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[Spookie]

If every class in the game was hybrid, I would be ok with this, but they're not. It would be unfair to allow them to swap between different roles on the fly, when other classes are regulated to one.

Why?

So I can't go from solo'ing DPS merc to healing merc because some classes like the sniper only have DPS trees? At the moment my respecs have hit 25k~ and that's just from respecing every other day to heal for friends in Flashpoints. Such a fucking ridiculous system.

 

[Morn]

Why?

So I can't go from solo'ing DPS merc to healing merc because some classes like the sniper only have DPS trees? At the moment my respecs have hit 25k~ and that's just from respecing every other day to heal for friends in Flashpoints. Such a fucking ridiculous system.

It's a system stuck in 2004. The MMO genre has evolved past it.

 

[TheYanger]

If every class in the game was hybrid, I would be ok with this, but they're not. It would be unfair to allow them to swap between different roles on the fly, when other classes are regulated to one. I wouldn't mind dual specs being put into the game, but with some limitations applied... not the WoW version.

This standpoint is idiotic and should have disintegrated ages ago. EVERY class has 3 trees, being a hybrid even with dual spec is still punishingif you want to do things like pvp or have utility trees, etc. It's not like you can respec midfight and cover multiple roles, so who cares? It's purely a convenience issue. Everyone is just as capable of rolling a class with multiple roles if they're that jealous of the capability, in fact 75% of the classes in this game are 'hybrids' by that definition. It's outdated and silly.

 

[Dartastic]

Bout to bite the bullet. What server is GAF mainly on?

 

[Spookie]

It's a system stuck in 2004. The MMO genre has evolved past it.

Ah well, it's not a problem if I approach it as KoToR3!


...

 

[The Teachinator]

Does anyone know where to pickup the mouse and keyboard? They look awesome!

 

[falastini]

Why?

So I can't go from solo'ing DPS merc to healing merc because some classes like the sniper only have DPS trees? At the moment my respecs have hit 25k~ and that's just from respecing every other day to heal for friends in Flashpoints. Such a fucking ridiculous system.

Exactly.

If hybrids could swap roles as they pleased, why would anybody roll any of the other classes? Give me a good answer, because i cant think of one.

Blizzard's solution was to implement the "hybrid tax" to ensure the one-role classes had an edge in terms of dps. Bioware has indicated that they are not doing that. So why wouldn't anyone roll anything but the hybrid classes if ppl could just swap roles w/o penalty?

I'm a merc BH btw

 

[Windu]

Bout to bite the bullet. What server is GAF mainly on?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=33420547&postcount=1

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=33420547&postcount=1

Nice way to put it, but people really shouldn't have to explain information listed in the first post.

READING COMPREHENSION PEOPLE!

 

[Izayoi]

The respec system, as it is right now, is completely stupid. I won't be doing any Flashpoints or Operations on a regular basis until it's changed.

 

[Guesong]

Exactly.

If hybrids could swap roles as they pleased, why would anybody roll any of the other classes? Give me a good answer, because i cant think of one.

Blizzard's solution was to implement the "hybrid tax" to ensure the one-role classes had an edge in terms of dps. Bioware has indicated that they are not doing that. So why wouldn't anyone roll anything but the hybrid classes if ppl could just swap roles w/o penalty?

I'm a merc BH btw

Because they enjoy the playstyle of said other classes?

It's stupid to restrict something "just cause QQ". If anything, bring the "non-hybrid" classes up to speed by giving them at least one utility spec no matter what. To be fair I find it totally asinine that they made specs with only DPS ; it's a stupid design decision that only fuels debates like these that shouldn't even exist to begin with, with good designs.

It's a matter of bringing up those nonhybrids, not of bringing down the hybrids. Solve that, and everyone is happy, and noone can bitch about dual spec. No reason why it shouldn't be.

 

[Windu]

if you want a different spec every 5 minutes. make an alt.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

The respec system, as it is right now, is completely stupid. I won't be doing any Flashpoints or Operations on a regular basis until it's changed.

Or you could simply go as whatever spec you're using for leveling? Sheesh.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Good god, Powertechs, and I assume Vanguards as well, are just gigantic trolls in PVP. I am nearly 50 on my PT tank and loving every bit of it. Force leap away? Grapple. Force speed? Jet charge. Oh hey ball carrier, meet this neat fire/acid pit. Carbonize, oil slick, flame sweep (with the debuff). I really feel like I have a tool for every problem that gets tossed my way.

 

[Alex]

Exactly.

If hybrids could swap roles as they pleased, why would anybody roll any of the other classes? Give me a good answer, because i cant think of one.

Blizzard's solution was to implement the "hybrid tax" to ensure the one-role classes had an edge in terms of dps. Bioware has indicated that they are not doing that. So why wouldn't anyone roll anything but the hybrid classes if ppl could just swap roles w/o penalty?

I'm a merc BH btw

Hybrid tax was an abandoned long ago. It was never fully materialized or actually implemented, anyhow, because it was incredibly silly.

I never saw it as a big deal, really, in wow, and here where the only non hybrids are very flashy designs with sniper rifles and dual wielding light sabers I think they'll find their niche amongst dps enthusiasts.

Dual spec needs to be in like now, though, at least they should hack down respec costs until its available. I'm just staying as power tech while leveling and it's no biggie but itd be nice to have that flex room.

 

[BattleMonkey]

they should increase the gamble factor on slicing credits. Right now even when you fail and get back less, your gains always end up being more in the long run. Keep it as is, just increase the chance of not making your money back, make it more of a gamble.

 

[RoninChaos]

Really enjoying it so far. Some things I wish were different, but this game is new so I'll give it some time. Really enjoying my time with the gaf empire.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The first two instanced dungeons on the Sith side have been extraordinarily underwhelming for me. Just a bunch of boring corridors with a few somewhat harder mobs dispersed throughout. The conversations in Black Talon were decently entertaining but Hammer Station had none of that.

I also really dislike how all of the instances launch from the Imperial Fleet. Why don't they put them on the actual planets so you don't have to sit on the damn station twiddling your thumbs while LFG?

 

[falastini]

Because they enjoy the playstyle of said other classes?

It's stupid to restrict something "just cause QQ". If anything, bring the "non-hybrid" classes up to speed by giving them at least one utility spec no matter what. To be fair I find it totally asinine that they made specs with only DPS ; it's a stupid design decision that only fuels debates like these that shouldn't even exist to begin with, with good designs.

It's a matter of bringing up those nonhybrids, not of bringing down the hybrids. Solve that, and everyone is happy, and noone can bitch about dual spec. No reason why it shouldn't be.

Which is why I said dualspec would work great if every class was hybrid, but it currently isn't. I don't know why they decided to leave Marauders and Snipers as the only two classes incapable of filing in a second role. They could have given them something else to compensate, like buffs or cc, but they already spread that evenly throughout all the classes.

"Enjoying" a class is dependent on your class being relevant. If every other class can put out comparable dps, but also switch-up to perform a different role, they won't be "enjoying" their class for very long.

It's not just a QQ issue, it's balance... Imagine your filling out a raid team... all dps and skill levels equal, who would you take?... the hybrids give your team makeup more flexibility without sacrificing damage... this is the kind of disadvantages I'm talking about.

Hybrid tax was an abandoned long ago. It was never fully materialized or actually implemented, anyhow, because it was incredibly silly.

I never saw it as a big deal, really, in wow, and here where the only non hybrids are very flashy designs with sniper rifles and dual wielding light sabers I think they'll find their niche amongst dps enthusiasts.

Dual spec needs to be in like now, though, at least they should hack down respec costs until its available. I'm just staying as power tech while leveling and it's no biggie but itd be nice to have that flex room.

I haven't played WoW in a while, but it was still in at Cata launch. Bliz just did a shit job at balancing a lot of the time.

How much is the max respec in SWTOR anyways? 25k? Does it degrade with time? If the jump in credits accrued at 20, 30, and 40 have told me anything, 25k is going to be nothing at 50.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It's not just a QQ issue, it's balance... Imagine your filling out a raid team... all dps and skill levels equal, who would you take?... the hybrids give your team makeup more flexibility without sacrificing damage... this is the kind of disadvantages I'm talking about.

You can't really make a hybrid in this despite what some think, especially at higher levels. The way the trees are in this you pretty much are forced to assume a single role. If a group wants a dps in tor, they will want a dps build. Hybrids only use is for off tanking or off healing which are not needed with a properly built group.

Actual hybrid builds won't be effective at higher levels until they increase level cap and we get more talent points.

Though I think the pure dps classes should have been given stealth, not the hybrid healer,stealth,dps that they gave consular/inquisitors. Those classes are so popular because they gave them more build options than other classes.

 

[krameriffic]

Exactly.

If hybrids could swap roles as they pleased, why would anybody roll any of the other classes? Give me a good answer, because i cant think of one.

Blizzard's solution was to implement the "hybrid tax" to ensure the one-role classes had an edge in terms of dps. Bioware has indicated that they are not doing that. So why wouldn't anyone roll anything but the hybrid classes if ppl could just swap roles w/o penalty?

I'm a merc BH btw

Except the hybrid tax was a myth. There was never clearly defined advantages to being a mage, hunter, warlock or rogue over paladin, DK, warrior, shaman... in terms of DPS. They were in a constant state of minor balance fluctuation, but hybrids were never meaningfully below the "pures".

The first two instanced dungeons on the Sith side have been extraordinarily underwhelming for me. Just a bunch of boring corridors with a few somewhat harder mobs dispersed throughout. The conversations in Black Talon were decently entertaining but Hammer Station had none of that.

I also really dislike how all of the instances launch from the Imperial Fleet. Why don't they put them on the actual planets so you don't have to sit on the damn station twiddling your thumbs while LFG?

WoW did such an awesome job building up to the Deadmines in particular in vanilla. Ragefire Chasm and Wailing Caverns were sadly not as good, but the Deadmines... it will forever be burned into my memory in spite of how poorly designed it was compared to modern dungeons.

The flashpoints in this are simply not memorable, much like RFC and WC.

 

[falastini]

You can't really make a hybrid in this despite what some think, especially at higher levels. The way the trees are in this you pretty much are forced to assume a single role. If a group wants a dps in tor, they will want a dps build. Hybrids only use is for off tanking or healing which are not needed with a properly built group.

By hybrid, I mean swapping talents to swap roles, using the proposed free Dual-spec some people are asking for... not filling two roles at once.

 

[zlatko]

I'm curious what the opinions of this game are if you were a long time Final Fantasy XI player.

Is it group focused enough? Is it difficult ? Is it rewarding?

 

[nataku]

How much is the max respec in SWTOR anyways? 25k? Does it degrade with time? If the jump in credits accrued at 20, 30, and 40 have told me anything, 25k is going to be nothing at 50.

I wish it was 25k. I could barely afford that.

Max respec is, last I read, just shy of 100,000 credits.

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree it's unfair, but that's Bioware's design issue that they have to fix. I don't think punishing the 12 hybrids in the game just so the 4 pure DPS ACs don't feel left out is very fair, either. I want to play a healer and DPS on my Scoundrel depending on what the group needs, but if I'm forced to choose one because I can't afford a 100k credit respec I'll choose DPS. I find solo leveling as a healer in SWTOR to be a poor experience so far.

 

[Alex]

I haven't played WoW in a while, but it was still in at Cata launch. Bliz just did a shit job at balancing a lot of the time.

No it wasn't.

I'm curious what the opinions of this game are if you were a long time Final Fantasy XI player.

Is it group focused enough? Is it difficult ? Is it rewarding?

It could be better, but there's a lot of good elite quests and mechanics that encourage good duoing/grouping. So to sum it up theres a lot more than the almost anti-grouping sentiment of modern WoW leveling but lot less than the de facto standard of FFXI's always-in-a-group gig. (which I wish we could see more of as an option)

For me a lot of the most fun parts were taking our duo and downing full dungeons and 4x player quests with just using companions in those slots, barely scraping by. That's the kind of stuff I love in an MMO.

 

[Data West]

The different starting zones and being treated different in cutscenes really gives me a Dragon Age: Origins vibe. Scared that I'll want to play every class now

 

[Oni Link 666]

I'm curious what the opinions of this game are if you were a long time Final Fantasy XI player.

Is it group focused enough? Is it difficult ? Is it rewarding?

Well, you're not going to be standing by a rock in Valkun Dunes grinding to level, but there are plenty of group quests and instances.

Questing isn't really hard. You might run into some situations which will require you to use your skills wisely though. Instance bosses will probably try players new to this kind of game. It's not a bunch of tank and spanks.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I'm curious what the opinions of this game are if you were a long time Final Fantasy XI player.

Is it group focused enough? Is it difficult ? Is it rewarding?

I played FFXI for several years and I know how you feel about group content, coming from FFXI, a game which pretty much forces you to group up for just about everything.

I get very similar vibes as I did with WoW, there's really no need to group with anyone up until cap as far as exping goes. Once you hit endgame I assume a group is necessary. However the game definitely encourages you to group up with others to get things done. Every planet has quite a few heroic quests that generally require 2-4 people to complete. It's definitely worth it to do the quests as well, not only do they give you decent exp, but they usually give amazing rewards.

Also if you solo your way to 50, you're missing out on a lot of side content and story in the flashpoints.

Aside from that though the game definitely doesn't superglue yourself with fellow players.

Difficulty eh, it's not bad. My friend (also a FFXI player) and I have been pretty much duoing all heroics/flashpoints and we've definitely hit a wall of difficulty at times, but I really think this comes from duoing group content and I worry that with a group it'd be quite a bit easier. Definitely rewarding though.

We'll have to see how endgame is, I'm nearly 50, so I don't have any experience with ops and hard level flashpoints.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm curious what the opinions of this game are if you were a long time Final Fantasy XI player.

Is it group focused enough? Is it difficult ? Is it rewarding?

This is the most single-player focused subscription MMORPG I've ever played. They ensure that everyone has a companion (a AI controlled party member) to compliment whatever role you choose (damage, tank, healing).

I'm still only level 20, but it's also, by far, the easiest MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of them. I've died only once from fall damage. The two 'flashpoints' (instanced group dungeons) I've done so far with a full group of level appropriate players have been complete and total snore-fests combat-wise. No one comes close to dying, crowd control is completely unnecessary, there is zero downtime, and group communication and coordination are not required in the least.

So far, I can only recommend this game for its story content, which is mostly viewable without ever grouping with anyone.

 

[Anno]

I kinda want to play a Jedi Knight just to have the astromech droid as a companion. That little thing just looks so hilarious and happy. Does anyone get a Jawa as a companion? That'd be nifty too.

 

[CzarTim]

- I'm in Balmorra and there are just way too many quests so I'm getting slightly bored. Level-wise I shouldn't be there anymore and all my class quests there are done, but I'm a completionist so... Yeah I guess I'm ruining it for myself, really.

I have gotten to the point where I will just be doing the class and planet quests and skipping the side ones. Might miss out on a few cool ones, but warzone leveling is more fun and I'm already five levels over where I should be.

 

[Alex]

I kinda want to play a Jedi Knight just to have the astromech droid as a companion. That little thing just looks so hilarious and happy. Does anyone get a Jawa as a companion? That'd be nifty too.

Bounty Hunter:

- I'm in Balmorra and there are just way too many quests so I'm getting slightly bored. Level-wise I shouldn't be there anymore and all my class quests there are done, but I'm a completionist so... Yeah I guess I'm ruining it for myself, really.

Bail out of it, by the time I got off of Kass as a BH I was like 18 or 19 and Balmorra wanted 15-20 I believe, so all I did there was my class quests then I headed right to Nar Shadda. I like to be on the curve, not ahead of it. I'm a little annoyed that it's easy to go ahead of it if you do bonuses but at least you can easily correct at least.

 

[Sigfodr]

Edit: Beaten

 

[Milly79]

I kinda want to play a Jedi Knight just to have the astromech droid as a companion. That little thing just looks so hilarious and happy. Does anyone get a Jawa as a companion? That'd be nifty too.

BH gets a jawa I believe.

Beaten.

 

[BattleMonkey]

This is the most single-player focused subscription MMORPG I've ever played. They ensure that everyone has a companion (a AI controlled party member) to compliment whatever role you choose (damage, tank, healing).

I'm still only level 20, but it's also, by far, the easiest MMORPG I've ever played, and I've played a lot of them. I've died only once from fall damage. The two 'flashpoints' (instanced group dungeons) I've done so far with a full group of level appropriate players have been complete and total snore-fests combat-wise. No one comes close to dying, crowd control is completely unnecessary, there is zero downtime, and group communication and coordination are not required in the least.

So far, I can only recommend this game for its story content, which is mostly viewable without ever grouping with anyone.

First flash point is easy, they continually get harder as you go along. Crowd control is vital though, even with two over leveled players on hammer station we had a wipe due to improper crow controlling and adds management.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

First flash point is easy, they continually get harder as you go along. Crowd control is vital though, even with two over leveled players on hammer station we had a wipe due to improper crow controlling and adds management.

Really? Are there hard modes that I'm missing out on or something? I've only done these instances with level-appropriate 4-player groups and most people never drop below half health even without crowd control.

I'm always the healer, but I don't think I'm particularly better than most people.

 

[kai3345]

Getting this with a best buy giftcard I got for xmas, two questions:

Any consensus on the best server?

Which class has the most interesting storyline?

 

[cackhyena]

Getting this with a best buy giftcard I got for xmas, two questions:

Any consensus on the best server?

Which class has the most interesting storyline?

I'm actually in the same boat. Sith Assassin was what I was looking at but have no clue about what story is good and what isn't.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I'm actually in the same boat. Sith Assassin was what I was looking at but have no clue about what story is good and what isn't.

I'm playing a Sith Sorcerer, but we share the Inquisitor class, and I think the stories are exactly the same.

It's been pretty interesting so far, but I kind of wish I chose an Imperial Agent after hearing how cool their story is.

 

[Alex]

Game shoots up in difficulty pretty good as you go further, both for dungeons and elite quests, it was a big leap after the stuff on Kass and the first flash point (which I don't believe even suggests a full group), though.

I havent done anything with 4 players though, I'd rather just have us use the companions for slots 3 and 4 and keep on keepin' on as co-op until it becomes impossible.

Think these are all supposed to have heroic modes, but that's at cap of course.

Which class has the most interesting storyline?

Everyone is going to tell you Agent, and they will all be correct. Has a bit if a slow start but after it ramps up it's probably the most interesting fare in a Bioware game since the old days, and I mean Infinity Engine days, KOTOR's Jedi stuff didnt do much for me as I'm not into Star Wars mythos normally. Agent, however is completely rad and should be revisited as a full darn game in the future.

It's just sleek and cool with better characters and twists and the spy setting makes better use of the light/dark dialogue than the rest, IMO.

Bounty Hunter is also very nice, and I appreciate how it literally plays to it's namesake. It makes for fun little episodic bits.

 

[Data West]

Getting this with a best buy giftcard I got for xmas, two questions:

Any consensus on the best server?

Which class has the most interesting storyline?

I liked the Sith Warrior and Trooper's storylines a lot. Also, the Agent's.

 

[Cystm]

I kinda want to play a Jedi Knight just to have the astromech droid as a companion. That little thing just looks so hilarious and happy. Does anyone get a Jawa as a companion? That'd be nifty too.

Blizz. Bounty Hunter companion.


Edit: Yeah, really should've refreshed there. Beaten by a mile.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Really? Are there hard modes that I'm missing out on or something? I've only done these instances with level-appropriate 4-player groups and most people never drop below half health even without crowd control.

I'm always the healer, but I don't think I'm particularly better than most people.

The hard modes are for end game running from what I recall. The first fp is super easy though, you don't need a healer or even a tank, any four dudes will eat through it and has to since its a lvl 10 fp and no one really develops into their AC role till 15+

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

I wish it was 25k. I could barely afford that.

Max respec is, last I read, just shy of 100,000 credits.

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree it's unfair, but that's Bioware's design issue that they have to fix. I don't think punishing the 12 hybrids in the game just so the 4 pure DPS ACs don't feel left out is very fair, either. I want to play a healer and DPS on my Scoundrel depending on what the group needs, but if I'm forced to choose one because I can't afford a 100k credit respec I'll choose DPS. I find solo leveling as a healer in SWTOR to be a poor experience so far.

Okay, 100k credits. The absolute value of credits isn't settled yet. It's early. People could easily be tossing around that much like it's nothing when the economy matures. I think it just seems brutal in the context of not having dual spec and a leveling player-base with an extremely young economy. WoW most definitely has inflated over time. I went from around 15k gold at most during Wrath to over 100k now in Cataclysm (after spending over 40k at once one point in Cata). Now I'll attribute most of that to better business acumen, and there certainly was an initial expansion boom with highly inflated prices for anything new, but inflation is a major player too. The rewards for dailies increased. Price of repairs increased. Everyone earns somewhere in the ballpark of of 3000g from from quest rewards leveling from 80 to 85. Also a factor would be fewer costly "necessary" gold sinks like epic flying. Old Weather Flying only cost 250g - significantly cheaper than Cold Weather and Epic Flying.

Tl;DR: Let the economy play out - too early to say if it's truly unfair. Dual Spec is confirmed to be incoming anyway, so this should just be a temporary issue. I think I read that the cost resets on a weekly basis too (unconfirmed). The game hasn't even been out a full week yet (besides early access), so if that's true, it could change people's minds.

WoW did such an awesome job building up to the Deadmines in particular in vanilla. Ragefire Chasm and Wailing Caverns were sadly not as good, but the Deadmines... it will forever be burned into my memory in spite of how poorly designed it was compared to modern dungeons.

The flashpoints in this are simply not memorable, much like RFC and WC.

I thought Wailing Caverns was memorable. Not the layout in particular being a maze (though there are some parts that I do remember vividly - the jump and dropping into the water at least). Going through, being introduced to the first armor set, following the druid back through at the end all made lasting impressions. It has a real story, unlike RFC.

 

[Windu]

i just saw a lvl 5 jedi knight in the republic fleet. how did he get to the ship so fast? do those republic fleet transport tickets that you can buy from the social vendor? have lvl requirements?

 

[Emitan]

i just saw a lvl 5 jedi knight in the republic fleet. how did he get to the ship so fast? do those republic fleet transport tickets that you can buy from the social vendor? have lvl requirements?

I think you can just go there. Saw a level 3 guy there trying to see if he could get his AC early. Hehe.

 

[Windu]

I think you can just go there. Saw a level 3 guy there trying to see if he could get his AC early. Hehe.

weird, i thought it required you to do your class mission or whatever to get access to the transport.

 

[Emitan]

weird, i thought it required you to do your class mission or whatever to get access to the transport.

I think the game just heavily implies you can't go but nothing stops you.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Also, do not miss out on the Colcoid War Games FP, it is awesome <3

 

[Moaradin]

Also, do not miss out on the Colcoid War Games FP, it is awesome <3

Is that the one with all the puzzles?