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[x3r0123]

while on paper, SD looks like a good counter to AM. It actually isnt. You have to consider that
a. am is never alone unless he's farming
b. he has bkb/manta
c. even if you manage to disrupt him. The rest of the team will be there and makes sure he lives
d. if am is in the middle of a crowd, soul catcher will pick a random target

like art mentioned, those heroes will counter am nicely

 

[Swag]

Also, someone put together a really nice GUI for Recommended Item Customization.

I can finally get rid of that awful Carry VS build Valve made

 

[Haly]

I just copypasta'd "WARDS" for my custom recommended VS build.

 

[x3r0123]

heh, i manually edited the builds a while ago.
vs has smoke/dust/wards/chicken as core items
that editor comes in handy though

 

[kazabi]

while on paper, SD looks like a good counter to AM. It actually isnt. You have to consider that
a. am is never alone unless he's farming
b. he has bkb/manta
c. even if you manage to disrupt him. The rest of the team will be there and makes sure he lives
d. if am is in the middle of a crowd, soul catcher will pick a random target

like art mentioned, those heroes will counter am nicely

I still see him getting banned by teams that wants to pick AM, but I don't know, it might as well be because he's a really strong hero overall. But he's still one of my favourite heroes, for countering AM or just going wild killing everyone.

 

[x3r0123]

I still see him getting banned by teams that wants to pick AM, but I don't know, it might as well be because he's a really strong hero overall. But he's still one of my favourite heroes, for countering AM or just going wild killing everyone.

SD is a good hero overall, not denying that. It just that the options available to counter an am is alot higher in dota1 than dota2 but SD is not one of them

 

[ksan]

SD is a good hero overall, not denying that. It just that the options available to counter an am is alot higher in dota1 than dota2

in dota 2 you can counter all AMs by just shitting on them because they are bad anyway (except me)

 

[x3r0123]

muahaha, putting dr as a core item for all the heroes

in dota 2 you can counter all AMs by just shitting on them because they are bad anyway (except me)

lol am is such a lame pick in pubs. I laugh at most am pub pickers because they cant play him properly

 

[Haly]

Hey swag, once you're done customizing all your builds, upload it so I can mooch.

 

[ksan]

lol am is such a lame pick in pubs. I laugh at most am pub pickers because they cant play him properly

I laugh at them too:

Spoiler

thd was singsing

 

[kazabi]

SD is a good hero overall, not denying that. It just that the options available to counter an am is alot higher in dota1 than dota2

Yes, I do agree with that. I'm not trying to say that SD is the best counter to AM, there are many other heroes that I think do it better. But I don't really like to play most of those. SD is just the hero I like to pick when I want something that I feel is good against AM. I just went on to explain why I thought SD was good against him when artanisix wrote that SD became fairly worthless if you skipped mana burn early on with AM (which I think makes the AM more useless than the SD).

But I decided to go and look at the picks of some dota 1 pro games where I saw that in many games AM would be banned instantly after the other team banned SD. Or that AM was picked up directly after the banning phase when SD was banned. I didn't look at that many replays, so it might as well have been random. Just a fun thing I noticed in the few that I looked at.

 

[x3r0123]

I laugh at them too:

Spoiler

thd was singsing

what! spec is just as bad but lol at dement.

Yes, I do agree with that. I'm not trying to say that SD is the best counter to AM, there are many other heroes that I think do it better. But I don't really like to play most of those. SD is just the hero I like to pick when I want something that I feel is good against AM. I just went on to explain why I thought SD was good against him when artanisix wrote that SD became fairly worthless if you skipped mana burn early on with AM (which I think makes the AM more useless than the SD).

But I decided to go and look at the picks of some dota 1 pro games where I saw that in many games AM would be banned instantly after the other team banned SD. Or that AM was picked up directly after the banning phase when SD was banned. I didn't look at that many replays, so it might as well have been random. Just a fun thing I noticed in the few that I looked at.

am is worthless early and thats true because he has no life early. With spellshield maxed, he can almost tank all the nukes with the help of vanguard. Survivability and farm are his first priority and if he can get some kills then thats a big plus(this is also true for all the hard carries). However, you have babysitters to worry about too. Just because you catch him alone, it doesnt mean support wont be there to keep him alive. Generally, good players would build him differently depending on the situation.

 

[ksan]

what! spec is just as bad but lol at dement.

he also called my team mates being fucking retards when he got ganked sad AM is sad

(edit: oh ye, and iirc they picked both AM and Furion before I picked spectre, at very least AM. I'm sure you wouldn't pick axe or some shit like that if you saw Dement picking AM...

Spoiler

wait, why the fuck am I explaining my reasoning for picking spectre... I always pick lame hard carries

)

 

[x3r0123]

he also called my team mates being fucking retards when he got ganked sad AM is sad

(edit: oh ye, and iirc they picked both AM and Furion before I picked spectre, at very least AM. I'm sure you wouldn't pick axe or some shit like that if you saw Dement picking AM...

Spoiler

wait, why the fuck am I explaining my reasoning for picking spectre... I always pick lame hard carries

)

lol i remember dement playing back in the dota days. Though he wasnt a stellar or top ranking player. He's either trolling or just plain bad now

oh yeah, would like to see you play something else other than hard carries

 

[Gunharp]

Ignore.
Report.
Try to play with GAFfers if there are any online.

Man I can't thank GAFfers enough for the pick up games. A party of five so far with this community has been awesome. Very happy that I found the chat lobby last weekend.

Hell even if I get with a good group through solo queuing or queuing with just one other party member. Players are usually silent the whole match.

Also just a comment about an easy hero to play. My vote is for Death Prophet. I've tried out Lina, Crystal Maiden, WindRunner, Drow, Sniper, ClockWerk, Lich and Alchemist. She is by far the fastest one I got good against the bots with. I guess I should also mention that I've only played as WindRunner, CM and Death Prophet in matches against other players.

 

[Swag]

Hey swag, once you're done customizing all your builds, upload it so I can mooch.

http://www.mediafire.com/?boqnq2wap12o2qy

A little disclaimer, if the hero has a bottle as starting, it means it's a hero I only play if I can mid, it doesn't mean buy a bottle as starting, if your going mid, you have a choice.

1. Healing Salve
2. Tango
3. 3x iron Branches

Leaves you with 304 gold, so you only need to farm 8 creeps for bottle, you can do this within the first 2 minutes.

Or you can go standard

2x 150 stat item, Healing Salve, Tangos, Iron Branches

If your not confident. it's up to you. If it's not a mid hero, then the builds are pretty standard, adjust depending on your farm.

I laugh at them too:

Nice Wehsing / Fogged stomp

 

[ksan]

lol i remember dement playing back in the dota days. Though he wasnt a stellar or top ranking player. He's either trolling or just plain bad now

oh yeah, would like to see you play something else other than hard carries

The irony is that I always played support in Dota 1, and by that I mean over 90% of my games.
However many of the players I play with are HoN guys and I only played Dota 1, and somehow it just fit that I would play carry.
Turns out that I do really well at it, and I think it's quite fun.

Nice Wehsing / Fogged stomp

Thanks, we should do it soon too. I'll try to not lose my ability to play when playing with you next time, lol.

 

[kazabi]

am is worthless early and thats true because he has no life early. With spellshield maxed, he can almost tank all the nukes with the help of vanguard. Survivability and farm are his first priority and if he can get some kills then thats a big plus(this is also true for all the hard carries). However, you have babysitters to worry about too. Just because you catch him alone, it doesnt mean support wont be there to keep him alive. Generally, good players would build him differently depending on the situation.

I guess that you are responding to "(which I think makes the AM more useless than the SD)"? Yes, you don't have to max out mana burn first and there are many times that it would kill you. But in most(?) cases, having atleast one or two ranks in mana burn early is important since it burns so damn much % of the enemies mana pool early on with only a few hits. If you get close and get of 2 hits with rank 2 mana burn, there's 80 mana gone. That's really much for level 3-5 early game.
But this wasn't really the big point of my post.

 

[x3r0123]

The irony is that I always played support in Dota 1, and by that I mean over 90% of my games.
However many of the players I play with are HoN guys and I only played Dota 1, and somehow it just fit that I would play carry.
Turns out that I do really well at it, and I think it's quite fun.


Thanks, we should do it soon too. I'll try to not lose my ability to play when playing with you next time, lol.

hmm i can relate. When i started playing competitively, I was stuck with the support role for most matches. Once i stopped playing competitively, i played various roles. Now, i find that i have to pick a carry because usually whoever picks the carry in pubs just cant farm fast enough. Would love go back to support if we ever play together

I guess that you are responding to "(which I think makes the AM more useless than the SD)"? Yes, you don't have to max out mana burn first and there are many times that it would kill you. But in most(?) cases, having atleast one or two ranks in mana burn early is important since it burns so damn much % of the enemies mana pool early on with only a few hits. If you get close and get of 2 hits with rank 2 mana burn, there's 80 mana gone. That's really much for level 3-5 early game.
But this wasn't really the big point of my post.

ok, then ask yourself this. Assume both am and sd have full mana, why would am blink to sd when he is full aware that disrupt and soul catcher will screw him over on a 1v1 situation early? Sure he can harass you but there is so much he can do early. An am will chill in the background, last hit the creeps and wait for an opportunity. sd can slow his farm but he cant do much once am starts rolling. Also using a courier to bring salves will help am stay longer

 

[HK-47]

Drkirby, Mek should be core on Lich.

 

[Sibylus]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that items like Mekansm or Pipe of Insight shouldn't be central to any one hero. Whoever has the money and can benefit is a solid choice, picking it up early will also provide a big boost in team sustain during fights. If that hero is Windrunner, there's no sense in waiting around for Lich to get the farm when a mek now provides immediate team benefit.

 

[Stahsky]

I rarely see any Morphling action. How does he hold up nowadays? I would like to play him, but I'm still not a hundred percent how he works, or how to build for him.


I play mostly initiators, and tried my first game with Puck last night. He/she is a lot of fun.

 

[kazabi]

ok, then ask yourself this. Assume both am and sd have full mana, why would am blink to sd when he is full aware that disrupt and soul catcher will screw him over on a 1v1 situation early? Sure he can harass you but there is so much he can do early. An am will chill in the background, last hit the creeps and wait for an opportunity. sd can slow his farm but he cant do much once am starts rolling. Also using a courier to bring salves will help am stay longer

Oh, so we are talking about 1v1 in the laning phase now? Ye, SD like most other heroes can't fully shut down AM's farm on the lane in 1v1. Then you might need some hero like sylla or something like that. But with help of gank you can take him down easier. Just use your combo on him when he goes a little too far out on the lane, then he will blink as he comes out of disruption. That's when your teams ganker comes out from the woods and stuns. Or the other way around, you friend stuns -> AM blink -> SD combo

 

[HK-47]

Eh, I'm of the opinion that items like Mekansm or Pipe of Insight shouldn't be central to any one hero. Whoever has the money and can benefit is a solid choice, picking it up early will also provide a big boost in team sustain during fights. If that hero is Windrunner, there's no sense in waiting around for Lich to get the farm when a mek now provides immediate team benefit.

Unless you have a better mek user like Windrunner who can farm it faster, Mek on Lich is as important an item as you can get.

 

[x3r0123]

Oh, so we are talking about 1v1 in the laning phase now? Ye, SD like most other heroes can't fully shut down AM's farm on the lane in 1v1. Then you might need some hero like sylla or something like that. But with help of gank you can take him down easier. Just use your combo on him when he goes a little too far out on the lane, then he will blink as he comes out of disruption. That's when your teams ganker comes out from the woods and stuns. Or the other way around, you friend stuns -> AM blink -> SD combo

if we are talking with the help of other heroes then expect support to come whenever he gets ganked

 

[Sibylus]

Unless you have a better mek user like Windrunner who can farm it faster, Mek on Lich is as important an item as you can get.

I don't disagree that it can be an important item for him, just stressing that it's largely dependent on lineup and circumstance (ie. Lich may reap a lot of assist gold to put away toward a mek, for instance, or he may die frequently enough that his focus may be more on having wards out at all times so that his team can pick better fights). It's a core team item, but who gets it is far less important than having it available as soon as possible.

 

[Kapura]

And wards are far more important than a mek in any case. I'm guilty of sometimes trying to get items instead of buying obs, but it is a habit newer players would do best not to emulate.

 

[Sibylus]

Yeah, if it's a choice between saving some more gold for a Mek or buying more wards, I'll side with wards every time. If they help set up a good gank, teamfight, give a good rune, or save a teammate's life, they've already more than paid for themselves. Build vision and the gold will come.

 

[Conceptor]

http://www.mediafire.com/?boqnq2wap12o2qy

A little disclaimer, if the hero has a bottle as starting, it means it's a hero I only play if I can mid, it doesn't mean buy a bottle as starting, if your going mid, you have a choice.

1. Healing Salve
2. Tango
3. 3x iron Branches

Leaves you with 304 gold, so you only need to farm 8 creeps for bottle, you can do this within the first 2 minutes.

Or you can go standard

2x 150 stat item, Healing Salve, Tangos, Iron Branches

If your not confident. it's up to you. If it's not a mid hero, then the builds are pretty standard, adjust depending on your farm.

I always appreciate when you guys explain the thought processes behind stuff like this. It might seem basic or rudimentary but for someone like myself who doesn't have any substantial mid experience, it helps. Also grabbed, ty. :>

 

[Swag]

I always appreciate when you guys explain the thought processes behind stuff like this. It might seem basic or rudimentary but for someone like myself who doesn't have any substantial mid experience, it helps. Also grabbed, ty. :>

Dont use that one, I made another better, more streamlined one.

Ok so I updated the itembuilds, made them a lot simpler, and removed some of the odd item choices in there.

Guess what hero.

 

[Holden]

cm or lich ;o

 

[agidot]

Ancient Apparition?
Because CM need the dagger and Lich won't need a mana pot.

 

[Davidion]

That's a Zeus item list right there.

 

[Haly]

Every single int hero in the game.

 

[Swag]

CM

That's a Zeus item list right there.

LOL WUT

 

[Davidion]

CM

LOL WUT

Oh come on, it's not THAT outlandish. lol

 

[Procarbine]

Oh come on, it's not THAT outlandish. lol

Yeah it is, zues needs items and shouldn't be warding.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Yeah it is, zues needs items and shouldn't be warding.

What kind of items? I've been playing Zeus lately and I have usually been the person to ward because no one else does most of the time.

I only get as far as void stone > arcane boots > bracer/urn > Eul's Sceptor.

 

[Haly]

Aghanim Refresher hue hue hue.

 

[kneePat]

Guess what hero.

Is it lion? Could and should be so many heroes. If it's VS I'm sad you took away the DPS build. I ALWAYS get a heart on VS, it's dumb not to.

What kind of items? I've been playing Zeus lately and I have usually been the person to ward because no one else does most of the time.

I only get as far as void stone > arcane boots > bracer/urn > Eul's Sceptor.

Why are you stopping at eul's? There's like a billion items you could get that would work on Zues.

 

[Haly]

I ALWAYS get a heart on VS, it's dumb not to.

What is this I don't even.

 

[kneePat]

What is this I don't even.

It's recommended so it must be good, silly.

Spoiler

i was messin

if you still don't get it:

 

[Hylian7]

Dont use that one, I made another better, more streamlined one.

Ok so I updated the itembuilds, made them a lot simpler, and removed some of the odd item choices in there.

Guess what hero.

How do I install these? I'm going to try them out tomorrow.

 

[Haly]

Copy paste the folder to Program Files(x89)/Steam/steamapps/common/dota 2 beta

 

[kneePat]

How do I install these? I'm going to try them out tomorrow.

Last page, drkirby has the link. It's a GUI so pretty simple to use.

 

[Swag]

Ok, if your going to use the Item Pack, just know for starting items, use your own discretion on how to use the left over gold, EVERY HERO will have left over gold, so if you feel like you'll need an additional Iron Branch or Clarity go for it, I left it like that, cause I hate seeing duplicate items.

Is it lion? Could and should be so many heroes. If it's VS I'm sad you took away the DPS build. I ALWAYS get a heart on VS, it's dumb not to.

It's Crystal Maiden

 

[Bento]

Do we know anything about the hero or heroes being released today?

 

[HK-47]

situational with sheepstick and no blink or drum?

 

[HK-47]

Do we know anything about the hero or heroes being released today?

No. Just that its likely someone we already have voice clips, unfinished models or portrait art for.

 

[Swag]

situational with sheepstick and no blink?

If your constantly buying the Core items on CD with CM, your not gonna get a Blink, that ofc if it's necessary, like don't buy Dust if there is no Riki / Brood. Also, I dislike when supports get items like Blink when it's not necessary, really only a few that it's core on, Lion, Lina ( rarely ), and Lesh, I'd rather a CM get something like Force Staff or Mekansm or Pipe before they go for Blink.

Do we know anything about the hero or heroes being released today?

Trasher says it's Ursa, cause he knows the lead hero engineer at Valve or something