archangelmorph
Gold Member
This game has been in development forever.
Do we have a release date for this yet?
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This game has been in development forever.
Do we have a release date for this yet?
GudOlRub
Member
The discourse around Crimson Desert is so bizarre to me. It's a beautiful and technically impressive game, no one in the reviews is denying that, it seems to have quite a few flaws and bugs but it was this studio's first try at a massive singleplayer game, if they learn the right lessons from this it can only get better from here on.
The doomerism from shills just because it's not being reviewed as a 10/10 game is hilariously idiotic.
The doomerism from shills just because it's not being reviewed as a 10/10 game is hilariously idiotic.
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Gonzito
Gold Member
if I recall correctly, they said 2027....
Lokaum D+
Member
Just for the record I am pro dlss5 but these made me laugh
Lore accurate Kratos
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mrBarrelNut
Member
BlownUpRich
Member
Really good & well-balanced take on this whole DLSS 5 thing, from our friend Dallas. A must watch if you're interested. This is from a game developer who is also an Artist, he's making his own indie game AND he's making another game under a development studio.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
From the other thread on Crimson Desert's benchmarks:
This is 4K native. With DLSS everyone will be enjoying the path traced glory of the game.
Ray Reconstruction is not enabled in these benchmarks, and you lose like 70% performance with it on. With a 5080 you'd probably have to go DLSS Balanced + Frame Gen or even DLSS Performance + Frame Gen or you'll be dipping below 60fps. Just an FYI
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winjer
Gold Member
Where did you see that it doesn't have RR enabled in those benchmarks?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
It's definitely less visually offensive, but if DLSS5 is going to be expensive to render, then what's the point? You might as well use those resources on RT/PT or textures or lighting or detail or whatever.
I know they say they'll have it running on one card when it releases, but the fact that it took two 5090s today and this tech is supposedly releasing in like 6 months doesn't make me confident that this is going to be a performant technology when it releases.
mrMUR_96
Member
Yeah I agree, it seems likely it's relying on MFG currently too.
PeteBull
Member
Here we actually see how demanding game is trully maxed(including ray reconstruction) at 4k native on 5090 25-30fps:
To get mostly stable 60 u need to go with 4k dlss balanced, coz quality stays below 60 all the time:
Obviously no fake frames coz fk dat shit (personally i can somewhat tolerate 2x if i play on joypad but thats it)
Edit:
For 5080 peons like myself:
4k dlss perf(so internal 1080p, IQ is still solid enough)and ultra preset(so not maxed/cinematic) + ray reconstruction makes fps stay in the 40s, sometimes above 50s too.
To get mostly stable 60 u need to go with 4k dlss balanced, coz quality stays below 60 all the time:
Obviously no fake frames coz fk dat shit (personally i can somewhat tolerate 2x if i play on joypad but thats it)
Edit:
For 5080 peons like myself:
4k dlss perf(so internal 1080p, IQ is still solid enough)and ultra preset(so not maxed/cinematic) + ray reconstruction makes fps stay in the 40s, sometimes above 50s too.
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Bojji
Gold Member
38% improvement on 1% lows and 39% on avg fps between 4080 and 4090 is already huge gap, but:
+63% improvement on 1% lows and 60% on avg fps between 5080 and 5090 is basically digital colorado canion, no wonder those gpu's sell for 4k in the wild
Dont even wanna imagine what will happen between 6080 and 6090 lool
You get half of the 5090 with 5080
Wolzard
Member
Obviously, there are differences or else we wouldn't be talking about it. What I'm saying is her features and structure are unchanged. Same thing that happens in real life when makeup and lighting changes our perception:
Those who don't understand the power of photography are doomed to fall victim to scams...
Bojji
Gold Member
Ubisoft flexing here? See people, even fucking Ubisoft have virtualized geometry in their engine - silence in Sony studios...
SlimySnake
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
The immensely negative feedback to DLSS5 has given me zero hope for the future of this industry.
Gamers are literally PETRIFIED of ANYTHING new.
This is first-gen tech. Of course it's not perfect. That's the point. The real value is where it leads, not where it starts.
You're all just screaming out A.I sLoP without even giving it a shot
Crying about needing 2 5090's when they clearly stated, multiple times, it would be optimized to run on 1 consumer level GPU by launch.
As if they would be fucking dumb enough to launch a thing that requires 2 5090's....
Crying about aRtIst InTent, when the first fucking thing 95% of you do in a game is disable Film Grain, C/A, Motion Blur... which all play into how the artist intended the game to look.
Crying about artist intent, when you willingly uglify the game, in order to improve performance.
This tech has the potential to cut YEARS off of development time and give us generational leaps in visual fidelity at the same time....
But no, we cant even fucking give it a chance? You're just going to make memes and shout out Ai Slop like a fucking programmed robot?
Holy christ, fucking no wonder the industry has been so stagnant for years.
Companies like Nvida, who clearly actually care about pushing visuals forward are demonized for embracing new tech all the fucking time.
Then people wonder why progress feels slow.
Companies that actually try to move things forward get dragged the hardest. Meanwhile, everyone complains about stagnation. You don't get both. You either accept early, imperfect innovation OR you stay stuck refining the same ideas over and over. Period.
We wont get anywhere like this, just blatant hate before you even fucking try the thing.
Its the very first iteration of a brand new technology - and instead of having an open mind and realizing how insane this tech can be for future games down the line, we have people making disingenuine memes, and screaming out whatever it is their alghorithm tells them to.
The fact that EVERY SINGLE YOUTUBER has the same "opinion" is just absurd.
The backlash feels very uniform. Every. Single. Major YouTuber lands on the exact same talking points, like it's prepackaged, down to the thumbnail. That's not organic skepticism, that's herd behavior, hating what the internet tells you to hate.
At this point, it's not even about DLSS anymore. It's about a community that refuses to engage with change unless it's already safe, proven, and polished.
We will never get anywhere with an industy full of fans who just want the same old graphics at 60fps every goddamn gen
Gamers are literally PETRIFIED of ANYTHING new.
This is first-gen tech. Of course it's not perfect. That's the point. The real value is where it leads, not where it starts.
You're all just screaming out A.I sLoP without even giving it a shot
Crying about needing 2 5090's when they clearly stated, multiple times, it would be optimized to run on 1 consumer level GPU by launch.
As if they would be fucking dumb enough to launch a thing that requires 2 5090's....
Crying about aRtIst InTent, when the first fucking thing 95% of you do in a game is disable Film Grain, C/A, Motion Blur... which all play into how the artist intended the game to look.
Crying about artist intent, when you willingly uglify the game, in order to improve performance.
This tech has the potential to cut YEARS off of development time and give us generational leaps in visual fidelity at the same time....
But no, we cant even fucking give it a chance? You're just going to make memes and shout out Ai Slop like a fucking programmed robot?
Holy christ, fucking no wonder the industry has been so stagnant for years.
Companies like Nvida, who clearly actually care about pushing visuals forward are demonized for embracing new tech all the fucking time.
Then people wonder why progress feels slow.
Companies that actually try to move things forward get dragged the hardest. Meanwhile, everyone complains about stagnation. You don't get both. You either accept early, imperfect innovation OR you stay stuck refining the same ideas over and over. Period.
We wont get anywhere like this, just blatant hate before you even fucking try the thing.
Its the very first iteration of a brand new technology - and instead of having an open mind and realizing how insane this tech can be for future games down the line, we have people making disingenuine memes, and screaming out whatever it is their alghorithm tells them to.
The fact that EVERY SINGLE YOUTUBER has the same "opinion" is just absurd.
The backlash feels very uniform. Every. Single. Major YouTuber lands on the exact same talking points, like it's prepackaged, down to the thumbnail. That's not organic skepticism, that's herd behavior, hating what the internet tells you to hate.
At this point, it's not even about DLSS anymore. It's about a community that refuses to engage with change unless it's already safe, proven, and polished.
We will never get anywhere with an industy full of fans who just want the same old graphics at 60fps every goddamn gen
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
We've seen tons of improvements & innovations in recent times. There's always going to be naysayers, you can't control people's opinions, but the community has largely accepted and adopted:
- Temporal upscaling
- Ray-tracing / Path-tracing
- HDR rendering
- Frame Generation
- 60fps standard on consoles
- Cloud streaming / in-home streaming
- Virtualized geometry
etc.. etc..
People are pushing back hard on DLSS 5 because it was an extremely poor first showing, nvidia has been repeatedly dishonest about it (devs involvement / it's genAI nature / etc..), and Nvidia can make vague performance claims all they want, but it needing two 5090s to run when it's supposedly due out 6 months from now should be concerning to anyone with half a brain. No one thinks it's going to require two 5090s when it launches, obviously, but the performance concerns are completely valid.
And that's without even factoring in the moral/ethical dilemma that many have around genAI already.
I'm so sick of some people blaming the general public's reaction around this instead of, I don't know, maybe holding the highest valuated company in the world, larger than Apple, larger than Google, larger than Amazon, larger than Microsoft, to an actual standard of responsibility in the way in which they rolled out this absolute clusterfuck of a reveal.
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Lokaum D+
Member
March Climber
Member
Represent.
It's not that deep.They just need to admit the faults of early tech instead of doubling down and saying 'everyone else is wrong', improve the tech a bit more, and then have a better second rollout.
This is a fleeting moment in time. The important thing is that a message was made clear about what people don't want. That doesn't mean they should 'abandon the tech entirely'
Dust-by-Monday
Member
One thing that's bothering me is, does everyone who enables DLSS5 get the same exact look to the game? Does it change from run to run or PC to PC?
Bitstream
Member
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Killer8
Member
Interesting thread on Reddit about fixing DLSS5. I tried to show with my photoshop a few pages back how developers could get rid of the AI look, but this guy goes way further:
Basically just by fixing Nvidia's shitty tonemapping he restores the original look of the game.
Some examples with image slider:
A few points:
1. Most of the 'slop' look is actually down to the tonemapping Nvidia employed in this reveal. I don't know why they did that. Maybe to try and either make the games look more realistic or to make DLSS5 look like a bigger leap than it is. It's like adding a "Cyberpunk FULL GAME 60FPS HDR ULTRA REALISM" mod to each game (since those mods mostly achieve what they do by changing tonemapping and color lut).
2. With the original artistic intent™ restored, the difference which DLSS5 brings is much more subtle, but awesome looking in my opinion. It just becomes another welcome layer of lighting enhancement. The only question is whether that is worth the performance cost of (presently) a whole ass RTX 5090.
3. Nvidia are actually telling the truth when they say DLSS5 is not changing the assets or geometry of the game, as the poster on Reddit shows that you can completely restore the look of the character models just by changing the tonemapping.
4. Presumably tonemapping is an aspect of DLSS5 which Nvidia are referring to the developers having some control over. All the artists really need to do here is eschew any Nvidia tonemapping changes and stick to the lighting enhancements only.
Basically just by fixing Nvidia's shitty tonemapping he restores the original look of the game.
Some examples with image slider:
A few points:
1. Most of the 'slop' look is actually down to the tonemapping Nvidia employed in this reveal. I don't know why they did that. Maybe to try and either make the games look more realistic or to make DLSS5 look like a bigger leap than it is. It's like adding a "Cyberpunk FULL GAME 60FPS HDR ULTRA REALISM" mod to each game (since those mods mostly achieve what they do by changing tonemapping and color lut).
2. With the original artistic intent™ restored, the difference which DLSS5 brings is much more subtle, but awesome looking in my opinion. It just becomes another welcome layer of lighting enhancement. The only question is whether that is worth the performance cost of (presently) a whole ass RTX 5090.
3. Nvidia are actually telling the truth when they say DLSS5 is not changing the assets or geometry of the game, as the poster on Reddit shows that you can completely restore the look of the character models just by changing the tonemapping.
4. Presumably tonemapping is an aspect of DLSS5 which Nvidia are referring to the developers having some control over. All the artists really need to do here is eschew any Nvidia tonemapping changes and stick to the lighting enhancements only.
geary
Member
FightinCowboy said in his video that playing at 4K, Cinematics, DLSS 4.5 Quality w/ FG uses ~9-9.5 GB VRAM with 70-80 FPS. If he enables RR, loses ~15 FPS.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Hardware Unboxed just did a nice analysis of Ray Reconstruction. Long story short is that it's a ~67% performance hit. DLSS Performance + Ray Reconstruction runs even slower than DLAA max settings:
Also, using Ray Reconstruction kills all rain in the game. The denoiser interprets rain as noise and removes it from the image.
Also, using Ray Reconstruction kills all rain in the game. The denoiser interprets rain as noise and removes it from the image.
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Bojji
Gold Member
Hardware Unboxed just did a nice analysis of Ray Reconstruction. Long story short is that it's a ~67% performance hit. DLSS Performance + Ray Reconstruction runs even slower than DLAA max settings:
Also, using Ray Reconstruction kills all rain in the game. The denoiser interprets rain as noise and removes it from the image.
So there is this dilemma of having better graphics most of the time vs. having better graphics when it's raining.
CowboyLou
Member
Awesome writeup dude. Thanks for the info. Be interesting to see how this develops. I highly doubt the "AI slop" look will be much of an issue when we start seeing the final product, it was just a shitty demo.Interesting thread on Reddit about fixing DLSS5. I tried to show with my photoshop a few pages back how developers could get rid of the AI look, but this guy goes way further:
Basically just by fixing Nvidia's shitty tonemapping he restores the original look of the game.
Some examples with image slider:
A few points:
1. Most of the 'slop' look is actually down to the tonemapping Nvidia employed in this reveal. I don't know why they did that. Maybe to try and either make the games look more realistic or to make DLSS5 look like a bigger leap than it is. It's like adding a "Cyberpunk FULL GAME 60FPS HDR ULTRA REALISM" mod to each game (since those mods mostly achieve what they do by changing tonemapping and color lut).
2. With the original artistic intent™ restored, the difference which DLSS5 brings is much more subtle, but awesome looking in my opinion. It just becomes another welcome layer of lighting enhancement. The only question is whether that is worth the performance cost of (presently) a whole ass RTX 5090.
3. Nvidia are actually telling the truth when they say DLSS5 is not changing the assets or geometry of the game, as the poster on Reddit shows that you can completely restore the look of the character models just by changing the tonemapping.
4. Presumably tonemapping is an aspect of DLSS5 which Nvidia are referring to the developers having some control over. All the artists really need to do here is eschew any Nvidia tonemapping changes and stick to the lighting enhancements only.
BlownUpRich
Member
Very interesting, turns out Grace's Path Traced face in cutscenes IS the furthest one from the original look and that's due to PT's massive change to lighting that isn't necessarily accounted of by the developers' rather pre-baked and hand-placed lights. That's not a flaw of PT, that's just a misalignment by the developer's implementation of it in many cutscenes.
Now to the main point, it's actually DLSS 5 that is being closer to the Ray Traced one which is quite something! I favor it over all others IN THIS EXAMPLE.
Now to the main point, it's actually DLSS 5 that is being closer to the Ray Traced one which is quite something! I favor it over all others IN THIS EXAMPLE.
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zeroluck
Member
Very interesting, turns out Grace's Path Traced face in cutscenes IS the furthest one from the original look and that's due to PT's massive change to lighting that isn't necessarily accounted of by the developers' rather pre-baked and hand-placed lights. That's not a flaw of PT, that's just a misalignment by the developer's implementation of it in many cutscenes.
Now to the main point, it's actually DLSS 5 that is being closer to the Ray Traced one which is quite something! I favor it over all others IN THIS EXAMPLE.
There are people seriously thinking DLSS 5 adds anything to the underlying arts. They think video games should work like sculpture/painting or something, muh artistic vision.
Cumulus
Member
Complete bullshit but at least you got to post "something funny"Sure, regression.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Lmao, only a denoiser my ass, RR introduce higher settings than cinematic somehow
(unless the dude is full of shit)
Digital Foundry alluded to the same thing in their video.
No idea why they'd hide higher settings behind a denoiser toggle.
GymWolf
Gold Member
The terrible thing is that rain disappear with RR...
Now i don't know what to chose, rain looks pretty great in this game...
RR is also beyond heavy...
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Hardware Unboxed just did a nice analysis of Ray Reconstruction. Long story short is that it's a ~67% performance hit. DLSS Performance + Ray Reconstruction runs even slower than DLAA max settings:
Also, using Ray Reconstruction kills all rain in the game. The denoiser interprets rain as noise and removes it from the image.
Absolute nonsense. The devs said that the ray reconstruction adds more bounces to the ray tracing. Yeah, you couldve done that without toggling ray reconstruction. Increase the rays as you go up graphics presets. But they wanted to trick everyone into thinking that you can max out the game at native 4k 60 fps.
Max out my ass. it looks like a completely different game with ray reconstruction off. especially indoors. So lame for devs to be this deceptive.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
what?
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Agreed. Plus as I shared, RR kills the rain. You literally hear the rain sound effects and see the wet ground but there's no actual rain coming down with RR on. And in fact there's this weird translucent static image retention of rain over the image.
Here's an example:
Half of me is thinking of just putting this game on hold and playing it in a few months when shit like this is (hopefully) ironed out.
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GymWolf
Gold Member
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
John with another 50 minute video jerking off to a game.
At least unlike TLOU1, this game deserves it.
At least unlike TLOU1, this game deserves it.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
So this sounds like a bug. Basically, the whole point of DLSS is that even if you are going down to 1080p when using DLSS 4k Performance, it will use 4k textures and effects. This game seems to be causing blurry textures as you enable DLSS which could mean that its using 1080p textures and effects, but this guy thinks its a bug, and not by design.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Bug or not, until they fix this, it is pretty terrible for all the people who can't do native or dlaa...
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I will just turn off ray reconstruction when i see the rain come down lolAgreed. Plus as I shared, RR kills the rain. You literally hear the rain sound effects and see the wet ground but there's no actual rain coming down with RR on. And in fact there's this weird translucent static image retention of rain over the image.
Here's an example:
Half of me is thinking of just putting this game on hold and playing it in a few months when shit like this is (hopefully) ironed out.
so stupid. Stuff like this and the DLSS bug shouldve been fixed by launch.
RR is necessary. Just drop to high or ultra settings. I dont really see a massive difference in textures when enabling DLSS.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
As he said in the video though, the render resolution of the game also affects the sample count of lighting effects.
The fuck is going on with this game?
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GymWolf
Gold Member
Watch his settings guide, many settings have no impact or difference between cinematic and fucking medium...
This game is weird as fuck.
Did ue5 ever had any of this problems on pc?
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coachmcguirk91
Member
I keep thinking of the initial UE5 videos from 2020. The Matrix Demo or the Lara Croft looking game. Those demos showed the potential of UE5, but 6 years later few games have come close to replicating the demo videos. If Nvidia can't even get their reveal videos of DLSS5 to look super polished, I am guessing we are still many years away from DLSS5 actually being worth using. That reveal was not good
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sorry, i will watch the vid.
Bojji
Gold Member
If this is related with negative LOD bias having wrong values when upscaling, it can be easily fixed in nvidia profile inspector.
That's normal for RT games. RT scales with internal res.
GymWolf
Gold Member
No need to say sorry.
Btw raytracing off has slighty worse perf than rtx on...
What is this game?
Why the fuck didn't they included rtx in the series S version if the game run even better with them?
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PeteBull
Member
No need to say sorry.
Btw raytracing off has slighty worse perf than rtx on...
What is this game?
Why the fuck didn't they included rtx in the series S version if the game run even better with them?
