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L*][*N*K
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Honest to fucking god I don't what that means either.quality, but 16k.![L*][*N*K](https://www.neogaf.com/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1756724107 "L*][*N*K")
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Will PS6/Xbox next finally offer true next-gen graphics?
- Thread starter Klik
- Start date
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I strongly doubt we need or are getting higher fidelity assets. Too many upscaling tools available now.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Same.
At some point most people will realize that the visual gains simply aren't that impactful on the experience anymore.
Self High Five
Member
Crimson Desert totally looks like an Xbox One game.
Wen true next gen!?!?
Wen true next gen!?!?
FingerBang
Member
I have a PC running a 5090.
None of the games I can play, maxed out, can be considered "next Gen". I have a PS5 Pro, still use it a lot. I don't buy games for both systems, but switching between them I rarely feel "this is a generation apart".
They'll push path tracing and ML upscaling, and many games will be 4K at 60hz+, but none of this will make games look a generation ahead.
None of the games I can play, maxed out, can be considered "next Gen". I have a PS5 Pro, still use it a lot. I don't buy games for both systems, but switching between them I rarely feel "this is a generation apart".
They'll push path tracing and ML upscaling, and many games will be 4K at 60hz+, but none of this will make games look a generation ahead.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Next Gen is always on PC not on console.
You just named a bunch of bandaids though
that is what next gen means. just vogue stuff and fancy words that mean nothing.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
I think so this time, yes. Unless these consoles come to early they should be able to take advantage of advancements in AI technology in order to advance visual fidelity with less effort. Similar to how the Switch 2 is much more capable than it otherwise would be thanks to the upscaling technology.
PlayStaytion
Member
Everyone is b about DLSS5 and expect a savior like Mark Cerny to clean Jensen's mess.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
Short answer... Yes.
Long answer... It's all down to RT and all the supportive tech it births. The right lighting can make something as old as Quake 2 look next-gen. And the next-gen consoles are built from the ground up to excel in RT. Raster peaked with teh PS4XB1 gen. And just like how the PS360 gen before it was a prelude to what was really possible with raster, so was the PS5XB1 a prelude to what's possible with RT. We are only going to really see that next gen. I believe it has always taken about two console generations for any true graphical or rendering tech to take hold. We are in our growing pains of RT and AI gen; next gen would be the actual gen where those things shine as they become standard across the board.
And I don't know why people are talking about things like 5080/5090.... it doesnt matter what kinda tech is or has been in the best of the best PC hardware when devs are primarily making their games for things that do not have those features. Does anyone really think a dev anywhere has made a game that is designed specifically for and can only run on a 5090? No, they build for a PS5 or an equivalent-specced PC, and just tack on features that can be taken advantage of by the better PC hardware...
Next gen, that changes. The floor rises again.
Long answer... It's all down to RT and all the supportive tech it births. The right lighting can make something as old as Quake 2 look next-gen. And the next-gen consoles are built from the ground up to excel in RT. Raster peaked with teh PS4XB1 gen. And just like how the PS360 gen before it was a prelude to what was really possible with raster, so was the PS5XB1 a prelude to what's possible with RT. We are only going to really see that next gen. I believe it has always taken about two console generations for any true graphical or rendering tech to take hold. We are in our growing pains of RT and AI gen; next gen would be the actual gen where those things shine as they become standard across the board.
And I don't know why people are talking about things like 5080/5090.... it doesnt matter what kinda tech is or has been in the best of the best PC hardware when devs are primarily making their games for things that do not have those features. Does anyone really think a dev anywhere has made a game that is designed specifically for and can only run on a 5090? No, they build for a PS5 or an equivalent-specced PC, and just tack on features that can be taken advantage of by the better PC hardware...
Next gen, that changes. The floor rises again.
means nothing to gameplay wise.
Aion002
Member
It will be just like every gen.
The first few games will look pretty enough and play with good perfomance, but after a while the devs will push more and more the hardware and we will end up having to choose between the high quality or the high perfomance options, with both options having frame drops and poor optimization from third-party devs.
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Well, where should this performance come from?
small chips are way to expensive. Well maybe with $1k+ consoles ...
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
When was the last time you played a game and it was exactly like the tech demo they used to show off the engine? Games can get better, but to say they'll be worlds apart from this gen? lol maybe when I'm gone from this world and AI has taken control of every NPC in the game.
Developers are going to have to use AI otherwise games are going to take decades to make. I agree that RDR2, GTA, and The Last of Us outclass this hardware race. Those games came out a long time ago, but they probably took a very long time to make.
We could get the next big thing without spending a fortune on next gen hardware. I think there are far too many consumers still on legacy hardware. A major push to get them off will probably make them lose a lot of money.
Developers are going to have to use AI otherwise games are going to take decades to make. I agree that RDR2, GTA, and The Last of Us outclass this hardware race. Those games came out a long time ago, but they probably took a very long time to make.
We could get the next big thing without spending a fortune on next gen hardware. I think there are far too many consumers still on legacy hardware. A major push to get them off will probably make them lose a lot of money.
Sohurmk833
Member
The upgrade from Pro to PS6 will be negligible.
PeteBull
Member
We all saw how witcher4 demo looks like and it was supposedly running on ps5 at 60fps, but u can tell game gonna be crossgen release aka earliest launch in 2028 sometime, compared to that even midrange pc in 2028 or newly launched ps6 version gonna look like ultra/max setttings with sharp crystal clear image quality vs ps5 version looking like medium settings blurry af soap-smeared picture quality.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
How about physics, animations and world design? Thats where advancements need to happen. Graphics are already good enough.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
I think people need to be honest about what generation leaps really mean now. We are past the point where simply being able to push more polygons and being able to do PBR amounts to a generational leap.
eg.
That "demo" is running on the base PS5, at 60fps and with RT. While the actual game would likely not do that on the PS5, it would be close.
What is a generational leap from that?
For me, a generational leap for next gen means most games will at least look that good cause the hardware to make that possible is there, and it would be easier to pull off. While running at 60fps and at a higher rez, be that natively or via AI reconstruction.
We are never going to go from this...
to this again.
Bridges
Member
Now that graphics are past the point of diminishing returns, power leaps are mostly just lowering the bar of how unoptimized a dev can make their game and still have it "work". Very few games are actually taking advantage of a console's power at all aside from prettier pixels and faster load times. The last real "next Gen" idea this industry had was probably the Battle Royale genre and that's been beaten into the ground.
Instant_Classic
Junior Member
Evolving those areas is way tougher, hence why most don't try.
boomtimesbaby
Neo Member
It deepdns on what you mean true next gen. there's not a lot of missing that we don't have from 3DCG software usually ours is just a bit behind but doesnt matter in the broad scheme of things. actually there's one thing we're missing - the key ingredient. simulation is just not up to snuff. characters are made out of latex. nothing deforms not clothes not anything al lof it just hacks and "creative" solution. once we reach like FF13 FMV levels of cloth/hair/cloud iteraction wangling
then we're truly next gen. there's little else to step forwards. like okay they'll do PT but we achived close enough to PT with traditional raster that's it's not THAT impressive sure way better and will look good in screenshots but again nothing interacts everyting's still too static.
then we're truly next gen. there's little else to step forwards. like okay they'll do PT but we achived close enough to PT with traditional raster that's it's not THAT impressive sure way better and will look good in screenshots but again nothing interacts everyting's still too static.
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Magic Carpet
Gold Member
Yep.
Graphics need to be put on the back burner for next gen. Focus more on interactivity, Level design and NPC's with more reactivity.
DryvBy
Member
The machines we have now are already incredible but if you're not seeing "next-gen" on current PCs, you're not going to see it on a PS6. There's no point of investing in these games when they can't recover so I'd expect to see mostly a bunch of indie PS1 clones over crazy looking realistic graphics.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Will they offer true next-gen gameplay is what you should be asking.
Graphics are generally good enough now. And if you want "next gen graphics" then get ready for 6-7 year dev cycles on AAA games so your fave studio maybe puts out one game a gen and it has a 50:50 chance of being cross-gen. That, or get ready for a ridiculous amount of AI usage to try speeding things up, which won't actually cut the budgets that much because the publishers will just shift the savings to wasting it on some other area of game development instead.
Or maybe you do get your "next gen graphics" and return of 3-4 year AAA dev cycles, but the quality control at release (especially from Western devs) will probably be so bad that you're running into game-breaking bugs every five minutes, and have to wait until a 100 GB patch three weeks later to actually play the game properly. Double that if you're on Windows.
"Next gen graphics" won't be worth the squeeze unless you want a large chunk of the AAA market to collapse, IMHO.
Indie PS1 clones and AA PS3/360-style games with more modern textures & stable framerates would be more than perfectly acceptable for me to dominate gaming going forward.
Yep. The point of video games is to serve as an escape from real-life, and to fuel the imagination of players. It's an extension of the toy philosophy, but in interactive digitized form, and it's why Nintendo in particular have persisted throughout industry changes better than anyone else. They understand the "heart" of what a video game should be more than basically any other company.
Not saying you can't have other things in addition to that, but especially within the AAA space, the "core" concept of a video game has been disappearing. More and more of such games end up feeling closer to work than play, and IMO subconsciously reinforcing acclimation to unsavory aspects of reality vs. serving as a distinction and break from them. Just one of multiple reasons I can see the AAA market collapsing over the next several years.
Graphics are generally good enough now. And if you want "next gen graphics" then get ready for 6-7 year dev cycles on AAA games so your fave studio maybe puts out one game a gen and it has a 50:50 chance of being cross-gen. That, or get ready for a ridiculous amount of AI usage to try speeding things up, which won't actually cut the budgets that much because the publishers will just shift the savings to wasting it on some other area of game development instead.
Or maybe you do get your "next gen graphics" and return of 3-4 year AAA dev cycles, but the quality control at release (especially from Western devs) will probably be so bad that you're running into game-breaking bugs every five minutes, and have to wait until a 100 GB patch three weeks later to actually play the game properly. Double that if you're on Windows.
"Next gen graphics" won't be worth the squeeze unless you want a large chunk of the AAA market to collapse, IMHO.
Indie PS1 clones and AA PS3/360-style games with more modern textures & stable framerates would be more than perfectly acceptable for me to dominate gaming going forward.
Yep. The point of video games is to serve as an escape from real-life, and to fuel the imagination of players. It's an extension of the toy philosophy, but in interactive digitized form, and it's why Nintendo in particular have persisted throughout industry changes better than anyone else. They understand the "heart" of what a video game should be more than basically any other company.
Not saying you can't have other things in addition to that, but especially within the AAA space, the "core" concept of a video game has been disappearing. More and more of such games end up feeling closer to work than play, and IMO subconsciously reinforcing acclimation to unsavory aspects of reality vs. serving as a distinction and break from them. Just one of multiple reasons I can see the AAA market collapsing over the next several years.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Thats mostly because there is just so much more to do these days and things are getting harder.. not easier. eg. Back then, devs could get middleware like havok that meant they didnt have to build a whole physics engine from the ground up for their game. But for some reason, no one has made any kinda RT middleware that all devs can just plig into their engines. Or even upscaling... at first all devs were pretty much coming up with tehir own thing, and now we have things like DLSS, FSR, PSSR...etc.
Wouldn't it be great if Lumen or Nanite were standalone middleware that devs could just add to their engines? VS having to use the whole UE suite?
Zannegan
Member
Full path tracing will make a difference at some point, but whether that will be appreciable to most viewers is doubtful.
For some, the DLSS 5 filtered look is consistently better than native, so maybe slop overlays to current graphics the answer.
I'm more interested to see if diminishing graphical returns inspires studios to start focusing on standing out through gameplay, art style, and even world building/story again.
For some, the DLSS 5 filtered look is consistently better than native, so maybe slop overlays to current graphics the answer.
I'm more interested to see if diminishing graphical returns inspires studios to start focusing on standing out through gameplay, art style, and even world building/story again.
Diddy X
Member
For me, Crimson Desert maxed out is the benchmark for nextgen: huge scale, tons of detail, impressive effects, and a dense, believable world.
And of course, don't sacrifice anything like image quality, draw distance, or similar. No more of that shitty nonsense, please.
And of course, don't sacrifice anything like image quality, draw distance, or similar. No more of that shitty nonsense, please.
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boomtimesbaby
Neo Member
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Loboxxx
Member
Bojji
Gold Member
Welcome to 2021 !!
W
Yeah, there is really nothing very impressive about XIII CGI cutscenes compared to modern games.
boomtimesbaby
Neo Member
that's just hair though. from what I recall it's extremely expensive as well.Welcome to 2021 !!
W
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Syphon Filter
Member
No, we are a point of diminishing returns. I think graphics are good enough now, I think they need to focus on other aspects like better gameplay,etc
Seiryu21
Member
Sounds like you're using your personal feelings and marketing to determine what next gen is just like I said. Ps4 games look better than ps3 games and ps5 games look better than ps4 games. Ps5 games also run better than ps4 games. Ignoring this is just odd to me.
How is "we believe in generations" false when there are objective differences between the consoles?
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
In truth, its not about RT, AI upscaling, virtualized geometry....etc. Everything we need to have really great looking and performing games are technically there and well-known. The real issue is the hardware to run it.
Game development has always been a dance of compromises. We hear things like RT would make game design easier and less expensive. This is true, it will, but only if you had the underlying hardware to just throw RT at, and it would just work. Be that hybrid RT or PT. Ideally, those systems are such that if you could just apply it to your entire game, there is a shit ton of work you do not have to do anymore.
The same can be said for AI upscaling; if every supported hardware had a PSSR2, DLSS, FSR4.1 upscaler, you wouldn't have to be battling with trying to get your rez up as high as possible, so you aren't left with a blurry and/or aliased mess with pixel crawl all over the place. Or fighting with what to cut on a near frame-by-frame basis, because every 3 new enemies on screen would mean a drop in render rez. You would know your game only needs to run great at 1080p, and the upscaler would do the rest. That makes shit easier for devs.
But the issue is that the hardware has just never been there, most of the time devs spend building out the visual side of their games, is spent on that balancing act of making shit good enough. Passable, faking it... simply put, its easier flipping a switch that says Full RT ON than trying to make something look like full RT ON.
When we can get devs to not have to spend 70% of their time just getting the game to run properly, then that time will naturally be spent on making the game feel and play better. When the hardware and generally accessible software is there to make every game be able to look as good as say, The Witcher 4, with minimal effort, all while pushing reconstructed 4K, 60fps and with RT, then the only way devs can differentiate themselves is to focus on things like gameplay, art direction, music, AI... etc.
I am hoping we get there next gen.
deeptech
Member
I think better visuals are gonna be there for sure, but not from raw compute power is my guess. Rather ML and AI are to be heavily involved/utilized. If they add the kind of path tracing we use today on PC, all that extra power will just produce what we already have in a way, but pay lot more today.
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Hudo
Member
How about some next-gen gameplay instead? Games haven't moved beyond PS360-era AI or reactive open-worlds. I want to see some crazy gameplay systems that couldn't be done on a 360. I want to see some narrative systems that require all this power. I want to see some crazy interaction capabilities with the game worlds that couldn't be done on old hardware.
Prettier graphics is the most boring thing ever. If that's the only thing a new console gen is bringing to the table, then I am not interested.
Prettier graphics is the most boring thing ever. If that's the only thing a new console gen is bringing to the table, then I am not interested.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I don't even know what a "next gen leap" is at this point and if it is SLOPSS 5 I don't want it. Some better lighting and stuff sure but if you can do it just by jacking up settings on a PC game it's not really next gen is it? It's incremental.
So basically we've hit the point of diminished returns.
So basically we've hit the point of diminished returns.
BlazeEcho97
Neo Member
I don't know what it is next gen graphics exactly means,but i believe in ps6 era biggest improvement in graphics will be lightning,this is imo most crucial aspect which we could notice,we practically reached law of diminishing returns in polygons
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It'll be a generational leap, but you might have to wait a while for it. Imo this generation was a perfectly decent generational leap too, but the main advance was the SSDs so getting past cross gen was crucial.
Next gen it'll be path tracing, but again I'm not sure you'll really see the best of it until we get games truly designed around it rather than just bolted on like in Indiana Jones or Alan Wake 2.
But it's not all bad, because imo the late gen games coming soon and the early cross gen ones in 28 and 29 will be sufficiently better than what's come before that THEY'LL feel like a big step anyway.
Next gen it'll be path tracing, but again I'm not sure you'll really see the best of it until we get games truly designed around it rather than just bolted on like in Indiana Jones or Alan Wake 2.
But it's not all bad, because imo the late gen games coming soon and the early cross gen ones in 28 and 29 will be sufficiently better than what's come before that THEY'LL feel like a big step anyway.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
How do you even measure "returns" in terms of fidelity? People said the PS4 generation was going to be a meagre increase because of the relatively small jump in compute, but it was a step change as impressive as any other simply because PBR and quality baked GI was such a massive improvement over the previous generation.
Imo path tracing has the potential to be a similar advance.
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