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[ElFenomeno]

Isnt it hilarious how happily they send and troops to Greenland, but drag their foot and delay and blame USA with Ukraine. Trump should look at it and say oh you actually can send ships and troops. Good luck then. And pull out from Ukraine.

 

[winjer]

Isnt it hilarious how happily they send and troops to Greenland, but drag their foot and delay and blame USA with Ukraine. Trump should look at it and say oh you actually can send ships and troops. Good luck then. And pull out from Ukraine.

Denmark is a part of the EU and NATO. Ukraine is not.
Still, the EU has send tens Billions of Euros in economic aid and military equipment.
And yes, the USA has responsibilities in protecting Ukraine from Russia, because the USA promised to do so if Ukraine relinquished their nuclear weapons.

 

[Ellis]

You want to them to send troops to Ukraine and start WW3?

That's the thing, there is zero risk of such a thing ever happening if we were to send troops into Ukraine.

Russia is all talk. They're not equipped to even counter a downsized UK military, let alone France, US, and others joining the fold. They'd get steamrolled very quickly.

We should have called their bluff years ago.

 

[Bojji]

Denmark is a part of the EU and NATO. Ukraine is not.
Still, the EU has send tens Billions of Euros in economic aid and military equipment.
And yes, the USA has responsibilities in protecting Ukraine from Russia, because the USA promised to do so if Ukraine relinquished their nuclear weapons.

More than US even:

Trump fans will believe anything from right wing grifters so it's no surprise that people think that EU does jack shit to help Ukraine. Not to mention everyone forgot about Budapest Memorandum you talked about:

That's the thing, there is zero risk of such a thing ever happening if we were to send troops into Ukraine.

Russia is all talk. They're not equipped to even counter a downsized UK military, let alone France, US, and others joining the fold. They'd get steamrolled very quickly.

We should have called their bluff years ago.

I agree that Russian troops would most likely run away in that situation. BUT this would be official NATO vs. Russia war and who knows how mentally sane Putin really is...

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

because the USA promised to do so if Ukraine relinquished their nuclear weapons.

This is usually (and conveniently) forgotten. The whole west is to blame for the Ukraine debacle. Disarming them was a tragic error, almost as big as cozing up to Russia in the stupid belief that they would become a liberal democracy or whatever delusion western leaders had in mind. The West must understand that there are other cultures that don't share our values and will NEVER do no matter how many "gifts" you promise them. This applies to Russia, the Muslim world and others.

 

[winjer]

This is usually (and conveniently) forgotten. The whole west is to blame for the Ukraine debacle. Disarming them was a tragic error, almost as big as cozing up to Russia in the stupid belief that they would become a liberal democracy or whatever delusion western leaders had in mind. The West must understand that there are other cultures that don't share our values and will NEVER do no matter how many "gifts" you promise them. This applies to Russia, the Muslim world and others.

It's not just the West. Russia also promised to guaranty Ukraine's security and sovereignty if they relinquished their nuclear weapons.
But Russia was already planning on invading Ukraine, so lying was necessary for that.
The West was stupid for believing Russia, again, despite all of their constant lies. And this is the result.

 

[Warspite]

This is usually (and conveniently) forgotten. The whole west is to blame for the Ukraine debacle. Disarming them was a tragic error, almost as big as cozing up to Russia in the stupid belief that they would become a liberal democracy or whatever delusion western leaders had in mind. The West must understand that there are other cultures that don't share our values and will NEVER do no matter how many "gifts" you promise them. This applies to Russia, the Muslim world and others.

It's not just the West. Russia also promised to guaranty Ukraine's security and sovereignty if they relinquished their nuclear weapons.
But Russia was already planning on invading Ukraine, so lying was necessary for that.
The West was stupid for believing Russia, again, despite all of their constant lies. And this is the result.

Absolutely but it was more than that, it was the appeasement, it the political can kicking, it was taking the easy route at every option, the peace dividends leading to disarmament.

Ukraine (which in all fairness is a different matter from this thread) is the end result of a lot of bad decisions made over the last 26 years, the exceptional poor politicians/leaders (on both sides) we have had since the 90s have led their people to this, to where they "monitor" people fighting for their freedom getting slaughtered.

 

[StueyDuck]

Isnt it hilarious how happily they send and troops to Greenland, but drag their foot and delay and blame USA with Ukraine. Trump should look at it and say oh you actually can send ships and troops. Good luck then. And pull out from Ukraine.

Like all things its money. EU make a pretty penny from the infinite war, and EU would lose money by losing Greenland.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Denmark is a part of the EU and NATO. Ukraine is not.
Still, the EU has send tens Billions of Euros in economic aid and military equipment.
And yes, the USA has responsibilities in protecting Ukraine from Russia, because the USA promised to do so if Ukraine relinquished their nuclear weapons.

Was it the Danes who gave up their F16's and Artillery to Ukraine?

 

[winjer]

Was it the Danes who gave up their F16's and Artillery to Ukraine?

Danish support for Ukraine

Read more about Denmark's support for Ukraine after Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. The information on this page will be updated on an ongoing basis.

um.dk

Denmark shows solidarity with Ukraine through multifaceted and long-term support provided bilaterally and in concert with our partners and allies. Since the outbreak of the war, Danish support to Ukraine amounts to approx. EUR 9.5 billion in military support and approx. EUR 959 million in civilian contributions. Of the civilian support, approx. EUR 668 mil. has been granted, and approx. EUR 291 mil. has been committed to guarantees and guarantee schemes. The Danish support to Ukraine excludes Danish support via the EU.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Go ahead, try and attack the most powerful navy the world has ever seen.

 

[P:axMagellanic]

Danish support for Ukraine

Read more about Denmark's support for Ukraine after Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. The information on this page will be updated on an ongoing basis.

um.dk

Just did a search.

'Denmark donated all its 19 French CAESAR self-propelled howitzers and restored M109A3 howitzers from storage, along with some Soviet-era 2S1 Gvozdika howitzers.'

And 12 of 19 F16's have been delivered.

It's so rotten how they're being treated

 

[John Marston]

I gotta stop lurking this thread.
Too much info for my small brain.

 

[Critical Hit]

I agree that Russian troops would most likely run away in that situation.

I doubt it. Europe cannot win the war on its own (without the US or NATO/Turkey) at this point, and besides, it is not doing anything significant to change the situation. It would be foolish to draw conclusions based on Ukraine — the situation is nowhere near as serious as mobilization on the scale of WW II.

 

[Bojji]

I doubt it. Europe cannot win the war on its own (without the US or NATO/Turkey) at this point, and besides, it is not doing anything significant to change the situation. It would be foolish to draw conclusions based on Ukraine — the situation is nowhere near as serious as mobilization on the scale of WW II.

So far one small country stopped almighty Russian army for 4 years (their advancements are slow). How would Europe not be able to win with Russia?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So far one small country stopped almighty Russian army for 4 years (they advancements are slow). How would Europe not be able to win with Russia?

Biggest obstacle of the EU are themselves. If they actually got their shit together and organised they'd actually be a capable superpower.

 

[Baemono]

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[DeepEnigma]

So far one small country stopped almighty Russian army for 4 years (they advancements are slow). How would Europe not be able to win with Russia?

On their own? No, no they did not.

 

[Critical Hit]

So far one small country stopped almighty Russian army for 4 years (they advancements are slow). How would Europe not be able to win with Russia?

As I've said — because it is not the "almighty Russian army" that is fighting in Ukraine, but only a part and not particularly ideological. This is Putin's war, not Russia's. Despite all his control, Putin does not have complete power over people's minds — almost no one wants to fight for him or his ideas, so they mostly fight for money. Fighting for one's own country is a completely different situation (both in terms of people and the weapons used). And even without mentioning the production of weapons/ammunition, Europeans are not even adopting Ukrainian experience at present — they do not know how to fight in conditions of total drone dominance. You may not like Trump, but he hinted at this during his first term, and no one listened to him then.

 

[Bojji]

Biggest obstacle of the EU are themselves. If they actually got their shit together and organised they'd actually be a capable superpower.

Exactly. But EU is incapable of doing that sadly.

On their own? No, no they did not.

With massive financial and equipment help. But Ukrainians are personally fighting there with no help from western armies.

 

[kruis]

Group psychosis would be more accurate. Westerners overwhelmingly support secularism, at least in Europe, but when it comes to islam their principles go out the window. Woke tolerance has become a psychotic disorder.

It's how progressive brains work. Their first instinct is to choose the side of the oppressed or a minority in every situation. Their second instinct is to side against the western world and support non westerners.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Exactly. But EU is incapable of doing that sadly.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Maybe they'll fine them a couple millie.

 

[Bojji]

They will have the best seats when Russian army enters Berlin.

 

[JackHanma]

The present mass media don't represent the free market. Actually, they are against it. That's why they attack their competition ferociously. Just see what happens when some youtuber or random citizen dares report scandals they don't even talk about. They don't do any actual journalist job, just repeat official talking points. COVID was the paradigm of this, with hundreds of retards with a journalist license NOT EVEN ASKING what was going on in a certain max security lab in Wuhan. That year the media went full masks off and quit pretending they were actual reporters.

It's not that they are simply "biased", they are funded by leftist parties and globalists groups. The mass media, in general, have become an institution whose purpose is to belong to a superior caste just like the Church did in the past.

Best example of this I can remember during Covid was the mainstream local news reporting about the overflowing of patients in a nearby hospital. The Hospital was so "flooded" with patients that the sick needed to be "triaged" in the parking lot. A couple women went to that hospital with their phone cameras and hospital was empty.

 

[JackHanma]

They will have the best seats when Russian army enters Berlin.

I don't think that will ever happen, at least not in the foreseeable future. A lot of people underestimate Russia, but Ukraine has (or had) the largest and best equipped army in Europe. Consider the Western technology Ukraine has received over the last five - six years. Going back to 2005, Ukrainian armed forces have been getting trained by NATO advisors. There were joint military exercises aimed against Russia by Ukraine and Georgia as early as 2008. I don't necessarily side with Ukraine during this conflict (I don't believe in the sincerity of Zelensky) but Russia has its hands full. From a historic context Russia has been underestimated in the past. Despite achieving victory in the winter war against Finland in 1940, Soviet forces performed poorly. As Hitler said, "once we kick the door in, the whole rotten structure will come crumbling". Venezuela and Iran are one thing, Russia and China are entirely another. I don't think we should be fighting Russians, we should be allied with Orthodox Christians, unfortunately our governments hate Christianity and any of our older traditions.

 

[jason10mm]

Could be a diversion. This admin loves the element of surprise. So they leak something and will do something else.

TDS being what it is, Trump could say "I'm not ready for anything, we are going to do nothing!" and the MSM/DNC would IMMEDIATELY complain and say "we gotta go in NOW!" just to say the opposite of whatever he says. That he doesn't play this card more often is weird, I think he's kinda blind to exploiting it.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I don't think that will ever happen, at least not in the foreseeable future. A lot of people underestimate Russia, but Ukraine has (or had) the largest and best equipped army in Europe. Consider the Western technology Ukraine has received over the last five - six years. Going back to 2005, Ukrainian armed forces have been getting trained by NATO advisors. There were joint military exercises aimed against Russia by Ukraine and Georgia as early as 2008. I don't necessarily side with Ukraine during this conflict (I don't believe in the sincerity of Zelensky) but Russia has its hands full. From a historic context Russia has been underestimated in the past. Despite achieving victory in the winter war against Finland in 1940, Soviet forces performed poorly. As Hitler said, "once we kick the door in, the whole rotten structure will come crumbling". Venezuela and Iran are one thing, Russia and China are entirely another. I don't think we should be fighting Russians, we should be allied with Orthodox Christians, unfortunately our governments hate Christianity and any of our older traditions.

The modern wars are basically a deadlock if not won immediately. Then they turn into a trench warfare with whose side will grow tired faster. Just like WW1, eventually some tool will appear that will break a balance. It hasn't appeared yet.

Russian's military advantage has always been the vast territory and human resources. Over and over again they have been throwing bodies at problems or allowed foreign forces getting stuck on their land.

Also the Orthodox Church is a conglomerate of multiple churches.

 

[Bojji]

I don't think we should be fighting Russians, we should be allied with Orthodox Christians, unfortunately our governments hate Christianity and any of our older traditions.

I agree that this is what should happen. But in reality Russia will always be the enemy of every country around them, their mentality didn't change since Muskovy and is based on conquest. Not much to do with any religion (USSA was atheistic state).

 

[JackHanma]

The modern wars are basically a deadlock if not won immediately. Then they turn into a trench warfare with whose side will grow tired faster. Just like WW1, eventually some tool will appear that will break a balance. It hasn't appeared yet.

The implementation of drone warfare has redefined that conflict and perhaps 21st Century conflict as a whole. The entire battlefield is under surveillance at all times by both sides. Breakouts are extremely hard making the movements of large formations almost suicidal. I have nothing but respect for the Russian and Ukrainian men fighting in this conflict, it is absolute hell.

 

[Critical Hit]

Despite achieving victory in the winter war against Finland in 1940, Soviet forces performed poorly.

So they retreated from the nazis at first, but then the situation changed.

I don't necessarily side with Ukraine during this conflict (I don't believe in the sincerity of Zelensky)

What does Zelensky have to do with it? From a human perspective, this is a completely obscene colonial war. And even from a geopolitical perspective, it's a terrible job/performance.

The modern wars are basically a deadlock if not won immediately.

Not necessarily, if there is a significant advantage in technology or strength. Another thing is that even winning a war does not always mean victory, because in the end you still have to deal with the partisans.

 

[simpatico]

Exactly. But EU is incapable of doing that sadly.



With massive financial and equipment help. But Ukrainians are personally fighting there with no help from western armies.

The comms support should absolutely not be overlooked. Having access to the best comms/intel on earth is an absolutely massive advantage.

 

[JackHanma]

So they retreated from the nazis at first, but then the situation changed.


What does Zelensky have to do with it? From a human perspective, this is a completely obscene colonial war. And even from a geopolitical perspective, it's a terrible job/performance.


Not necessarily, if there is a significant advantage in technology or strength. Another thing is that even winning a war does not always mean victory, because in the end you still have to deal with the partisans.

Russia has a right to protect its borders. Colonial war? Sure, but if Canada or Mexico was thinking about allying with China and Russia you can bet your ass that the United States would have no problems invading those countries to protect its regional interests. Russia has been provoked by NATO for years, going back to to 2005, why shouldn't they defend their interests like any other nation? As for Zelensky, his cronies getting busting for embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars doesn't sit right with me, especially when his government kidnaps regular joes off the street and sends them to the meat grinder with no training.

It might appear like a terrible performance but the Russians are now experts in drone warfare and have experience fighting against Western tactics/technology.

And they didn't retreat from the Nazis at first, the Wehrmacht absolutely battered them, capturing whole armies in the process. Despite that, even with the early successes, the regular German infantryman was impressed by the Russians tenacity. Read about the capture of Sevastopol for example. Trust me when I say this, a war between Russia and the United States would be a global catastrophe.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Not necessarily, if there is a significant advantage in technology or strength. Another thing is that even winning a war does not always mean victory, because in the end you still have to deal with the partisans.

If there is a significant advantage, then they will be won almost immediately. That's the whole point. Otherwise it turns into a tug of war.

The implementation of drone warfare has redefined that conflict and perhaps 21st Century conflict as a whole. The entire battlefield is under surveillance at all times by both sides. Breakouts are extremely hard making the movements of large formations almost suicidal.

Exactly. Just like with a trench warfare in the past - now drones are essentially those "trenches". In the last century the common notion was that those who control the skies, win. But in Russia-Ukraine war both sides control the skies. Now what?

 

[Bojji]

Russia has a right to protect its borders. Colonial war? Sure, but if Canada or Mexico was thinking about allying with China and Russia you can bet your ass that the United States would have no problems invading those countries to protect its regional interests. Russia has been provoked by NATO for years, going back to to 2005, why shouldn't they defend their interests like any other nation? As for Zelensky, his cronies getting busting for embezzling hundreds of millions of dollars doesn't sit right with me, especially when his government kidnaps regular joes off the street and sends them to the meat grinder with no training.

It might appear like a terrible performance but the Russians are now experts in drone warfare and have experience fighting against Western tactics/technology.

And they didn't retreat from the Nazis at first, the Wehrmacht absolutely battered them, capturing whole armies in the process. Despite that, even with the early successes, the regular German infantryman was impressed by the Russians tenacity. Read about the capture of Sevastopol for example. Trust me when I say this, a war between Russia and the United States would be a global catastrophe.

Russia was never threatened by NATO expansion, NATO expansion happened because Russia was threatening everyone around them.

 

[JackHanma]

If there is a significant advantage, then they will be won almost immediately. That's the whole point. Otherwise it turns into a tug of war.


Exactly. Just like with a trench warfare in the past - now drones are essentially those "trenches". In the last century the common notion was that those who control the skies, win. But in Russia-Ukraine war both sides control the skies. Now what?

It will ultimately conclude based on population size and attrition. The Ukrainians have already reorganized their army multiple times, the Russians only once. Difficult to predict the outcome decisively but based on how many cities the Russians have captured the advantage right now lays with them.

 

[simpatico]

It gets thrown around a lot as a joke, but the Canadian federal gov appears to be so weak that allowing them to remain sovereign is a luxury the US can no longer afford. Shudder to think what is already installed north of the border.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

It will ultimately conclude based on population size and attrition. The Ukrainians have already reorganized their army multiple times, the Russians only once. Difficult to predict the outcome decisively but based on how many cities the Russians have captured the advantage right now lays with them.

Maybe, but the point is that the new era of wars won't be the same as during the 20th century. No tank marches, no mass troop deployment.

 

[JackHanma]

Russia was never threatened by NATO expansion, NATO expansion happened because Russia was threatening everyone around them.

Thanks for the video, I will watch it later tonight. It was actually nice to have balanced conversation on this topic.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[JackHanma]

It gets thrown around a lot as a joke, but the Canadian federal gov appears to be so weak that allowing them to remain sovereign is a luxury the US can no longer afford. Shudder to think what is already installed north of the border.

Sad that this was the same nation that sent elite troops into Vimy Ridge, Dieppe, Juno beach, and that ultimately largely freed Holland from the Germans.

 

[Trilobit]

EU: "monitoring the situation"



Guess they're stuck reading the NeoGAF thread too.

Monitor lizard people.

 

[Madonis]

Iran wants to negotiate, but for once....I hope the Trump administration does no such thing.

 

[EviLore]

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

It gets thrown around a lot as a joke, but the Canadian federal gov appears to be so weak that allowing them to remain sovereign is a luxury the US can no longer afford. Shudder to think what is already installed north of the border.

Black bag Starmer too

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Biggest obstacle of the EU are themselves. If they actually got their shit together and organised they'd actually be a capable superpower.

There will never be a "United States of Europe" because the individual nations of Europe simply don't want that. All the European nations are their own countries with centuries of history, they'll never just allow themselves to become provinces of some grand unified European nation-state. This is why the EU is fundamentally a failure in execution, the concept sounded nice but the result has been absolutely abysmal

The EU should be dissolved, period

 

[EviLore]

 

[simpatico]

Sad that this was the same nation that sent elite troops into Vimy Ridge, Dieppe, Juno beach, and that ultimately largely freed Holland from the Germans.

Undefeatable militarily, but the West was completely unprepared for cable TV, credit cards and MTV.

 

[JackHanma]

Undefeatable militarily, but the West was completely unprepared for cable TV, credit cards and MTV.

And the flooding of their nations with peoples that are incompatible with their way of life. As Trudeau said, Canada is a "post national state". It doesn't have a history nor a defined "people". Absolutely wretched what has become of Canada, and the West in general.