What did Sucker Punch work on for 5 years?

Modern game dev sadly.
Waste as much time as possible, WFH, only part time, no more crunch (bohoo you have to work overtime, cry me a river šŸ™„)
 
They'll be working on an unannounced title, I think a much smaller team are working on this as most of the core tech and many of the assets they can reuse.
 
Syphon Filter said:
rofif rofif the game looks like shit and its woke garbage as well.
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LCHkEy5.png
 
Scrawnton said:
First off, I already said Retro crapped the bed so I don't now why you're preaching about retro. I was just refuting your claim that they went 11 years without a release.
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Because they did? It's funny that you keep making excuses for them or EPD Tokyo bringing up remasters or expansions, but are also pushing the narrative of SP spending 5 years on Yotei, as if Legends, Director's Cut and Iki Island did not exist. You need to, at least, hold everyone at the same standard.
Scrawnton said:
Also, you keep calling releases "coat of paint" as if GoY isn't highly iterative and reuses assets. Hell, you could argue Sucker Punch spent four years on a coat of paint.
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And I'm the one arguing in bad faith? It's quite exactly what it is, it's a step above of simply porting a game to another console. And you keep ignoring the fact a lot of the remaster was outsourced. Check the game's credits, they're out there.
Scrawnton said:
The premise of this thread really got you triggered.
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Yes yes, pulling shit out of my ass, arguing in bad faith, preaching, triggered. We get it, shut up already, lol.
Scrawnton said:
Also, to assume a studio (whose last reported headcount was 160 in 2020) didn't grow as they began work on a new game for a new console and to base your entire argument on it is foolish. You're talking out of your ass and bending reality to make Sucker Punch look good while trying to drag down other developers. Sucker punch was 160 as of 2020 and monolith was 299 as of December 2024. Trying to pretend sucker punch is half of Monolith still when a quick Google search pegs them around 260 is arguing in bad faith.
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I clearly stated that growing up to a +100 employee count is highly unlikely in that timeframe, especially as they've rarely been hiring, I never stated that they literally never grew up since then.
It's not quite literally half the size, but what's your point? It's still a big difference and changes nothing about the argument.
I'm not even trying to drag down Monolith Soft, I still think it's a pretty fine output even at that employee count. You're the one trying too hard on draging down Sucker Punch for a roughly similar output while being way smaller.
 
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Part of the delay is that Yotei started out as Tsushima 2, a direct sequel, but the story was completely changed to an LGBT girlboss protagonist after they brought on Sweet Baby rejects as "writers", some of which worked on Dragon Age The Veilguard which should tell you everything you need to know.
 
Boss Mog said:
Part of the delay is that Yotei started out as Tsushima 2, a direct sequel, but the story was completely changed to an LGBT girlboss protagonist after they brought on Sweet Baby rejects as "writers", some of which worked on Dragon Age The Veilguard which should tell you everything you need to know.
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Who reported that exactly? Somebody reliable with trusted inside sources? Or some rando on YouTube?
 
Zathalus said:
Who reported that exactly? Somebody reliable with trusted inside sources? Or some rando on YouTube?
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If I remember correctly it was one of the ragebaiters on YT. Not really a trusted source imo so it's worth taking with a grain of salt. But yeah, I remember that their report said something in a lines of a direct sequel with Jin as a protagonist and being about him forming a group of Ghosts and becoming a leader, kinda like AC: Brotherhood. Or something like that
 
ElFenomeno said:
After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years? What NEW features required 5 years?

Lets break it down.
Game engine and graphics? No, same engine, graphics barely evolved
AI / Physics / Fire/ Fluids simulation - No
Art style - no, this was done.
Music/OST - this can't take so many years.
Story writing - its no Godfather right? Classic revenge story.
World/missions design - done in the 1st game. This barely adds anything truly meaningful. Repetitive open world grinding.

Does motion capture, voice acting take years upon years? What seriously happened?
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I understand that taking down GoY is a big thing on Gaf right now, but do we really need a new thread every time? Aren't the existing forum discussions sufficient?
I don't want to stifle discussions, and I don't want to offend anyone, but I think it would be better if these discussions were consolidated more.

Just my humble opinion. :messenger_relieved:
 
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Their cry corners and emotional safe spaces.

Also their pronouns change on the fly so they have to address that every morning.
 
Gamer79 said:
Their cry corners and emotional safe spaces.

Also their pronouns change on the fly so they have to address that every morning.
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They have a land acknowledgement and pronouns ceremony every morning as the salute the flag, the trans flag.
 
kat_on_the_roof said:
I understand that taking down GoY is a big thing on Gaf right now, but do we really need a new thread every time? Aren't the existing forum discussions sufficient?
I don't want to stifle discussions, and I don't want to offend anyone, but I think it would be better if these discussions were consolidated more.

Just my humble opinion. :messenger_relieved:
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This thread is from July 11th...
 
I like to think this game was "done" like 18 months ago and they've been just polishing the shit out of it. I expect this to be an exceptionally high quality release with superb gameplay. Yeah, graphics have not improved that much, but I'm sure the gameƤing part of this game is a 9/10 at least.
 
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Dazraell said:
If I remember correctly it was one of the ragebaiters on YT. Not really a trusted source imo so it's worth taking with a grain of salt. But yeah, I remember that their report said something in a lines of a direct sequel with Jin as a protagonist and being about him forming a group of Ghosts and becoming a leader, kinda like AC: Brotherhood. Or something like that
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I suspected as much. I'm not even sure where this idea that this game took so long to develop came from, they started full production in 2021. That's 4 years. Studio size is 160 people.
 
Zathalus said:
I suspected as much. I'm not even sure where this idea that this game took so long to develop came from, they started full production in 2021. That's 4 years. Studio size is 160 people.
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This is just my opinion but I wouldn't be surprised if that report was just a guesswork what that youtuber thought players who are disappointed would like more than what was announced, making that report easier to sell. That's unfortunately a quite common thing with "leaks" you can find online
 
ElFenomeno said:
After watching the Yotei reveal, I was stunned as to what did this studio worked for 5 years? What NEW features required 5 years?

Lets break it down.
Game engine and graphics? No, same engine, graphics barely evolved
AI / Physics / Fire/ Fluids simulation - No
Art style - no, this was done.
Music/OST - this can't take so many years.
Story writing - its no Godfather right? Classic revenge story.
World/missions design - done in the 1st game. This barely adds anything truly meaningful. Repetitive open world grinding.

Does motion capture, voice acting take years upon years? What seriously happened?
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Activism
 
I don't doubt Yotei will be a cool game, but it feels we have a Spider-Man 2 situation here with a lesser sequel. I'll skip it for those reasons alone. The activism is just cherry on top of it all.
 
Tsushima, for me, the most incredibly polished, beautiful 7/10 game ever made.

Positives -

+ Gorgeous environments
+ Silky smooth control
+ Diegetic world navigation

But it was brought down by the story (lame) and Jin himself, who is such a weak protagonist. I find Aloy to be totally unlikable but at least I have feelings about her. Jin is about as interesting as a piece of paper.

This was clearly a result of them ripping a morality system out of the game deep into development. He's a blank-slate so you can take him into the direction of samurai/ninja and it works -- I think this ripped out morality system also negative affected the gameplay. Having access to all samurai skills and all ninja skills makes Jin extremely overpowered. By the end of the game you're throwing black powder grenades and glassing legions of mongols at once...balancing on tight ropes in full plate samurai armor...it's a little silly.

It's a flawed game, but the bones have so much room for improvement. I cannot wait to see where they go with a totally new character/story/gameplay systems that aren't tied to a non-existent morality system.
 
PurePlatinum said:
Tsushima, for me, the most incredibly polished, beautiful 7/10 game ever made.

Positives -

+ Gorgeous environments
+ Silky smooth control
+ Diegetic world navigation

But it was brought down by the story (lame) and Jin himself, who is such a weak protagonist. I find Aloy to be totally unlikable but at least I have feelings about her. Jin is about as interesting as a piece of paper.

This was clearly a result of them ripping a morality system out of the game deep into development. He's a blank-slate so you can take him into the direction of samurai/ninja and it works -- I think this ripped out morality system also negative affected the gameplay. Having access to all samurai skills and all ninja skills makes Jin extremely overpowered. By the end of the game you're throwing black powder grenades and glassing legions of mongols at once...balancing on tight ropes in full plate samurai armor...it's a little silly.

It's a flawed game, but the bones have so much room for improvement. I cannot wait to see where they go with a totally new character/story/gameplay systems that aren't tied to a non-existent morality system.
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Big agree with the beautiful 7/10 comment. By the end of the game your character is OP, and instead of taking on 4 idiot AIs that stand around waiting their turn to attack, you can take on 12.
 
Had try try to work around the actresses antifa activism schedule to finish motion capping. Took a while.
 
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Can somebody help me imagine how to say something.

In Ghosts of Tsushima when you did a move, it indexes your character against your opponent and makes sure that both movements match up. I'm not sure if hit detection is done or if the game just automatically assumes moves will land, but when you do a move it kinda locks you into an animation and the person your are fighting so there is no chaos in gameplay. Like there is no errant blow that accidentally hit the enemy in the head and did major damage. Instead it is like the combat motions themselves are scripted once you enter the buttons and the npc starts the dance with your character.

In Dark Souls/Elden Ring, when you swing it is based on the animation for the weapon and totally agnostic about what your enemy is doing. You can swing wildly and as long as the tip of your sword accidentally contacts something it will count as a hit. Player and NPC animations are each independent. Moves often whiff or miss completely. You can do your full move set against empty air.

I really think games like the first above are shit and games like the second are the only way to truely make a good, real action game. Way 2 is the dream and way 1 is boring and lazy in every way.

My question is how can I simply describe this in modern gaming terms without having to write all that out?
 
PurePlatinum said:
Tsushima, for me, the most incredibly polished, beautiful 7/10 game ever made.

Positives -

+ Gorgeous environments
+ Silky smooth control
+ Diegetic world navigation

But it was brought down by the story (lame) and Jin himself, who is such a weak protagonist. I find Aloy to be totally unlikable but at least I have feelings about her. Jin is about as interesting as a piece of paper.

This was clearly a result of them ripping a morality system out of the game deep into development. He's a blank-slate so you can take him into the direction of samurai/ninja and it works -- I think this ripped out morality system also negative affected the gameplay. Having access to all samurai skills and all ninja skills makes Jin extremely overpowered. By the end of the game you're throwing black powder grenades and glassing legions of mongols at once...balancing on tight ropes in full plate samurai armor...it's a little silly.

It's a flawed game, but the bones have so much room for improvement. I cannot wait to see where they go with a totally new character/story/gameplay systems that aren't tied to a non-existent morality system.
Click to expand...
For me Tsushima was a 9 out of 10 easily but I get your point. The game itself was the typical 3d open world mapfucker but it was so polished it basically starstruck me from beginning to end.
 
Zacfoldor said:
Can somebody help me imagine how to say something.

In Ghosts of Tsushima when you did a move, it indexes your character against your opponent and makes sure that both movements match up. I'm not sure if hit detection is done or if the game just automatically assumes moves will land, but when you do a move it kinda locks you into an animation and the person your are fighting so there is no chaos in gameplay. Like there is no errant blow that accidentally hit the enemy in the head and did major damage. Instead it is like the combat motions themselves are scripted once you enter the buttons and the npc starts the dance with your character.

In Dark Souls/Elden Ring, when you swing it is based on the animation for the weapon and totally agnostic about what your enemy is doing. You can swing wildly and as long as the tip of your sword accidentally contacts something it will count as a hit. Player and NPC animations are each independent. Moves often whiff or miss completely. You can do your full move set against empty air.

I really think games like the first above are shit and games like the second are the only way to truely make a good, real action game. Way 2 is the dream and way 1 is boring and lazy in every way.

My question is how can I simply describe this in modern gaming terms without having to write all that out?
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I've seen a God of War dev talk where the designers called this combat design "suck to target" which seems very apt. I agree with you
 
Zacfoldor said:
Can somebody help me imagine how to say something.

In Ghosts of Tsushima when you did a move, it indexes your character against your opponent and makes sure that both movements match up. I'm not sure if hit detection is done or if the game just automatically assumes moves will land, but when you do a move it kinda locks you into an animation and the person your are fighting so there is no chaos in gameplay. Like there is no errant blow that accidentally hit the enemy in the head and did major damage. Instead it is like the combat motions themselves are scripted once you enter the buttons and the npc starts the dance with your character.

In Dark Souls/Elden Ring, when you swing it is based on the animation for the weapon and totally agnostic about what your enemy is doing. You can swing wildly and as long as the tip of your sword accidentally contacts something it will count as a hit. Player and NPC animations are each independent. Moves often whiff or miss completely. You can do your full move set against empty air.

I really think games like the first above are shit and games like the second are the only way to truely make a good, real action game. Way 2 is the dream and way 1 is boring and lazy in every way.

My question is how can I simply describe this in modern gaming terms without having to write all that out?
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I think it is helpful to write it out.

Ngl Sekiro and Nioh which I played after GOT ruined that style for me.

edit: if you watch Madden videos, they often talk about something like this. The old Madden games were built around physics where every player was a circle where physics acted on it. At some point they switched to an animation-based system and that's why a lot of people say the new games suck. Because it feels fake and scripted because the game determines if something is going to happen and then the animation occurs even if it is janky as hell.
 
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Zacfoldor said:
Can somebody help me imagine how to say something.

In Ghosts of Tsushima when you did a move, it indexes your character against your opponent and makes sure that both movements match up. I'm not sure if hit detection is done or if the game just automatically assumes moves will land, but when you do a move it kinda locks you into an animation and the person your are fighting so there is no chaos in gameplay. Like there is no errant blow that accidentally hit the enemy in the head and did major damage. Instead it is like the combat motions themselves are scripted once you enter the buttons and the npc starts the dance with your character.

In Dark Souls/Elden Ring, when you swing it is based on the animation for the weapon and totally agnostic about what your enemy is doing. You can swing wildly and as long as the tip of your sword accidentally contacts something it will count as a hit. Player and NPC animations are each independent. Moves often whiff or miss completely. You can do your full move set against empty air.

I really think games like the first above are shit and games like the second are the only way to truely make a good, real action game. Way 2 is the dream and way 1 is boring and lazy in every way.

My question is how can I simply describe this in modern gaming terms without having to write all that out?
Click to expand...

You can have a preference of course, but to call the first way lazy is wrong imo.
I'd say it requires more work from the devs than the second way, as they have to make it look realistic and have a nice flow.

L Let's also nor forget that the Elder Scrolls games use the second way and it feels unnatural and boring.
 
Zacfoldor said:
Can somebody help me imagine how to say something.

In Ghosts of Tsushima when you did a move, it indexes your character against your opponent and makes sure that both movements match up. I'm not sure if hit detection is done or if the game just automatically assumes moves will land, but when you do a move it kinda locks you into an animation and the person your are fighting so there is no chaos in gameplay. Like there is no errant blow that accidentally hit the enemy in the head and did major damage. Instead it is like the combat motions themselves are scripted once you enter the buttons and the npc starts the dance with your character.

In Dark Souls/Elden Ring, when you swing it is based on the animation for the weapon and totally agnostic about what your enemy is doing. You can swing wildly and as long as the tip of your sword accidentally contacts something it will count as a hit. Player and NPC animations are each independent. Moves often whiff or miss completely. You can do your full move set against empty air.

I really think games like the first above are shit and games like the second are the only way to truely make a good, real action game. Way 2 is the dream and way 1 is boring and lazy in every way.

My question is how can I simply describe this in modern gaming terms without having to write all that out?
Click to expand...

You're talking about a combat system that uses fixed animation cues, like the older Assassin's Creed games. Yea, they allow for very cinematic looking battles but you don't have as much freedom or strategy for unique offense and defense like you would a character action game like Bayonetta or a Souls-like game.
 
There were TONS of Antifa rallies and organizing can't be making video games when you are plotting murder of Nazis
 
Yep, they totally could have uploaded Ghosts of Tsushima to ChatGPT, said make another of these Samurai yarns, revenge story, 60 hours content, make it a gurl this time, and boom! None of this five years biznitch.

:pie_eyeroll:
 
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