Fake
Member
Thats quite possible. Even Super-man in this movie not being a patriot, people around the world still see him as one. His clothes color give that USA vibe.
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Thats quite possible. Even Super-man in this movie not being a patriot, people around the world still see him as one. His clothes color give that USA vibe.
Doom85
Member
If batman only could tilt his head down, chin on chest, and still fight crime, I suppose you are correct
March Climber
Gold Member
Doom85
- You should
- use these
- more often
- to lessen
- the walls
- of text
KyoZz
write. However you are the one of the last in a dying breed of people who converse in an old-school forum poster fashion, like you're writing out a presentable speech. People prefer quick snippet points nowadays, like the end of an IGN review or a quick tweet.
In Iran and Gaza, sure.
But there is a pretty overt "White fascist technologically advanced nation invading a poor brown rural nation" theme in the film, if that isn't a "mea culpa" to the world, I don't know what it.
Of course they could have played it as "The US wants to stop aggressive dictators from picking on their weaker neighbors" which was the way the US operated (or at least that was the story they sold) for DECADES post WW1 and thus Superman was essential an agent of US diplomacy, but the Lois/Clark interview made it pretty clear that Superman was largely intervening in a struggle he maybe shouldn't, rather than the obvious OF COURSE he should narrative. The end tried to have its cake and eat it which muddied that message a bit.
Ultimately I think classic villains are done. Daredevil Born Again, with Kingpin winning a legitimate election into power and then enacting his schemes. There has been enough 'real world' distrust in the democratic process that it longer works to have super villains, at least the super rich ones, operating outside the political sphere. Far easier to just buy an election, become the leader of whatever-istan, and then have a strong defense against superhero intervention. The Lex Luthor style villain needs to be remolded if they want to continue with them.
Doom85
Member
I don't mind the walls myself, because I like reading what people like you and
- You should
- use these
- more often
- to lessen
- the walls
- of text
However you are the one of the last in a dying breed of people who converse in an old-school forum poster fashion, like you're writing out a presentable speech. People prefer quick snippet points nowadays, like the end of an IGN review or a quick tweet.
Well, I hear you, but you can't really go in depth into analyzing a film that way.
What's funny is people could just ignore a post if they find it too long, but they chose to respond with a Gif in a non-comedic way and/or going simply, "nah". And of course, they were careful to only quote the opening sentence of my argument, heaven forbid we draw more attention to why I was saying it since they've yet to refute any of those details.
Or the people whose posts are usually nothing but: "guys, I'm not going to post MY thoughts, heaven forbid I exert any effort, but please sit through this 10-40 minute video I just linked of a review that I agree with!" Uh, yeah:
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
That is a valid point but I don't think people know the plot. I think oversees people just correlate Superman with America and it instantly turns them off or maybe people are just tired of capeshit.
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Madflavor
Member
It definitely has. America is pretty unpopular right now, and Supes is the quintessential American hero. CBMs are suffering OS anyway, but that extra angle is hurting the film internationally even more.
Trackers seem to think if OS wasn't an issue, Superman probably would be doing GotG3 numbers.
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Alex11
Gold Member
Maybe a bit, but in Europe at least - where I'm from - it's more of a superhero movies fatigue and a Marvel one at that.
Because let's be honest, this has those Marvel trademark jokes all around and with Gunn, I think people knew what to expect.
I thought he was a very good Bruce. He didn't have much to work with, sadly. If he was given better material(much like batfleck). I think he'd be remembered much more fondly.If batman only could tilt his head down, chin on chest, and still fight crime, I suppose you are correct
Spyxos
Gold Member
It was better than expected, but also by far the weakest Gunn movie. It is not something you have to see. And the fights were pretty weak and there weren't even many of them. And Lex is far too strong here.
I'll probably miss something like that here. Here, every blow had power and force behind it, which is completely absent now.
I'll probably miss something like that here. Here, every blow had power and force behind it, which is completely absent now.
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If you told me that George Clooney snuck out at night to beat up petty crooks I would 100% believe you.
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
Snyder has a very strong sense of posing that works incredibly well for graphic novel/comic book adaptations; basically every moment in the smallville fight can be frozen and it looks like a comic book panel.
Faora is basically doing this:
Just in motion
The way to show super-speed this way relying on strong posing was pretty mind-blowing at the time and still hasn't been topped.
But yeah the entire movie is like this, even when she fights supes in the diner, you can see all the strong posing when she lifts him up and the camera holds for a moment, and then she slams him down and her cape gives her a beautiful silhouette that's just straight up another panel
The only other I've seen getting this right as well is edgar wright with scott pilgrim.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Can we all chill out? We're Superman fans... We have more in common than not on that perch!
Madflavor
Member
You say that as if you guys don't flock to the theater in droves to see another cgi Dino film.
He's from Finland, I'm pretty sure they will flock to the theater to see ANYTHING other than tundra and fjords
Nicktendo86
Member
Watched this tonight and I think I actually… hated it. Like really feel no desire to watch it again, I honestly thought it was awful. Zero setup or establishment for any of the characters , half of the film it felt like was characters talking about a war between two fictional countries and I didn't have a clue what the fuck was going on or why I should care.
Superman was getting his arsed kicked left right and centre, especially by someone being given instructions by someone over a radio which makes sense against a man faster than a speeding bullet?
Makeout scenes went on for too long to the point of being awkward. Music was all over the place as was the tone.
Casting was decent at least.
Edit: not sure if this is an indication of performance over here in the UK but at our showing at 8pm on a Saturday the room was maybe 4/5 empty. Place felt utterly dead.
Superman was getting his arsed kicked left right and centre, especially by someone being given instructions by someone over a radio which makes sense against a man faster than a speeding bullet?
Makeout scenes went on for too long to the point of being awkward. Music was all over the place as was the tone.
Casting was decent at least.
Edit: not sure if this is an indication of performance over here in the UK but at our showing at 8pm on a Saturday the room was maybe 4/5 empty. Place felt utterly dead.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
The first few negative reviews were all from the UK. So... Makes sense.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
The movie was okay. I saw it the other day, but didn't feel like rushing to express my thoughts about it, which should say something about my feelings. I like the personality of this Superman compared to the Snyder Superman, but I would have preferred the movie focus on the core characters instead of taking all these side quests with secondary characters.
I think it's telling about Gunn's forte when it seemed to my like he had more fun making the Justice Gang content since that's more like his "ensemble of wacky characters" vibe more akin to Suicide Squad and Guardians of the Galaxy.
Overall, I didn't hate it but I'm not clamoring to watch it again or look forward to what's coming next. After hearing how triggered people were being about political themes in the movie, and then watching the actual movie - I don't see what the fuss was about. People complaining because they need something to complain about, probably.
6.5/10 - Not bad but not amazing. Not a 7 because there's wasted potential.
I think it's telling about Gunn's forte when it seemed to my like he had more fun making the Justice Gang content since that's more like his "ensemble of wacky characters" vibe more akin to Suicide Squad and Guardians of the Galaxy.
Overall, I didn't hate it but I'm not clamoring to watch it again or look forward to what's coming next. After hearing how triggered people were being about political themes in the movie, and then watching the actual movie - I don't see what the fuss was about. People complaining because they need something to complain about, probably.
6.5/10 - Not bad but not amazing. Not a 7 because there's wasted potential.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Question for the Superman lore nerds - is there a precedent for Superman's parents being malicious? I wasn't sure if that was what they actually said of if Lex manipulated the data. It was a little edgy to see Bradley Cooper Jor-El (lol) talk like that but I'm not a fan of that direction. We have a lot of the "superhero was sent to Earth to destroy it but is actually cool now" tropes in the last 50 years of pop culture, so it was weird to see that pop up in Superman.
Still bitter about that whole tea tariff thing, I guess
Reizo Ryuu
Gold Member
Actually malicious? No not really; the closest I recall is this one, but there's no malice here, just analysis and was also semi-used for man of steel:
Alx
Member
Probably the laziest storytelling I've witnessed in a while. On screen text, tv journalist inserts, out of place monologues… not only is it cliche but it feels like the director thinks you're a moron and have to be fed all the plot before watching a scene. And the depiction of that war was silly, I mean i
The actors themselves were good but their characters weren't, Superman is an empty shell, Lois Lane pointless and far from her expected hothead/scoop hunting behavior, Luther wasn't exactly machiavelic and used gratuitous violence,…
I agree with the idea above that Gunn was more interested in the Justice Gang, maybe a movie about those guys and not Superman would have been more entertaining.
tanks and armed soldiers facing a group of people holding sticks in one open field ? Come on, it's not like we have a good idea of what an invasion war in Europe would look like nowadays
I agree with the idea above that Gunn was more interested in the Justice Gang, maybe a movie about those guys and not Superman would have been more entertaining.
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RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Ahem, some of us still like quality superhero movies and this was class, I blew near £70 just to take my kid to see it in IMAX and we loved it, hell even the special cup was worth the price
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Crazy how Christopher Reeve understood Superman, and how Gunn went to make the most stupid version
I must say that my problem isn't really with walls of text but more with the content. Doom quickly resolve into sarcasm, disingenuous argumentation and no, quoting a single case of a comics that's been released 70 years ago on a character that had million of interpretation doesn't make a point.I don't mind the walls myself, because I like reading what people like you and
Doom85
Member
Bruh, you ain't high-roading me when you act like this:
Ah yes, because my analysis of the film doesn't match yours, that TOTALLY justifies you calling me a liar.
Like, it's hilarious how you were all, "nah, nah, I didn't strawman YOU specifically" and then in the very same post you attack me anyway. You can't make this shit up.
Edit: also just noticed you used "disingenuous" in your post I quoted just now. Wow, dude. Are you even thinking about how blatantly hypocritical what you're posting is? This is like accusing me of shoplifting a candy bar as you race your completely full grocery cart out the door without paying.
(also, I don't even know what you're even referring to with your "single comic from 70 years ago" noise. Pretty much everything I've said about Superman's characterization has been found in many comics and other Superman media, virtually all of it post-Crisis AKA after 1985. So your decades estimate is way off to say the least)
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VulcanRaven
Member
This is a lot more closer to Reeve's version than Man of Steel.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Sorry but there some flaws that are unquestionable. A lack of focus and the fact that Gunn seems more interested in the Justice Gang than Superman are some of them.
Missing the point...
(also, I don't even know what you're even referring to with your "single comic from 70 years ago" noise. Pretty much everything I've said about Superman's characterization has been found in many comics and other Superman media, virtually all of it post-Crisis AKA after 1985. So your decades estimate is way off to say the least)
Hard disagree, just the first sentence by Reeve make Gunn's Superman obsolete. Thing is Gunn force feed everything to the audience, when Snyder is more subtle. I'm not sure how Superman 2025 will pass the test of time.
Like people still doubting the Jor-El thing, when even James Gunn is like "damn I put 3 confirmation how are they still doubting this lmao". No surprise everything is fucked now with movie and writing if people are still missing stuff like this...
Doom85
Member
So you call anyone who doesn't agree with "unquestionable flaws" (ah yes, that doesn't reek of the "ACTUHALLY, my opinion is objective" shit) a liar?
You know, it doesn't speak to much confidence in your opinion if you have to resort to calling anyone who disagrees with said opinion a liar, now does it?
Like, you're not trying to sneak past this like I can tell you're trying to after realizing you fucked up. You called me a liar simply because I looked at the film a certain way. What's hilarious is you (and the others who disagreed) can't even actually refute my argument about the film's focus when it comes to how it all ties into Superman and/or Lex Luthor's plan to defame and kill Superman. It's just all, "nah, bro", a Gif, or in your case, an unjustifiable personal attack.
Doom85
Member
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
It's made $400million globally as of today.
Hip-hop-hooray!!!!
Hip-hop-hooray!!!!
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
With this particular flaw? Yes. Some flaws are unquestionable. Jar Jar for example you can like him, but don't act like he's the best part of SW.
Same with the lack of focus in Superman, you can like the fact that there so many characters and stuff happening, but dont pretend it's not a problem for the GA. You can like something but still understand why it doesn't work for the majority of people.
Again, you can accept this as a flaw and still think it's an awesome movie. More power to you and I'm happy you enjoyed it!
The same way I'm saying this is an obvious flaw while not dismissing his other quality (the cast notably).
As I said, I'll keep that for my full review. We'll be able to talk more about it then and you will have the full extend of my opinion. Just know that it's not because they are connected to Lex that is suddenly make the movie not overstuffed. You can do a Superman/Lex story without them, what you are justifying is the movie having to compose with them because Gunn chose to put them in.
Like, you're not trying to sneak past this like I can tell you're trying to after realizing you fucked up. You called me a liar simply because I looked at the film a certain way. What's hilarious is you (and the others who disagreed) can't even actually refute my argument about the film's focus when it comes to how it all ties into Superman and/or Lex Luthor's plan to defame and kill Superman. It's just all, "nah, bro", a Gif, or in your case, an unjustifiable personal attack.
More sarcasm, anyway let's go past the shitposting. Are you really pretending not to understand that I'm specifically talking about how Cavill embodies hope in MoS? Or how most is "show, don't tell" a thing that Gunn is almost incapable of in Superman?
Man, I wish more directors could be subtle like this.
Now for sure, if you wanna talk about the Christ representation in MoS, it's absolutely not subtle. But it's still far better executed than anything Gunn did in Superman IMO.
Doom85
Member
Sounds like we need to call in Superman to deal with you-
-cause you got a severe case of elitism.
Like, dude, I may disagree with plenty of people and, yes, point to the source material as to why I feel they're mistaken, but I'm not TELLING them they aren't ALLOWED to feel how they feel about something just because I disagree. And I certainly don't call them LIARS over it.
Like, bruh, my most hated movie (not saying I think it's the worst movie, just I dislike it the most) is Silent Hill Homecoming as it butchers the source material on a level that even some of the most inaccurate and poorly executed adaptations out there still don't make me as upset as that film does……and one of my friends just enjoys that movie. She admits she never played the game, but just thinks as a movie in of itself that it was pretty good. And even if I think the film as a film in of itself is still awful, I'm not telling her she isn't allowed to feel that way.
You can't sit here and be all, "it's all good, man, relax, it's just opinions" but then in the same post tell people they aren't allowed to say certain opinions.
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Before anything, know that this will be my last response to you on this matter. We'll get back at it once I post my full review as I'm sure you will quote me to explain why I'm wrong because of this case on that comics from 60 years ago.
This way of posting is exactly what I'm talking about. How am I supposed to take you seriously?
Sounds like we need to call in Superman to deal with you-
-cause you got a severe case of elitism.
Oh no for sure, you just quote everyone and post walls of text to explain why what they think is not ok with the canon of this single case from a comics that's 50 years old (or 40, or 30 whatever).
Ok? Good for you.
You don't get it, it's not like you are there saying "I disagree but ok". Not, you are quoting people with walls of text and explain why they are wrong. That's the difference. The Jor El talk is a perfect example.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Madflavor
Member
Currently tracking a 52% drop for its second weekend, which is pretty outstanding. People can of course argue what Superman should be, how he should act, and all that happy horse shit. But here's the fact of the matter. THIS Superman is connecting with the public, in a way we probably haven't seen since the Christopher Reeve era.
I enjoyed Man of Steel, but that film dropped 65% in its second weekend. At the end of the day, the numbers tell the true story. You can continue to shit on James Gunn and Superman 2025, but the man did his job. He's made Superman relevant again. Families are still showing up in droves, kids are being introduced to the character and loving him, and I think any Superman fan should find that awesome.
I enjoyed Man of Steel, but that film dropped 65% in its second weekend. At the end of the day, the numbers tell the true story. You can continue to shit on James Gunn and Superman 2025, but the man did his job. He's made Superman relevant again. Families are still showing up in droves, kids are being introduced to the character and loving him, and I think any Superman fan should find that awesome.
March Climber
Gold Member
Oh I know how someone can get a wall of text out of you, and it involves heavy critique of the Snyderverse lol.
VulcanRaven
Member
"BIGGEST 2nd weekend EVER for any film featuring Supes, beating #BatmanvSuperman's 51.3M, -69.1%"
"Top5 BIGGEST 2nd weekends for DC:
#TheDarkKnight 75.2M, -52.5%
#TheBatman 66.5M, 50.4%
#TheDarkKnightRises 62.1M, -61.4%
#WonderWoman 58.5M, -43.3%
#SUPERMAN 57.2M, -54.2%
The Holy DC Trinity finally united in the Top5 "
SamuraiEdge
Member
Hell yeah, go Superman!
Doom85
Member
Dude, you cannot be this bad at hearing what someone is saying LOUD AND CLEARLY, or you're just pretending to hoping you won't be called out for it anymore.
You flat out said people can't have certain opinions, like saying Jar Jar is the best part of Star Wars. That is BLATANT elitism. Me saying, "hey, I disagree, and here's some source material and/or media analysis to reinforce my argument" does not compare to you trying to dictate what people think.
If people find my behavior obnoxious, fine, whatever, I find a decent amount of people on this forum obnoxious myself. Big whoop. But even almost all of those people I find obnoxious at least don't tell other people they're not allowed to have certain opinions about media. I may strongly disagree with them, BUT:
-I don't call them a liar
-I don't tell them they're not allowed to have that opinion
Don't try to compare me to what you just did. You fucked up, it would be nice if you could at the very least own up to it.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Doom85
Member
He called me a liar twice simply because of how I analyzed the film. I decided to be the bigger person and not report him over that even though I easily could have.
Unless this forum actually thinks:
"being 'obnoxious' by disagreeing with someone and explaining why you disagree with them"
and
"calling someone you disagree with a lair and telling them what opinions they're allowed to have"
is on the same level. I would hope that's not the case.
If he personally attacks me again, he's getting a report. Then the matter will be dropped.
Edit: he also in incapable of listening to people, or just chooses not to. He now says, "oh, you'll use a comics example from 60 years ago!" All the examples I used are post-Crisis, AKA 1985 to today. At least he's not claiming 70 years anymore, but he's still way off.
What's funny is I supported a specific moment in Man of Steel by showing how it directly adapted a moment from Geoff Johns' Superman: Secret Origin. Funny how he was all for that when he responded to that post, but if you do a comic comparison with this movie, oh, NOW it's an issue.
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VulcanRaven
Member
I really wish they wouldn't have released it so close to Fantastic Four. I'm sure it will continue have a lot viewers but it will a big impact.
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Avatar checks out
DC should try to mobilize a campaign to see Superman instead of FFFS. Be WILD if it could take #1 next weekend.
Not gonna happen, probably, but it would be nice.
KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
Me (Be careful, I subtly underlined the important part):
Dude, you cannot be this bad at hearing what someone is saying LOUD AND CLEARLY, or you're just pretending to hoping you won't be called out for it anymore.
You flat out said people can't have certain opinions, like saying Jar Jar is the best part of Star Wars. That is BLATANT elitism. Me saying, "hey, I disagree, and here's some source material and/or media analysis to reinforce my argument" does not compare to you trying to dictate what people think.
"Jar Jar for example you can like him,but don't act like he's the best part of SW". Because yes, who in his right mind is gonna tell with a straight face Jar Jar is the best part of SW? Some things are unquestionable. Water is wet and it's not because someone is saying "it's not" that it will change the truth.
And if you can find ONE PERSON. Just ONE, that's saying Jar Jar is THE BEST PART OF ALL SW and not ironically but for real, then I will apologize.
Yeah you are so much better than me, blablabla...If people find my behavior obnoxious, fine, whatever, I find a decent amount of people on this forum obnoxious myself. Big whoop. But even almost all of those people I find obnoxious at least don't tell other people they're not allowed to have certain opinions about media. I may strongly disagree with them, BUT:
-I don't call them a liar
-I don't tell them they're not allowed to have that opinion
Don't try to compare me to what you just did. You fucked up, it would be nice if you could at the very least own up to it.
simply because of how I analyzed the film. I decided to be the bigger person and not report him over that even though I easily could have.
Where? I don't remember that, I said disingenuous argumentation tho.
Again, you don't say "I disagree but ok". That would be fair.
Give me a break. You are the one hiding behind sarcasm and calling other names. You want me to quote what you said to me when talking about Snyder? YOU are the one being insulting in the past, so stop this victimization complex. Manabyte was the same, remember how you were both so happy to shit on me? Were is he now?
It was AN EXAMPLE. You hide behind "they are pre Crysis" yeah maybe on that topic but the thing is you are acting like that on every thread. So maybe not on this very topic, but elsewhere that's for sure. And even if it's not 70 years but 60 or 50, you are missing the fact that I'm not criticizing the age of you example, but the nature of it.
Jor El for example is not a vilain in the canon and in 99,99% of the comics, so taking an example to show that 40 years ago in an Elseworld story or whatever he was made a vilain is useless (not saying you did as I'm not reading everything you post, but again it's an example).
Also, Superman had so many adaptation that you could probably justify everything, does it make it ok tho?
Again missing the point.
Doom85
Member
See, you enlarging and highlighting that is just trying to downplay what instantly follows it. You are telling people what opinions they're allowed to have or otherwise they're just "acting".
Are you honestly comparing a scientific fact to someone thinking Jar Jar is the best part of SW?
Why should I find you an example of someone saying that about Jar Jar? You'd just call them a liar because that's what you've already said you would on certain opinions like that! You're just trying to waste my time now.
Definition of DISINGENUOUS
lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : calculating… See the full definition
www.merriam-webster.com
Like, ignoring the fact you called me a liar once (or do I have to explain what "dishonest" means to?), what do you think "disingenuous" means?
How am I being unfair by simply elaborating on my disagreement? YOU'RE the one making accusations of honesty and saying certain opinions aren't even allowed.
Whoa now, a walltext AND elaborating on your disagreement with me?
The latter being what you just said me doing was "unfair" (for whatever bizarre reason)?
Seriously, dude, enough. You're going back to ignore, life is too short to waste on someone who behaves how you do.
And let me make this very clear: you call me a liar even ONCE more (and don't try to claim a synonym isn't just the same thing), you sabotage a discussion I'm having with someone by attacking my character, and so forth, you will be reported instantly. I've given you far more leeway than I should. I explained everything reasonably, and tried to appeal to your better nature, but you refused to listen. I'm done, so don't talk to me or even talk about me openly to another person in an insulting way, or I'll let the mods know Krypto needs to teach Lex Luthor some manners.
