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[RCX]

They worked like hell to convince dumb people that words=violence. And here's the result.

Absolute fucking ghouls.

Even if you're happy to see it, which I can never understand, have some fucking respect for yourself and enjoy it in silence.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Most of you people don't know who the fuck that man was but now what to be the Captain of the Morality ship. Hilarious.

The problem is we have become ghouls with no sense of morality at all.

This is evidenced by the fact that we can viscously mock the murder of a young man with a family over the words that he said.

Then when normal people have the nerve to be offended by that you call us the "Captain of the Morality ship" and others equate us to the ghouls elating over the death of this poor kid.

Something is wrong here. We have become ghouls and animals. We have nothing but resentment and hate for our fellow man.

On topic, these people are sick and they should probably find work in a non-public sector where their opinions won't hurt the product they have teamed up with others to create. Touch grass. One day they may realize they were all wrong but that depends on their personal growth.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

The fact of the matter is mocking and cheering on a political assassination crosses a line despite no policy existing. You can say your views are not that of your companies all you want, but if your companies product relies on sales in a country you are actively mocking half the population of, then your personal views impact the company. This is why professionals working in professional fields don't talk about politics online. A company CAN fire you for voicing your political views publicly online. I think its very clear that these people aren't professionals

This stuff happens all the time in regards to posting divisive stuff online. Don't do it. You don't get do-overs and you don't get to apologize (the left made those rules) and now they should suffer the consequences.

I have no doubt at all that he will be facing some consequences. There's no doubt about that. His life will likely change when he wakes up this morning.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Yes, actions have consequences but not every consequence is just or proportional. Being assassinated for speech/public open debates is not a natural consequence, it's an act of violence. Getting fired for celebrating someone's death is not the same as being assassinated for expressing views, that is a false equivalence.

He pointed out examples of actions having consequences.
Both examples work for showcasing that, as different as they are.

Also nobody is saying anything about just or proportional.

It's just that if you go out there spreading an ideology that is as .. uhm... divisive as Kirk did, you have to know that you are painting a target on your back.
And that you are making yourself the enemy of many people.
All it takes from that point, is one deranged individual (there are plenty) with access to a gun (we're talking about the US here, so, yknow....) and protection failing their job (not blaming them, 100% safety is impossible no matter the amount of protection, and you cannot run full protection for every divisive individual).

Again, I'm not defending what happened, and from what I get neither is Killjoy-NL .
But the world we live in is the world we live in, and the people living in it are unfortunately the people living in it, many riled up close to breaking point.
In these times, if you put yourself on a pedestal speaking about whatever divisive issue from whatever perspective, you are in at least some danger.

In other words: This is sad, but sadly, it isn't surprising to me. At all.
Neither the assassination itself nor the exploitation of it for further political division.
Anyone who calls that kind of neutral observation victim blaming really needs to touch some grass.

 

[Fake]

Not buying this piece of shit game since the senior dev on the team is celebrating a certain assassinated politician:

Deplorable. Both those devs and fanboys that support this brainrot mentality.

Sick individuals.

 

[calico]

It certainly isn't an 'overwhelmingly left wing problem'

Ok, except it is.

leftists aren't the folks I've been seeing calling for a civil war and 'revenge' since yesterday.

Why would they call for revenge for an attack they are jubilant about?

It wasn't also leftists who killed those Dem politicians a few months back.

It was, for breaking ranks to vote with Republicans against free medical care for illegal immigrants a few days earlier. Delusional to think otherwise. The far left hates the not-far-enough-left even more than they hate the right (see JK Rowling).

 

[Judge Magister]

Great Gaming Discussion Thread.

Will try this NeoGAF feature. Thanks.

 

[protonion]

Sony Corp, time to clean house. Devs and HR.
And fast.

 

[Topher]

Is it really to be expected that a company should issue a public statement every time an individual employee expresses a personal opinion that is some bullshit like in this case?

These devs are putting the company name in their profiles. Saying "views are my own" doesn't make the company invulnerable to pushback when the dev says something as horrible as celebrating a person's death. If their views truly are their own then remove the company from their profile or even post anonymously.

 

[Ellis]

Seriously though, fuck worrying about the game boys and girls. That isn't the issue here, and it shouldn't be. These people would be doing the same thing if they worked at Tesco Walmart.

Workplace is irrelevant.

 

[Ishma3L]

Don't these companies invest in some sort of mandatory internal annual HR/Business training for their employees as a condition of being employed there. Don't post political shit (and a lot of other stuff) on social media is that kind of training 101. You're representing a larger organization that may not share your worldview. A crazy thought I know. It can always come back to hurt your employer and it's always going to be there.
Often, your employer doesn't care about you - until say, you post some stupid shit online the directly impacts sales of an upcoming game launch. Not saying what currently is happening is going to have that level of effect but you get my point.

 

[Critical Hit]

It's just that if you go out there spreading an ideology that is as .. uhm... divisive as Kirk did, you have to know that you are painting a target on your back.

I think you've confused US with some islamic country.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

If they don't react, it's seen as tacit approval. Look at the replies to the most recent Yotei tweet. This is going to be plastered on every communication Sony does about the game now (YT, PS Blog etc), unless it's dealt with, it risks becoming a moral and ideological battlefield. Hell, I'd order a review of the story and even delay for changes if there are politically problematic story beats & themes. Maybe even delay it so this can blow over.
Last thing Sony wants is for Trump to write a Truth Social post about them.

Delay a game worldwide because of a high-profile assassination? I'm not sure this reaches the level where that would be a serious discussion at the highest levels of Playstation. I'm not being callous here, I'm simply stating this is very unlikely to happen in this situation.

 

[geary]

Don't these companies invest in some sort of mandatory internal annual HR/Business training for their employees as a condition of being employed there. Don't post political shit (and a lot of other stuff) on social media is that kind of training 101. You're representing a larger organization that may not share your worldview. A crazy thought I know. It can always come back to hurt your employer and it's always going to be there.
Often, your employer doesn't care about you - until say, you post some stupid shit online the directly impacts sales of an upcoming game launch. Not saying what currently is happening is going to have that level of effect but you get my point.

Maybe they should add another point on their DEI presentation near "being inclusive" and "tolerate all genders" with "don't fucking cheer when people are assassinated"

 

[Radical_3d]

He pointed out examples of actions having consequences.
Both examples work for showcasing that, as different as they are.

Also nobody is saying anything about just or proportional.

It's just that if you go out there spreading an ideology that is as .. uhm... divisive as Kirk did, you have to know that you are painting a target on your back.
And that you are making yourself the enemy of many people.
All it takes from that point, is one deranged individual (there are plenty) with access to a gun (we're talking about the US here, so, yknow....) and protection failing their job (not blaming them, 100% safety is impossible no matter the amount of protection, and you cannot run full protection for every divisive individual).

Again, I'm not defending what happened, and from what I get neither is Killjoy-NL .
But the world we live in is the world we live in, and the people living in it are unfortunately the people living in it, many riled up close to breaking point.
In these times, if you put yourself on a pedestal speaking about whatever divisive issue from whatever perspective, you are in at least some danger.

In other words: This is sad, but sadly, it isn't surprising to me. At all.
Neither the assassination itself nor the exploitation of it for further political division.
Anyone who calls that kind of neutral observation victim blaming really needs to touch some grass.

I agree with most of this but I think that the Killjoy-NL post lacks the tact and the nuance that words shouldn't get you killed in his post and he's getting a pushback for that. I'm not saying he isn't aware of that nuance in his view, I'm just saying that the post, plain as he posted it, can be seen as what he said plus "so you'd better speak the right words".

 

[graywolf323]

Its always the same people man

I have a feeling that the heads of Sucker Punch find her annoying and it's not just because she's an extrovert

 

[Critical Hit]

These devs are putting the company name in their profiles.

You forgot that these devs put their political views in their games.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Sony Corp, time to clean house. Devs and HR.
And fast.

Comments like this are ridiculous and unhelpful. Not to mention made before thinking.

 

[Romulus]

From a moderate perspective, it's so bizarre to me how so many leftist claim to be tolerate, but that only applies to people who agree with them. They've invented this world were difference in opinion=Fascist or nazis.

I actually agree with some of their concepts but the party has become so vile "for the greater good" they say. I will continue to vote republican just to keep them out of power. Not even a fan of Trump either.

This whole "freedom fighter" against tyranny shit is hilarious too. 90% of them spoiled rich kids or living the exact same life when biden was in office.

 

[Topher]

I think you forgot, that these devs put their political views in their games.

I'm not talking about expressing political views. I'm talking about celebrating a real person's death.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Seriously though, fuck worrying about the game boys and girls. That isn't the issue here, and it shouldn't be. These people would be doing the same thing if they worked at Tesco Walmart.

Workplace is irrelevant.

I agree. I have no interest in their games, to be honest.

But if I had, I wouldn't not buy it because of this despicable behavior.
If the official account of game/developer/publisher did that, I'd get it somewhat.

But personally, I always try and separate art and artist, and throwing entire teams under the bus for the actions of individuals is just nonsensical collective punishment, which can only lead to further fuelling of flames while having exactly zero influence on games and their development.

I think you forgot, that these devs put their political views in their games.

Some do, some don't.
It warrants at least looking closer at their games, but not outright "this person bad, therefore, not buying anything from studio X".

 

[Senua]

Great Gaming Discussion Thread.

Will try this NeoGAF feature. Thanks.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

These devs are putting the company name in their profiles. Saying "views are my own" doesn't make the company invulnerable to pushback when the dev says something as horrible as celebrating a person's death. If their views truly are their own then remove the company from their profile or even post anonymously.

Do you do that? Create an anonymous X account so that you can freely post your views because of fear of retribution from your employer? He's not famous nor influential, he works at a video game studio and you likely only ever heard of him because of the events from this week. "These devs" I mean, c'mon.

I know temperatures are high right now across the country, but there's no overlaying/broad problem specifically with video game developers stating controversial things on their social media accounts. That's a permanent Everyone problem because of the damaging nature of social media and the highly polarized and dangerous political climate we are all currently living in. I think some perspective is being lost, here.

 

[Branded]

I'm still buying those games if they ever come to PC (more specifically, Ghost of Yotei).
An individual's dev opinion does NOT reflect the company as a whole. Criticize the dev person, not the company. Those games are collectively created by multiple teams, not a single person.

Weak

 

[Det]

A victim of his own ideology

The world would be fairer if people suffered the consequences of their own ideologies.

 

[Sacred]

It's pretty simple:

The words he spoke ultimately resulted in his assassination.

In the philosophical sense, his words caused it.

I'm not going to get into politics in here, but this is fucking pathetic along with everyone else celebrating the death of a husband and a father. No one should ever be killed for preaching an opinion, whether you agree with it or not.

Gaming devs and individuals really showing their true colors after this.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Has Asmon made any vids about it yet? Dude needs to really start dumping some much needed gasoline on this lol

 

[Scrawnton]

Has Asmon made any vids about it yet? Dude needs to really start dumping some much needed gasoline on this lol

Im sure it is coming. He will for sure make a video exposing every industry person cheerleading an assassination.

 

[cormack12]

If you don't do it by population then the delta is even higher. It would be x2124 higher gun deaths in the US.

Which particular legislation are you referring to? I see a drop in 2019 for example but ofcourse other factors like population increase play a part, as does other things like a rise in gangs. it would be a lot more involved to try to see the effect of a particular piece of legislation but even in your graph I see a large fall in that year.

The 2019 legislation wasn't much of a change anyway mostly concentrated on prohibiting sales of corrosive acids due to acid attacks but had some additional laws for the sale of knives too, particularly to underage individuals and prosecuting those who sell them weapons to kids. There was additions to what is considered an offensive weapon too, those used for violence, knuckledusters, cyclone knives and death stars.

The drop coincides with Covid and lockdown pretty much. But I think we may be talking at cross purposes. What I'm saying is that if all guns vanished from the US tomorrow, Kirk is saying there would still be a portion of gun deaths. I supported that notion by saying even in the UK with our strong laws and border control we still get an average of 30 per year, so let's say we just do a direct adjustment (which isn't right as it takes no socioeconomic factors into regard like poverty, violent crime etc). This comes out at 150 deaths. So yeah a dramatic drop on the surface. Which leaves on average 44,000 deaths in the delta. His point is that those 44,000 deaths weighed against the liberty of 335 million people is worth the cost. Now, obviously people can disagree at this point, and there is where he complexity comes in. That 150 is not a 'real' number, it's an extrapolated number so we can have this discussion, but it doesn't take into account the US as a whole. The most notable issue is the gun trade across the US-Mexico border.

So if the gangs are arming themselves, the police need to remain armed. If gangs are armed then the black market for home pistols etc. would rise as well. There is recreational shooting (gun clubs and hunting). I don't even think the 2A is really important to the discussion if I'm being honest. The above means that 150 is still likely to be much, much higher as the baseline figure. What that actually is just a thought experiment but the worst case headline Charlie Kirk is selling is 44,000 deaths versus the liberty of 345 million. I think a lot of people look outward and try to preach how america should govern itself but there are complexities out there that would just be alien to most of us. It's probably more accurate to say the US has a problem with inappropriate citizens owning guns.

Metric	% Increase or Change (2019 to 2023)
Mental health diagnoses (share of patients)	~ +40% (13.5% → 18.9%) fairhealth.org+1
Total firearm deaths	Rough rise from ~39,700 to 46,728 → ** +18%** The Global Statistics+1
Firearm death rate per 100,000	~12.2 → 14.2 → ** +16-20%** from 2019 to 2023 (depending on exact matching) obal Statistics+1

Again, there are safeguards that could go in there (like legislation) but ultimately I don't think if someone really, really wants a gun in the US they wouldn't get one from somewhere.

Knife crime reforms are ridiculously harder to implement because people use knives everyday in their lives. You don't need to have guns in your life for vast majority of population.

While true, the reality is people aren't being stabbed with steak knives and scissors in any signficant number compared to street crime and gangs, and just assholes delinquents. You can look at any major city in the UK and ther results of amnesties which are just a tiny fraction of knives reclaimed

 

[TintoConCasera]

Most of you people don't know who the fuck that man was but now what to be the Captain of the Morality ship. Hilarious.

Most people wouldn't advocate for murder no matter who the victim is. Or that's what I used to believe, but guess I'm retarded and wrong.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Do you do that? Create an anonymous X account so that you can freely post your views because of fear of retribution from your employer?

If you don't, you've got a shit employer.

It's okay to be a cock on your own free time, if you're doing it whilst brandishing your employers name and picking up a pay cheque..

Bye bye

Unless your employer is complicit, that is, and if that's the case, markets decide

Outlook: Not good.

 

[Critical Hit]

I'm not talking about expressing political views.

You're talking about separating personal views from their art/company. I don't know why we should do it if they don't do it themselves.

 

[Topher]

Do you do that? Create an anonymous X account so that you can freely post your views because of fear of retribution from your employer? He's not famous nor influential, he works at a video game studio and you likely only ever heard of him because of the events from this week.

I don't post under my real name anywhere. This guy is a bit more famous today because of what he said and who he works for. Like it or not, that association is there.

Addressing your edit:

I know temperatures are high right now across the country, but there's no overlaying/broad problem specifically with video game developers stating controversial things on their social media accounts. That's a permanent Everyone problem because of the damaging nature of social media and the highly polarized and dangerous political climate we are all currently living in. I think some perspective is being lost, here.

When I say "these devs" I'm referring to the devs in the OP. That isn't a broad generalization of developers on my part. And I never said there was an "overlaying/broad problem". I'm talking about this instance specifically or something equally egregious. This is beyond "stating controversial things".

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Weak

I don't think it's weak at all. It's as valid an opinion as any other I've seen here this morning. He's simply buying a video game. Don't like it? That's fine. But that's just your opinion.

 

[Senua]

A victim of his own ideology

The world would be fairer if people suffered the consequences of their own ideologies.

Victim blaming as per

 

[Topher]

You're talking about separating personal views from their art/company. I don't know why we should do it if they don't do it themselves.

Reread what I said.

" when the dev says something as horrible as celebrating a person's death"

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I don't post under my real name anywhere. This guy is a bit more famous today because of what he said and who he works for. Like it or not, that association is there.

It's there now, as a result of this. But it wasn't there when he made the comments, which was my point.

 

[Neolombax]

I think you've confused US with some islamic country.

Come on man, is that necessary?

 

[Radical_3d]

A victim of his own ideology

The world would be fairer if people suffered the consequences of their own ideologies.

Except his ideology wasn't violence, so he is a victim for having an ideology. And if you go down that way the USA is going to become a very (even more) unpleasant place to live.

 

[Romulus]

That's their right…

But that seems dumb to post things like that publicly with your name attached but that's just me…

Makes you wonder about their core ideas if they can't simple, common sense decisions. They'll be the first to call out "stupid MAGAs", but crying when they lose their job or their game sales bomb. "What happened?"

 

[graywolf323]

might be worth adding this thread from Savvy in the OP, she's tracking a lot of the deplorable reactions from people in the gaming space

 

[StereoVsn]

They worked like hell to convince dumb people that words=violence. And here's the result.

Absolute fucking ghouls.

Even if you're happy to see it, which I can never understand, have some fucking respect for yourself and enjoy it in silence.

Again, it's both fucking sides of the political divide. Guess what rightwing influencers and media figures doing right now?

Predictably calling for violence against the left. This shit just outright needs to stop on both sides.

I do agree that calling out on social media in support of political assassinations is fucking stupid and morally vile.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

If you don't, you've got a shit employer.

It's okay to be a cock on your own free time, if you're doing it whilst brandishing your employers name and picking up a pay cheque..

Bye bye

Unless your employer is complicit, that is, and if that's the case, markets decide

Outlook: Not good.

It's his personal account, and he clearly states views are his own. If you're looking for an association you'll find it, but I think you're assigning motive to him in regards to harming his employer which doesn't actually exist. And no doubt he's in a world of trouble when he wakes up today.

 

[Lokaum D+]

You forgot that these devs put their political views in their games.

there is a saying in Brazil that goes like "one thing is one thing, another thing is another thing", that means...

Devs putting their political view on a fictional game is one thing, Devs making absurd statement about a real life assassination while having the company name at full display at their profile is another thing.

 

[Ellis]

A victim of his own ideology

The world would be fairer if people suffered the consequences of their own ideologies.

So millions of Jewish people deserved to be massacred for believing in something different ?

Your likely innocent and not thought through suggestion is far worse than you probably think it is.

No one deserves this shit. It's not hard to ignore someone like Charlie Kirk if you don't like them. It's really that simple. This man did not deserve to be shot and killed. If he told me he slept with my mother, I'm going to break his nose like a normal person, I'm not going to shoot him.

 

[Scrawnton]

A victim of his own ideology

The world would be fairer if people suffered the consequences of their own ideologies.

There were a lot of evil evil evil people in history that acted upon what you just said. I suggest you rethink your views on this. People like to throw around a certain word that has been sanitized to paint people in a certain light. But your view right here is exactly what that specific accusatory word means.

 

[Fake]

Just checked the replies to that asmongold post, someone has done a kabrutus

Expose Charlie's Murderers

www.charliesmurderers.com

Someone really posted on Instagram he dying...

 

[The_Mike]

Y'all are EXACTLY like that other forum whether you want to admit it or not. Performative outrage for the likes of others.

Era people are killing people over different opinions, we get pissed over being killed because of our opinions.

I agree we are the same.

Lunatic.

 

[Boss Mog]

Asmongold, Roach Lord, Roach Prophet, The Bald Man, Kotaku of the Right, Cucaracha Bullion.

Remember a couple weeks ago when everyone on here was insisting that he would never attempt to cancel people? Feels like a lifetime ago. What was that game, Take Us North? Oh well.

I doubt you'll hear him call for anybody to be fired, he's just shining the flashlight on these devs cause gamers deserve to know who they're supporting with their money.

It's the same with me. I just said I wouldn't buy Yotei anymore, I never called for the dev to fired. I'm just exercising my right not to support a company that condones that kind of behavior. If they choose to get rid of her because they think she hurt the company's image, then that's on them, but I certainly didn't ask them to, nor would I.

That's the difference, we're not actively trying to dox and get people fired and ruin their lives like the mentally ill degenerates, we're just voting with our wallets and getting the word out, that's all.

 

[Radical_3d]

there is a saying in Brazil that goes like "one thing is one thing, another thing is another thing", that means...

Devs putting their political view on a fictional game is one thing, Devs making absurd statement about a real life assassination while having the company name at full display at their profile is another thing.

I'd say even more: devs outing their political views on a fictional game is enriching if done properly regardless of the views of their audience. Most artist and art are politically progressive and I've enjoyed movies, music, books and games for most of my life. Even in this crazy new era of post 90s peak humanity.

You even should be able to mock the death of someone because being morally corrupt and an objective piece of shit with a mouth/keyboard. For such is the freedom of speech. But what you can't do without employment consequences is doing so with the name of the company on you bloody profile.