AceBandage
Banned
I want more Just Cause than either, myself.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
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I feel like Advance Wars/Batallion Wars is the best franchise to take down that path.
Speaking of, I hope there's a Batallion Wars 3
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I find it interesting when people generalize what Nintendo does. Or what kinds of games they develop. Nintendo is not Disney. Nintendo is not Pixar. Nintendo is an eccentric and creative company with a sense of discipline, tradition, and methodology.
People who think Nintendo makes games for children or that Nintendo has never made story games probably do not delve deeper than the iconic games. Nintendo was one of the original companies making story heavy video games. From Heartbeat Highschool, New Demon Island, Time Twist, to Detective Club. Both Nintendo's internal teams were making very text heavy video games on the Famicom and Super Famicom.
Taking a guy like Yoshio Sakamoto, who wrote scenarios for several spooky, quirky and abstract successful Japanese games like Detective Club, Heartbeat High School and Card Hero. Sakamoto jumps into a highly microscoped and big budget international Metroid game and several things were lost in translation (literally and figuretively). The internet hyperbole jumped in on it and now internet boards are full of witch hunts for a man who previously created countless of genius games. More so than 98% of other game designers.
Nintendo makes Nintendo games. It can be edutainment games for adults like Brain-Age or English Training. It can be social adult craze games like Wii Sports, Tomodachi Collection and Wii Fit. It can be games that appeal to females like Nintendogs, Rhythm Tengoku, and Animal Crossing. It can be popularly received traditional games like Zelda, Metroid, and Star Fox. Or games that just have mass appeal like NSMB and Mario Kart.
Will they ever make an over the top blood, sex, and gore game. Probably not. But that does not parallel them to any other company like Disney.
People who think Nintendo makes games for children or that Nintendo has never made story games probably do not delve deeper than the iconic games. Nintendo was one of the original companies making story heavy video games. From Heartbeat Highschool, New Demon Island, Time Twist, to Detective Club. Both Nintendo's internal teams were making very text heavy video games on the Famicom and Super Famicom.
Taking a guy like Yoshio Sakamoto, who wrote scenarios for several spooky, quirky and abstract successful Japanese games like Detective Club, Heartbeat High School and Card Hero. Sakamoto jumps into a highly microscoped and big budget international Metroid game and several things were lost in translation (literally and figuretively). The internet hyperbole jumped in on it and now internet boards are full of witch hunts for a man who previously created countless of genius games. More so than 98% of other game designers.
Nintendo makes Nintendo games. It can be edutainment games for adults like Brain-Age or English Training. It can be social adult craze games like Wii Sports, Tomodachi Collection and Wii Fit. It can be games that appeal to females like Nintendogs, Rhythm Tengoku, and Animal Crossing. It can be popularly received traditional games like Zelda, Metroid, and Star Fox. Or games that just have mass appeal like NSMB and Mario Kart.
Will they ever make an over the top blood, sex, and gore game. Probably not. But that does not parallel them to any other company like Disney.
Naked Prime
Member
And this is why I want Timesplitters 4
EDIT:
I like where this ia going
This bugs me. Sakamoto has made so many amazing games, yet one mediocre title and you have people claiming he shouldn't be allowed to touch Metroid etc etc.
Nice post.
I still think Nintendo's 2nd party lineup and darker exclusives on Gamecube was one of their biggest misses this generation. Metroid Prime 1/2, Eternal Darkness, F-Zero GX, Twin Snakes, and Resident Evil exclusives really made it a good box for gamers with that type of taste.
On the wii, Metroid Other M, Metroid Prime 3, Red Steel and No More Heroes doesn't quite compare the great exclusive Teen/Mature games of the GCN era.
A diverse lineup helps. Nintendo would really benefit from a top tier developer giving them an exclusive FPS/action game now and then. I'm looking at you Mach Rider: Unchained.
Other M is not a mediocre title. A mediocre Metroid? Maybe, but overall it's still a solid package.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Bingo. I hate how everyone just hates on M:OM.
Sure its not as great as other Metroids, but dammit it was still fun and enjoyable.
Mediocre by comparison to other Metroids. Certainly better than Hunters, and I also like it more than Metroid 2.
AceBandage
Banned
I'd live a new Metroid game with the same engine on the 3DS.
But Other M is all about that fucking baby! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS GAME! You cannot comprehend the genius of Sakamoto!
Refreshment.01
Member
Came across this picture from one of the other WiiU threads:
Watching the dummy unit at E3 it seems the console doesn't feature ports faster than USB 2.0. I think it would be wise for Nintendo to include something like a Sata port or USB 3.0 for massive storage pruposes. Goes without saying how developers benefit a lot when using a hard disk for caching, streaming or having the option to install the games for faster load times.
USB 3.0 would be nice but i don't think they want to eat those licensing costs.
A massive storage solution should be available at launch since it also influences the game developing process.
Watching the dummy unit at E3 it seems the console doesn't feature ports faster than USB 2.0. I think it would be wise for Nintendo to include something like a Sata port or USB 3.0 for massive storage pruposes. Goes without saying how developers benefit a lot when using a hard disk for caching, streaming or having the option to install the games for faster load times.
USB 3.0 would be nice but i don't think they want to eat those licensing costs.
A massive storage solution should be available at launch since it also influences the game developing process.
MrBelmontvedere
Member
well, consider 3DS before the price drop. they launched it at $250. now they sell it for $170 at a "slight loss"
that means they were making 'slightly less' than $80 for every 3DS sold. that, I believe, is "miserly" (which is the word I used, not cheap)
Googles definition is:
Code:
mi·ser·ly/ˈmīzərlē/
Adjective:
Of, relating to, or characteristic of a miser.
(of a quantity) Pitiably small or inadequate.I think "Pitiably small or inadequate" would accurately describe a lot of what Nintendo does. I'll say it once again, I genuinely hope that changes because I like Nintendo games. but I'll personally take a cautiously pessimistic view until it's proven inaccurate.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
Saying Sakamoto shouldn't touch Metroid/etc is sort of like saying Fedor couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag anymore. Sakamoto's biggest triumphs could be behind him, but maybe not, regardless Sakamoto is still a beast of a game designer and I'll gladly play and buy his next game.
And for the record Other M had some great and interesting ideas, I'd love to see be given a shot again on the Wii U.
And for the record Other M had some great and interesting ideas, I'd love to see be given a shot again on the Wii U.
It's not. There's a good chance that the Wii U's disk drive will achieve a faster throughput than USB 2.0, making external HDDs quite useless. HDD-saved patches or DLC could actually slow the game down in that case...
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Do you not think they will reserve some of the flash memory for that reason(similar to how VC games don't boot from SD, but get copied to internal memory & then run)?
Grampa Simpson
Banned
What crack are you smoking? That is an absolutely stupid statement. How in the hell would having USB 2.0 make a hard drive useless if it's capable of going faster?
TheExplodingHead
Banned
DCKing is just saying that USB 2.0 will be slower than the SATA (i.e. throughput) connection on the DVD Drive. Which is true. Ever wonder why the 360 or PS3 HDD's aren't USB? JTAG's that run game ISO's off a USB HDD have slower loading than off the DVD or attachable HDD. The Wii loading faster through USB is neither here nor there in this case.
Refreshment.01
Member
Edit, got the speeds wrong.
Assuming WiiU Disk Drive is 4x that will allow a maximun of 184 Mbit/s, so how can it be slower than streaming from an HD through USB 2.0 for example?
Since USB 3.0 is relative new (2009 i think) maybe its too expensive for them. Sata should be more viable. I think this is something critical for Nintendo to sort out. It can affect development but also i assume they would begin to DD games of larger capacities, like GameCube games. Fucking stupid to overlook this matter in my opinion for no apparent gain.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Is it? Looks like USB 2.0 maximum bandwidth is 60 MB/s. Blu-ray 1x is 4.5 MB/s, so ignoring seek times and whatnot it seems they'd be about even at Blu-ray 15x.DCKing said:
Came across this picture from one of the other WiiU threads:
Watching the dummy unit at E3 it seems the console doesn't feature ports faster than USB 2.0.
I also dont see 4 USB ports.
Maybe Nintendo didnt show off the WiiU box because it wasnt the final design.
Maybe the end result will look a lot different. Like Reggie said, its just a box.
Edit: nvm ( the other two ports are in the front)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo15iruRD9I
eSATA would be cheaper, as the system already has an SATA controller, but no USB3 controller.
This is a very good point.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
Depends on some things, but it's almost a guarantee than a aftermarket USB2.0 HDD will be slightly slower than the maximum speeds of the SATA/SATA2 (which in theory is capable of 1.5Gb-3Gb) DVD drive. Even a Nintendo-made HDD would be slower. In practice external USB2.0 will always be slower, their best bet is eSATA.
Refreshment.01
Member
I put the picture of the back of the unit because if they were to plug any HDD's it will be in the backside.
Minor cosmetic changes maybe, the important aspect of the box for us seems to be fixed, the volume. Also i think in this thread one poster said he saw the dev kit and it was curvy still just like the E3 dummy units. Maybe im wrong about this.
Good deduction wsippel. Will they put an external esata port its the question.
But it doesn't matter i think. An optical drive like a DVD or Blu ray won't max out the sata interface, because of the limitations of the device. The Blu ray at 2x which is the minimun to movie play back just transfers 72 Mbp/s comparead to the peak of 480Mbp/s of the USB 2.0
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
60MB/s is a purely theoretical limit including non-payload traffic. The payload alone (user's data) caps at ~45MB/s, and that's for the exclusive isochronous mode, which, ironically, the USB mass storage protocol does not use. Basically, USB2 has its fair share of rough edges, which is one of the reasons firewire400 - a theoretically slower serial bus, trumps USB2 for external mass storage purposes, among others.
Refreshment.01
Member
TheExplodingHead
Banned
All I was talking about is real-world performance, which is where USB2 will lag behind. It will not be 100% equal or better than the SATA/SATA2 throughput.
Let me put it this way, so we can use a real world field test in a console of similar nature. The Xbox 360. If you have a JTAG 360 that is capable of playing game ISO's/DLC off a external USB HDD (USB2.0) you will clearly see a diminished performance in loading times vs. the stock DVD drive or attachable (SATA) HDD. Now if you would like to present me a case of how and why you see this practice being any different on Wii U, please do. Unless the Wii U's DVD drive is going to be slower than the 360's, or the USB2.0 interface is going to be magically better on Wii U it ain't happening.
Refreshment.01
Member
No, i wasn't implying that. However, i do get what you are saying now. You' ve seen the performance of the drive connected to the USB 2.0 port in a 360 vs the console using the DVD to move the data, and it was slower. Independent of what the theoretical maximum for performance indicates. That's clear.
Has anyone in the media confronted Nintendo in regards to their stance of mass storage solutions?
TheExplodingHead
Banned
I don't think so, and I'm sort of peeved about it because a optional usb2.0 HDD solution is not a good option for developers who are used to utilizing the faster and reliable SATA drives on 360/PS3. It's not a good deal for dev's or customers, really. So I really hope they offer a e-sata port for using HDD's, and offer a Nintendo-made 7200rpm external hard drive.
Thing is, they will probably have to stick to one technology so that devs have their baseline. If games start coming out that allow installs, they would have to optimise their caching based on how fast they can get data off the drive. And will devs offer multiple styles of installs, one for USB 2 and one for some additional connection?
Refreshment.01
Member
Yea, they could put a premiun on the device and make some extra money while at the same time satisfy what's become a necessity to both users and devs. Maybe if they don't want to bother with drive manufacturers they could sale the adapter or shell and put up a list of compatible drives.
If they stick to a USB 2.0 connection, Nintendo might as well not bother with an HDD, at least not for caching or game installs, not enough speed.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Right, I think they'll go with guaranteed performance storage for such purposes. Perhaps two SKUs - one with a modest flash pool, one with an hdd.
Microsoft seems fine letting people use USB2 devices on 360, which you can install entire games and content to, and which also have a lower theoretical output than the 360 HDD. Everything works fine.
If - and even if - they were to put USB3 on the Wii U, they'd have to account for the lowest common denominator when working with their SKUs and such. On 360 and PS3 and OXbox, developes already had to account for HDDs with different speeds, and they deal with this on PC already.
They're not going to be able to guarantee to a developer that the HDD on the port is doing USB3 speeds. People can still plug USB2 devices into USB3 ports for one. But even if a device is USB3, it's speed is not guaranteed. They'll probably just do what MS does and have the console run a minimum speed test when you plug a new device in and it'll go from there.
brochiller
Member
The hardware for USB 3.0 is different from that of USB 2.0. This couldn't be updated with a system update unless that includes somebody coming to your house to change the ports in your system.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I just figured the internal flash memory was going to be their cache for games. External HDD used exclusively for DLC and saves.
USB 2.0 would only be a hindrance if you intend on running your games directly from the HDD.
USB 2.0 would only be a hindrance if you intend on running your games directly from the HDD.
I know the question is along the lines of "how long is a piece of strings" but flash memory speeds of the level that would be in a console would be generally slower than an internal HDD right?
Have Nintendo ever done a dual SKU before though? I thought they were pretty strict on just having one and not confusing the market? Even if they did do it though, they'd have to diallow the external USB 2.0 to be used for caching or else there would be performance variants between people with different setups. This also adds to the complexity and confusion for consumers as to "what to get". SKU 2 with a built in HDD, or just a regular SKU 1 and add your own.
TheExplodingHead
Banned
I personally just think Nintendo needs to suck it up and add a damn internal HDD already. It's the best case scenario for us and dev's. And I'd be willing to pay a heftier price tag for it, rather than see potential games, features and user customization be watered down.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Sorry if old
I like the cut of your jib
TheExplodingHead
Banned
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