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[Fabieter]

You can go check a dictionary to see what masochism (and sadistic) means. And then apply it to badly designed matchmaking in MP games that fail to match you with people of your same skill, often resulting on experiences that only masochist or sadistic people enjoy.

That's design. Its called engagement based matchmaking.

 

[rodrigolfp]

You can go check a dictionary to see what masochism (and sadistic) means. And then apply it to badly designed matchmaking in MP games that fail to match you with people of your same skill, often resulting on experiences that only masochist or sadistic people enjoy.

Outside matchmaking, in terms of game design difficulty can be controlled way better in single player games (and in which in most cases players can edit in the game settings to have easy, normal or hard difficulty), so this is why in general they normally have a better balanced experience than MP games.

So you also lose/die in better balanced SP games and don't think it is also masochism at least to some extend... Doesn't make sense to me but whatever makes you happy.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The future should be to acknowledge many players don't want to play multiplayer and that proper single player modes should be implemented in all games.

I don't think people want to be alone. I think we're social animals that want to feel effective in our group. There's not many hermits on earth right now.

Or at least, implement PvE only modes.

And in the PvP modes, to implement a properly designed ELO based matchmaking system for ranked modes that only matches you to people of a (really) very similar skill, as some games like Street Fighter 6 or Heartstone successfully did, while tons of other ones miserably failed.

SBMM will die. It divides people up too much. The ideal is to keep 100% of the player base together and 100% of the player base feeling like the journey is both possible and worth it. SBMM belongs in the old era of design.

And well, to make sure the game has an option to mute the other players, and allow the basic communication with a couple button presses in a similar way of how Helldivers 2 does it to mark an objective, say 'follow me', 'hold on', 'thank you', 'gg' etc. Having predefined messages also helps the game localize them, taking down the language barrier and shitty mic issues in MP, and also as filter to insults/toxic stuff/etc.

Yup, all those things are pretty standard today.

 

[Danjin44]

I don't think people want to be alone. I think we're social animals that want to feel effective in our group. There's not many hermits on earth right now.

That's why you have real life friends and family you interact with, but when it comes to gaming I rather play alone without anyone interfering.

For me MP sucks all the fun out of video games.

If you play video game to socialize then good for you but it's not my reason why I play video games.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

That's why you have real life friends and family you interact with, but when it comes to gaming I rather play alone without anyone interfering.

I think the fact that you enjoy posting here tells you that you do derive some joy from social interaction. Obviously the last 30 years of competitive multi-player games wouldn't appeal to you. We'll see about the next 30...

For me MP sucks all the fun out of video games.

Until it doesn't.

If you play video game to socialize then good for you but it's not my reason why I play video games.

Look at the 2 pictures in the OP. We all play games for the same reason.

 

[Fabieter]

Until it doesn't.

So you think everyone will convert eventually?

 

[Danjin44]

I think the fact that you enjoy posting here tells you that you do derive some joy from social interaction. Obviously the last 30 years of competitive multi-player games wouldn't appeal to you. We'll see about the next 30...

It's not about not wanting "social interaction" it's about not wanting to "play video games with other people".

Yes I like socialize with my real life friends and family but gaming is my me time enjoying my favourite hobby.

Until it doesn't.

For you but not for me.

 

[yurinka]

That's design. Its called engagement based matchmaking.

No, it's called bad or broken game design, and the main reason of why most MP games lose most of their players in a few days.

 

[yurinka]

I don't think people want to be alone. I think we're social animals that want to feel effective in our group. There's not many hermits on earth right now.

I didn't say people want to be alone. I said many people prefers to play single player instead of MP. I

f something, the antisocial ones are the tryhards playing 24/7 competitive PvP games. And I don't want to spend 24/7 in a game because I have a social life.

SBMM will die.

SBMM belongs in the old era of design.

No, there are many successful competitive PvP games. And SBMM is the only way to match players with others of relatively similar skill, something required if they don't want to lose quick most of their players.

It divides people up too much. The ideal is to keep 100% of the player base together and 100% of the player base feeling like the journey is both possible and worth it.

No, everybody has different tastes and it's impossible to appeal everybody at the same time. Some people don't want SP, some people don't want MP. Inside MP some want PvE while others want PvP. Inside PvP some want casual and other want competitive/ranked. Different game modes (or different games) are needed for different player preferences.

Same goes with genres/subgenres/niches, and also third person vs first person, same goes with the theme & setting, or with the artstyle etc.

 

[BlueAlpaca]

Apex Legends:

- Enemy here
- Let's go here ( a mile away, all by himself)
- We're getting shot at
- Let's go here (still a mile away)
- We're down
- Let's go here (again a mile away)
- I'm being executed
- Let's go here (still a fucking mile away. No effort to return)
- Wraith is sending me to another dimension
- I'm looting here (a mile away)
- Later comes back to respawn... in the storm a mile away from the ring


And yes I still play Apex.

 

[KimDongHwan]

For me it's similar to why I dislike modern mobile gaming and that is that Multiplayer games and mobile games are balanced from the ground up to make you spend money which ends up costing far more than what single player games cost. On the other end, I really like that some good single player games on Steam cost like $10-$20 upfront cost and that's it, you can enjoy them to their fullest and move on.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I didn't say people want to be alone. I said many people prefers to play single player instead of MP.

I think most people who prefer SP still want to be part of a group, but they have had to settle for SP because MP has been held back by ice caps (see the poll options). Those ice caps are melting and people are migrating.

f something, the antisocial ones are the tryhards playing 24/7 competitive PvP games. And I don't want to spend 24/7 in a game because I have a social life.

Your complaints are valid when applied to old era, competitive style multi-player.

No, there are many successful competitive PvP games. And SBMM is the only way to match players with others of relatively similar skill, something required if they don't want to lose quick most of their players.

That all applies to old era design. We're legitimately going through a paradigm shift in multi-player right now. SBMM doesn't fit in a world that's not about old era, competitive design. This new era of design is about connecting players with different playstyles and different skill levels.

No, everybody has different tastes and it's impossible to appeal everybody at the same time. Some people don't want SP, some people don't want MP. Inside MP some want PvE while others want PvP. Inside PvP some want casual and other want competitive/ranked. Different game modes (or different games) are needed for different player preferences.

ARC Raiders is appealing to a wide group of players. It's making a lot of mistakes that will be corrected, either by Embark or by other developers on future titles. More and more gamers are being funneled to a smaller and smaller number of games.

Extraction and Survival are momentous genres in gaming.

It's not about not wanting "social interaction" it's about not wanting to "play video games with other people".

There are relatively few solo games in human history. Take a look at what the Egyptians were playing. Most people like to play with others. It's in our DNA.

Yes I like socialize with my real life friends and family but gaming is my me time enjoying my favourite hobby.

Learn the word "yet".

 

[Danjin44]

Learn the word "yet".

You also need to learn not everyone is like you. Just because you enjoy MP/GaaS games doesn't others will as well.

I will never ever going enjoy playing MP games in fact your threads making me hate MP games even more.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You also need to learn not everyone is like you. Just because you enjoy MP/GaaS games doesn't others will as well.

I will never ever going enjoy playing MP games in fact your threads making me hate MP games even more.

 

[yurinka]

Your complaints are valid when applied to old era, competitive style multi-player.

That all applies to old era design. We're legitimately going through a paradigm shift in multi-player right now. SBMM doesn't fit in a world that's not about old era, competitive design. This new era of design is about connecting players with different playstyles and different skill levels.

There isn't any paradigm shift right.

Since online MP became common a couple generations ago, most of the top grossing or most played games are competitive PvP (so skill based match making too, despite having a better or worst implementation in each game), and most of them are several years old games or yearly iterations of several years ago old concepts: Fortnite, LoL, Counter Strike 2, DOTA 2, Marvel Rivals, Apex Legends, CoD, Battlefield, PUBG, EA FC, NBA 2K, eFootball, Valorant, Rocket League, Rainbow Six Siege... They continue being PC or PS top grossing or top played games of the year.

Other top performing games are instead SP or coop games, as has been the case since many years ago. Other games combine in different ways SP and MP, or PvP and PvE.

ARC Raiders is appealing to a wide group of players.

Yes, but didn't invent anything and didn't change anything.

Extraction and Survival are momentous genres in gaming.

ARC Raiders released a couple months ago, had a great launch and still is on its launch peak, which will be over in a month or two and will go do to a more common CCU. That's all, just one top performing extraction shooter title as exception in a sea of top performing games of other genres.

Most of the other top performing or most played games aren't extraction shooters or survival games.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

There isn't any paradigm shift right.

Most of the top grossing or most played games are competitive PvP (so skill based match making too, despite having a better or worst implementation in each game), and most of them are several years old games or yearly iterations of several years ago old concepts: Fortnite, LoL, Counter Strike 2, DOTA 2, Marvel Rivals, Apex Legends, CoD, Battlefield, PUBG, EA FC, NBA 2K, eFootball, Valorant, Rocket League, Rainbow Six Siege. They continue being PC or PS top grossing or top played games of the year.

Paradigm shifts often take years, or decades to fully occur.

But some people see the early smartphone, the early automobile, Elvis Presley etc...and recognize the seismic shift before the masses.

That's what happening here. The old era of multi-player had a 30 year head start, so it's to be expected that in 2026, most of the top games are from that dying era.

What you'll start to see, if you haven't already, is new era multi-player releases outcompete old era multi-player releases. Concord vs ARC Raiders. Highguard (likely old era) vs Marathon. We're 3 - 5 years away from you hearing this from more mainstream places. Enjoy the sneak peak.

Other top performing games are instead SP or coop games, as has been the case since many years ago.

All the biggest breakout hits of the last 5+ years have been MP games with new era design philosophy. Marvel Rivals is the last breakout of the old era and that required the Marvel IP. Peak, ARC Raiders, and REPO outperformed it (ROI) with meaningless IP.

Yes, but didn't invent anything and didn't change anything.

It's a Mario 64 sized event. It changed everything. You might not see it for a few years due to 6+ year dev cycles, but it happened.

ARC Raiders released a couple months ago, had a great launch and still is on its launch peak, which will be over in a month or two and will go do to a more common CCU. That's all, just one top performing extraction shooter title as exception in a sea of top performing games of other genres.

They're all trying to figure out why it's still selling so good. Just need to read a few threads on NeoGAF. Marathon will outperform expectations despite having one foot stuck in the old era. This new stuff is that potent.

Most of the other top performing or most played games aren't extraction shooters or survival games.

You have to be able to see a young Mike Tyson and say "That's the next heavyweight champion of the world". Old era design will continue to lose out to new era design.

 

[HRK69]

Playing COD4 and the first seasons of Overwatch was pretty magical, especially in a group. I had a lot of fun back then. I think I played Overwatch competitive almost every day for about a year with the same group.

Nowadays it feels like you have to search the internet just to understand what the meta is before you can even enjoy yourself

I think that's why I'm having more fun with single-player games now: I can play at my own pace, and that really helps with immersion

That said, I still like multiplayer games. I've played FIFA every year (except this one…), and I'm definitely interested in the extraction genre. I just don't think the genre is there yet, right now it all feels kind of pointless

 

[Randall365]

It depends why you like gaming doesn't it?

Personally I can be competitive in other areas of life - I like gaming as escapism and want to be bad at a game, but then learn it and come out on top - often with a narrative designed around me. My gaming time is limited and I do not want to waste it being beaten by kids/people with a ton of time to git gud.

IMO the number one problem online gaming has is that if it matched casual people up with each other, then it may be more fun, but inevitably if you are really good, then you will most likely enjoy beating down on noobs by going to low levels as much as testing your skills against good players.