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[MisterXDTV]

The problem is in the question...

Too much attention to graphics, and not to the actual content's quality

Then you get DLSS 5 AI filter as a result

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

AMD marketing bulletpoints of architectural Voodoo have promised to quadruple performance and put Nvidia out of business next year for the last 30 years. The AMD Cycle is well known to be the Sonic Cycle of hardware. Dual issue and simultanious instructions will in an absolute best case scenario add maybe 30% raster improvement, so in total maybe a 40-50% advantage over PS5 Pro. Hence why I said PS5 Pro+ (plus), which is pathetic for a supposed generational leap. PS6 will be a PS5 Pro with slightly higher base res (basically unnoticable due to PSSR 2.1) and/or boosting frame rate from the 40's to 60--with some measure of path tracing on top (though likely at significantly reduced quality Vs. PC implementations).

Sigh... you are really latching onto stereotypical tropes and not even trying to understand the facts or tech.

In the past, dual issue was so underwhelming for a number of reasons, one of which was not being baked into consoles and requiring very specific scenarios for it to work in AMD hardware vs something that just works like it does on Nvidia hardware. And even when it did work how it went about using resources further hampered its efficiency. All of that has been addressed now, and it being inside a console, would pretty much guarantee universal support and use. Mind you, this is something that Nvidia GPUs have been doing since ampere, with RDNA5/PS6, the improvements made in its design will literally nearly double performance.

This is an ML moment, AMD GPUs had suffered when it came to upscaling simply because they didnt have the actual hardware to do ML upscaling. Now they do, this is no different than dual issue.

And you also seem to be doing that thing where you are comparing CU count and raster performance like its some apples to apples thing across generations, thats why I actually said you don't know what you are talking about cause anyone would tell you thats a crazy thing to do. And this thing about a pro with slightly higher base rez or higher framerates? Tells me you are completely not reading the room on where development is going to.

But most importantly, its your focus on the most irrelevant part of all this. Raster. Raster peaked in the PS4 gen. What will make the PS6 stand out from curent gen, isnt its raw raster performance, its literally everything else. Its RT performance, and if 12x RT compared to a PS5 isn't a generational leap, I don't know what is. Its AI hardware, and improved RT hardware and scheduling, which doesnt just mean it can do all sorts of stuff the currrent gen machines just can't do, but that the things they do share in common have dedicated hardware to run them as opposed to sharing resources. Eg. On the PS5/pro, the GPU literally has to share its CU between rendering and calculating ray intersections when RT is turned on. That's not the case anymore with the PS6... can you start to see how that ties into how the hardware is utilized and why its silly comparing hardware across generations?

 

[Beechos]

Yeah if the next gen systems can do anything close to that dlss5 stuff.

 

[amigastar]

These graphics on a PS6 would be pretty nifty. Anyone remember that demo?

 

[Haint]

Sigh... you are really latching onto stereotypical tropes and not even trying to understand the facts or tech.

In the past, dual issue was so underwhelming for a number of reasons, one of which was not being baked into consoles and requiring very specific scenarios for it to work in AMD hardware vs something that just works like it does on Nvidia hardware. And even when it did work how it went about using resources further hampered its efficiency. All of that has been addressed now, and it being inside a console, would pretty much guarantee universal support and use. Mind you, this is something that Nvidia GPUs have been doing since ampere, with RDNA5/PS6, the improvements made in its design will literally nearly double performance.

This is an ML moment, AMD GPUs had suffered when it came to upscaling simply because they didnt have the actual hardware to do ML upscaling. Now they do, this is no different than dual issue.

And you also seem to be doing that thing where you are comparing CU count and raster performance like its some apples to apples thing across generations, thats why I actually said you don't know what you are talking about cause anyone would tell you thats a crazy thing to do. And this thing about a pro with slightly higher base rez or higher framerates? Tells me you are completely not reading the room on where development is going to.

But most importantly, its your focus on the most irrelevant part of all this. Raster. Raster peaked in the PS4 gen. What will make the PS6 stand out from curent gen, isnt its raw raster performance, its literally everything else. Its RT performance, and if 12x RT compared to a PS5 isn't a generational leap, I don't know what is. Its AI hardware, and improved RT hardware and scheduling, which doesnt just mean it can do all sorts of stuff the currrent gen machines just can't do, but that the things they do share in common have dedicated hardware to run them as opposed to sharing resources. Eg. On the PS5/pro, the GPU literally has to share its CU between rendering and calculating ray intersections when RT is turned on. That's not the case anymore with the PS6... can you start to see how that ties into how the hardware is utilized and why its silly comparing hardware across generations?

All of PS5 Pro's modest raster and significant RT advantage is being used on PSSR and slightly improving base res/frame rates. All of PS6's modest raster and significant RT advantage (over Pro) will be used on Path tracing and slightly improving base res/frame rates. Path tracing will gobble up the entire 12x RT improvement and demand another 12x on top of it. There is quite literally nothing left to dramatically increase asset quality or run crazy AI lighting filters like DLSS 5. This is without even touching on the galaxy sized elephant in the room that is the Playstation Portable, which will be the "lead console" and target for the vast majority of games.

 

[Ironman_Bad]

There is no longer any such thing for consoles. At best you are going to get last gen high end PC graphics. We'll never see another "next gen" console like back in the day because they're basically mid range PCs now.

What even is pc graphics lol the last big pc exclusive i remember is is crysis?? Everything else is console games with a few bells and whistles...im sure one of sonys studios will cook up something special at launch on ps6 demon souls looked and still looks next gen as fuq

 

[CrustyBritches]

Look at a 5070 Ti or 5080 in RE9 or CD. That's what it will be.

Hopefully we'll get a lot more 120Hz modes. 40fps/120Hz for PT+RR, unlocked 120fps with VRR, 60fps FG to 120fps, etc.

Not a fan of the instagram filter shit, but I'm sure that will show up at some point.

 

[bitbydeath]

There is no longer any such thing for consoles. At best you are going to get last gen high end PC graphics. We'll never see another "next gen" console like back in the day because they're basically mid range PCs now.

This gets said every gen.
We had a VFX guy who thought graphics would look no better than Horizon Zero Dawn on PC.

 

[ReasonBeing]

The differences between PS5 Pro, PS6 and the Microsoft PC Box will be visible only in zoomed in Digital Foundry videos.

The thread is referring to comparisons between this gen and the PS6/Xbox PC, not between the next gen systems themselves.

 

[riko]

I've had a 4090 for 3.5 years, if PS6 is another year or two, and slower than what is in my PC today... it certainly wont feel very next gen.

 

[Bitstream]

I've had a 4090 for 3.5 years, if PS6 is another year or two, and slower than what is in my PC today... it certainly wont feel very next gen.

For the most part, anyone with a 4090 or 5090 is running the most up rezzed and high fidelity version of the current console gen games. With next gen consoles aiming to be in the 5070 range, they'll be able to push everything that much harder, and deliver worlds that are that much more convincing. Thus when you play those games on the 4090 with higher res and graphics, it will still feel like a new gen.

 

[Bonfires Down]

The next gen has a few significant advantages over current gen (at least when comparing base consoles).

• There was an almost universal shift to 60 fps support this gen which ate up a lot of the gains. If you run current gen games at 30 fps instead then the visual bump is more significant.
• Hardware based image reconstruction (DLSS, FSR, PSSR)
• Compentent ray tracing hardware. Current gen RT hardware is as basic as it gets.

More advanced FSR/PSSR is the most important to me. Blurry artifacted upscaling be gone.

But if you're expecting a next generation shock to the system like in the 90s or even 00s then forget it. That's not going to happen and that's before even taking the slow gradual cross-gen period into account.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I've had a 4090 for 3.5 years, if PS6 is another year or two, and slower than what is in my PC today... it certainly wont feel very next gen.

I am beginning to feel that people have a very weird understanding of how these things work.

But here goes... your 4090, is a 40TF GPU... and has about 12x - 15x the RT perforamce of a PS5. And thats not even taking into account ML hardware that it has that the PS5 doesn't have.

Now why is that relevant? Because regardless of how much better your 4090 was, or a 5090 is today... when developers make games, the majority of them, are making games for the PS5. You can run it at a higher rez, higher framerate, throw in dlss and or Fg, replace HRT with PT, but its still a game designed for hardware that is like 6-10x weaker than what you have.

When the PS6 comes along, then you will see games being made that will actually do your GPU some justice. That's a good thing.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

It's going to at least do Pathtracing like the 5070ti/5080.

 

[Jesb]

A better nextgen feature would be for games not to take 5-10 years to make.

 

[genesisblock]

After the announcement of DLSS5, the era of "next-gen" graphics is pointless. It's now Gen-AI filter tailored to your preference. Why even bother with polygons, just put a PS1 model and the slop will do the rest.

 

[CobraAB]

Moderate improvement in graphics and same old gameplay.

 

[Bitstream]

I am beginning to feel that people have a very weird understanding of how these things work.

But here goes... your 4090, is a 40TF GPU... and has about 12x - 15x the RT perforamce of a PS5. And thats not even taking into account ML hardware that it has that the PS5 doesn't have.

Now why is that relevant? Because regardless of how much better your 4090 was, or a 5090 is today... when developers make games, the majority of them, are making games for the PS5. You can run it at a higher rez, higher framerate, throw in dlss and or Fg, replace HRT with PT, but its still a game designed for hardware that is like 6-10x weaker than what you have.

When the PS6 comes along, then you will see games being made that will actually do your GPU some justice. That's a good thing.

Hahaha this is exactly what I said ^^^

 

[MagnetoWasRight]

I started out on NES. The SNES truly offered next gen graphics.

 

[Quasicat]

PS4 to PS5 was impressive because of the ssd over the mechanical hard drive. Graphically, I really don't see much difference between them. I still have my Xbox One S hooked up and it runs really well since I have an ssd attached to it. I don't see much difference.

 

[bender]

Cross generation isn't going away, in fact we'll probably still see support for the PS4 for the first few years of PS6, and like others have mentioned, hardware gains have slowed down.

 

[ToneyJ]

If this gen isn't "next-gen" for you the next one won't be either. So, voted no.

pretty much this. I don't see why games would magically get better looking when most devs arent even matching what Naughty Dog was doing on PS4 hardware.

 

[Danjin44]

I don't care for "next gen" graphics, I want appealing artstyle and fun gameplay.

 

[semiconscious]

sorta depends on whether the games themselves finally offer true next-gen graphics, right? i mean, what's a next-gen console without next-gen games?...

 

[bender]

I don't care for "next gen" graphics, I want appealing artstyle and fun gameplay.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

I'm just looking forward to path tracing, frame gen, and better IQ like we get on PC already. That alone would be a meaningful next gen console leap for me. These features alone will bring console gaming to a new level and raise the graphics floor across all games.

 

[Knightime_X]

If they use ai tech then absolutely.
Render everything without ai? Absolutely tf not.
Simple as that.

 

[viveks86]

Looking at all the research progress with (actual) neural rendering and path tracing, I expect PS5 to PS6 jump to be greater than PS4 to PS5 after few years after launch. And since cross gen will last longer, the difference will be easy to see as well. And no, it's certainly not because of the modest boost to rasterization performance. It's everything else.

 

[ergem]

30gb RAM will help a bit.

 

[ergem]

When the PS6 comes along, then you will see games being made that will actually do your GPU some justice. That's a good thing.

Except he will now be ram-limited. Better buy a new gpu.

 

[xanaum]

We're probably not getting a true next-gen Xbox anymore. What it'll be capable of, we already kinda know from today's PCs.

PlayStation, on the other hand, I think will see a bigger leap than PS4 to PS5, mainly because of new tech. Stuff like ray tracing, which was just getting started, could be way more advanced, rumors say something like 16x better. And then there's PSSR, which already impressed on PS5 Pro, so imagine what it'll be like on PS6.

Honestly, I think we're gonna be way more impressed by next-gen games than we were this gen. What we've seen with PS5 Pro and RE Requiem is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what's coming.

 

[Fess]

There is no longer any such thing for consoles. At best you are going to get last gen high end PC graphics. We'll never see another "next gen" console like back in the day because they're basically mid range PCs now.

This is it. Nothing more to add.

 

[fersnake]

look what a 5090 can offer, the same game with some shiny ai stuff on it.

 

[Bigfroth]

Games like the Jumping Burrito will look so real with DLSS 5

 

[Gaiff]

Except he will now be ram-limited. Better buy a new gpu.

24GB will be VRAM-limited? Sure.

 

[hinch7]

AMD hardware finally capable of PT, with tech like neural textures and with good upscaling plus frame gen on a base platform, yes. First party games should look insane at least.

 

[Radical_3d]

Next gen graphics was Uncharted 4. Everything since it's been more framerate and "but that light right there shouldn't be like that".

 

[Jam Dingo]

We're probably not getting a true next-gen Xbox anymore. What it'll be capable of, we already kinda know from today's PCs.

PlayStation, on the other hand, I think will see a bigger leap than PS4 to PS5, mainly because of new tech. Stuff like ray tracing, which was just getting started, could be way more advanced, rumors say something like 16x better. And then there's PSSR, which already impressed on PS5 Pro, so imagine what it'll be like on PS6.

Honestly, I think we're gonna be way more impressed by next-gen games than we were this gen. What we've seen with PS5 Pro and RE Requiem is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what's coming.

I think if you look at current path tracing, plus ray reconstruction, then the difference in lighting is going to be profound. We're talking about almost every game being built from the ground up with it in mind, not just some bolted on feature like current games.

ML upscaling will finally make 60fps games look attractive pretty much regardless of internal resolution. Frame gen will make those games FEEL more or less like 120fps, which is really cool.

SSDs were the big upgrade this gen but they're only really just starting to be used as a baseline, so the real benefits of that will kind of feel like a next gen advance too. I think a lot of games coming in these next two years will really blow people away because of that lag.

And then you've got a very underrated raster upgrade of ~3x on top - underrated because there's now no need for any resolution increase. So that aligns with the raster increase of the past 2 gens once pixel increases are accounted for. So there's absolutely no reason it shouldn't be a significant generational leap.

 

[NahaNago]

It should. A lot of the graphical push this gen got limited due to the jump in resolution, 60 fps, and ray tracing. Since that will be the norm next gen then they could probably go hard on the next gen graphics instead of the resolution and fps. At the same time though I don't think the graphics will improve massively but will be more of a refinement of this gen.

 

[Darius87]

Who cares. PC will be offering them before those toys do.

exactly, like gta6, take that console peasants.

 

[Darius87]

For the most part, anyone with a 4090 or 5090 is running the most up rezzed and high fidelity version of the current console gen games. With next gen consoles aiming to be in the 5070 range, they'll be able to push everything that much harder, and deliver worlds that are that much more convincing. Thus when you play those games on the 4090 with higher res and graphics, it will still feel like a new gen.

for some weird reason these people don't understand that same console spec != pc spec and always current gen to next gen talks same nonsense.

 

[mrBarrelNut]

We're not going to get the graphical jumps we used to get. The Achilles heel of this Gen was cross gen games.

You can, with DLSS 5 like neural rendering techniques. Even for cross gen games.

 

[PeteBull]

I've had a 4090 for 3.5 years, if PS6 is another year or two, and slower than what is in my PC today... it certainly wont feel very next gen.

Even xbox magnus thats visibly stronger from ps6(and much more expensive) will be weaker from ur old trusty 4090, nvidia had crazy lead over amd in 2022 in both performance and featureset, amd(and intel) spinning their wheels all this time, marketshare shows that.
Maybe by holidays 2027/2028 it wont be as bad but who really knows, we gotta see amds rdna5 and nvidias 6000 series of cards to draw conclusions here.
Remember ur rtx 4090 has 450W powerdraw alone (build on 5nm manufacturing node) while ps6 will be on 3nm(so not crazy big progress) and 160W powerdraw.

Many of us didnt realise(myself included) but back then 1600$ 4090 was actually pure bargain, hell even at 2000$ it wouldnt be considered bad price at all as market proved it.

 

[Represent.]

Absolutely yes. It will rely less on raw power and more on Ai.

In fact we will see the biggest leap of our adult lives. Look at DLSS5 already.

 

[cireza]

We got true next gen graphics with the Dreamcast. Nothing will ever top that insane jump.

 

[Jam Dingo]

for some weird reason these people don't understand that same console spec != pc spec and always current gen to next gen talks same nonsense.

Yeah... I remember some PC guys telling us that the Horizon sequel for PS5 would look no better than Horizon 1 maxed out on a PC.

In reality the sequel was cross gen but still looks way better than not just the original Horizon maxed out on PC, but the remastered version on PS5 Pro.

Developers actually targeting and coding specifically for some hardware will always blow away just higher settings brute forced by some massive GPU.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

All of PS5 Pro's modest raster and significant RT advantage is being used on PSSR and slightly improving base res/frame rates. All of PS6's modest raster and significant RT advantage (over Pro) will be used on Path tracing and slightly improving base res/frame rates. Path tracing will gobble up the entire 12x RT improvement and demand another 12x on top of it. There is quite literally nothing left to dramatically increase asset quality or run crazy AI lighting filters like DLSS 5. This is without even touching on the galaxy sized elephant in the room that is the Playstation Portable, which will be the "lead console" and target for the vast majority of games.

This is tunnel vision at its finest. You are just mixing stuff up all tomake a point that doesn't need making.

But indulge me... on one box, you have 50 general-purpose CUs. These CUs have to share resources for shaders, calculate RT intersections, do AI upscaling, and process textures.

On another box, you have 50 specialized CUs that process textures and has double the throughput for shaders, has specialized radiance cores that manage BVH and calculate intersections, has specialized neaural arrays that handle all the AI stuff, and have generalized compression for everything (not just textures).

But to you... These two boxes are pretty much the same. Ok then.

 

[The_Mike]

Consoles are always technically behind when they are getting released because it takes time to mass produce hardware on that scale.
Also, there is just so much you can do technically when you also have to take into account that console players do t want to spend too much on hardware.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Yeah... I remember some PC guys telling us that the Horizon sequel for PS5 would look no better than Horizon 1 maxed out on a PC.

In reality the sequel was cross gen but still looks way better than not just the original Horizon maxed out on PC, but the remastered version on PS5 Pro.

Developers actually targeting and coding specifically for some hardware will always blow away just higher settings brute forced by some massive GPU.

Its just tunnel vision.

When developers start making games to take advantage of a 30GB PS6, just wait and see what happens to everyone with a 16GB PC GPU. Its like they don't understand (or can't accept) that devs make games with consoles in mind, and its such a simple concept its crazy to me, when consoles have power equivalent to whatever PC, then that PC will at best perform slightly worse than said console, the entire floor rises, and their top of the line hardware sudden;y starts performing significantly poorer, and then they now need to go get a new GPU that is x times more powerful than the consoles again to get the kinda performance delta they have been accustomed to.

Rinse and repeat. And all the while this is happening, they conveniently forget how much more expensive their setup is compared to a console.

Consoles are always technically behind when they are getting released because it takes time to mass produce hardware on that scale.
Also, there is just so much you can do technically when you also have to take into account that console players do t want to spend too much on hardware.

Exactly, this is why I find all the console PC comparisons ridiculous. While loosely similar in purpose, they have two completely different design directions. I mean, we are talking about an industry where someone can spend 5x what it costs to buy a whole PS5 onone GPU, or spend as much as a PS5 to buy one motherboard, or even a CPU, or RAM.... but somehow, see it fit to compare them. Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

To be honest, I see it as a dead giveaway of some gross insecurity or desperate need for validation. It's like me owning a Lambo but only going to drag races against unmodified Priuses.

 

[RafterXL]

Yet all the great looking games are designed with console specs in mind and the best graphical examples of each cycle are still console designed games.

Bu-bu-but 4090 cards... Please guys, once nobody can't see a damn difference without specialized videos with x4 zooms it doesn't matter, nor does it matter some people say if they don't play 200fps they feel bad and head hurts... we are talking mass market, not a mental health institution.

No they aren't. Cyberpunk, Resident Evil, Alan Wake, Silent Hill are all vastly better looking on a high end PC. Face it, consoles are mid range computers now and don't push the envelope anymore like they used to. Sure, developers design games with consoles in mind, because they'd be stupid not to, but then they turn around and add a bunch of graphical features that would make your console explode.

If cope were a forum post, it would be yours.