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[Killjoy-NL]

The terms has its origins in Gamergate and it was tied to a particularly hateful way of looking at people who enjoy gaming. The premise, though, as we see it today goes something like this: gamers are predominantly made up men/boys (some throw white and straight in there too). This is not okay. Games have traditionally been made for and marketed to this demographic. This is bad. In order to bring in more people to buy and play games, marketing and games have to represent everyone who is not part of the traditional demographic. This potential broader audience is the "modern audience" who won't be interested in games unless they're represented, included, etc. - basically, DEI.

It's this idea that if DEI is put into games, it will attract all those people who don't game - they'll see themselves in a video game and will want to play that game. That's the mythical modern audience as it's defined today, imo. Definitely not those nasty gamers who have been the core of this industry since its inception.

Essentially, it's a concept steeped in extreme idealogy and its basic premise is and always has been inaccurate too. Gamers are a diverse group and games have always been diverse too. Some developers have chosen to alientate their core audience because they really believe they're being progressive and sales will be made up by new customers However, as it turns out. changing games to chase this imaginary audience is not profitable or sustainable. That's the point being made by Tyminski in the OP.

Sorry, may be a bit defensive. It is a woke term though. Corpo speak and it just shows up a lot in mockery and is often in quotations. Shows in in marketing for a lot of games. Shows up in quotations a lot when our youtubers mock games. Truth is it doesn't exist.

The idea is there is some large audience of woke people who would game if only gaming itself was more woke, and that developers should design their games around this modern audience rather than their traditional audience in order to maximize profit. Time and again it has proven to not exist. People that just want the games to be woke like to pretend it exists in order to trick large publishers and devs who drink a similar type of cool-aid to make them in the first place. When the games come out they go broke but also wokies get a cool new game to tout and take from normal gamers via opportunity costs.

Thanks for clearing that up.

If it's like that, then yeah, "modern audiences" is retarded.

 

[Ozriel]

As expected, I see the modern audience is upset by this notion.

As I said, his shtick is clearly working on the gullible. Thoroughly unsurprised to see you there

 

[PeteBull]

Yeah, but I don't even get who you mean by "we" when saying "we didn't invent that shit".

I think I was still a lurker at the time of GG and never even bothered really paying attention to it, because I thought it was some cyber-battle between nerds.

I always took 'modern audiences' as the younger generation, as in the ones that grew up with internet and online gaming, rather than the older millenials and gen X, who prefer old skool/retro gaming.

Nope bro, younger males, aka target audience for all those f2p multiplayer games decided to not fuck with concord, which was made for "modern audience", aka cucks, feminists, wokeists and other degenerates who dont buy/play games.
If Concord's target wasnt "modern audience" but actual young males we wouldnt have character roster looking like this bunch of homo-whatever loosers:

U were young back in the days so u can easily guess what teenage boys/young men wanna play/look at- muscular manly men and young hot sexy af women, and we got none of that here
And for contrast lets look how successful multiplayer game's roster looks like:

or

Basically if u want males to enjoy ur game they either go for ultra masculine men or sexy af hot women which is strong opposite to what "modern audience" games stand for, hence they keep failing.

Hell, we know even what next such a "modern audience" game gonna be, and we can easily predict it flopping hard, just based on its roster:

 

[yogaflame]

LOF CEO is a good man. KCD2 developer for me, is coward and bended his knees for good reviews from western journalist.

 

[DeepEnigma]

In before the circle jerk

All over your face?

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Nope bro, younger males, aka target audience for all those f2p multiplayer games decided to not fuck with concord, which was made for "modern audience", aka cucks, feminists, wokeists and other degenerates who dont buy/play games.
If Concord's target wasnt "modern audience" but actual young males we wouldnt have character roster looking like this bunch of homo-whatever loosers:

U were young back in the days so u can easily guess what teenage boys/young men wanna play/look at- muscular manly men and young hot sexy af women, and we got none of that here
And for contrast lets look how successful multiplayer game's roster looks like:

or

Basically if u want males to enjoy ur game they either go for ultra masculine men or sexy af hot women which is strong opposite to what "modern audience" games stand for, hence they keep failing.

Hell, we know even what next such a "modern audience" game gonna be, and we can easily predict it flopping hard, just based on its roster:

What are you on about? Not even sure what Concord has to do with it?

Besides, back in 2014 I was 30-31, so too old to get worked up over non-issues.
Maybe that's why I never understood what the big deal was?

 

[Madserb2023]

The modern audience exists in the same way vegans exist but they don't go to a steakhouse. Come the Switch 2 launch, the queue outside the local game store is going to resemble your typical Warhammer convention. White, male and straight. The problem is that people who work in the games industry just don't like the fact that the people who play games don't look like them. That's fine. Vegans at least don't work in an abottoir.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Nope bro, younger males, aka target audience for all those f2p multiplayer games decided to not fuck with concord, which was made for "modern audience", aka cucks, feminists, wokeists and other degenerates who dont buy/play games.
If Concord's target wasnt "modern audience" but actual young males we wouldnt have character roster looking like this bunch of homo-whatever loosers:

U were young back in the days so u can easily guess what teenage boys/young men wanna play/look at- muscular manly men and young hot sexy af women, and we got none of that here
And for contrast lets look how successful multiplayer game's roster looks like:

or

Basically if u want males to enjoy ur game they either go for ultra masculine men or sexy af hot women which is strong opposite to what "modern audience" games stand for, hence they keep failing.

Hell, we know even what next such a "modern audience" game gonna be, and we can easily predict it flopping hard, just based on its roster:

The modern audience exists in the same way vegans exist but they don't go to a steakhouse. Come the Switch 2 launch, the queue outside the local game store is going to resemble your typical Warhammer convention. White, male and straight. The problem is that people who work in the games industry just don't like the fact that the people who play games don't look like them. That's fine. Vegans at least don't work in an abottoir.

Plenty of women play Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Apex Legends, etc. Believe it or not, most women don't want to play as ugly masculine body-positive female characters either.

I'm convinced it's virtue signaling all the way down. Everyone pretends to like this shit because they're supposed to, but nobody actually likes it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Plenty of women play Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Apex Legends, etc. Believe it or not, most women don't want to play as ugly masculine body-positive female characters either.

I'm convinced it's virtue signaling all the way down. Everyone pretends to like this shit because they're supposed to, but nobody actually likes it.

Every woman I've ever played with in MMOs back in the day with our guilds all wanted to make the prettiest feminine character they could make. In fact, a lot of the spouses would have that as a rule when the guild decided to try another MMO, is that the females better be good looking and not ugly or manly.

Now granted this was back in the 2000's, but still, most women want to look feminine and pretty. The internet and social media is littered with them. It's only a small but loud microcosm of uggo duffs and men playing dress up that have the hate boners towards the ideal feminine beauty model.

 

[GHG]

As I said, his shtick is clearly working on the gullible. Thoroughly unsurprised to see you there

I played and enjoyed the game at launch.

They've since improved it in many ways and it's now an even better for it.

Sorry they seem to have upset you and your purple brethren though.

 

[Signalis]

I took a look at the article the tweet mentions. Vavra said this:



He was worried about a repeat with what happened with the first game:





He was also worried about being fired due to various things he's posted and said online - for example, being labeled a Trumpist.

It's all here:

'Kingdom Come: Deliverance II' Creative Director Daniel Vavra Says He Included Sodomy To Avoid Being Called Sexist

Daniel Vavra, the Creative Director for Warhorse Studios’ Kingdom Come: Deliverance II, says he included sodomy into the game to avoid being called a sexist.This Substack is reader-supported.

fandompulse.substack.com

Basically, it sounds like he included some things to avoid backlash from certain people but then encountered backlash from that too.

With KCD 1 he didn't give a shit because no one could fire him as Warhorse was independent. But Warhorse got bought by Deep Silver. So he has to bend the knee.

Edit: Developers should stop trying to please people that don't play games, or never intended to buy the game in the first place.

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

Disagree with lof ceo; modern audiences = Fortnite audience. I have no f**king idea why they simply can't say that.

If someone would make a souls genre friendlier it would make bank and take market share. Remember folks if the difficulty was reduced it would just be an adventure game with rpg elements. Souls charm besides lore storytelling is its armor designs rooted in reality vs wow trash designs aka og lof.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Every woman I've ever played with in MMOs back in the day with our guilds all wanted to make the prettiest feminine character they could make. In fact, a lot of the spouses would have that as a rule when the guild decided to try another MMO, is that the females better be good looking and not ugly or manly.

Now granted this was back in the 2000's, but still, most women want to look feminine and pretty. The internet and social media is littered with them. It's only a small but loud microcosm of uggo duffs and men playing dress up that have the hate boners towards the ideal feminine beauty model.

Yup this is my experience too. Women overwhelmingly want to play/create attractive female characters.

^ you just know when someone presented this, in a design meeting filled with scowling blue haired feminists, nobody had the balls to stand up and say "that looks fucking ugly" even though 95% of them were thinking that.

Instead they all clapped and said "oh, oh yes that's so wonderful and inclusive!"

 

[laynelane]

With KCD 1 he didn't give a shit because no one could fire him as Warhorse was independent. But Warhorse got bought by Deep Silver. So he has to bend the knee.

Edit: Developers should stop trying to please people that don't play games, or never intended to buy the game in the first place.

Yeah, they're owned by Plaion who is owned by Embracer Group. The latter has a clear policy with regards to ESG too:

https://embracer.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Embracer_Group_ESG_Fact_Sheet_Q3_FY2425.pdf

(page two if you want to read it)

 

[mckmas8808]

I took a look at the article the tweet mentions. Vavra said this:



He was worried about a repeat with what happened with the first game:





He was also worried about being fired due to various things he's posted and said online - for example, being labeled a Trumpist.

It's all here:

'Kingdom Come: Deliverance II' Creative Director Daniel Vavra Says He Included Sodomy To Avoid Being Called Sexist

Daniel Vavra, the Creative Director for Warhorse Studios’ Kingdom Come: Deliverance II, says he included sodomy into the game to avoid being called a sexist.This Substack is reader-supported.

fandompulse.substack.com

Basically, it sounds like he included some things to avoid backlash from certain people but then encountered backlash from that too.

Why is he even thinking about all of this?! NONE OF IT MATTERS! In the game or not......both KCD and KCD2 was received well and sold great.

 

[PeteBull]

Plenty of women play Marvel Rivals, Overwatch, Apex Legends, etc. Believe it or not, most women don't want to play as ugly masculine body-positive female characters either.

I'm convinced it's virtue signaling all the way down. Everyone pretends to like this shit because they're supposed to, but nobody actually likes it.

Nope bro, overall women barely play non phone aka proper games, from that even smaller niche plays competetive shooters, ofc its "plenty" but can u call few % of ur audience as "plenty".
Ofc its virtue signaling too, and ofc all those games have terrible sales, i remember game that was overwhelmingly played by women was DA:I, roughly 50% of its 12m copies sold were supposedly to women, the thing is, when game was made with women as target aka DA:V, game flopped hard, so u would think 50% of those 12m players who were women would love to play new DA game, and yet game didnt even have 2m sales, even including males, so tldr, all that 50% women players is bullshit, women play it when their brother/father/bf/fiance/hubby buy the game, they themselfs dont pay for it - hence huge flop of DA:V that was 100% targetting women
Here source, look how low % of women play any competetive games, like fps/sports:

Beyond 50/50: Breaking Down The Percentage of Female Gamers By Genre

Using the data we have from over 270,000 gamers, we’ve put together some findings on the percentage of female gamers across game genres.

quanticfoundry.com

And among Western RPGs, Dragon Age: Inquisition is also much higher than the group average (48% vs. 26%).

Thats raw data, 48% of DA:I games were supposed to be women according to that(ofc manipulation happened, likely concious too, coz again, those female players dont mean they bought game themselfs, rather played already purchased game by male close to her

Once again, there is very few games that target women and have commercial success, one im sure of is nintendo's animal crossing, over 81m total copies for whole franchise, latest entry at over 45m sold copies but that is exception that confirms the rule.
Again im not saying we get 0 of games targetting women, im just saying its hard to target both audiences here, i think "modern audience" is basically targeting women, aka no "toxic masculity" in it, no brutality, no gore, no nasty(which we, men find super fun) dialogues.

Its like with movies, both Barbie and Openheimer had tremendous success at the same time, but those were 2 vastly different products with 2 vastly different target audiences
There is a reason women are main target audience for romantic comedies, men are for ppv of fighting sports, ufc, boxign, hell even bare knuckless fighting events.

Here quick example
romantic comedy trailer:

and here ppv bare knuckles championship event trailer:


We all know who is one for and who is the other.
Here bonus part for the conneseours, miss of ring girls election trailer:

 

[Dynasty8]

Definitions matter here as words tend to migrate. How are we defining this so called "modern audience"?

 

[Trekinspace88]

Definitions matter here as words tend to migrate. How are we defining this so called "modern audience"?

To me the definition of 'modern audience' is the anti woke crowd.

I will never understand why a game dev would censor their own game just to appease a certain crowd. If a game has male/female gender types then cool and if it has Type 1/Type 2/Type 3 etc then cool. It doesn't bother me if a game has either or both options.

For me personally I'm male but i do prefer to play as a Female character whenever a game (Cyberpunk/Elder Scrolls/Fallout etc) gives me the option.