clarky
Gold Member
Destiny AI isn't that far off Halo imo.
What's more crazy to me is they haven't really advanced it since CE.
Marathon Alpha Impressions
- Thread starter coachmcguirk91
- Start date
What's more crazy to me is they haven't really advanced it since CE.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Looks like VR missions from MGS.Definitely agree on this. Does the current reveal really look like four years worth of effort? They have Destiny base animations. They would have had to animate abilities etc. but essentially most of the work is creating a map and assets. There is no way creating grimoires or codex takes that long.
Reminds me of the old source map SDK with more colours and textured environmental detail.
I'm more betting most of that time has gone into the economy, store and MTX which we are yet to see.
I'm not fussed if the game isn't for me, but this is a game for nobody. People will point to a few streamers and say look they like it after a few hours. The overall reception to this is significantly negative, the willingness of players to outright dismiss paying for/trying the game is high, and none of the streamers will be adding this as their main game or rotation without a huge raft of changes.
We can argue between ourselves as to why that is, but ultimately the problem here is why Bungie thought this type of game would land and be a success. The most generous receptions have been 'I'll give it a go'. If your kid loves cheese and you serve them turnip, don't be surprised if they leave the turnip uneaten.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Controllers, I get and have experienced a lot.
This is the first time I've seen such heavy aim assist with a mouse. (I haven't played destiny 2 so I don't know if it's the same there).
GymWolf
Member
I clearly remember d2 being trolled at launch because the ai was way too easy, and halo is famous for the challenging ai.
Maybe they fixed that after i stopped playing but d2 ai was nowhere near halo ai when i played it.
Halo ce ai is still better than 80% of fps and tps that come out today unfortunately.
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DryvBy
Member
I have no idea. I don't play these games anymore. If the game feels like a store, I'm out. COD feels like a weird store and I quit playing when they added Nicki Minaj to the roster.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
UT99 and the others of that era are fantastic and truly the golden-age. When developers provided you with a server client so you can host your own servers, that way they can't ever force shutdown to herd people into the "new version" they want to sell you. You know, the EA way.
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clarky
Gold Member
Agreed. Like I said its amazing to me that massive advancements have not been made in this area since.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Yep. Halo CE AI and FEAR were and still are GOAT tier. Killzone 2 was pretty good as well.
DryvBy
Member
I'd love for this current admin to make a consumer's rights bill for gaming where a multiplayer game has to be patched to at least have offline or direct IP connections if they shut a server down. There's so many good games you can't play anymore thanks to them shutting down servers.
A prime example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhawk_(2007_video_game)
clarky
Gold Member
FEAR, now there's a blast from the past. Awesome game.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I barely play COD anymore. More because of boredom and they also kept adjusting the maps to be ratmazy and making SMGs act like ARs.
But never the less, the COD app got so clusterfucky with a million boxes to choose, older games, current game etc... it became to unwieldly. Nothing will beat MW2 2009. Choose the option to boot to MP mode menu, and after a few taps you're already into a match. And as you said, all the e-store stuff where there's constant promotion of knickknacks to buy, pop up reminders etc.... forget it.
It's amazingly how fast and clean older COD menu screens were. It's like here's a title page and a list. SP Campaign, Multiplayer, Options. Then you get in MP and there's a handful of choices like Find Game, Class Set Up, Stats, Options. That was kind of it.
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GymWolf
Member
I don't know if they are still the best today but probably up there.
I would put condemned 1 in that list, that game was doing what the fake tlou1 trailer promised in terms of ai...
MiguelItUp
Member
They really have and that's very true.
That as well. I feel like the gaming space has become so incredibly negative over the past few years and it's honestly pretty disappointing. Why is that? I'm not sure, but you can see it in almost any thread about any game in some way, shape, or form.
Yup.
Honestly, that's something I've thought about for a long while. Because I've sworn before Covid it wasn't like that. I just noticed an almost "social shift" in social media across various hobbies and topics. I tend to swarm music and video games as they're some of my favorite things, and I noticed a huge spike in negativity in both. I'll also admit that at one point during/after Covid was when I was hit with a, "do I even enjoy gaming anymore?" moment for the first time. The reality is that I do, but because I wasn't seeing anything that was extremely exciting and interesting to me I felt like gaming just wasn't for me anymore. That of course subsided and things got better with time.
Yeah, same. I've seen multiple posters here practically shit on every single thing that's previewed and released. Be it on their preferred platform, or not. It's just weird to me to love something like games, but rather than look for things that excite you, just be negative towards almost everything. There's something out there for everyone, you just gotta look as it may not all be AAA.
I'm not surprised that some people are being overly harsh on Marathon as a result, there's a lot of reasons for this. I think the realistic perspective right now is that it lingers around the average/okay area. At least that's the majority. The extremely positive and negative sides are both minorities it seems.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
For mouse CoD doesn't have any assist even as option.
Men_in_Boxes
Banned
Every time I see Marathon PvE I think of how fun it used to be to watch those drop ships land on the 2nd level of Combat Evolved. You'd throw sticky grenades up there as the doors opened. It had a fun, cinematic, repeatable feel to it. It looked right and it offered a bunch of fun sandbox ways to engage with it.
Non of the PvE in Marathon comes close to that imo. 25 years later and it's significantly worse...
clarky
Gold Member
They need to ramp it up from what I've seen. A drop ship comes in and drops like 3 enemies? What the fuck is that? Drop like a full squad with different types of grunts etc. Proper pin you in somewhere, backs against the wall type shit.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I think some of the negativity is that gamers have just had it.
If you look at a lot of the negative points people bring up, it often lumps into a few points:
- MTX nickel and diming
- Politics, including any employees openly ragging back against gamers from social media account about topic 123
- Really buggy needing a patch (esp important for MP games with bad net code)
- Boring
- Every once in a while, game prices go up and console prices jumped big too
So add it up, and there's going to be push back. In general, the things I listed werent much of a thing if you go back in time, but seemed to really amp up the past 5 or so years.
But funny how just about every company seems to have lots of time and resources getting that e-store up and running on day one taking gamers mtx money no problem!
And to top it off, getting a refund is still a hassle going through CSR and that assumes they even approve it. And any disc gamers are out of luck right off the bat. In other industries you dont get these kind of negative points and just about everything can be refunded if they dont like it. So I think in general, gamers just expect more quality and less lectures for their dollar. And for something like media, they got creative liberty to make anything cool they want. But instead can often try copying what other companies are doing or make their own crappy game without gamer feedback. Media companies have creative freedom and 1000x more opportunity for gamer feedback making their game from conception to launch to post launch. A company making pot and pans doesnt have that liberty. And if the product sucks, someone can return it no questions asked for a refund.
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Men_in_Boxes
Banned
Exactly!
And also, the drop ships in Marathon move at 10x speed which makes it look like a cheap Benny Hill scene.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
This should have been an episode of Love, Death & Robots, not a game.
Killjoy-NL
Member
So basically "things don't go my way"(apart from buggy releases).
HeisenbergFX4
Member
No people would lose their minds if it was like this game
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Ya, that doesnt even make sense. Mouse gamers already have pinpoint control vs gamers aiming with analog sticks. They shouldnt need aiming boosts.
clarky
Gold Member
You can turn it off though right? Weird to me that it would be on by default.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
No idea if it can be turned off in this game off the mouse as I have it on the Playstation
But you know most wont turn it off if its a laser "aimbot" like some of the videos thats coming out
clarky
Gold Member
Feedback about the "feature" seems really negative, doesn't affect me as a controller player mainly but I don't see why it would be included in the first place.
realcool
Member
Unpenalized, infinite revives (downed) and resurrections (out).
Killjoy-NL
Member
Isn't Hunt Showdown like that as well?
Edit:
Nvm forgot that there can be penalties in Hunt through burning.
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Hari Seldon
Member
Nah if the aimbot is too crazy for controller players you need to aimbot the mouse to compensate.
realcool
Member
From what I remember, and it's been a while, if a downed player is revived, that player loses a health bar. An additional mechanic allows a player to burn a downed opponent's body to fully eliminate them from the battlefield.
clarky
Gold Member
Thats not even a standard feature in BR's.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
They're not relegated to that, they're specifically designed that way to facilitate PvP fights. That implies that Hunt devs just couldn't think of anything better or more. Each enemy type in Hunt has a specific way it can screw you in PvP fights for that reason. Hives will poison you and disable healing, dogs will cause bleed and essentially make you a loud and stationary target and so on.
I feel like you're misunderstanding the core loop a bit here if Hunt's AI even factors in other than a way to track, trick or get tricked in PvP fights. The bosses exist to bait a server fight and increase the tension and chance of that by forcing a team to essentially stand still and be loud, again to facilitate more PvP. Nobody plays it FOR the vE element.
Killjoy-NL
Member
PvE might as well be removed from the game completely in Hunt, outside of the targets.
You just run up to any enemy and ohk them with an axe, 2 hits for those bulky enemies with wires. Those hives are easy to avoid/kill as well.
Takes practically no skill.
And nobody really cares about the soundtraps, like the dogs, birds or cows. They mostly get killed out of boredom because you run past them anyway.
The entire gameplay loop in Hunt is rush to the targets, cheese them (braindead EZ tactics to kill them) and maybe kill an enemy team or two if you encounter them, which doesn't even happen every match.
Edit:
I do like Hunt, but in regards to PvE it's a complete joke.
AI of enemies is almost non-existent as well. Like the most basic AI there can be.
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Men_in_Boxes
Banned
That's like saying the ice cream parlor that plays EDM music at 100 decibels is good because no one goes to the ice cream parlor FOR the annoying music.
You can facilitate more interesting PvP engagments using AI that has more interesting behavior. The AI in Hunt basically just stands still (basic pathing) until you trigger them and then you're given two choices - run away or DPS them down.
The reason the AI in Marathon (and Hunt) is so disappointing is because we have 30 years of SP games that illustrate how to facilitate engagment in more interesting ways.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
This actually sounds awesome and now I want ice cream.
MDSLKTR
Member
Outside of memes_in_boxes, you and James were the only ones on the Internet cheering for Concord. We told ya back then,.and we're telling you again.
Killjoy-NL
Member
You told us what?Outside of memes_in_boxes, you and James were the only ones on the Internet cheering for Concord. We told ya back then,.and we're telling you again.
Everybody knew the game was gonna bomb, incl me.
But some of you lack reading comprehension at even primary school level.
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Wimbledon
Member
I think it would be cool if the facilities that were going to were still functioning like some visual elements to show that. Or like robots still doing there duties or like some A.i going through rampancy below because it doesn't want you there. Cause i like the Vibe this vid has almost like a horror vibe to it, and i think more PvE elements would definitely enhance that.
EDIT: Or like the rampant A.I at the facility hacks one of those robots and marks you and looks for your specifically on the map. Or like treasure rooms where like you find a secret room and the A.I locks you in the room traps etc and you have to solve a puzzle or escape and then get the rare loot. Or somehow hack a UESC SOS signal thing to call for major back up and maybe they drop boss type mech that you can use to keep enemy runners at bay while they fight that thing and hopefully get wiped while you sneak away. Or work with that enemy A.I , so like if runners are somewhere where there not supposed to be , this A.I will work with your runner team if your teams goes kill that enemy team...and maybe that enemy A.I backstabs you cause it wants all the runners dead.
Like stuff like that i think would absolutely elevate the experience.
But overall i love what im seeing. Hopefully the feedback they are getting has people talking about adding more PvE elements to these areas.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
Guardian Monkey
Member
PeteBull
Member
Personally i prefer singleplayer, or oldschool multiplayer, no moba, battle royale, none of that shit, if marathon launches to tens of milions of players so be it, but im betting against it
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Wimbledon
Member
Yeah im interested how im going to react to losing good gear. Cause i've been pissed at Dark souls HAVE YET TO BEAT THOSE games or Sekiro. I feel like you gotta be a masochist to really enjoy that genre of game....specifically this particular genre with Extraction where you literally lose everything.
Thankfully they have the contract system you can get some low tier to go back and fight if you just lose everything. But i do think a lot of people will be turned off by that.
Fake
Member
So, aim bot is now an attribute?
Can't wait for the next Souls game have this one. /s
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Watching videos more, I can see why aim assist is so big.
You'll notice gamers being able to accurately shoot and kill people/AI bots no problem from AR long range.
Or, the guns are designed to be super accurate from distance like they are all semi-auto or FAL like COD, but they're all full auto.
You'll notice gamers being able to accurately shoot and kill people/AI bots no problem from AR long range.
Or, the guns are designed to be super accurate from distance like they are all semi-auto or FAL like COD, but they're all full auto.
PSYGN
Member
Insta turnoff
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
His final negative
How many people playing the Alpha here feel the same?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Not surprised at people saying Marathon is boring.
Marathon and Tarkov are both extraction shooters. Watching videos of both games, Tarkov is way more interesting and creepy sometimes. Tarkov's atmosphere makes the game seem more interesting and desperate like you're a survivor in a broken world. There's dark rooms etc....
Marathon seems sterile and bright with neon coloured sci fi characters in a sharp and clean environment. There's no sense of danger.
No prox chat either with other teams. So how often are people going to work together or trade items or whatever? Probably zero chance. If you cant communicate, might as well shoot first killing anything that moves and try to win as a 3 man team.
Bungie is trying for mass appeal by trying to make the game colourful and safe for casuals in an extraction mode game that is niche among shooter modes.
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Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Came to post this, and yeah. The outside environment design is a head scratcher.
They need to up this. Bungie can design some amazing levels and encounters. They need to get their raid team on this.
Marathon, if Bungie addresses the feedback they're getting right now, will be a very good game.
The good news for them is there seem to be some very clear, very strong signals from that feedback, so it shouldn't be a mystery what they need to address.
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