. Joel is a popular protagonist after all. I wasn't angry that he was killed off so quickly just shocked. The death threats that some of the voice actors received was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[captainnapalm]

You don't see how transparent YOU are here?

Can you name any female MAIN characters in games that you like? Can you make a list of 5 that AREN'T "girlbosses"?

Also if you can't, maybe that should tell you something too...

I like Lara Croft - even the modern version - I've played those games many times because you don't get the sense there's any agenda with the way she is portrayed. Elena in the Uncharted games, the female characters in Resident Evil, Amicia in the first Plague Tale game. Basically you have to go back in time a bit before the modern woke nonsense took over.

The recent female characters in Sony games are literally some of the worst female characters I've ever come across in any media ever. Aloy, Mary-Jane, Abby, that new one in Intergalactic - people saw like two minutes of her and almost everyone instantly hated her. It's all about trying to make some feminist point with these characters, and it just makes totally unlikable. At least with Yotei they might have to rein themselves in a bit because it's a historical setting, but considering who they hired and how lame they made the male main character in the first game, I'm very doubtful.

Are you sure you don't just have... problems?

If you can't enjoy a piece of bullshit media unless it reflects your politics, you might need to rethink your entire life.

Sure there's something wrong with me because I don't want to play, by your own definition, "woke and annoying, preachy, irritating, and sanctimonious" games. Do you people even hear yourselves?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Gameplay is all displayed in that trailer in a 21:9 ratio. PC release?

Yeah it will definitely come to PC, but probably like 3 months later.

See above for examples of why Sony gets hate from the PC community.

Anger over games not releasing day 1 and copium that a major AAA release is going to hit PC in 3 months... when it absolutely won't.

The soonest a AAA original game has hit PC I believe was Spider-Man 2 and I think they sped that up due to Marvel and how much the licensing costs. When you think about it, they probably wouldn't even make that much money on the PC game due to licensing and steam royalties... It's pure profit at the end of the day, but it isn't nearly as much as you would think if the royalties are anywhere similar to the X-Men deal.

Normal gamers would just be happy to be getting games that used to not release at all on their platform.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I like Lara Croft - even the modern version - I've played those games many times because you don't get the sense there's any agenda with the way she is portrayed. Elena in the Uncharted games, the female characters in Resident Evil, Amicia in the first Plague Tale game. Basically you have to go back in time a bit before the modern woke nonsense took over.

The recent female characters in Sony games are literally some of the worst female characters I've ever come across in any media ever. Aloy, Mary-Jane, Abby, that new one in Intergalactic - people saw like two minutes of her and almost everyone instantly hated her. It's all about trying to make some feminist point with these characters, and it just makes totally unlikable. At least with Yotei they might have to rein themselves in a bit because it's a historical setting, but considering who they hired and how lame they made the male main character in the first game, I'm very doubtful.

I asked you to name MAIN characters who aren't girllbosses and you named Lara Croft, who is like THE girlboss...

You see agendas where you want to and like I said, you should ask yourself why.

Then you go on to name a non playable character and you're weren't even ready to name specific characters in Resident Evil in your first post...

The only thing that has really changed is you. Hopefully you don't take too long to realize that.

Imagine disliking a character based on a 2 minute trailer....

 

[captainnapalm]

I asked you to name MAIN characters who aren't girllbosses and you named Lara Croft, who is like THE girlboss...

You see agendas where you want to and like I said, you should ask yourself why.

Then you go on to name a non playable character and you're weren't even ready to name specific characters in Resident Evil in your first post...

The only thing that has really changed is you. Hopefully you don't take too long to realize that.

Imagine disliking a character based on a 2 minute trailer....

I haven't changed at all - the depiction of female characters has. I do see agendas - even some of the people on your side here see agendas - they just don't care apparently. You're not going to gaslight me buddy.

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

Sure there's something wrong with me because I don't want to play, by your own definition, "woke and annoying, preachy, irritating, and sanctimonious" games. Do you people even hear yourselves?

No, there's something wrong with you because you have a stick up your ass over a video game's politics not reflecting your own back at you, leading to you babbling about things being 'woke', like a 55 year old who watches Fox News. It's a mixture of pathetic and sad.

 

[captainnapalm]

No, there's something wrong with you because you have a stick up your ass over a video game's politics not reflecting your own back at you, leading to you babbling about things being 'woke', like a 55 year old who watches Fox News. It's a mixture of pathetic and sad.

You called Spider-Man 2 woke too lol. Try and keep up with your own arguments.

 

[Sebastian1295]

I see more discussion about the main character being female in this thread than discussion about the game itself, the systems in place for said game, the graphics, what the story could possibly be etc etc. Putting a woman in a game dosen't make it woke and i'm tired of people acting like it is. We're starting to lose the soul purpose of what a woke game actually is when we start attacking a game like this and i wish people would stop doing so.

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

You called Spider-Man 2 woke too lol. Try and keep up with your own arguments.

Is that really the best you've got? I described things I DIDN'T care about. Get the difference, Einstein?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I haven't changed at all - the depiction of female characters has. I do see agendas - even some of the people on your side here see agendas - they just don't care apparently. You're not going to gaslight me buddy.

How many Sony main (lead) characters are lesbian? Why haven't they made a single main (lead) character who is gay?

Can you explain what the agenda is for these girlboss characters that you're referring to here and how they are different from girlboss characters for the last 20+ years of gaming? Please be specific.

 

[captainnapalm]

How many Sony main (lead) characters are lesbian? Why haven't they made a single main (lead) character who is gay?

Can you explain what the agenda is for these girlboss characters that you're referring to here and how they are different from girlboss characters for the last 20+ years of gaming? Please be specific.

I can see you're just very angry that people are criticizing PlayStation. I'm not going to run through the whole dissection of why these are bad characters when that's your whole motivation for the discussion. I would do that if you really cared to hear it.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Basic is good. Overcomplication is the worst. It was refreshingly basic and good. Compared to like ac shadows with needles mechanics.
It got repetitive because the open world was still a bit too big and had too many activities and some people feel the need to do everything. I finished the game in 30 hours, did side quests and activities until the moment it felt repetitive, stopped and played the story.

Meanwhile wc shadows is 10x bigger and got 100x more activities…. So if got is too big and repetitive, ac shadows is even more so.

Point being - linear games were good. Simple is good. Look at souls games (not Elden ring). It's very simple in fact. That's why it's good

Souls games might look linear, but those games are way more complex to do than stuffing a map with items and procedural quests. Souls games (before Elden ring) are all interconnected in clever ways and they are compelling you to explore their world that are actually way more interesting than those Ubisoft open-world clones.

 

[TrebleShot]

See above for examples of why Sony gets hate from the PC community.

Anger over games not releasing day 1 and copium that a major AAA release is going to hit PC in 3 months... when it absolutely won't.

The soonest a AAA original game has hit PC I believe was Spider-Man 2 and I think they sped that up due to Marvel and how much the licensing costs. When you think about it, they probably wouldn't even make that much money on the PC game due to licensing and steam royalties... It's pure profit at the end of the day, but it isn't nearly as much as you would think if the royalties are anywhere similar to the X-Men deal.

Normal gamers would just be happy to be getting games that used to not release at all on their platform.

I dont care if it comes or not or whether its 3 months, 2 years or 12 months, just going off recent releases I made an educated guess whether I am wrong or not who gives a shit. Oh wait...you do.

Chill man its video games, no one really cares that much. Ill get it on PS5 pro when it launches anyway.
Just think it will come not too long after on PC, the first is on there so they have a fan base for it and its free money.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I can see you're just very angry that people are criticizing PlayStation. I'm not going to run through the whole dissection of why these are bad characters when that's your whole motivation for the discussion. I would do that if you really cared to hear it.

I criticize sony all the time... Currently criticizing Sony because I feel like they don't respect their own brand enough, the VRR problem on PS5/Pro, their poor marketing strategy, how easily they make decisions that ultimately lead to distraction.

I asked you specific questions that should be easy to answer, why are you struggling?

How many lesbian main characters? To my knowledge, it's 2. Ellie and Aloy. If Sony REALLY had an agenda and really didn't care about risk, I think they'd make a main character who is gay, but they're clearly not doing that because they know it would struggle to sell. So much for their agenda I guess. More and more gamers are women and there are metrics that women will be more willing to play a game with a female character and that most men don't care either way and will select male and female characters in games.

I'd say 70 percent of Sony's main characters are male and 30% female. Maybe trending towards 60-40. And 2 out of like what 30-ish are lesbians? Again so much for an agenda. Of all the characters who are human and outside of an asian setting, they're all white except for Miles Morales, Chloe Frazier, and soon to be Jordan. Miles and Chloe both star in side games rather than main games.

Like, what you think is happening isn't happening and I'm not trying to gaslight you, you've already done that to yourself. That you would make such a big deal about every character who isn't a white male, while the rest of us are just excited for another Ghost game.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I dont care if it comes or not or whether its 3 months, 2 years or 12 months, just going off recent releases I made an educated guess whether I am wrong or not who gives a shit. Oh wait...you do.

Chill man its video games, no one really cares that much. Ill get it on PS5 pro when it launches anyway.
Just think it will come not too long after on PC, the first is on there so they have a fan base for it and its free money.

An educated guess?

I'll bet you ANYTHING that this doesn't come to PC in 3 months. I'll even give you tremendous odds.

 

[Lethal01]

More than one woman, but

My post was merely intended as a joke, and it once again showed me that people take it as a free pass to insult and get personal. Simply predictable.

Nothing wrong with personnaly insulting people who would seriously make that comment,

 

[seb85]

I will dust off my PS5 2 times this year , one in June for death stranding and one in October for yotei

 

[Sgt. Pinback]

An educated guess?

I'll bet you ANYTHING that this doesn't come to PC in 3 months. I'll even give you tremendous odds.

There's not a chance it's coming to PC in 3 months. Or even a year.

 

[near]

First, I think you should ask yourself why you care so much in the first place what gender a character is and if you didn't think the reverse was a bad thing why you would think this was a bad thing.

For decades we got the same character in video games. Generic white male with a history of military or police or something. All these characters were so similar to each other.

I think you're also conflating a lot of things and ignoring things as well.

Ghost of Tsushima came out and people hated Jin Sakai and thought he was boring and dull.

A lot of this is simply about differentiating products and gameplay. Notice that in the first Spider-Man game, it wasn't just MJ, it was also Miles pre-spider bite. These are used to break up the gameplay loop so that you don't get tired of them playing 20+ hour games. You bring up Wolverine, but you don't realize how boring it would be to play as Wolverine for 15 hours of straight melee and by building in Jean Gray, not only do you break up the gameplay loop, but you have the character ready to go for X-Men, which we already know they're working on after Wolverine. They literally do the same thing in God of War Ragnarok but it has nothing to do with diversity (people also complain about Atreus), but as I said, people continue to miss the point, it's about breaking up gameplay loops.

With your criticism you're ignoring games like God of War Ragnarok, Sackboy, Astro bot, Spider-Man Miles, Morales, Spider-Man 2, Ghost of Tsushima, TLOUP1 Remake, Rise of the Ronin, and coming up Death Stranding 2, Saros, Wolverine, and Lost Soul Aside, not to mention probably Venom. The vast majority of Sony's games are still driven by male characters.

It's also funny that no one complains about Stellar Blade.

So many of you are choosing to die on this really silly hill. At the end of the day I've never cared whether a main character or side character was male or female. It literally doesn't matter. It's a video game. Some of my favorite characters are male and some of my favorite characters are female.

The only thing I will say is that I think Insomniac missed a great opportunity to build a much better female playable character in Black Cat, but I can also understand a bit why they didn't use her. The wanted to build stealth only sections and she has super strength. If she gets caught it's not really game over and then it makes it a stealth optional section. I think there are arguments either way there, but I think she would have been a better choice rather than shoehorning in MJ who is just a regular person.

I'll also say that they didn't do enough to differentiate between Ratchet and Rivet and I get that they canonically the same person from different dimension, but they're still different dimensions meaning that they've had different experiences. They should have had some differences in their gameplay loop to make it more enjoyable to switch between them. This was another missed opportunity.

One concern I have is that Insomniac doesn't seem to take feedback well on their games. Instead they double down. Eventually it's going to come back to bite them.

People care about who they're spending 30–50 hours controlling, and if it starts to feel like character choices are being made for reasons other than narrative quality, that's not a small thing. There's definitely been a historical imbalance in representation, and addressing that isn't a threat in itself, representation and inclusion, when done thoughtfully, are valuable and can really enhance the medium.

That said, I think concerns about overcorrection and corporate influence on creativity are valid. When it feels like identity is being used more as a branding signal than a meaningful part of the story, it ends up doing a disservice to both the character and the communities it's supposed to represent.

The Ghost of Yotei situation is a good example. Ghost of Tsushima was widely praised for being respectful of Japanese culture and rooted in historical context. Jin Sakai, as a samurai, fit naturally within the era's social structure. So for Ghost of Yotei to pivot to a female lead, portrayed by a non-binary activist, without a clear narrative bridge or cultural grounding, it runs the risk of feeling like a statement rather than a story.

I get that sometimes these choices are about gameplay variety or creative experimentation, and that's totally valid. But if the balance tips too far into performative choices, you risk losing audience trust.

That said, if the game ends up being genuinely great, most players probably won't care about any of this. But the way it's presented still matters.

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

People care about who they're spending 30–50 hours controlling, and if it starts to feel like character choices are being made for reasons other than narrative quality, that's not a small thing. There's definitely been a historical imbalance in representation, and addressing that isn't a threat in itself, representation and inclusion, when done thoughtfully, are valuable and can really enhance the medium.

That said, I think concerns about overcorrection and corporate influence on creativity are valid. When it feels like identity is being used more as a branding signal than a meaningful part of the story, it ends up doing a disservice to both the character and the communities it's supposed to represent.

The Ghost of Yotei situation is a good example. Ghost of Tsushima was widely praised for being respectful of Japanese culture and rooted in historical context. Jin Sakai, as a samurai, fit naturally within the era's social structure. So for Ghost of Yotei to pivot to a female lead, portrayed by a non-binary activist, without a clear narrative bridge or cultural grounding, it runs the risk of feeling like a statement rather than a story.

I get that sometimes these choices are about gameplay variety or creative experimentation, and that's totally valid. But if the balance tips too far into performative choices, you risk losing audience trust.

That said, if the game ends up being genuinely great, most players probably won't care about any of this. But the way it's presented still matters.

How is yotei's protagonist not "fit naturally within the era's social structure". Also, how is yotei, again not "being respectful of Japanese culture and rooted in historical context".

 

[near]

How is yotei's protagonist not "fit naturally within the era's social structure". Also, how is yotei, again not "being respectful of Japanese culture and rooted in historical context".

I think you may have misread me a bit, I didn't say that Ghost of Yotei isn't respectful of Japanese culture or that the protagonist can't fit within the era's social structure.

What I said was that if the shift to a female lead, especially in a historical setting like this, isn't narratively grounded in a way that makes sense within the world and era, then it can feel more like a symbolic or marketing driven choice than one rooted in storytelling. That's not the same as saying it's inherently wrong or disrespectful, it's just about execution.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

People care about who they're spending 30–50 hours controlling, and if it starts to feel like character choices are being made for reasons other than narrative quality, that's not a small thing. There's definitely been a historical imbalance in representation, and addressing that isn't a threat in itself, representation and inclusion, when done thoughtfully, are valuable and can really enhance the medium.

That said, I think concerns about overcorrection and corporate influence on creativity are valid. When it feels like identity is being used more as a branding signal than a meaningful part of the story, it ends up doing a disservice to both the character and the communities it's supposed to represent.

The Ghost of Yotei situation is a good example. Ghost of Tsushima was widely praised for being respectful of Japanese culture and rooted in historical context. Jin Sakai, as a samurai, fit naturally within the era's social structure. So for Ghost of Yotei to pivot to a female lead, portrayed by a non-binary activist, without a clear narrative bridge or cultural grounding, it runs the risk of feeling like a statement rather than a story.

I get that sometimes these choices are about gameplay variety or creative experimentation, and that's totally valid. But if the balance tips too far into performative choices, you risk losing audience trust.

That said, if the game ends up being genuinely great, most players probably won't care about any of this. But the way it's presented still matters.

I want to respond pretty thoughtfully and respectfully here especially since I feel like you put some real effort into this.

But let me say this, you're shrouded by non important things if you can't see the absolute love letter to Japanese culture this game is and all the things inspired choices they've made here. And those who consume more Japanese media can see that and not get lost in the thoughts about western politics even with this being developed by a western studio.

You look at the level of detail these studios put in their games and it's honestly pretty sad to see how things get wilted down to people's politics.

You should watch a norse historian watching gameplay footage of God of War and Ragnarok and see how much detail Santa Monica put into those games and how they wove norse myth around their story and the changes and interpretations they made, but people want to hate on the game because of one bad gameplay section?

Do you know what other amazing game had really bad gameplay sections? Metal Gear Solid... the wolf section and the key card section are complete trash, both require back tracking too. Neither section has people hating on the game, though.

The level of detail in this trailer alone should have people excited about what could be the definitive japanese samurai game and franchise.

 

[GulfCoastZilla]

Well Serg has been on this forum for over a decade, so the reee thing won't directly apply. He's going too hard, but I think some people who raise an eyebrow at questioning of insert x category are doing it from a place of some legitimacy - there are pockets online that are genuinely hostile to the idea of anything that isn't a white man as a protag or sufficiently "based" enough as a premise, world, or concept, and they will often hide in amongst normal people asking reasonable questions.

Nothing I've seen from Beige indicates he's irrational.

To that point:

Let's not dance around it:

Even when looking at them alone, PlayStation has turbo charged the fem in their products. Aloy's only romantic interest after 2 full games is another woman: After decommissioning Nathan Drake and going with 2 female protags for both Lost Legacy and TLOU2, ND's new IP stars the most alt, queer coded of female characters perhaps in AAA gaming to this point. They added female protag to Ratchet, are about to add one (very stupidly) to Spider-Man after essentially making MJ a superhero herself. Even the Wolverine game could not avoid just having to have a playable female character in Jean Grey, and a very very "Current day" interpretation of the character therein barring a major overhaul. Returnal had a female protag too.

Ghost of Yotei is coming from a studio based in Bellevue fucking Washington, and the actress they've chosen is a non-binary self identifier that makes sure to be conspicuous in terms of appearance and social activism. There can only be so many explicated mission statements to push women (whether they identify specifically as that or not) and so much execution of those mission statements before it all does become conspicuous. Obvious even.

Games take time to make, like 5+ years at times. I feel like the US was in a place where "woke" or however you want to describe progressive views was good for business because that's what the country wanted at that time.

But now the country is back to being angry at women, gays and anyone that isn't "normal" etc.

But that doesn't happen over night, so we won't see the reduction of "woke" games until at least the launch of PS6.

 

[SJRB]

Man what is even going on in this thread right now

 

[Venom Snake]

This all is shaping up better than i expected.

I imagine, each of these bosses will rule over some piece of land, which will have to be "liberated" first, as is usually the case. Still, I'd like to be surprised, i'm counting on more creativity when it comes to quests and more benefits from exploration than in the first part.

Visually i would like a striking art style more than RT or other crap, give me vibrant colors, postcard views and lots of movement in the surroundings, imo that suits a game like this way better than forced realism.


My expectations have risen, don't fuck this up please.

 

[Toots]

Oh, of course! It was just a 'general observation', not an act of total hypocrisy. My mistake.

I'm not 'called out' by forum posters, friendo. I think you're a chucklehead and a time waster, and I'm replying in kind.

You are talking about an act of total hypocrisy when you tried to hide your wildly stupid judgmental take (he is a 13 year old andrew tate follower / He's gay) behind humor when it backfired on you...
Calm down with the "kid", "friendo" and other derogatory ways of calling people here. It doesn't make you look tough, it makes you look like a douche who's desesperately trying to appear tough because he actually is not.

 

[midnightAI]

woohoo, can't wait, looks awesome, will be GOTY for me

Man what is even going on in this thread right now

The usual, we can't enjoy games anymore apparently

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

Man what is even going on in this thread right now

People don't want to discuss the game. Personally I am pretty excited for it. The trailer looks great and the amount of hidden details and teases in the both trailers is pretty good.

 

[near]

I want to respond pretty thoughtfully and respectfully here especially since I feel like you put some real effort into this.

But let me say this, you're shrouded by non important things if you can't see the absolute love letter to Japanese culture this game is and all the things inspired choices they've made here. And those who consume more Japanese media can see that and not get lost in the thoughts about western politics even with this being developed by a western studio.

You look at the level of detail these studios put in their games and it's honestly pretty sad to see how things get wilted down to people's politics.

You should watch a norse historian watching gameplay footage of God of War and Ragnarok and see how much detail Santa Monica put into those games and how they wove norse myth around their story and the changes and interpretations they made, but people want to hate on the game because of one bad gameplay section?

Do you know what other amazing game had really bad gameplay sections? Metal Gear Solid... the wolf section and the key card section are complete trash, both require back tracking too. Neither section has people hating on the game, though.

The level of detail in this trailer alone should have people excited about what could be the definitive japanese samurai game and franchise.

My point isn't to reduce the game to politics or dismiss its artistry. And it's definitely not about rejecting diversity or change. It's about making sure the choices the studio makes are truly in service of the story or game design, not just the optics.

That said, you're totally right, the finer details matter, and if Ghost of Yotei nails its execution, there's every reason to be excited. Sucker Punch has proven they can deliver, and I don't doubt their ability to do so here, at least as a developer.

I think where my caution comes from is that we've seen the "girlboss" trope get overused across film, TV, and games in recent years, often in ways that feel driven more by quota or trend than character depth. So when I see a new project with similar broad strokes, I'm naturally a bit more wary.

But I'm hoping this is one of those cases where the end product earns every creative choice it makes. If so, I'll be the first to applaud it.

Man what is even going on in this thread right now

I got bored and pretended that the thread title was Ghost of YoDEI.