Lords of the Fallen Developer CI Games Boss Claims He Has Data That Proves “‘Modern Audience’ Is A False Myth”

Truth Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 
I don't know why, but as a conservative I find highly annoying this catering towards a conservative audience. It's like the wokes but backwards and I don't like it. The game got me interested as a Soul Reaver fanboy, and I've heard is pretty good in PS5Pro now. So I'll give it a chance when I end with my pile of shame.

PS: my apologies to anyone who read the original message. Clearly last night I didn't proof read.
 
Last edited:
I think everybody has known this for ages but were silenced through sect like bullying and could do nothing about it out of fear of losing their job or having their life ruined from getting an -ist stamp on their head.

In the end, if your target audience is small then your sales numbers will be small too, and if your target audience is big then your sales numbers will be big too. Choose wisely.
 
Look I'm not some kinda bigot. I support all forms of degeneracy. If cutting off your penis makes you happy go for it!

But let's not pretend that transsexuals are a very large group or that most people lay awake at night thinking about pronouns.
 
For some companies this knowledge comes too late. Ubisoft used to steadfastly resist woke nonsense until they finally capitulated big time. Next thing you know they're making a AAA game Star Wars game starring a hilariously ugly lesbian that no one buys and before long you're selling off your properties to China. That game would have been a big hit for them as little as 10 years ago.
 
Last edited:
Jigsaah said:
What exactly is the "modern audience"? Is that code for woke?
Click to expand...
its code for woke or/and for women, in movie terms think terminator2 vs terminator 6, in games terms think saints row 1/2/3/4 vs the reboot that killed the series.DA:O vs DA:V.
Examples of failed "modern audience" aka woke/for women games are everywhere- it usually contains 0 or reduced brutality/gore, deluded feminists viewpoints including "women and men are the same/can do things just as good and preaching about diversity of human body/skin colots/sexual orientations, on top those games have terrible colour pallete, usually some kind if purplish/happy children fairytale, on top u cant do evil/nasty shit in those games, coz its considered toxic masculinity, ofc if protag is female she has to be masculine/ugly as a sin and/or old too- basically unfuckable unless u are hobosexual(u so broke u have to fuck ugly chick so she lets u stay in her crib :P ).
 
Whoever works, interacts and lives in reality and not only in an echo chamber, has realised a long time ago that the people who are meant by "modern audience" are just a very loud, outspoken and obnoxious minority. They have been influential for a short time, but they pushed their agenda too hard and too fast and because of that it has become very obvious.
 
Last edited:
GymWolf said:
Dude is doubling hard on that chud pandering.

Imagine miyazaki doing this to publicize elden ring :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

Just let your next game speak for itself and next time don't open a poll post launch for stuff that you should know to begin with, you just look desperate.
Click to expand...
I disagree with it making him look desperate. We are bombarded with bullshit about dei and how top scars in games are great. Absolutely nothing wrong with an opposing voice. It will hopefully empower other devs too scared of the blowback to speak up to the crazies.
 
recursive said:
I disagree with it making him look desperate. We are bombarded with bullshit about dei and how top scars in games are great. Absolutely nothing wrong with an opposing voice. It will hopefully empower other devs too scared of the blowback to speak up to the crazies.
Click to expand...
Maybe despearate was a strong word.
 
FalsettoVibe said:
Oh, so you think that there aren't groups? There's exists another gaming site that is almost the polar opposite of this one that debunks that logic.
Click to expand...
Bernardougf said:
Its very easy to spot this pattern because it exists since forever ... once your "side" start to loose .. time to 1 - make the discussions "bad" ... 2 - make the other side look as bad as you or worse
Click to expand...
Welp... can't say I'm surprised.
 
MMaRsu said:
You dont know me, nor do you know my politics. Fuck off clown ass

And yes a specific group, that buys games because the women have big tittays.

The pathetic gooners and extreme nutters.

A game isnt magically gonna be better because you put some goon material in there.

A game isnt magically gonna be better because you changed a few words.

Lords of the Fallen was always a mediocre title, but theyve been putting themselves in the spotlight with this nonsense.

Its exactly like the leftwing nutters who cater to a specific group. Its not going to make your game better.

Or do you want to pretend that they arent trying to cater to this specific group?
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone actually believes that surface level changes magically make a game good, it's at best going to be less shit.

This one dev ran a few polls, and reverted to male/female. It's on the lowest spectrum of pandering, and that it even is considered pandering to the other side does what? Give the right-wing male/female sex, which every left wing dev had in their character creators 10 years ago.

Lords of the Fallen isn't a great game, but they did their attempt at a No Man's Sky overhaul to improve the game fundamentally. They made a pile of changes to the game: overhauled the combat and movement controls, the umbral lamp to help level navigation, re-tuned boss fight encounters, various AI improvements, shared progression co-op and the friend pass letting a friend join your game for free.

They didn't make a gooner game, they just made a better game, even if it's no Elden Ring.
 
Last edited:
I played the game at launch and really enjoyed it, so I can only imagine how it is now with the 2.0 changes.

I hate the overt virtue signaling nonsense on either side of the aisle, but the the game's industry is mostly controlled by one side of that aisle/think, so while I agree he's pandering….I also agree with the sentiment that it's nice to see, even if he's an imperfect messenger, someone bucking the "establishment".

And also…personally…I think it's fucking retarded we have to debate and argue that it's considered "pandering" to have the choices be Male/Female - that THAT discussion is a fuckin' heated one?!? Jesussss Maurice Christ…

But, whatever. I'll go yell at clouds I suppose.

EDIT: the debate on sex as the preferred designation for body choice being deemed dumb was my own experience in Reddit thread a couple weeks back. A couple people dared speak up against the people bashing them for doing the poll/changing it and got called the typical - Nazi, Bigot etc
 
Last edited:
mckmas8808 said:
You're not wrong. You're actually correct here. But this developer seems to not want to have that conversation.
Click to expand...
What makes you think that?

They've acknowledged their game's shortcomings and have worked to fix them since launch. The gender discourse is just a bullet point among many.

MMaRsu said:
Changing a few words and giving women better looking bodies aint gonna make the game better tho.
Click to expand...
It's not gonna make the game worse either. Especially when they've shown plenty of effort to improve the actual gameplay as it is.

The point of these changes is to push against the narrative that you MUST comply with progressive politics. It's ridiculous that anyone should have to make that point but that's where we are.
 
GymWolf said:
Maybe despearate was a strong word.
Click to expand...
I want all devs to be desperate to sell their product, that makes their product much better vs liberal cucks who pretend to not give a damn about their game's sales, and i want every dev to pander to his customers, aka us,gamers, not to woke journos who never buy games, nor coloured hair minority who doesnt buy games either.
Its natural and optimal business practice to make customers of ur product happy :)
e8fd264be2e8287be60b8b0bf66b8be09ad5d8df.gif
 
ReasonBeing said:
Idk, while I don't want to strawman their position as I don't know what "data" they are referring to, I feel many conflate a game "failing" due to being a poorly made game with "failing" due to the perceived inclusion of woke elements. I can only speak for myself, but I'm tired of the "paint by the number" approach to game development. These projects end up bland, derivative, and soulless.

For example, Vailguard reportedly has bad writing, shallow mechanics, and an art style that differs greatly from previous entries (among other issues). Take out the "woke" elements, and I still think you have a game that misses the mark for Dragon Age fans, much less a gamer who isn't invested in the series.

Of course some will avoid a game that offers type A or type B body types or features a black strong female lead, but I don't imagine it would effect the sales to a large degree if the game was sufficiently awesome. I will concede that I believe that such inclusions does nothing to increase sales, but I blame most of the issues with AAA development on risk aversion.

But hey, I could be wrong.
Click to expand...
I don't think the two are unrelated. I think a lot of the developers who are pushing that message are mediocre at best, who wouldn't survive a meritocracy. So they push their shit messages into games AND they are bad at making games.
 
GymWolf said:
Dude is doubling hard on that chud pandering.

Imagine miyazaki doing this to publicize elden ring :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

Just let your next game speak for itself and next time don't open a poll post launch for stuff that you should know to begin with, you just look desperate.
Click to expand...
and that is bad thing how???
 
Should be obvious not to cater to those disgusting insane folks. But the CEO was the one that catered to them in the first place. It's still good that he realize his mistake and removed those elements while also making his game better. But he shouldn't have to try this hard to let us know, just the first news is enough but this is like the 3rd or 4th time he's putting this out. Just focus on your second game and make it great and without any nasty elements dude.
 
Still waiting for a big budget dev to embrace this publicly from preproduction to launch. Lords of the Fallen is a good ice breaker. I think there will be a huge market for it. I know I'd be likely to vote with my wallet for a project that is willing to risk it all for these principals. I'm more interested the gender role and racial stereotype aspects of this, rather than oversized tits and ass. I'd just like to get back to not having to virtue signal with race swaps and casting a chick as a breaching and hand to hand combat specialist. Picked up Need for Speed Heat a couple weeks ago and you have to pick a preconstructed driver avatar. Roughly 15 people to choose from, and only one person who could even marginally be considered a white male. If you're a mixed-race nonwhite woman you're feasting in character selection screens right now. How many people with those characteristics actually play these types of games remains to be seen. I wouldn't predict it to be a very large percentage though.
 
MMaRsu said:
It sure is.
Click to expand...
I saw older streamers "I don't want to mention their names", and video game publishers "again I don't want to mention their names cause I like their games so much and respect them" treated their opinions badly like associating their opinions with their age and that they no longer belong to that audience. That's so horrible to say something like that to your older fans, these people are destructive and need to be kicked.
 
Last edited:
MMaRsu said:
I just told you what I think bro. Im sick of all these retarded assumptions and pretending this dev didnt try to cater to a certain demographic, just like other devs pander to another certain demographic.

Whats wrong with coming out and saying it?

Ofcourse its awesome that a dev is putting in work to make his game better.

Changing a few words and giving women better looking bodies aint gonna make the game better tho.
Click to expand...
I am not the biggest fan of the game, but the developers overhauled the whole thing substantially from my understanding. Combat, character progression, enemies, etc….

So I find your vehement attack here quite curious. Not that I particularly like these sorts of games with Elden Ring being sole exception.
 
Clear said:
Has Miyazaki ever spoken about altering his titles to accommodate the "modern audience" ?

I really do not understand your hostility?

Look, its pretty simple. When he ran that poll about A-B body types versus Male-Female, he faced an immediate boycott on Reddit and the usual places to try and hurt a game that was being actively developed and improved post launch.

Well guess what, it got relaunched and is apparently doing well. To know how well, we'd have to see accurate sales figures tracking over the period from initial launch to now. But if that corresponds inversely with blow-back from supporters of the "modern audience" ethos, then he has actual hard data to back up the supposition.

Now, he could share those numbers, so we can see the degree of correlation, but that would require disclosing proprietary sales data.

Its really that simple.
Click to expand...

How negative the online reaction to the poll / Marek Tyminski's politics are versus how well the game is selling after the update isn't hard data at all.

The 2.0 update is doing a lot more than just changing the body type stuff. It's essentially a complete relaunch with massive changes to the gameplay:



So that's going to obfuscate the myriad of reasons why people are picking up the game. Only detailed post-marketing research would reveal that, and if Marek has that data then great, but tenuously connecting online happenings and Twitter polls with the performance of the game is not going to show anything meaningful.

Let's also not forget that the game went on sale at the same time as the update released giving people a reason to try it. It can just as likely be a perfect storm of good marketing and sales timing that caused the sales bump. That trailer very solidly presents the improvements made and the word of mouth about how much better the gameplay is has been strong.
 
Killer8 said:
How negative the online reaction to the poll / Marek Tyminski's politics are versus how well the game is selling after the update isn't hard data at all.

The 2.0 update is doing a lot more than just changing the body type stuff. It's essentially a complete relaunch with massive changes to the gameplay:



So that's going to obfuscate the myriad of reasons why people are picking up the game. Only detailed post-marketing research would reveal that, and if Marek has that data then great, but tenuously connecting online happenings and Twitter polls with the performance of the game is not going to show anything meaningful.

Let's also not forget that the game went on sale at the same time as the update released giving people a reason to try it. It can just as likely be a perfect storm of good marketing and sales timing that caused the sales bump. That trailer very solidly presents the improvements made and the word of mouth about how much better the gameplay is has been strong.
Click to expand...

I don't think most are under the impression that introducing male/female is the main cause for improved sales. That's not even the point in this post.

The dev is saying the modern audience (i.e. audiences require/should be given a progressive lens now) is a myth. Players will still purchase and enjoy the game you made if it's good. No progressive pandering necessary. The fact that the game is selling doesn't prove that male/female will save your game (which on it's own it shouldn't). It at the very least shows that male/female won't kill your games. As ridiculous as it is, this is only significant because of how much progressivism has been forced into culture.

It's also worth noting that while male/female may not be a determining factor, there's reason to believe it contributes to the game's positive reception. The Twitter poll for example had over 49k votes, 88% of which were for the gender option to be changed. Whether a large part of that percentage had bought the game already or not, that's going to improve word of mouth.
 
Last edited:
stickkidsam said:
What makes you think that?

They've acknowledged their game's shortcomings and have worked to fix them since launch. The gender discourse is just a bullet point among many.
Click to expand...

Because of how he's communicating with his audience. The idea that he's positioning the conversation as "hey devs we don't HAVE to make games like that. Screw DEI or whatever" non-sense is silly.

We all know nobody has to do anything in gaming. Devs are choosing to make some of their games a certain way. Some have sold well, whereas others have flopped.
 
stickkidsam said:
It's also worth noting that while male/female may not be a determining factor, there's reason to believe it contributes to the game's positive reception. The Twitter poll for example had over 49k votes, 88% of which were for the gender option to be changed. Whether a large part of that percentage had bought the game already or not, that's going to improve word of mouth.
Click to expand...
And yet the dev actively chose to originally ship with Type A / Type B...

i think not coincidence GIF
 
We all do, it's self evident lol... But to be more realistic, actual "modern audience" is not the one they've been appealing to, it exists but not in the sense we've been taught.

BTW off topic: I just download it from Game Pass to see how it runs and it runs WAY better than I expected, did the game performance got fixed that much? And even if I put res scaling to 100% it looks like it will never stop shimmering.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Because of how he's communicating with his audience. The idea that he's positioning the conversation as "hey devs we don't HAVE to make games like that. Screw DEI or whatever" non-sense is silly.

We all know nobody has to do anything in gaming. Devs are choosing to make some of their games a certain way. Some have sold well, whereas others have flopped.
Click to expand...
If that was all CI Game's did then sure, I'd agree. They've overhauled their game though and that's what they show off in their marketing. They ARE having that conversation about the quality of their game. What's silly is that you'd claim otherwise just because of this tweet.

It's fair to point out that making games catering to progressive politics isn't going to get you anywhere. Especially when you consider that dissenting voices (even among devs) have been met with every -ism under the sun. There's a wider context that this tweet illuminates.

If these progressive idea are not improving the game, and most players don't want them, why are they there? In CI Game's case, it would seem it was out of conforming to industry trends. So what about other studios?

Cyberpunkd said:
And yet the dev actively chose to originally ship with Type A / Type B...

i think not coincidence GIF
Click to expand...
better late than never bltn GIF by NBC
 
stickkidsam said:
If that was all CI Game's did then sure, I'd agree. They've overhauled their game though and that's what they show off in their marketing. They ARE having that conversation about the quality of their game. What's silly is that you'd claim otherwise just because of this tweet.

It's fair to point out that making games catering to progressive politics isn't going to get you anywhere. Especially when you consider that dissenting voices (even among devs) have been met with every -ism under the sun. There's a wider context that this tweet illuminates.

If these progressive idea are not improving the game, and most players don't want them, why are they there? In CI Game's case, it would seem it was out of conforming to industry trends. So what about other studios?


better late than never bltn GIF by NBC
Click to expand...

So what if it was them improving the quality of the game that lead to good sales? What if it was that, more than them changing to Male\Female? To me, it feels like the focus is off. These tweets are just pandering to me. Him and his team made a good game. Why stoop to this level of slop conversation?
 
mckmas8808 said:
So what if it was them improving the quality of the game that lead to good sales? What if it was that, more than them changing to Male\Female? To me, it feels like the focus is off. These tweets are just pandering to me. Him and his team made a good game. Why stoop to this level of slop conversation?
Click to expand...
I agree with your sentiment- but these conversations we are having about the game; the "controversial" nature of it, CI Games bucking the liberal groupthink (mind you in the safest time to do so) is marketing 101….this is getting the game to re stick into some slice of the gaming populace's mindshare.

His focus on those things, him making those comments kicking up the dust of marketing his nearly 2 year old game.

It's just the game
 
Last edited:
mckmas8808 said:
So what if it was them improving the quality of the game that lead to good sales? What if it was that, more than them changing to Male\Female? To me, it feels like the focus is off. These tweets are just pandering to me. Him and his team made a good game. Why stoop to this level of slop conversation?
Click to expand...
When did anybody say that improving the game didn't lead to good sales or that it wasn't the main factor? How can you say the focus is off when they've literally done what you want? They fixed their game.

Whether it's marketing or a sincere effort to shed light, this "slop conversation" is relevant to not just their game, but culture as a whole. Their changes were a result of polling, and that polling conflicts with a narrative that affects games. We have companies like Sweet Baby who used scare tactics to push progressive ideas into games. This is a response to that.
 
WellSheet said:
I agree with your sentiment- but these conversations we are having about the game; the "controversial" nature of it, CI Games bucking the liberal groupthink (mind you in the safest time to do so) is marketing 101….this is getting the game to re stick into some slice of the gaming populace's mindshare.

His focus on those things, him making those comments kicking up the dust of marketing his nearly 2 year old game.

It's just the game
Click to expand...

100% truth here!

stickkidsam said:
When did anybody say that improving the game didn't lead to good sales or that it wasn't the main factor? How can you say the focus is off when they've literally done what you want? They fixed their game.

Whether it's marketing or a sincere effort to shed light, this "slop conversation" is relevant to not just their game, but culture as a whole. Their changes were a result of polling, and that polling conflicts with a narrative that affects games. We have companies like Sweet Baby who used scare tactics to push progressive ideas into games. This is a response to that.
Click to expand...

WellSheet WellSheet said it best above. It's just marketing. I'm not hating on him. Do what you gotta do to sell the game and yourself (His Point of View of content creation), but I just wanted to state that it is just marketing (or Pandering....depending on your POV).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Lords of the Fallen CEO takes stand against idea of "modern audience".
Social Opinion Drama  2
67
1K
Trekinspace88 replied
'Jump' for joy - Lords of the Fallen 2.0 is nearly here
2
59
5K
Arachnid replied
CI Games CEO: Lords of The Fallen sale shattered expectations after swapping Type A/B body type to Male/Female
2
59
3K
The Cockatrice replied
Lords of The Fallen 2.0 Announced - Full seamless co-op
2 3 4 5
203
11K
envyzeal replied
Lords of The Fallen 2 is ignoring DEI and political agendas, developer confirms: "Goal is to maximize Player Enjoyment"
News Game Dev  2 3 4
168
11K
laynelane replied
Top Bottom