Support NeoGAF

[BlackTron]

We are supposed to be the shining city on the hill that others look up to as a role model for peace, justice, and the rule of law. When all that goes out the window and our most prominent actions basically amount to "might makes right", that does not bode well for the world at large when everyone else attempts to follow that lead.

Well now, they have to. They can't trust their protection, and see an every man for himself, rat race world coming fast. So, of course they are scrambling for their own nukes, and bigger military power.

We characterize other nations as people who shouldn't be that worried about their own well-being, just let us sit at the top of the hill making decisions. Because, I guess we have the biggest guns and most blessing from God. So they should respect us when we want to annex territory. But also, cover your own asses more and stop relying on us. Even though, you should grovel to be our friend when we want territory because you can't help yourself and we protect you. Everything has become a "have cake and eat it too" joke where the US wants it all, in exchange for being an asshole.

 

[Madonis]

Do you understand how western your thinking is? You carry with you an innate bias that your morality is superior because it is capable of greater self reflection and self criticism.

Radical Islamic thinking carries with it a different bias: that its morality is superior because it is ordained from above and therefore requires no questioning. To prove this, try finding examples of events in which cultures dominated by Islamic influence were ever critical of themselves. Can you find any?

It was a rhetorical question. That's precisely part of why I think the West should try to maintain at least a layer of self-criticism rather than rejecting any kind of ethical restraints. If we were to ignore everything and reduce it all to a "holy crusade" or "jihad", then absolutely nothing else matters. Which is quite irrational.

You see USA and Israeli straight killing leaders, launchers, underground faciliteis with surgical precision and in the same thing you believe that somehow they misfired a missile into a school?


You literally are dealing with a regime hosting press conferences at schools and building hubs, hosting military equipment in kindergarden. What do you expect them to do - say to "pls give up" or what?

As I said before, I don't know what happened and neither do you. My description of the scenario was meant as an example, not a declaration of fact. I want a full investigation, but I'm also skeptical of how that will turn out. Why? Because of past historical precedents as well as in the context of the more philosophical side of the exchange we're having here.

You literally are dealing with a regime hosting press conferences at schools and building hubs, hosting military equipment in kindergarden. What do you expect them to do - say to "pls give up" or what?

If you notice, I've grudgingly accepted that there are situations where military necessity can be a justification.

So far, I'm seeing nobody argue that officially here. This happened on the very first day(s) of the attack, before whatever the regime is doing now.

Hell, the school incident has given the regime a powerful gift to rally its own population, including some of those who didn't necessarily love it. That sucks.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

It was a rhetorical question. That's precisely part of why I think the West should try to maintain at least a layer of self-criticism rather than rejecting any kind of ethical restraints. If we were to ignore everything and reduce it all to a "holy crusade" or "jihad", then absolutely nothing else matters. Which is quite irrational.

That layer is in the constitution and the bill of rights and the structure of government and free elections at regular intervals, and in free trade and scientific inquiry and so on.
It exists at almost every level of western culture. It is ingrained in our identities from birth. What makes you believe it's not being maintained?

 

[Forsete]

Litres

Alright, prices here from what I can find.

20,99 Swedish ducats (€1,97 +0,099)
16,74 for 95 (€1,57 +0,033)

95 was 15,74 (€1,48) when I filled up 2 days ago.

I drove a diesel before, but the prices were outrageous before I traded it in.. at one point I paid $2,55 per liter! It was crazy times when we had a green government.. I don't miss them at all.

 

[near]

Wasn't Tropic Thunder a movie about making a war movie?

 

[kruis]

Almost 2 EUR for Diesel here. Fucking insane... went from 1,50 to 2 in like 5 days. Oil mafia at it again.

Pfff ... Netherlands here.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

 

[JimmyRustler]

Pfff ... Netherlands here.

What a joke. It's the main reason why I will drive my current car to its death and then go electric. Fucking mafia bleeding people dry.

 

[Rentahamster]

And who decides what is befitting?

The usual. A democratically elected representative government that enacts the will of a well informed public according to the rule of law.

They are bad because they kill their own people. We are good because we killed their people too in response. Can you explain to me how the math works out here?

 

[kruis]

 

[poppabk]

Israel is probably the one with the most on the line. Without Iran I think suddenly lots of other neighboring countries get much more diplomatic with them, or they all gang up if they think there is a chance at "river to the sea"

My main concern would be with who is eyeing a massively weakened Iran for a takeover or slicing off territory. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Turkey all might fancy a shot, with the first 2 having nothing to lose, and Pakistan having a nuclear deterrent. Then you have Russia, who have military bases in Georgia.

 

[IDKFA]

You know it's bad when both the left and the right are against it.

 

[Sonik]

Day 7 of the special military operation and things are already getting from bad to worse on the economic front

BlackRock Fund Limits Withdrawals As Redemptions Rattle Private Credit

The AI bubble is gonna pop, I'm calling it

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

The usual. A democratically elected representative government that enacts the will of a well informed public according to the rule of law.

They are bad because they kill their own people. We are good because we killed their people too in response. Can you explain to me how the math works out here?

Yes. It works out in the long term.

9/11 was a massively successful operation against the west because it caused the west to spiral into a series of emotionally motivated reckless acts that severely weakened its standing in the world and in the eyes of its own citizenship.

Luckily, 7/10 was an act of hubris combined with desperation which backfired on the radical Islamists and since then the west has been learning to correct course.

Interesting to note that both of those dates, which were chosen by Islamists, signify meaningful historical events in their holy war with the west: The end of the siege of Vienna (leading to the battle of Vienna the next day) and the battle of Lepanto.
Radical Islamism operates in the realm of narratives, emotions and a sense of destiny, not in the realm of the here and now. It's why it cares so little about such trivialities as innocent casualties or speaking the truth.

 

[Forsete]

Iraq is getting hit now.

 

[BlackTron]

The usual. A democratically elected representative government that enacts the will of a well informed public according to the rule of law.

They are bad because they kill their own people. We are good because we killed their people too in response. Can you explain to me how the math works out here?

In theory, we would be the good guys because we went over there to kill the people killing the other people.

But would we have done it without some ulterior motive? Probably not. The people happy to be liberated are just propaganda fodder to call someone a nice guy for seizing oil. But they may benefit tangentially, I hope there is that silver lining.

 

[YCoCg]

What a joke. It's the main reason why I will drive my current car to its death and then go electric. Fucking mafia bleeding people dry.

Oh I'm sorry, are you a communist? Why are you against the great capitalism play? Don't like it? Go make your own fuel!

 

[EviLore]

In theory, we would be the good guys because we went over there to kill the people killing the other people.

But would we have done it without some ulterior motive? Probably not. The people happy to be liberated are just propaganda fodder to call someone a nice guy for seizing oil. But they may benefit tangentially, I hope there is that silver lining.

One could claim to undermine virtually any good action by noting potential tangential benefits to the acting party. Pure altruism isn't real and is completely irrelevant to the discussion of geopolitics.

 

[EviLore]

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Luckily, Persians are intelligent. But I hope the BBC has to answer to the UK government for harmfully interfering in an active war.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Which one of you works at the White House?

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

In theory, we would be the good guys because we went over there to kill the people killing the other people.

But would we have done it without some ulterior motive? Probably not. The people happy to be liberated are just propaganda fodder to call someone a nice guy for seizing oil. But they may benefit tangentially, I hope there is that silver lining.

The people living in Iran have been quite vocal about their willingness to pay, even with their lives, in order to topple this regime. The western press maybe doesn't think that's important for you to remember, which is a bit odd.

 

[demigod]

Oh I'm sorry, are you a communist? Why are you against the great capitalism play? Don't like it? Go make your own fuel!

Or just ride carriages like the irish folks.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Wasn't Tropic Thunder a movie about making a war movie?

The white house account is so fucking cringe holy shit

 

[adamsapple]

Almost 2 EUR for Diesel here. Fucking insane... went from 1,50 to 2 in like 5 days. Oil mafia at it again.

Went from $2.79 per gallon to $3.50 in less than 2 days here. Probably gonna get more and get closer to $4 during the weekend at this rate.

 

[AJUMP23]

Come out please.

 

[kruis]

When the US is unsanctioning Russian oil, it's clear things are not going as expected.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

The white house account is so fucking cringe holy shit

We're not the intended audience it's communicating with. It's communicating in the emotional language of the enemies of the west.

 

[Gp1]

Luckily, Persians are intelligent. But I hope the BBC has to answer to the UK government for harmfully interfering in an active war.

Another multi billion law suit incoming...

 

[kruis]

We're not the intended audience it's communicating with. It's communicating in the emotional language of the enemies of the west.

Of course we're the intended audience. Do you think Iranians or the Chinese recognize any of the scenes taken from Tropic Thunder, Breaking Bad, Braveheart, etc?

You'd have a point if that White House video repurposed scenes from Iranian movies and TV series.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Of course we're the intended audience. Do you think Iranians or the Chinese recognize any of the scenes taken from Tropic Thunder, Breaking Bad, Braveheart, etc?

No, but Im sure the lot of them know what GTA San Andreas is

 

[TheAtomicPile]

When the US is unsanctioning Russian oil, it's clear things are not going as expected.

This, the changing timeline, and the "I guess some people (Americans) will die" stuff does not inspire a whole lot of confidence.

 

[near]

The white house account is so fucking cringe holy shit

Hilarious nevertheless.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Of course we're the intended audience. Do you think Iranians or the Chinese recognize any of the scenes taken from Tropic Thunder, Breaking Bad, Braveheart, etc?

They recognize arrogance and a sense of cultural superiority as projecting power, even if it comes off as bravado, because the U.S. has the guns to back it. That's also Trump, in a nutshell.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The white house account is so fucking cringe holy shit

Nah, it looks cool. Especially if it triggers all the really cringy people. Not to mention Ben Stiller made a photoshoot with Z so he can hit the road. Hollywood is really high on their own supply. No wonder nobody watches them anymore.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Hilarious nevertheless.

If you're under the age of actually having an account here maybe

Fucking braindead new generation. That the White house is posting this stupidity we're truely in the most fucking stupid timeline

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

You'd have a point if that White House video repurposed scenes from Iranian movies and TV series.

Radical religious cults get off from smelling their own farts, so perhaps they can recognize the same attitude in their adversaries.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

You'd have a point if that White House video repurposed scenes from Iranian movies and TV series.

Wait, I've got a better perspective: It's a war cry. The enemy doesn't need to understand the cultural reference. It just needs to "feel" the tone.

 

[Forsete]

When the US is unsanctioning Russian oil, it's clear things are not going as expected.

Way to keep fueling the war.. the other war that is.

 

[Gp1]

as i said...

The Arab states basically piss money, why not build a channel crossing UAE and bypass the strait entirely?

 

[near]

If you're under the age of actually having an account here maybe

Fucking braindead new generation. That the White house is posting this stupidity we're truely in the most fucking stupid timeline

 

[Wildebeest]

The Arab states basically piss money, why not build a channel crossing UAE and bypass the strait entirely?

Sure, why not, Elon would promise to complete it in under five weeks for modest trillion dollar investment.

 

[BlackTron]

One could claim to undermine virtually any good action by noting potential tangential benefits to the acting party. Pure altruism isn't real and is completely irrelevant to the discussion of geopolitics.

The people living in Iran have been quite vocal about their willingness to pay, even with their lives, in order to topple this regime. The western press maybe doesn't think that's important for you to remember, which is a bit odd.

To be direct, and this has gotten me funny looks from people I know IRL, I don't think it was a bad thing to go in there, because the regime sucked and the people needed it. When I give an example of why the regime is so bad I usually get a blank reaction and they change the subject (or avoid me for a while, lol).

I think the intention for it matters as well though, because our motivation for being there will affect how a new government is set up, how the region (or world) feels about it, and those aspects have geopolitical consequences, in my opinion (good or bad). For example if we cut Russian oil again, accelerating their bankruptcy enabling Ukraine to work better/faster, because we essentially dropped an American Flag colored refinery on Iran, that would be a geopolitical consequence -but wait! Don't Iranians deserve to govern themselves??!! I'm oversimplifying here, but not claiming things are black and white.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

To be direct, and this has gotten me funny looks from people I know IRL, I don't think it was a bad thing to go in there, because the regime sucked and the people needed it. When I give an example of why the regime is so bad I usually get a blank reaction and they change the subject (or avoid me for a while, lol).

I think the intention for it matters as well though, because our motivation for being there will affect how a new government is set up, how the region (or world) feels about it, and those aspects have geopolitical consequences, in my opinion (good or bad). For example if we cut Russian oil again, accelerating their bankruptcy enabling Ukraine to work better/faster, because we essentially dropped an American Flag colored refinery on Iran, that would be a geopolitical consequence -but wait! Don't Iranians deserve to govern themselves??!! I'm oversimplifying here, but not claiming things are black and white.

Ultimately I think results matter more than intentions. And I'm hoping for a result which the majority of people living in the region will say was worth it. That's my "end of the day" simplistic metric. Even by that metric, it could take a while to tell.

 

[winjer]

 

[Tams]

To all those complaining about the price of oil, how the Iranian authoritarians are behaving now is exactly why they needed to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

That you support letting Iran fester for 47 years and want it to fester more says it all.

 

[Gp1]

Sure, why not, Elon would promise to complete it in under five weeks for modest trillion dollar investment.

Much better than expending a trillion dollars on a covered, climatized glass city with 170km of extension in the middle of the desert.

And I'm pretty sure that China and UAE would pay at least half of it.

 

[BlackTron]

Ultimately I think results matter more than intentions. And I'm hoping for a result which the majority of people living in the region will say was worth it. That's my "end of the day" simplistic metric. Even by that metric, it could take a while to tell.

It could indeed take a while to tell, and while waiting, we can only speculate as to the outcome, at this time bombs are still dropping, if you want to guess where it may lead (which we might because we care about it lol) then you can't ignore motivations for being there.

 

[Dirk Benedict]

Hah. Who else knows about water being wet ?
It would be hilarious if they didn't. They're basically being used to beta test US military equipment in Ukraine.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

Debatable. Considering US/UK intelligence removed the legitimate ruler in 1953 to install a puppet regime. For OIL.

Stop it with this, intelligence agencies does not create a radical religious culture of millions.